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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Rude Pundit: Liberal NSA Apologists Can Take It All, Want More
There's a sexist old joke the Rude Pundit's been thinking about since the revelations of the massive amount of data collection and, you know, spying on Americans and others being done by the NSA, FBI, Prism, and who knows who else - maybe the Chinese restaurant on the corner here. It's one of those jokes about dicks that 13 year-olds tell and laugh at as if they understand them. Here it goes:
A dude with a giant cock can't find any women who can take his entire huge prick when he's fucking them. He keeps fucking women, but they stop him because his dick is so big that, when he's fucking their pussies, it hurts, like he's gonna rupture something. So the dude is completely unsatisfied. He decides to take out an ad, challenging women to take it all. And women take up the thrown gauntlet. Woman after woman tries to fit his immense schlong into their cunts, but it's no-go. Suddenly, a small, old woman appears. (It's never made clear by the teller where this interview/boning session is occurring, but let's say it's a room at a Holiday Inn because, of course, it would be a room at a Holiday Inn.) She tells him that she can take the massive member, all of it. In fact, a giant cock is the only way she can get off. To himself, the dude scoffs. No way, he thinks. She gets on the bed and tells him, "Put it in halfway first so I can get used to it." Fuck that, the dude thinks, I'm gonna shove it all in and kill this old lady. So he thrusts it all in, quickly. The old woman moans, catches her breath, and says, "Okay, now the other half."
Rim shot.
When he was with his middle school friends, it was funny in a "Hey, that guy thought he was gonna kill a woman with his dick, but she showed him" kind of way. But when he thought about the joke in the last week, he felt sorry for the old woman, so used up by men that she could barely feel the fucking she was getting, no matter how big the cock, and he was sad that the woman put herself in that position, as if the ability to take an enormous prick was some measure of her worth and that she was apparently ready and willing to take more, even if it hurt. You might respond, "Yeah, but maybe she just wanted to get fucked." And the Rude Pundit would sigh and pop a Xanax with some whiskey to make you fade away.
Whenever someone who is presumptively on the left defends or brushes off the NSA/FBI spying on everyone, they become that woman. Jeffrey Toobin, Joe Klein, numerous Democrats in Congress, basically anyone whose reaction to the revelations was "So? They're keeping us safe," they all have taken the fucking and said they're ready to get the other half.
And with that is the number of people who attack Edward Snowden, the analyst who leaked the information (with more to come) as some sort of sociopathic rebel who wanted to betray everyone because that's what high school dropouts do or some such shit. Don't they get that it hurts their argument to attack Snowden? See, if Snowden is a misfit toy crossed with Rain Man, how the fuck did he get such a high security clearance? If he was such a loose cannon-in-waiting, why didn't the intelligence apparatus see that in him and not give him the ability to deal with Top Secret material? How good is an intelligence organization that can't successfully vet its workers? And if we can't trust them to read the tea leaves on the people who are being asked to read the tea leaves, how the fuck can we trust them to sift through our metadata or web histories?
But, no, go ahead, let that big dick fuck you and ask for more.
The point for people who are upset about the NSA scandal isn't that spying happens. No shit. We know it. The point here is that everyone was spied on. And we're supposed to have rules about that. And who fucking cares if a court approves it? Who cares if a secret court is making secret rulings on secret evidence that secretly let the secret finders find more secrets in secret? The Supreme Court ruled on Citizens United in a way that the left is savagely opposed to. Did everyone just throw up their hands and say, "Well, fuck me, guess the fight's over." No. Even President Obama told the court they were wrong.
But let's take Obama at his word. Let's really debate it. Now, tell us all how we can do that when the response to any questions is that something is classified and that we can't know what good is being done. Former NSA workers corroborate Snowden, and they all say this is just the "tip of the iceberg." Maybe we can have a debate with winks and high signs. Or maybe the government will just lie, like James Clapper to Congress.
Look, the Rude Pundit doesn't like that this is happening under a Democratic president. It did, though. So ask yourself, dear, sweet fellow liberals, many of whom oppose things like stop-and-frisk as invasions of privacy: If this was a Bush or a Nixon, would you be so blase' about it?
