So they charge Snowden with espionage in pretty short order, but the banksters wrecked . . . . .

[Stinky The Clown]

. . . . the whole world's economy and all these years later and STILL not a single indictment. Did I say indictment? What was I thinking? They didn't even start an investigation.

"That's okay, boys. Take whatever you need."

Make no mistake, I am not a fan of Edward Snowden and have not one word in his defense. But geeeze. Double Standard, much?

[silvershadow]

1. At least I know my emails and phone calls are state secrets?

Dunno what else to say.

[sabrina 1]

21. Not really, they've probably been outsourced so who knows who in what third world country is

'collecting and storing' your phone calls and emails?? And I think that is what they are afraid we will find out. It's all about money. And we have these Private 'Security' Corporations in charge of decisions about our security. And as we all know, their only reason for being, is PROFIT. And we also know they maximize their profits by outsourcing jobs to third world countries. Sooo, it's possible someone in China is reading your emails and listening to your phone calls to pass away the time.

[Coccydynia]

40. Careful, you're tagging half the world's population

as incompetent. Why that might subject you to censure vote.

[sabrina 1]

41. No, I'm tagging those in charge of our security with either gross negligence and incompetence or

deliberately handing over the work THEY are supposed to do to Private Corps whose only goal is to make profits.

The workers just do the job they are told to do. And if this work has been outsourced, then the claim that this is all about our 'security' is a downright lie.

We already know that vetting people for security positions in this country was outsourced. So it's reasonable to assume that the 'collection and storage' of the phone data of the American people has also been outsourced.

[blkmusclmachine]

2. DC is a racket.

[tblue]

51. Yup. If Snowden was a billionaire campaign donor

he would never even have to worry. Our govt is a racket, you are so right. So many examples I can cite as proof.

[littlewolf]

89. ding ding ding .... thread winner ! nt

[Rex]

3. It is because crime only pays on a enormous scale.

The bigger the crime and more the payout, the better off you are. Plus you can own an army of lawyers. Place several layers between you and all laws with zillions of dollars.

[GeorgeGist]

4. It helps to own the AG.

[forestpath]

5. The 1% are sacred to the Obama administration.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. You are surprised?

Go after the banks...you silly.

[malaise]

7. Yah think? n/t

[truedelphi]

8. Last time I checked with my guy Obama,

banksters were part of the One Percent; like, you know, they create jobs and do productive stuff.

And how else would the drug cartels keep their money freshly laundered - if the nation's banksters got prosecuted?

That is why folks like Jaimie Dimon get those gold plated cufflinks stamped "Oval Office" as trinkets, while you and I don't.

[sabrina 1]

22. They do create jobs, but not here, in other countries where there is slave labor available to

help maximize their profits. So in a way he was telling the truth, just not all of it.

[Catherina]

26. True... But we have the honor

the absolute honor of paying for those gold plated cufflinks

[struggle4progress]

9. You could try that as a defense, if you get a speeding ticket, but I won't recommend it

And Snowden could try that as a defense, if and when he lands in court, but I'm guessing it would be against the advice of counsel

[Hissyspit]

27. It's not a defense. It's a statement.

[HiPointDem]

10. kr

[bvar22]

11. Paulson with Co-Conspirators:

[font size=4]Now THIS is Bi-Partisanship!
Hahahahahahahaha SUCKERS!!![/font]

THAT^ is WHY there have been no prosecutions.
They claim to have "Saved the Economy",
but that is not what happened.
They saved THEMSELVES from having to pay their Gambling Debts.

Snowden is obviously NOT a member of this exclusive club,
so he must PAY for HIS crimes against America!


Yes, Virginia.
John Edwards was RIGHT, warts and all.
There ARE Two Americas,
and one of those Americas does NOT like the other America talking about it.


You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]

[JDPriestly]

18. I'd support John Edwards for 2016. At least he knows the score.

They tried to take him out and couldn't. I'm sure he learned a lot from his experience. Might be nice to hear from him about now.

His affair is horrible, but then Vitters still sits in Congress, and Bill Clinton in the eyes of most, was unfaithful in his way, yet he is a hero.

We just might get someone who really could bring some change that would matter.

