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ProSense

(116,464 posts)
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:27 AM Jun 2013

Sen. Paul To Snowden: Don’t ‘Cozy Up’ To Russian Government

Sen. Paul To Snowden: Don’t ‘Cozy Up’ To Russian Government

Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY), who has publicly praised NSA leaker Edward Snowden for his actions, warned Snowden Sunday not to cozy up to the Russian or Chinese governments--or any governments that are "perceived still as enemies of ours."

"I do think, for Mr. Snowden, if he cozies up to the Russian government, it will be nothing but bad for his name in history," Paul said on CNN's State of the Union. "If he goes to an independent third country like Iceland and if he refuses to talk to any sort of formal government about this, I think there's a chance that he'll be seen as an advocate of privacy.

Paul said that ultimately history will be the judge of Snowden's legacy, suggesting that he will likely be remembered as a foil to intelligence chief James Clapper, who Paul said lied in front of Congress when he testified that the government was not collecting any personal data on Americans.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/sen-paul-to-snowden-dont-cozy-up-to

LOL!

38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Sen. Paul To Snowden: Don’t ‘Cozy Up’ To Russian Government (Original Post) ProSense Jun 2013 OP
too late. Edward's coat has turned... MjolnirTime Jun 2013 #1
Snowden Will Be Prosecuted Proclaims ProSense cali Jun 2013 #2
He will be. Have ProSense Jun 2013 #4
Do you think Venezuela will extradite him? bwahahahaha. cali Jun 2013 #8
"Do you think Venezuela will extradite him?" ProSense Jun 2013 #11
He's been charged? Your partner doesn't seem to agree, apparently... cherokeeprogressive Jun 2013 #31
WTF? ProSense Jun 2013 #33
Does Sen. Paul believe Cuba or Venezuela are any better than Russia? baldguy Jun 2013 #3
Rand feeling an onset of electile dysfunction? BeyondGeography Jun 2013 #5
I love the last sentence of your exerpt dsc Jun 2013 #6
Telephone metadata isn't personal data. And personal data requires a warrant. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #16
it's still creepy. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2013 #18
In the 50's a suitcase bomber couldn't have left a nuclear package in the middle of NYC. pnwmom Jun 2013 #22
And yet in 2013... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #24
How is it that so many people blamed the Administration for not stopping the bombing pnwmom Jun 2013 #26
You made a claim about the threats we face now... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #27
No, that is it's limitation. But it could have stopped follow-up attacks, pnwmom Jun 2013 #28
You say it could have stopped follow-up attacks,... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #30
True. But I believe the Obama administration that some attacks pnwmom Jun 2013 #37
Creepy, but you know what? NoPasaran Jun 2013 #29
This is the real story, thanks Pro, RobertEarl Jun 2013 #7
This is really getting to be funny now alcibiades_mystery Jun 2013 #9
You want funny? Cha Jun 2013 #34
So, since Rand Paul is always wrong about everything according to you .. dawg Jun 2013 #10
Rand Paul. Words are cheep. Having a reporters neck stomped on, requires a contractor. wandy Jun 2013 #12
Paulbots breathe a sigh of relief as they learn they can have their cake and eat it too flamingdem Jun 2013 #13
In your face Paul Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #14
Too late Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #15
I'd guess this make you a Paul supporter. Morning Dew Jun 2013 #17
Actually, ProSense Jun 2013 #19
You disagree with him, then? Morning Dew Jun 2013 #20
First, tell me if you agree or disagree with him. ProSense Jun 2013 #21
I am not a Paul supporter or fan. Morning Dew Jun 2013 #23
You have to awfully dense to come up with that conclusion. Cha Jun 2013 #35
Why should anyone listen to Paul? hobbit709 Jun 2013 #25
Snowden's getting advice from his buddy, Rand Paul! Cha Jun 2013 #32
Yep Andy823 Jun 2013 #36
Yeah, Snowden needs a comfy hidey hole.. Cha Jun 2013 #38

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
11. "Do you think Venezuela will extradite him?"
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:37 AM
Jun 2013

So you're admitting that the charges haven't been dropped, huh?

