When you privatize national security and no longer vet the staff

[malaise]

then the only thing secure is private interests.

On the other hand if the young techies see serious wrong and expose it, maybe just maybe they are fighting to maintain democracy for themselves and future generations.

Two points from Machiavelli:
1. beware of mercenaries
2. by any means necessary

Any government on this planet stating publicly that only their citizens are entitled to rights has lost the moral battle across the globe.

Obama should have fired everyone involved in Bushco's illegal war and in warrant-less wiretapping.

I want to feel sorry for Nancy Pelosi but impeachment should never have been off the table for war crimes.

[wandy]

1. You sum this up nicely in one sentence...........

Obama should have fired everyone involved in Bushco's illegal war and in warrant-less wiretapping.

Although this may not have been totally possible every effort should have been, should still be made.
Dam near everything brought about by the BFEE is blighted and server only special interests.

A major reason I am tolerant of Obama is some of the Bush actions are not only difficult to rectify but were intended to be difficult to rectify.
Guantánamo is just one of the examples. Exactly what can you do with those people?
That is only one example.

[malaise]

2. Yep he can still do this

Start with shutting down Gitmo and yes I know ReTHUGs have blocked this for ages.
Time to go after the war criminal of a dick and his fellow goons.

[snappyturtle]

3. You've made an excellent point about techies. I look at the young techie, Snowden

as a person who acted out of loyalty to his countrymen rather than to Booz Allen or the NSA. To me, that is a good sign. If the media did its job we wouldn't have to resort to whistle blowing/blowers for information.

I can't even 'want' to feel sorry for Nancy Pelosi. If she had only given us the illusion that she tried to impeach...then I could feel badly for her.

[malaise]

4. Snowden did not hire himself - he didn't privatize the NSA and he did not vet himself

If the message is to facilitate democracy I don't give a shit about the messenger. I honestly don't know his agenda.
Bushco and his goons set up this shit and they should be tried for treason.

The bottom line is that rich old white men are clueless when it comes to the technology to the young techies can expose them at will. For that I am glad.

Obama can still change things. Shut down all the contractors involved in national security.
They only serve their own private interests and their gawd - profit.

[alc]

5. vetting costs money - but there's a solution

I imagine Rove & Co. would be willing to help out and fund the vetting. Or the RNC or DNC, or both of them together.

This technology should not be in place with ANYONE (private or govt) having a central database of communications. There is no set of processes, rules, warrants, staffing that is completely secure. Someone will find a way around any security or processes.

It's even in the NSA's self-interest to help select (rather than elect) certain congressmen, judges and presidents who will provide the least oversight and broadest warrants. I would hope people at the NSA with that kind of power wouldn't misuse the database. But I'm paranoid and expect that the data will be misused. Maybe not in 2014, or 2016 or even in my lifetime. But they are setting up a system that can be used to stop any opposition. Foreign or domestic. Violent (which would be good to stop) or non-violent (even though we may need a 3rd party to step up when the primary parties go too far).

If people accept this system what chances do groups like OWS and the tea parties have in the future? I know surveillance systems have been in place for decades. But the technology is getting better and organize opposition is depending more on technology and our acceptance of snooping seems to be getting laxer (i.e. "it's ok to collect data since they need warrants to look at the data&quot .

[malaise]

6. Did you hear about the billions squandered in Iraq and Afghanistan

What about the money being squandered by the ReTHUG House of Representatives.
There is money for all the private contractors to loot the government but no money to vet national security staff. Oh please!!! They want it this way.

[alc]

9. missed my point - I agree they want it this way

"vetting" is not the issue. "who is vetting" is the issue and we will never be able to trust that and at some point it will fail us.

Yes, your solutions work in that there is plenty of money for vetting. But that's not enough and it never will be.

[malaise]

11. I hear you n/t

[Coyotl]

7. Obama should still fire everyone involved in Bush's illegal war and omni-surveillance.

And DoJ should investigate any and all criminality using RICO

[malaise]

8. I agree 100%

and he needs to do it now.
The real problem across the globe is the alliance of the political class with vested interests.
They all believe in the form of the so called system but have violated all of its content.
Sadly all the emperors are now naked. The truth is there for everyone to see.

[The Link]

10. Why would a guy with so much power weaken himself and those that follow?

What President has ever done that?

[malaise]

12. Because he was attempting to play with the cards served instead of demanding

a new pack of cards. Obama has to remove all of the persons associated with the illegality of the Bush/Cheney administration.

[The Link]

13. Again, what President has ever done that?

The guy is a politician. It is a small club. They watch each others backs and protect the power for the next guy. Why does anyone think Obama is different? What has he done to show you he is any different than those that have come before him?

[malaise]

14. Well for starters he passed a health care bill

Yes the political class defend themselves but it's not supposed to be a club. Either you obey the constitution, follow the laws and charge those violating them or you protect one another.
Remember Nixon resigned rather than face impeachment and they sure weren't watching Clinton's back.

Obama can naively believe they are watching his back but they would impeach him in an instant if they could find or invent a reason.

[The Link]

15. So you think that Obama will actively work to relinquish executive power?

Wow. Make sure to post an OP about it when he does.

The guy has escalated the use of drones and used them to execute U.S. citizens. He has continued domestic spying, and most likely expanded it. What else does he need to do for his fan club to see his is no different on these issues than those that came before him?

[malaise]

16. I don't separate US citizens from citizens anywhere else

You see I am the only non-US citizen among my siblings and I too have rights.

[The Link]

17. Ok. The point stands: He will not relenquish executive power.

He will only leave the office stronger when he leaves. More power. More control. Less transparency. That is how the President's club works. They watch each others backs and they leave the next guy in a stronger position.

[malaise]

19. Stronger how

Most of his agenda has been sabotaged by ReTHUGs in the House and Senate - sadly he doesn't seem to realize that it's a white boys club.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

18. Why? Maybe he is different, but some Chicago politicians have gotten very, very rich.

By "rich," I don't mean thousands or even hundreds of thousands. We're talking multi-million dollars rich.