I'm not saying he would run, or that he could get elected, but he certainly would turn the election process on its heels. Who knows? The campaigning might really mean something.

[struggle4progress]

42. I don't think Edwards has any future in politics. I volunteered extensively

with his 1998 Senate campaign and also for a chunk of 2007 with his Presidential campaign

But he showed an enormous disregard for the people who volunteered to help him, and also for many of his professional staff (some of whom had quit professional jobs in other parts of the country to work long long hours and fall asleep on the floor of his Chapel Hill campaign office), by forgetting that a Presidential campaign is always under a microscope

The prosecution of him by George EB Holding was entirely politically motivated, like many of Holding's other prosecutions (which finally launched Holding into a Congressional seat in 2012, following disastrous redistricting here)

I liked him a lot as a candidate, but IMO he shot himself in the knee

[MNBrewer]

43. YES

and I couldn't care less about his affair. His "vow" wasn't to me, it was to his wife. If he's willing to speak the truth about the "Two Americas" that's all the truth I need from him! I'd vote for him in an INSTANT over Hillary Clinton.

[Catherina]

29. And what a perfectly focused picture that is

It’s cool my friend, it all goes before a secret court; that’s how transparency works!
If your not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear. It was true in 1930 Germany and it's true now.

[WillyT]

12. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! - K & R !!!

[Cleita]

13. And Dick Cheney is still walking around after outing Valerie Plame.

I really don't get the difference between what he did and what Snowden did other than the fact that I believe Cheney committed the greater crime.

[Nye Bevan]

17. I thought Richard Armitage outed Valerie Plame? (nt)

[Cleita]

20. Apparently, he was implicated later, but Jeebus they were all hand in hand

and Cheney as Veep was the buck stops here guy. I would blame the Shrub too, but he seems to not have known about it.

[struggle4progress]

53. No, Armitage was the "muddy-the-waters-guy"

The principles and their political friends played a nice little game of inside-the-beltway baseball, tossing around the responsibility until the story was too confused for anyone to do anything with

[former9thward]

25. He did and he admitted it.

He told his former boss, Colin Powell that he had done it almost immediately. That was the finding of the investigation by Patrick Fitzgerald.

[sabrina 1]

45. They were all working for Dick Cheney, but Libby covered for him, the prosecution worked its way

through all the underlings, and were making progress until they got to Libby. That is why he was charged and convicted of obstruction of justice. He took a fall for the team, and he has been rewarded. No jail time. And he still belongs to the club, a member in good standing for his 'heroism'. In THEIR America he is a hero. Our America doesn't matter much to them.

[rhett o rick]

57. And the current DoJ would rather deprive people of their medical marijuana than prosecute Cheney's

gang. It's a f'n class war and there are those here that support the wrong side.

[MNBrewer]

14. Look forward

[Bluenorthwest]

16. Not back.

Turn the page.

[Catherina]

30. Forgive and forget.

The Son of Man and something or the other about caring for the poor and going through the eye of a needle with a fucking camel.

[JDPriestly]

15. Obama says he wants a national conversation about the surveillance.

I don't think so.

Obama should have been honest and forthright about some of the parameters of this program long, long ago. It's sneaky and underhanded.

Our communications are transparent to the NSA, but the government, the government of Obama who promised transparency, is not open or honest or transparent with us.

Keeping us safe? Who is kidding whom? I can't even talk to family overseas without being undersurveillance.

And what do you want to bet that while the US is not legally allowed to intercept domestic communications, some other country (Great Britain perhaps) is?

Who can we trust? Where do we go?

And, yes. I am law abiding and have "nothing to hide." Nevertheless, I still have curtains on my windows. Shades on some of them. Feeling that I have privacy in my communications as in my home is what makes me feel secure. The Obama and Bush and who knows how many other administrations have violated my privacy and made me feel less secure. I feel less free in what I can say and do.

And this surveillance will lead to worse. This kind of pathological interest on the part of a supposedly freely elected government in what citizens in a country are saying and doing and who they are saying and doing it to is very ominous. This kind of surveillance usually supports totalitarian systems. It is incompatible with even a crude imitation of a democracy.

