General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWould it be better if everyone on DU agreed on NSA?
That the data collection was necessary and no one should be concerned about privacy or the Constitution? We should support the President 100%? What would we be discussing instead?
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)The spying on Americans is Terrible and must stop, and anybody who supports this program is an administration lackey.
Bryant
kentuck
(111,111 posts)But I don't think either position by itself would help our Party or our country.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Is he even old enough?
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)reinterpreting the 2nd to show militia=national guard and stop the insanity of Zimmy's in the street
and electing Hillary Clinton in 2016 to keep Barack Obama's agenda for another 8 years after 2017 and to change
the court to 6 to 3 or 7 to 2 liberal with more great SCOTUS like 2 of the best ever, Sonia Sotomayer and Elana Kagan.
and making sure that the BUSH/PAULfamilyinc never step foot near power again.
along with 1000 items like hoping zimmy is found guilty and sentenced to the max.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Grayson, Saunders, Chomsky, Gore ,etc have condemned it.
So the question is: Should Democrats support other Dems in condemning surveillence, or should they support the GOP toture regime?
kentuck
(111,111 posts)Hmmmm...let me think.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)thanks for reminding me.
Money and guns are passe', relics of another time, another place a long time ago in a galaxy so far far away
If you get the guns out of the street, and get rid of paper money, ALL street crime would be eradicated as there would be nothing to steal.
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)Not sure if I should say Mooo or Baaa ?
redqueen
(115,108 posts)"swooners", "the BOrG", etc. etc. ad nauseam?
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Also, some of the woo that's being thrown around, we could really do without ("The NSA downloads all Internet traffic constantly!!! ZOMG! Snowden is going to be assassinated!"
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)For instance, I learned that I lick Stalin's ass. What remarkable imagery!
Just Saying
(1,799 posts)I don't know how calling each other names helps anything. We don't have to agree but surely we can debate without this type of thing going on.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Lots of name calling on both sides.
Personally if I find someone to be so annoying that I want to call them names, I just put them on ignore.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)This has really gotten out of control.
In the meantime, I believe that there is an important vote in Congress in re to reproductive rights.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)acerbic I may be but I try to avoid flat-out namecalling (not always successfully...)
treestar
(82,383 posts)Merely for questioning and pointing out the absurd exaggerations.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)A large group of DUers (and their socks) engages in a McCarthyist campaign of character assassination and poo-flinging against a person who sacrificed everything to blow the whistle on Stasi-style police-state surveillance, and the people who don't like character assassination and similar sorts of behavior are told to chill out and be civil?
That's rich!
Character assassins deserve to get their heads bitten off here. Why should I be civil to those who behave so reprehensibly?
kentuck
(111,111 posts)Then get out of the kitchen?
redqueen
(115,108 posts)Do I need a sarcasm tag?
Yeah. Your framing makes it clear.
kentuck
(111,111 posts)And sometimes I am just the devil.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)I'll be dishing it out too!
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)But as has been pointed out elsewhere, it's a bubble.
The whole 'Snowden is a savior, and you'll be flamed if you disagree' mindset is eroding the overall appeal of this place as one for a reasonably open-minded exchange of ideas.
There's a whole world going on out there that is appropriately NOT obsessed with the NSA issue. Here, you'd think it's just about the ONLY thing to worry about. That says a lot.
The namecallers don't brook those who aren't in lockstep with their thinking.
Ironic.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)Metadata. It's encrypted. Includes no identifying information. You don't own the phone number nor the metadata. It belongs to the telecoms.
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[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
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kentuck
(111,111 posts)Or the government?
Recursion
(56,582 posts)When I dial a number, I'm asking my carrier to route a call. Their log of that fact is their information, which is why it's not Constitutionally protected (though it is partially protected by statute).
randome
(34,845 posts)The alternative is to have the NSA check every single telecom in America when they have a warrant. It would probably take weeks to get through them all.
Much more effective -and safe seeing as how it's encrypted- to have the data in one place.
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[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
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Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)kentuck
(111,111 posts)No matter your position. Where would our country go without this debate? In my opinion, it would be a fatal mistake. I have no option but to take the position I take.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)All subjects?
kentuck
(111,111 posts)I think it is good to have.
redqueen
(115,108 posts)Response to redqueen (Reply #36)
Buzz Clik This message was self-deleted by its author.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)and Michelle's latest awesome dress.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Bo is cute
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)kentuck
(111,111 posts)...is a necessity. Somebody has to always question those in power.
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)ipsos custodes?" ("Who will guard the guardians?"
Enrique
(27,461 posts)gcomeau
(5,764 posts)...if everyone at least bothered dealing with the facts before forming their opinions instead of large groups of people running around with their hair on fire because they're just naturally so inclined and see an opportunity to let loose.
(Recommended)
Social lobotomies have been proven to reduce anxiety and tension in some instances, but as we can note within the republican population, it isn't 100% successful.
bhikkhu
(10,726 posts)Wealth and income inequality is the big issue in the US
Health care costs are the second biggest issue
Third may be arguable, but gun violence is what I would say. We have the possibility of passing meaningful legislation on background checks at least.
I have to say, for the NSA thing was always old news, easily explained and easily justified for me. That sort of thing has been going on under every president since FDR, at least. I don't mind if things change for the better, but its not even an interesting topic.
CanonRay
(14,141 posts)including the sun rises in the east.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I would imagine that many people posses many opinions. Some of the opinions, regardless of whether we agree with them or not, are presented logically, rationally, and as objectively as possible.
Other opinions however, regardless of whether we agree with them or not, seem little more than an excuse for the petulant-minded to call others "authoritarians", "terrorist-lovers", and a host of other ineffectual labels which do no good other than to self-validate the person using the pejoratives.
"What would we be discussing instead?" Anything you want I would think, unless you feel obligated to deny yourself a valid topic of discussion else someone may disagree with you...
WovenGems
(776 posts)If you are being investigated then your computer and cell phone records can be seized. Right? But given how many companies are involved in communications and the variety of retention policies they have a central collection point is needed. The point is even though the data is being captured a warrant is still needed to view it or use it. In the NSA history no instances of having to show in court to explain where evidence came from. Why not?
kentuck
(111,111 posts)He has an almost uncontrollable urge to use it. That is the natural inclination of authoritarians. Give them a 3-D printer and they want to print a gun. Give the government the technology and the opportunity to spy and to eavesdrop and they will do it. That is their first inclination - to suspect people of wrongdoing and to punish, rather than to reward.
Using that line of thought we should have a really cool yard sale. Wanna buy an aircraft carrier? After all, if the bad guys are use whatever they then we need to take away all military toys.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)Raine1967
(11,589 posts)Lord of the Flies.
This entire NSA debacle is like an artistic interpretation of the book right here on DU.