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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLosing Face
Face, idiomatically meaning dignity/prestige, is a fundamental concept in the fields of sociology, sociolinguistics, semantics, politeness theory, psychology, political science, communication, and Face Negotiation Theory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Losing_Face
I think it's fair to say that the U.S. and the Obama administration have lost a considerable amount of "face" in the context of the Snowden leaks and Snowden's merry chase. It's given the opportunity for China to do outrage over spying (and they have done at least as much of that) and for both China and Russia to thumb their noses at the United States.
My guess is the Administration along with quite a few in Congress, is fuming.
I don't know what that means as to actions the U.S. will or won't take concerning Snowden and relationships with China and Russia and perhaps Venezuela, but it would be naive to surmise that it signifies nothing.
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ProSense
(116,464 posts)"I think it's fair to say that the U.S. and the Obama administration have lost a considerable amount of "face" in the context of the Snowden leaks and Snowden's merry chase."
...believes the NSA debate was Greenwald/Snowden's goal is fooling themselves. His goal was to embarrass the U.S. and create an international incident.
He set himself up for prosecution. He has to deal with the consequences.
cali
(114,904 posts)the U.S. has to deal with consequences of the leaks and Snowden's flight.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Which could be unpleasant or might not be much.
Why the hostility to Prosense? She disagreed with you about something?
bemildred
(90,061 posts)More unintended irony:
NSA chief: Snowden 'betrayed trust and confidence'
The head of the National Security Agency said on Sunday he did not know why his agency failed to prevent former NSA contractor Edward Snowden from leaving Hawaii for Hong Kong with a trove of secrets about US surveillance programs.
"It's clearly an individual who's betrayed the trust and confidence we had in him. This is an individual who is not acting, in my opinion, with noble intent," General Keith Alexander told the ABC News This Week programme.
Snowden had been working as a contractor for the NSA in Hawaii when he fled to Hong Kong and he flew to Moscow on Sunday.
Asked if he knew why the NSA did not catch Snowden before he left Hawaii, Alexander said: "No, I don't."
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-06-23/nsa-chief-snowden-betrayed-trust-and-confidence/
ProSense
(116,464 posts)going to blow this out of proportion?
Look at Hong Kong. For all we know this was simply a face saving move, and no has any idea who made the deal.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., accused Russian President Vladimir Putin Sunday of “aiding and abetting” NSA leaker Edward Snowden’s escape from Hong Kong.
“What’s infuriating here is Prime Minister [sic] Putin of Russia aiding and abetting Snowden’s escape,” Schumer said on CNN’s State of the Union Sunday.
“The bottom line is very simple: Allies are supposed to treat each other in decent ways, and Putin always seems almost eager to put a finger in the eye of the United States, whether it is Syria, Iran and now, of course, with Snowden,” he said. “I think it’ll have serious consequences for the United States-Russia relationship.”
According to The South China Morning Post, Snowden was on a plane headed for Moscow, but Russia was not his final destination.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/06/sen-chuck-schumer-accuses-russian-president-vladimir-putin-of-aiding-and-abetting-edward-snowdens-escape/
Do you see that Russia is our "Ally" now? Also note the unintended irony again: "Allies are supposed to treat each other in decent ways".
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)Putin doesn't like to be talked down to like a child. 
bemildred
(90,061 posts)US Senators going off in public making empty threats.
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)and worse it undermines the administration. It is bad enough McCain goes on his crazy trips outside the U.S. Don't need another loose cannon senator.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 23, 2013, 02:44 PM - Edit history (1)
And that's what I see in all this, "we make our own reality", that infinite faith in their ability to brainwash us. It got the USSR, and it will get us if we don't stop this idiocy.
villager
(26,001 posts)..around it (both ecological and economic) will eventually dissolve into other, smaller components.
But of course those self-anointed "masters of the universe" running said empire, and continuously apologizing for it, will continue to sputter and bluster and demand their Imperial Due, right to the end....
Response to bemildred (Reply #8)
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Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)as to their motives. Could you share where you get your inside knowledge into the minds of people like Greenwald and Snowden. I don't know much about Snowden, other than what he himself has said. But I have been reading Greenwald since 2005 and while I have never spoken to him in person, his writings from that period, when he wrote extensively about the crimes of the Bush administration, indicated to me that he was an American who cared deeply about his country. As we all did.
Nothing he has written since has ever indicated that he suddenly became a traitor. He is still focused on the same issues, the Civil Rights granted to the American by the US Constitution.
He was attacked viciously from the Right during the Bush years, and now oddly, considering there has been no change in his views regarding Civil Rights, some, a small % granted, on the Left have joined the Right Wing critics of Greenwald and have been launching criticisms of his 'motives' very rarely addressing the content of what he has to say, as vicious as those on the Right. This has puzzled a lot of Democrats.
So what inside info do you have that you can state with so much assurance that Greenwald has turned into a traitor whose only goal is to embarrass his government?? Was that his only goal when he went after Bush?