[cpwm17]

28. Well said

[sabrina 1]

46. It's creepy, isn't it? To live in a country where a peeping tom can be arrested, but a gigantic

peeping tom operated by the government is only watching you for your safety. And to think we thought Obama would begin to reverse all of this.

I wonder who we could ever trust again. That is the worst thing about all this, just five years ago I still trusted that if we just got the Democrats elected, things would get better.

Now millions more people have lost trust in any of them.

[ReRe]

49. Hear! Hear!!

You're reading my mind...

[davidn3600]

19. You dont go to jail if you are part of the 1%

You should know that.

They not only rigged the slot machine, they bought the entire casino.

[avaistheone1]

23. It because the banksters crimes are too big and systemic to fight,

in contrast to Edward Snowden is little more than a kid just trying to be a good citizen and protect our sacred rights.

[loyalsister]

95. There are a lot of things that are unethical and damaging that are not illegal

Some laws can be exploited in ways that do damage. Knowing and that knowing the defense available to the banksters makes it look like it would be a wasted effort to me.

In contrast Snowden very clearly did break laws- with pride it seems.

[Nye Bevan]

24. Greed, hubris, recklessness and incompetence are not crimes.

Much as many of us would like to see some of these people in prison, there is such a thing as due process and proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

[tiny elvis]

85. recklessness is a crime

due process remains due and not processed

what are you defending with nonsense and platitudes?

[jazzimov]

31. Apples vs Oranges.

You'll have to excuse me, but currently the new management at work is trying to implement whereas they can compare apples to apples, but the reality is that our customers demand that we have apples, oranges, kiwi fruit, bananas, ....

But, seriously, you are trying to compare two completely different scenarios.

[Turbineguy]

32. The Banksters made stealing money legal first.

[ReRe]

50. Whistle blowing used to be legal...

and I don't remember the law being repealed, but it appears to be illegal NOW.

[Turbineguy]

62. Whistle blowing?

Oh yeah, like the Rosenbergs.

[randome]

69. Leaking secrets is illegal. Whistleblowing is not.

Different words, different meaning.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[ReRe]

76. Leaking is when you go rogue....

... instead of through the whistle blower system that is set up. You remember what happened to the last official whistle blower, don't you? Which may have been the reason Snowden went the rogue route...

[maindawg]

33. Manning, Snowden, Assange, Barrett Brown ,

anyone see a trend? We are descending into a police state. We have surveillance cameras everywhere. We have a prison industrial complex. They are growing. Getting stronger. Building and buying more prison space. Banking on a boom in the prison business.
No one cares.

[Civilization2]

34. Snowden threatens the 1% and their control over "democracy"./

banksters ARE the 1% and they say who gets prosecuted. Interesting how that works eh?

First they came for the whistle-blowers,. . then everyone agreed that the official story was the ONLY story.

[Octafish]

35. Banksters who also laundererd billions in drug money...

...and yet a guy who uncovers wall-to-wall spying on all Americans, including politicians and CIA director's girlfriends, has to hightail it out of town before he gets muzzled in a secret jail cell.

[suffragette]

36. K&R

[suffragette]

37. Too busy appointing them to indict them.

And that's a global issue, too.

Good list here near bottom of the page. But I think even that doesn't include people like the ones in the Bullingdon Club who have the ear of Prime Ministers and large city mayors and so have undue influence even if not appointed (yet).

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Goldman_Sachs

[Coccydynia]

38. Don't know why. He only revealed what we already knew.

[nineteen50]

39. Snowden is not

too big to jail.

[Monkie]

92. snowden should start bulking up, i hear street food is great in hong kong

if he hurries he might be to big to jail by the time they catch him

[Phlem]

44. Ugh...

Finally!

Thank You!

-p

[backscatter712]

47. Acts like Snowdens are the only thing that brings sunlight on government corruption.

That's why those like Snowden or Manning get instantly crushed like bugs.

They expose the racket.

[GiveMeFreedom]

48. The fix is in.

I'll be dead soon, but I am sure, not long after my death some pissed off people in the US will start a fight with the government causing a lot of dead. Of course I could be wrong, but how much more can we swallow of this shit? They are killing us now and living well doing it. Fuck them. Never mind, no one will do a damn thing and people will take slavery over death. Death is better is my understanding and I do not have to wait much longer, thank you very much.

