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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSen. Paul To Snowden: Don’t ‘Cozy Up’ To Russian Government
Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY), who has publicly praised NSA leaker Edward Snowden for his actions, warned Snowden Sunday not to cozy up to the Russian or Chinese governments--or any governments that are "perceived still as enemies of ours."
"I do think, for Mr. Snowden, if he cozies up to the Russian government, it will be nothing but bad for his name in history," Paul said on CNN's State of the Union. "If he goes to an independent third country like Iceland and if he refuses to talk to any sort of formal government about this, I think there's a chance that he'll be seen as an advocate of privacy.
Paul said that ultimately history will be the judge of Snowden's legacy, suggesting that he will likely be remembered as a foil to intelligence chief James Clapper, who Paul said lied in front of Congress when he testified that the government was not collecting any personal data on Americans.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/sen-paul-to-snowden-dont-cozy-up-to
LOL!
MjolnirTime
(1,800 posts)Are we really surprised???
cali
(114,904 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)the charges been dropped?
Greenwald Thinks Snowdens Final Destination Is Still Up In The Air
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023073847
cali
(114,904 posts)dream on.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)So you're admitting that the charges haven't been dropped, huh?
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)We're seeing another instance of Republicans Eating Their Own.
BeyondGeography
(39,393 posts)dsc
(52,172 posts)who Paul said lied in front of Congress. Let me help the writer. try who did lie in front of Congress when he testified that the government was not collecting any personal data on Americans. He said they weren't and they were. That is a lie.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)So, NSA has a database with every call I ever made and every email I ever sent or received. And it's just sitting there waiting for them to use if they decide it's warranted.
Are you telling me these records of my communications aren't "personal data?"
I don't like the government's vacuum cleaner approach to my communications.
On a related note, pnwmom, you said in a post on some other thread that this isn't the 1950s. I thought about that later, and you're right. In the 1950s, we were threatened with nuclear annihilation by a bellicose foe with thousands of nuclear weapons aimed at us. Not a band of criminals. The 1950s was an objectively much scarier time.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)You're right that the threat of mutual total destruction was higher in the 50's and 60's. But foreign terrorism on our shores is a greater threat than it was then.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...two brothers could leave a couple of pressure-cooker bombs in the middle of Boston, in spite of the surveillance state we have in place and in spite of having been warned more than once by Russia about the elder of the two.
In other words, it is at least worth asking the question of whether this vast increase in surveillance is really doing the job it was supposedly implemented to do.
Then there is the fact that, at least as of 2011, the Patriot Act has been used much more extensively in the War On (some) Drugs:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/09/12/911-chart-of-the-day/
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)and yet so many claimed to be completely unaware of the collection of telephone meta-data?
No, collecting the meta-data didn't mean that we stopped the bombers from attacking. But once we identified them, we were able to go back and see, through their records, if they had possible helpers. That's the value of collecting the meta-data.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...that supposedly make it necessary to do all this surveillance.
I pointed out that all this surveillance did not stop a rather awful terrorist attack, even with specific warnings about one of the individuals involved, long before the attack took place..
My remarks are not an attempt to blame this administration. I blame the security state, the apparatus as a whole: it has its own inertia, its own internal logic, its own self preservation. It spans administrations, and it continues to grow.
These people love their technology. They love the fact that they can do data analysis, etc. They love the fact that they can have well paid careers, and can be the high priests of complex systems and in charge of super-duper-secret information. And while they are busy pursuing this technological solution, they try to make the information conform to the systems they have created -- and they often overlook real information that comes to them but is not part of a digitized data stream.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)if the bombers were part of a larger group.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...but of course we have no way of knowing that.
My point is, we are paying huge $$$ for our government to to collect huge amounts of information on all of us, all so we can have the illusion of security. The fact that a lot of this money goes to private firms, and that as a result there are tens of thousands of contractors who have top secret clearances, is just an additional poke in the eye to the citizens of the U.S.
The basic disagreement that a lot of us have is between those who believe this system really provides the level of security that our government claims it does, vs. those of us who do not believe it; and between those who trust the government (and its contractors) not to abuse the information that has been collected, vs. those of us who know for a certainty that they will abuse it.
I guess "never the twain shall meet" is where we're at. It's glass half empty / glass half full stuff, showing there is a very fundamental difference in world view between us, that is not amenable to argument.
But argue we will, this is DU!
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)have been prevented already, thanks to this surveillance.
NoPasaran
(17,291 posts)If at some point in the future the actual details of my phonecalls to the local Chinese take-out place should be of value in defending this great nation of ours, frankly that's OK with me.
If this be fascism, make the most of it!
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)"...James Clapper, lied in front of Congress when he testified that the government was not collecting any personal data on Americans. "
When he lied to congress he lied to you. Like many other republicans. If you side with Clapper, you side with liars.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Cha
(297,935 posts)David Corn ✔ @DavidCornDC
This is new: Greenwald goes on MTP, then tweets criticism of Gregory's Qs accusing him of being close to govt. Gregory responds on show.
TheObamaDiary.com @TheObamaDiary
No, no, not a joke - @ggreenwald actually likened Snowden situation to OJ Simpson. Before, it was MLK & Rosa Parks. pic.twitter.com/iQLHHi895P4:33 AM - 23 Jun 2013
GG: "I hope the media excitment over this White Bronco moment sustains and re-focuses on what the US government is doing in the dark"
28 Retweets 3 favorites Reply
BWD @theonlyadult
Hey, at least he's not MLK anymore. Now he's OJ Simpson. Never has such a good laugh in the morning.
http://theobamadiary.com/2013/06/23/rise-and-shine-535/#comments
rofl
dawg
(10,625 posts)Snowden *should* cozy up to the Russian government. Right?
Or do you admit that Rand Paul can be right some of the time?
wandy
(3,539 posts)Rand Paul. Supporter of free journalism!
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500202_162-6995613.html
flamingdem
(39,335 posts)VOTE FOR RAND PAUL!
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)Snowden is a hero.
Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)"Duck and cover".
Morning Dew
(6,539 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)"I'd guess this make you a Paul supporter."
...I was laughing at Paul.
Morning Dew
(6,539 posts)Snowden should cozy up to the Russians?
ProSense
(116,464 posts)Please, so this doesn't turn into your personal interrogation fest!
Morning Dew
(6,539 posts)But stopped clocks and all that. I think I may have agreed with Bush one time - yes I did. Here:
http://www.nasa.gov/missions/solarsystem/bush_vision.html
I'm actually still waiting for the Snowden issue to play out more before calling him a hero or a traitor.
Cha
(297,935 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Cha
(297,935 posts)http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/23/rand-paul-snowden_n_3486455.html
If Rand fucking Paul says it.. it must be true.
Eli Lake @EliLake
MT @adamgoldmanap: People surprised Snowden passing thru Russia? What foreign intel agency wouldn't want to take peak at his computers?
GOPathetic @GOPathetic
So, Matt @Drudge is now rooting for Putin over his own country. Keep it classy. https://twitter.com/drudge/status https://twitter.com/drudge/status/348812517356748800
Now who does that remind me of?
http://theobamadiary.com/2013/06/23/rise-and-shine-535/#comments
thanks ProSense
This whole thing has smelled of Rand Paul, and now he is giving Snowden advice. I think Mr. Snowden may have figured out he has been played and now is trying to get himself a place to hide, no matter what it may cost. If it's found out he has been giving away more secrets for either money or a place to hide, it's just going to get worse for him. If he was convinced to do what he did by someone else for political reasons I sure hope he decides to take them down with him.
Cha
(297,935 posts)that's what cowards do.
Exactly.