That old woman should have never gone to the Holiday Inn. She should have answered the ad with a letter that told the dude to take his big dick and go fuck himself with it and see if he can take it all.
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)So rude, so true.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I just asked Snowden's detractors the exact same question in my OP. They TRUST those who hired someone they believe never should have the job. They blame HIM for being hired!
Lol, thanks Rude One, it's colorful as always, but you made the point better than I.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)is an interesting if difficult to observe choice.
Just very much groovy in my book. Gives me the creeps.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Popcorn is just as creepy as comparing National Security to a sexist "joke" about having a huge cock rammed in multiple "pussies" and "cunts"? If you say so.
Romulus Quirinus
(524 posts)So Brave!
bunnies
(15,859 posts)So if I change my name to rudebunnies I can be a sexist asshole too? Yay!
mimi85
(1,805 posts)I think we would've gotten the point without being so disgusting.
Many here on this very board, have not.
If it takes the Rude Pundit to make the idiots (including some here on this board) understand the gravity and importance of what just got disclosed, so be it.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)If a member posted something along the lines of the article, they might get shown the door.
Just re-posting someone else's stuff is safe.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)they'd be ripped to complete shreds. Yet this piece of sexist garbage gets 123 recs (so far). I guess degrading women is all peachy-keen as long as it fits the popular narrative. Its disgusting. Especially on a Democratic board.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Total double standard from people who fail to see their own hypocrisy.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)That'll be totally different due to some bizarre twist of logic. But then again, maybe if Rush written this instead of RP, just as many people would be swooning.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Same type of humiliating sexist crap, and it gets applauded here because the author is on 'our' side.
And many of those cheering it on need to re-think what they are supporting.
This is vile.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Thats exactly it. Exactly.
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)and glad it makes you squirm.
RL
bunnies
(15,859 posts)Yes. Degrading women repulses me. Words, in themselves, dont bother me in the least. I do, however, find sexism rather abhorrent.
Obviously you dont. Good for you. I guess.
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)RL
pscot
(21,024 posts)But apt.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)And he makes a great point; let's have the debate, in the very least!
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Should have been Motel 6 instead.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)That's really all this is. We used to get angry when we heard stories of secret courts with secret rulings and secret interpretations of the law and secret prisons and spying and all the other crap the USSR was famous for.
...And no we have all of that here. Because some of us are scared, and some of us are just plain evil.
How Un-American is that, if you'll pardon the term?
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Too bad Sinclair Lewis isn't here to write the sequel. It CAN happen here.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Is is happening here.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)You and I have both seen it happen it from here at DU.
*laughs* and I'd love to have a count of how many of my posts warning about it were deleted back before the jury system simply because someone didn't want to think about the implications.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)We are both Cassandras
tavalon
(27,985 posts)I've called myself that for as long as I can remember. Would that people would recognize before or after that I was right, but then, I wouldn't be a Cassandra, would I?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)It is what it is.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)and many people here are busy focusing on the wrong thing. Personality or who happens to be the President now. Not The Point!
canoeist52
(2,282 posts)"Conason follows Sinclair Lewis' 1935 book It Can't Happen Here with a firm assertion that fascism can indeed take root and blossom in the U.S. if Americans aren't more vigilant about freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Although we are not facing full-blown fascism, Conason sees a "gradual and insidious turn toward authoritarian rule" for the first time since the Nixon administration. He explores how and why Lewis' grim and amusing tale resonates today as Americans watch an increasingly secretive Bush administration usurp the power of the legislature and disregard provisions of the Constitution by stoking fear of terrorism. Conason, author of Big Lies (2003) and The Raw Deal (2005), points to periods throughout history when nations have been tempted by tyrants to turn over the reins of government, and the factors in U.S. history and culture that make us vulnerable to similar impulses now, in the midst of manufactured fears. However readers might feel about Conason's political viewpoints, his caution is worth considering." Vanessa Bush
Hydra
(14,459 posts)I'm a student of Hannah Arendt, so I fully believe we can and will slide into the abyss unless everyone understands how far there is to fall.
NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)the secrecy about the secrecy and the secret evidence is a killer. Also the lies, and the private contractors handling our private info. Fuck national security. I'm so sick of that term being thrown around to stifle all discussion of what they are doing.
ybbor
(1,556 posts)"We can't stop them from protecting our national security". "National Security"= corporate interests. Such total BS!
Way to go Rude!
Agony
(2,605 posts)1:03 2:31 2:55
"if you don't like it, lump it. get used to it world"
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Thank you very much for posting this.
He categorically denied the facts because it didn't fit his agenda, and we were just supposed to take his word for it.
"National Security Interests"- as the interviewer said, "That's sort of like 'divine right,' isn't it?"
That was powerful and freaky...thank you for posting it.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)That was a horrible 3 minutes of my life that I will never get back. Who the fuck does Duane Clarridge think he is and worse than that, who does the US think he is? He's clearly a Mafia goon in a CIA disguise. Disgusting.
NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)are you kidding?
Besides, the CIA has long worked with mafia thugs.
NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)the real mindset of the PTB
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)I agree.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)These folks aren't 'liberals', at least as a political philosophy. They are followers. As in "Whatever my President says to do, I will do it, and will defend it". That is a different philosophy. I wish they would stop calling themselves liberals, though. "Obamaians" perhaps?
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)They care not about anything but defending one man, in fact that man's illusion. They should not be listened to.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)I assume that you don't expect anything but burned bridges with all your "they should not be listened to" talk.
Nice way to try to denigrate/isolate other members of DU, who DO vote Democratic.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)They are unquestioning supporters of the Democratic Party. They ALWAYS vote for whomever the leadership tells them to. Undoubtedly in a straight party line vote also.
Your threat is meaningless.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)But since you're cloaked in anonymity, I guess it's a form of consequence-free catharsis since you can't really fight the two-party system very effectively from a message board.
Look at your own posts for a good example of what you speak of.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)it sucks that people have to insult others' intelligence under this so-called 'big tent' because they're not totally in line with their views, or dare to see some other aspect, or are simply not willing to be as hyperbolic about an issue as they.
When someone you might consider to be on "your" side of the issue starts asking people to make lists, well.
Number23
(24,544 posts)tiny minority.
But hey, keep calling everyone "stupid," "authoritarians," "Third Wayers," etc, etc. idiotic, stupid meaningless names. THAT'S the way to finally crack that 20% of the American voting public mark!1
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)when it is time to vote, we are told to tow the line and vote for a democrat even if that democrat does not represent our values. If we don't vote for a democrat we are blamed for the republicans winning. So, if we're talking about people not needing votes, then I guess the democrats don't need mine.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)Yep, I still don't want the GOP controlling a damn thing.
And I'll say again: Until someone comes up with a viable alternative to either party that can win nationally, I'm voting Dem. Straight ticket.
People can cluck and turn their nose up at that idea all they want, but I'll be damned if I want the likes of Eric Cantor and Louie Gohmert and Marco Rubio calling the shots.
It'd be nice to see Dems stop bitching about which Dems are more Dem or true Dem or Liberal or whateverthefuck and get together to keep the GOP from sending everything to hell, but apparently that's too groupthinky and locksteppy for some.
Waiting to see them unveil their grand plan. Anytime now...
mimi85
(1,805 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)as bad. Listen, I don't begrudge anyone their vote. My personal opinion is that each person's vote is personal, private, and sacred. Each person should vote their conscience. Which is why I can no longer just go along with whatever the democrats do. If they don't represent my values, I cannot vote for them.
Demit
(11,238 posts)from calling the shots? You can't personally be in a position to vote them all out. They're all from different states. That kind of makes no sense.
And your statement about wanting an alternative to the two parties to being able to win nationally before you'll stop not voting for an alternative is kind of nonsensical too. I mean, voters continuing to vote for the existing parties is pretty much why alternatives never get viable.
Such meanies!
I thought it was liberals and lefties who were the reason why Democrats lose elections?
Because DLCers who scream at anyone who stands up for Democratic principles and the Constitution are doing a GREAT job at encouraging Democratic votes!
Again, thanks for the LOLZ
Skittles
(153,254 posts)Romulus Quirinus
(524 posts)One for each end of the spectrum :p
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Just how the PTB want us. Huzzah!