[ReRe]

55. I'd rather be unafraid and dead...

... than afraid and living. ~~ ReRe

[treestar]

52. Fallacy, that does not mean it's OK to break the law

"He got away with it" is childish.

It's not clear what the "banksters" did. Eddie, however, clearly broke a law. Prosecutors go after cases they can prove.

[ReRe]

58. Here's a starting place for you:

A trilogy of books by David Cay Johnston might help you understand what the banksters did:


"Free Lunch: How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government Expense (and Stick You With the Bill)"

"Perfectly Legal: The Covert Campaign to Rig Our Tax System to Benefit the Super Rich and Cheat Everyone Else"

and

"The Fine Print: How Big Corporations Use 'Plain English' and Other Tricks to Rob You Blind."

[treestar]

63. If they have to write three books to come up with some theory

They've failed. 18 US code has statutes. Quote one of those. "The banksters" cannot be charged, only individuals. Name an individual.

[Stinky The Clown]

68. You got us. Everybody on DU failed to recognize that the banksters are not actually individuals

[treestar]

70. When you get the AG job

tell us which people you will indict for what. And how you will prove it.

[Stinky The Clown]

74. "He doesn't have the votes" R6.8.b

Is he responsible for *anything*???

[treestar]

75. What?

I fail to see how that relates to anything, much less my most recent post.

[Stinky The Clown]

78. It has everything to do with your post. Your post was simply a latter day variant of the reason . .

. . . . . we never even tried for single payer health care: "He doesn't have the votes."

That is an excuse, not a defense.

Your post is the same logic applied to this latest political transgression.

[treestar]

80. Enough votes are needed to pass anything

That's not an "excuse" - that's the separation of powers.

How do you expect to get single payer until there is a Congress with a majority that will vote for a bill that has it in it?

[Stinky The Clown]

82. Now we're at the nub of it, my friend!

I.Would.Expect.An.Actual.Democratic.President.To.Actually.Fight.For.Actual.Democratic.Principles.

And my expectation has been unmet on a panoply of issues, not just single payer.

Gitmo

Environment (Keystone)

Social Secuity

Medicare/Medicaid

Et cetera.

Tima after time this guy has either caved or started negotiating at the other teams' 40 yard line. Once is a topic for discussion, but all these are a clear, indisputable pattern.

Contrast This guy to Johnson. Had Johnson not twisted arms and used all his persuasive powers, the Civil Rights Act and The Great Society may never have happened. Just sayin' . . . . .

[treestar]

83. No you're trying to avoid the fact you need that Congress

LBJ had that Congress.

I don't expect Presidents to bully Congress; that's not the point of the separation of powers. Those Senators could vote the way they wanted. What has Obama got to threaten teabaggers with to force them to vote for single payer? It is you who is the authoritarian and wants a dictator. Apparently LBJ was one. Good the Republic survived then. You cheapen everything that happened that you say was good, when you imply it was forced on the nation by LBJ's bullying.

[Stinky The Clown]

84. An answerscuse for everything

Have a swell weekend.

By the way, leaders lead.

See ya around campus.

[treestar]

86. The President is not supposed to be the leader of Congress

Spend more time on that campus.

[Stinky The Clown]

99. Full circle: "He Doesn't Have The Votes"

Kind of a whinescuse if you ask me . . . . which you didn't.

Get you're last word in. I'm tired of your studied obtuseness.

[Hissyspit]

60. It's clear what the torturers did.

And it's clear that they were not prosecuted.

[treestar]

65. Same thing

Name a torturer and name the statutes violated. That is what the AG would have to do.

Lynddie what's her name was prosecuted along with others.

[Hissyspit]

66. CIA torturers, not some grunts.

[treestar]

71. Like who?

And they should be prosecuted for what, with what evidence?

And none of that allows some grunt to break the laws 18 USC


18 USC 641 Theft of property and records

18 USC 793 Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

18 USC 798 Disclosure of classified information

and use the defense "the torturers weren't prosecuted so I shouldn't be" a very vague defense anyway.

[Hissyspit]

72. It's not a defense.

Oblivious.