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
3. Does Sen. Paul believe Cuba or Venezuela are any better than Russia?
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:32 AM
Jun 2013

We're seeing another instance of Republicans Eating Their Own.

dsc

(52,172 posts)
6. I love the last sentence of your exerpt
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:35 AM
Jun 2013

who Paul said lied in front of Congress. Let me help the writer. try who did lie in front of Congress when he testified that the government was not collecting any personal data on Americans. He said they weren't and they were. That is a lie.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
18. it's still creepy.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 01:39 PM
Jun 2013

So, NSA has a database with every call I ever made and every email I ever sent or received. And it's just sitting there waiting for them to use if they decide it's warranted.

Are you telling me these records of my communications aren't "personal data?"

I don't like the government's vacuum cleaner approach to my communications.

On a related note, pnwmom, you said in a post on some other thread that this isn't the 1950s. I thought about that later, and you're right. In the 1950s, we were threatened with nuclear annihilation by a bellicose foe with thousands of nuclear weapons aimed at us. Not a band of criminals. The 1950s was an objectively much scarier time.

pnwmom

(109,021 posts)
22. In the 50's a suitcase bomber couldn't have left a nuclear package in the middle of NYC.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 02:21 PM
Jun 2013

You're right that the threat of mutual total destruction was higher in the 50's and 60's. But foreign terrorism on our shores is a greater threat than it was then.

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
24. And yet in 2013...
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 05:28 PM
Jun 2013

...two brothers could leave a couple of pressure-cooker bombs in the middle of Boston, in spite of the surveillance state we have in place and in spite of having been warned more than once by Russia about the elder of the two.

In other words, it is at least worth asking the question of whether this vast increase in surveillance is really doing the job it was supposedly implemented to do.

Then there is the fact that, at least as of 2011, the Patriot Act has been used much more extensively in the War On (some) Drugs:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/09/12/911-chart-of-the-day/

pnwmom

(109,021 posts)
26. How is it that so many people blamed the Administration for not stopping the bombing
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 05:40 PM
Jun 2013

and yet so many claimed to be completely unaware of the collection of telephone meta-data?

No, collecting the meta-data didn't mean that we stopped the bombers from attacking. But once we identified them, we were able to go back and see, through their records, if they had possible helpers. That's the value of collecting the meta-data.

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
27. You made a claim about the threats we face now...
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 06:14 PM
Jun 2013

...that supposedly make it necessary to do all this surveillance.

I pointed out that all this surveillance did not stop a rather awful terrorist attack, even with specific warnings about one of the individuals involved, long before the attack took place..

My remarks are not an attempt to blame this administration. I blame the security state, the apparatus as a whole: it has its own inertia, its own internal logic, its own self preservation. It spans administrations, and it continues to grow.

These people love their technology. They love the fact that they can do data analysis, etc. They love the fact that they can have well paid careers, and can be the high priests of complex systems and in charge of super-duper-secret information. And while they are busy pursuing this technological solution, they try to make the information conform to the systems they have created -- and they often overlook real information that comes to them but is not part of a digitized data stream.

pnwmom

(109,021 posts)
28. No, that is it's limitation. But it could have stopped follow-up attacks,
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 07:03 PM
Jun 2013

if the bombers were part of a larger group.

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
30. You say it could have stopped follow-up attacks,...
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 07:44 PM
Jun 2013

...but of course we have no way of knowing that.

My point is, we are paying huge $$$ for our government to to collect huge amounts of information on all of us, all so we can have the illusion of security. The fact that a lot of this money goes to private firms, and that as a result there are tens of thousands of contractors who have top secret clearances, is just an additional poke in the eye to the citizens of the U.S.

The basic disagreement that a lot of us have is between those who believe this system really provides the level of security that our government claims it does, vs. those of us who do not believe it; and between those who trust the government (and its contractors) not to abuse the information that has been collected, vs. those of us who know for a certainty that they will abuse it.

I guess "never the twain shall meet" is where we're at. It's glass half empty / glass half full stuff, showing there is a very fundamental difference in world view between us, that is not amenable to argument.

But argue we will, this is DU!

pnwmom

(109,021 posts)
37. True. But I believe the Obama administration that some attacks
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 08:30 PM
Jun 2013

have been prevented already, thanks to this surveillance.