Myrina
(12,296 posts)They're addicted to the "Hope meme"/cult of personality.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)I think that both parties have their die hard supporters who let their leadership do the thinking and choices for them. In some ways, a party has to have a base that is unquestioning, or else it will dissolve under pressure. The problem is that there are those who are quite good at getting under everyone else's skin in their unthinking loyalty. I guess that is just part of the way of the Internet.
Myrina
(12,296 posts).... My suggestion was in response to your suggestion of "Obamaians" ....
n2doc
(47,953 posts)Will have to think of a word less insulting than "sheeple" though.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)Who swing to the other side of the loyalty spectrum:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023016590
Both sides indeed.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)people that have previously expressed opionions on both sides of this matter have pretty much universally been aghast at that post.
MADem
(135,425 posts)they've both done their share of prevaricating.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)The Guardian has not revised any of our articles and, to my knowledge, has no intention to do so. That's because we did not claim that the NSA document alleging direct collection from the servers was true; we reported - accurately - that the NSA document claims that the program allows direct collection from the companies' servers. Before publishing, we went to the internet companies named in the documents and asked about these claims. When they denied it, we purposely presented the story as one of a major discrepancy between what the NSA document claims and what the internet companies claim, as the headline itself makes indisputably clear."
As for Snowden, the orchestrated backlash is expected - that's how the administration always treats leakers/whistleblowers:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/14/the-sickening-snowden-backlash.html
MADem
(135,425 posts)And Greenwald is still lying--the Guardian has "revised"--they haven't rewritten GG's shit but they most certainly have issued clarifications and updates, so he's bullshitting, still. It's like he can't help himself.
While the rest of the world plays Where In The World Is Edward Snowdiego?, The Guardian has quietly clarified a key piece of Glenn Greenwalds reporting, in comically aggressive/aggressive fashion. When news of the NSAs Prism data collection program was first broken by Greenwald and The Washington Posts Laura Poitros, the grabber was that the spy agency had direct access to the servers of large internet providers. WaPo, however, backed off of this claim almost immediately, while The Guardian let it stand until today, when it left-cheek-sneaked out a clarification by other reporters.
Calling this a clarification is actually very generous, since Greenwalds initial reporting on Prism gave the unmistakable impression that the NSA was jacking directly into the servers of companies like Google and Facebook, and that it collected information without authorization....
http://www.mediaite.com/online/fulsome-prism-blues-the-guardian-offers-2nd-worst-clarification-ever-on-nsa-story/
And doesn''t Kirsten Powers have an interesting background--a Democrat who has done a lot of work for Rupert Murdoch--he's the guy who owns a minority share in the Hong Kong paper where "Ed" gave his second interview. Strange bedfellows...
http://www.thedailybeast.com/contributors/kirsten-powers.html
There's a lot going on here, and anyone who is trying to make this a party line issue has their head wedged quite firmly up their ass. This is not about "Obama supporters" vs. "everyone else." That's too easy.
This thing is a centipede, and there are 99 shoes left to drop. I would not be surprised if some of that footwear was made in China.
I've never cared for GG since the first time I heard him (or read - can't remember now). Kind of the same feeling I had the first time I saw Tiger Woods and Lance Armstrong. And my daughter's boyfriend.
Maybe I should go into business as a fortune teller.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)From the Prism document itself (from this link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/08/nsa-surveillance-prism-obama-live?guni=Network%20front:network-front%20full-width-1%20bento-box:Bento%20box osition2#block-51b36893e4b0cc6424372292):
The slide, below, details different methods of data collection under the FISA Amendment Act of 2008 (which was renewed in December 2012). It clearly distinguishes Prism, which involves data collection from servers, as distinct from four different programs involving data collection from "fiber cables and infrastructure as data flows past".
The NSA documents clearly say that PRISM collects "directly from the servers" of the indicated companies. Greenwald reported both that the documents indicated this and also that the companies had denied it.
That is not a lie.
MADem
(135,425 posts)You are showing me "before" and I am talking about "after" -- and the reference is that slide, specifically. It would help if you read the links.