[ReRe]

54. I agree, Stinnky...

... we do have two standards, two systems of laws, two planes of existence. And sometimes, laws just disappear into thin air. Like the Whistle Blower law, the 1st, 4th & 5th Amendments. Those must have bit the dust with the (Corporate) Patriot Act?

[KT2000]

56. this injustice

to me looks like a turning point. It is so blatant and other than Elizabeth Warren there is no response from Congress or the Executive branch.
There are many more cynical people now than before the grand theft.
We are getting more and more like the citizens of the once USSR - powerless because the game is fixed.

[slipslidingaway]

59. Remember when Obama backed the Repub bill ...

from the get go with some statement saying 'if we knew the economy was so bad earlier we could have done things differently, but now we have to stand behind this Repub bill to rescue the economy / stock market.'

I sure do and wondered about his economic team ... if this was such a last minute shock to them

P.S. I'm not a racist, somehow feeling obliged to state that after reading some of the posts on DU lately

[Enthusiast]

61. Excellent point, Stinky.

Where is the DOJ on the fraud? Fraud, I might add, that destroyed the world economy.

[blkmusclmachine]

98. In DC, The Banksters = Too Big To Jail

DC: by, and for, the 1%

[Catherina]

64. US charges Snowden with spying? You can't make that up! Why don't they charge themselves? n/t

[raouldukelives]

67. Thanks to the tireless efforts of investors we have the best government money can buy.

Why on earth would people who prefer Wall St to Main St, who do all they can to ensure fuure generations have it as bad as possible, suddenly start to care about antiquated American ideals? They have done all they can to ensure not only are those ideals openly mocked, but are rescinded.
It will only stop if they stop.

[City Lights]

73. It makes me sick.

Absolutely infuriating!

[mimi85]

77. I see that everyone is in a good mood today

Geez, this thread could ruin a nice day. Anyone doing anything actually enjoyable this weekend? Reading DU has been bad for my health lately.

[Stinky The Clown]

79. You seem to have a good sense of what's right for you.

[fjlovato]

88. I agree

I am about to quit reading DU because there seems to be only idiots posting on it.

[Stinky The Clown]

93. Hahahahaha

Oh the irony.

[Generic Other]

81. Like crack in the ghetto and cocaine in the suburbs

You got it, Stinky. That is why they had to put a blindfold on Justice.

[fjlovato]

87. At long last

Everytime I watch a politics show on TV I wonder who they are talking about on the "far left" who join the "far right" in saying stupid things. All of you are "them" and you are crazy. Go join the other paranoids in the Tea Party, the Democrats don't need crackpots like you. Maybe it would make you safer if you join other s who are afraid of the "govment."

[DontTreadOnMe]

90. I agree... I consider myself to be a Lefty, but DU has turned paranoid.

The FAR LEFT is running around the circle of Politics straight into the Teabaggers, and they don't like it when some of us point that out here on the Forums.

If you make a statement such as "The politicians is DC..."... or point to ANYONE in office, you are really just pointing at the American people who voted them in office.

If you think the current politicians favor the 1%ers (my personal grudge)... then organize to vote them out of office.. from both parties.

[Stinky The Clown]

94. "Don't Tread on Me"?????

Yeah, right. I trust you for life lessons.

?w=960








and don't drop this, now . . . .








Have a swell day.

[DontTreadOnMe]

96. Hey Stinky, check the date I joined DU... well before the Tea Party ever was formed

I get AT LEAST ONE PERSON A MONTH who accuses me of being a Teabagger... because of my SCREEN NAME.
Maybe you should judge me by the color of my skin?

So Stinky... go find a single post here on DU from me those says I am a teabagger.

I think the Clown stepped in his own paranoia.

[Stinky The Clown]

100. To search means I'd have to care.

No disrespect, but I really don't. In fact, I didn't even check your join date.

[Summer Hathaway]

101. The Clown can't help stepping in the paranoia

After all, it is about thigh-high right about now, and rising.

[Stinky The Clown]

102. ......

Disgust =/= Paranoia

[DirkGently]

91. Damaging the powerful is serious crime. Damaging the less powerful ...

... not so much.

[Uncle Joe]

97. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Stinky.