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...your belief about Snowden's motives is purely predicated on the FACT that he did, indeed embarrass the U.S. (and therefore, President Obama) and he did, indeed create an international incident.
Oh yeah -- and he did, indeed, spark a fierce debate on NSA spying.
But I forgot, mind reading is another of your many talents.
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)it is a shame as she worked really hard to re-forge the broken relationships the previous administration left with the rest of the world. Back to square one. 
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)
backwoodsbob
(6,001 posts)if you say so.
I always bet the field in these battles 
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
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cali
(114,904 posts)is deluding themselves, and fume is just idiomatic language used as a synonym for angry. In any case, I didn't specifically mention the President. the actions and words coming out of the administration are certainly strongly indicative of anger.
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)he can be happy, sad, gleeful, frustrated, etc. Can we acknowledge since he is human that he is capable of making mistakes as well?
randome
(34,845 posts)He also is not the fascist some want to paint him as.
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[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
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sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)iirrelevant statements? Read the OP again, and try to stick to the topic. The US Government has been slapped in the face by Hong Kong, who refused to arrest Snowden stating that the US had not met with the legal requirements of Hong Kong's Justice system regarding extradition. They went on to say that they would like information on the US spying on them, that their people deserve to be free from that kind of intrusion into their personal affairs.
Russia simply claimed 'we are not tracking him' so bowed out of the whole mess.. South American countries so recently and happily free after decades of oppression by US backed dictators, Pinochet et al, are the most free from Western influence and domination so it is a natural choice for US dissidents to seek asylum there. And that too is indicative of how abhorrent US Foreign Policy has been to the rest of the world.
Don't you think we should be respectful of other sovereign nations rather than invading them and grabbing control of their resources? Do you really think the rest of the world believes we are going the world killing people to 'establish democracy' when our history proves we have and still do the opposite, we support Dictators, such as in Bahrain, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Egypt, Tunisia, Chile, and have little if any record of supporting their democratically elected leaders.
Isn't it time to review these policies which completely contradict our words? The world isn't fooled and have come to fear this country rather than respect it. I want this country to be respected, not feared, and I will never support our support of dictators like Karamov eg. Not sure where you stand on anything, other than you appear in every thread opposing those who support keeping this government on the right track considering how far off it has gone over the past several decades.
JEB
(4,748 posts)Waiting for anything half as cogent coming as a response......
Rise Rebel Resist
(88 posts)more like never
H2O Man
(73,671 posts)the "is that all you got?" stage, when cheap shots that are pathetically and clearly inaccurate are the last resort.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)are not misled by those cheap shots.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,179 posts)It seems that the few one-note authoritarians in here need detailed, and I may say elegant, explanations each time. But they learn nothing of course.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)verbal shit hurling? Your claim was that he does not get angry or fume about stuff like all humans do. That was YOUR claim. Silly shit to say, but to fling garbage when called on it is just so centrist....
randome
(34,845 posts)But I still don't see Obama as one who 'fumes'. He knows the value of calm deliberation, which is why the attacks from both the left and right do not deter him.
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sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Who deterred him from choosing Democrats for his cabinet over Republicans?? Certainly no one here, we would love to have seen what we voted for, a Democratic Cabinet.
And who deterred him from keeping the ban on Offshore Drilling intact, the importance of which was proven only 18 days after he did so? Certainly no one on the Left, we would love to have seen that hard fought for ban still in place, but that didn't deter him, did it?
And who is deterring him from going after Whistle Blowers more diligently than any administration in living memory? Certainly not the Left, we on the Left would prefer to see the exposed crimes investigated but what we want hasn't deterred him, has it?
Should I go on searching to see when the Left has been able to deter this President from doing anything or is that enough to show the FACTS of why democrats are so disappointed? And in what way are the personal traits of politicians important to the American people, if you don't mind explaining?
randome
(34,845 posts)That okay with you?
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sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)was hoping for a President who could not just fume, but who could and would become as angry as necessary where it was warranted, against Republican policies, since you brought it up. This President's administration appears to reserve its anger towards those who elected them.
H2O Man
(73,671 posts)
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)US have not lost face. What a load of crap, geeezzzz
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)if we didn't spend half our time wagging our fingers at other countries about doing the same shit we're always proven to do.
Nothing puts a stink on an issue quite like the reek of hypocrisy.
ymetca
(1,182 posts)JEB
(4,748 posts)That is quite the world wide response. Might have to put the entire world in GITMO.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Going to affect us all.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)other countries will do it for us.
Meantime the American people have to decide if they are willing to live in a surveillance state based on the fake WOT or if they are going to stand up like the 'brave' citizens they claim to be and do whatever it takes to defend the rights they are guaranteed in their Constitution. Other nations have been faced with these decisions in the past, many procrastinated until it was too late. What will the American do? It remains to be seen.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)aren't omnipotent and able to do anything they want to do because they can.
treestar
(82,383 posts)It's one thing to think we have the right to know but another to crow over us "losing face" as a country or whatever that means.
Eddie goes from hero who informed us to person who caused us to look bad - and you're going to celebrate that, too?