NoPasaran

(17,291 posts)
29. Creepy, but you know what?
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 07:11 PM
Jun 2013

If at some point in the future the actual details of my phonecalls to the local Chinese take-out place should be of value in defending this great nation of ours, frankly that's OK with me.

If this be fascism, make the most of it!

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
7. This is the real story, thanks Pro,
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:36 AM
Jun 2013

"...James Clapper, lied in front of Congress when he testified that the government was not collecting any personal data on Americans. "

When he lied to congress he lied to you. Like many other republicans. If you side with Clapper, you side with liars.

Cha

(297,935 posts)
34. You want funny?
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 08:14 PM
Jun 2013
So, Matt @Drudge is now rooting for Putin over his own country. Keep it classy. https://twitter.com/drudge/status https://twitter.com/drudge/status/348812517356748800

David Corn ✔ @DavidCornDC

This is new: Greenwald goes on MTP, then tweets criticism of Gregory's Qs accusing him of being close to govt. Gregory responds on show.

TheObamaDiary.com @TheObamaDiary

No, no, not a joke - @ggreenwald actually likened Snowden situation to OJ Simpson. Before, it was MLK & Rosa Parks. pic.twitter.com/iQLHHi895P4:33 AM - 23 Jun 2013


GG: "I hope the media excitment over this White Bronco moment sustains and re-focuses on what the US government is doing in the dark"

28 Retweets 3 favorites Reply

BWD @theonlyadult

Hey, at least he's not MLK anymore. Now he's OJ Simpson. Never has such a good laugh in the morning.

http://theobamadiary.com/2013/06/23/rise-and-shine-535/#comments

rofl

dawg

(10,625 posts)
10. So, since Rand Paul is always wrong about everything according to you ..
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:37 AM
Jun 2013

Snowden *should* cozy up to the Russian government. Right?

Or do you admit that Rand Paul can be right some of the time?

flamingdem

(39,335 posts)
13. Paulbots breathe a sigh of relief as they learn they can have their cake and eat it too
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 12:40 PM
Jun 2013

VOTE FOR RAND PAUL!

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
21. First, tell me if you agree or disagree with him.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 02:14 PM
Jun 2013

Please, so this doesn't turn into your personal interrogation fest!

Morning Dew

(6,539 posts)
23. I am not a Paul supporter or fan.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 02:25 PM
Jun 2013

But stopped clocks and all that. I think I may have agreed with Bush one time - yes I did. Here:

http://www.nasa.gov/missions/solarsystem/bush_vision.html


I'm actually still waiting for the Snowden issue to play out more before calling him a hero or a traitor.

Cha

(297,935 posts)
32. Snowden's getting advice from his buddy, Rand Paul!
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 07:56 PM
Jun 2013
Paul has been one of a few public officials to praise Snowden for leaking material on the National Security Agency's surveillance operations. And despite warning Snowden not to work with the Russian or Chinese governments, Paul continued on Sunday to argue that history would judge the leaks kindly.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/23/rand-paul-snowden_n_3486455.html

If Rand fucking Paul says it.. it must be true.

Eli Lake @EliLake

MT @adamgoldmanap: People surprised Snowden passing thru Russia? What foreign intel agency wouldn't want to take peak at his computers?

GOPathetic @GOPathetic

So, Matt @Drudge is now rooting for Putin over his own country. Keep it classy. https://twitter.com/drudge/status https://twitter.com/drudge/status/348812517356748800

Now who does that remind me of?

http://theobamadiary.com/2013/06/23/rise-and-shine-535/#comments

thanks ProSense


Andy823

(11,495 posts)
36. Yep
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 08:25 PM
Jun 2013

This whole thing has smelled of Rand Paul, and now he is giving Snowden advice. I think Mr. Snowden may have figured out he has been played and now is trying to get himself a place to hide, no matter what it may cost. If it's found out he has been giving away more secrets for either money or a place to hide, it's just going to get worse for him. If he was convinced to do what he did by someone else for political reasons I sure hope he decides to take them down with him.

Cha

(297,935 posts)
38. Yeah, Snowden needs a comfy hidey hole..
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 09:09 PM
Jun 2013

that's what cowards do.

If he was convinced to do what he did by someone else for political reasons I sure hope he decides to take them down with him.


Exactly.

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