Why did they "clarify" if they were so certain of their facts?
http://www.mediaite.com/online/fulsome-prism-blues-the-guardian-offers-2nd-worst-clarification-ever-on-nsa-story/
Again:
While the rest of the world plays Where In The World Is Edward Snowdiego?, The Guardian has quietly clarified a key piece of Glenn Greenwalds reporting, in comically aggressive/aggressive fashion. When news of the NSAs Prism data collection program was first broken by Greenwald and The Washington Posts Laura Poitros, the grabber was that the spy agency had direct access to the servers of large internet providers. WaPo, however, backed off of this claim almost immediately, while The Guardian let it stand until today, when it left-cheek-sneaked out a clarification by other reporters.
Calling this a clarification is actually very generous, since Greenwalds initial reporting on Prism gave the unmistakable impression that the NSA was jacking directly into the servers of companies like Google and Facebook, and that it collected information without authorization:
The National Security Agency has obtained direct access to the systems of Google, Facebook, Apple and other US internet giants, according to a top secret document obtained by the Guardian.
The document claims collection directly from the servers of major US service providers.
Companies are legally obliged to comply with requests for users communications under US law, but the Prism program allows the intelligence services direct access to the companies servers.
But the Prism program renders that consent unnecessary, as it allows the agency to directly and unilaterally seize the communications off the companies servers.
With this program, the NSA is able to reach directly into the servers of the participating companies and obtain both stored communications as well as perform real-time collection on targeted users.
There was even a slide that referenced collection directly from the servers of the companies. As it turns out, though, the slide was referring to a different kind of server, which I will let Bob Cesca (who flagged the correction) explain:
It sounds like an FTP server to me, not unlike Dropbox. This is how many of us transfer digital files that are too large for email. The NSA apparently doesnt enjoy a free pass to directly grab up server data at will instead, it merely downloads it from an FTP server (or similar) after its been placed there by the tech company that set it up for them. Again, this undercuts one of the most outrage-inducing aspects of Greenwalds story, not to mention the initial Washington Post reporting as well. The NSA doesnt have direct access to anything other than an innocuous file transfer mailbox. But direct access sounds sexier and therefore feeds the outrage agenda.
Oooops.
Big fail, there.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)But he didn't "lie."
MADem
(135,425 posts)hasn't retracted a substantial and substantive material error in his work product.
He drank the Kool Aid. He's not reporting the story, he's part of it.
It's an error, all right--a huge mistake, the way he went about this. He's not to be believed--at least not without two unrelated sources backing up what he says.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)He reported on what the documents said, and also reported that the targeted companies were refuting it. That's accurate.
MADem
(135,425 posts)That wasn't accurate.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)let's have a thorough and transparent investigation of the program.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)---
Marr
(20,317 posts)if they're one of the few that actually embraces it. Most of the apologists I've seen around here use "liberal" and "the left" as pejoratives. They seem to prefer the much more malleable, nebulous, team-oriented word, "Democrat".
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Read Bob Altemeyer's book The Authoritarians for a good psychological analysis of this personality.
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
Also read John Dean's books, Conservatives Without Conscience in particular.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)r how bad it turned out (viz, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq--Syria, Iran?)
FlyByNight
(1,756 posts)Been wondering that question ever since Prism was exposed. Be it either wing of the Business Party, this is all very troubling - to say the least. Still wondering where the probable cause lies in all of this.
Contextually, the rest of the post is spot on too. Thanks yet again, Rude.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)[img][/img]
carolinayellowdog
(3,247 posts)but Republicans less (no surprise), if you judge by the magnitude of the shift
forestpath
(3,102 posts)That about sums it up.
As for asking themselves if this was Bush or Nixon would they still be so blasé about it - reflection and self-awareness isn't their major trait.
mimi85
(1,805 posts)repeating it really isn't necessary. We get the point.
forestpath
(3,102 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)...but this is an apt and deserved description for our current situation.
I will not only recommend this,
but will post a permalink to this rant in every thread on DU that attacks the messenger
in the misguided belief that it somehow helps the Democratic Party or their favorite politician.
[font size=4]The Conservative Bubble
Its not just for Republicans anymore.[/font]
mimi85
(1,805 posts)so I didn't.
kenny blankenship
(15,689 posts)It will slam home at a time of its own choosing.
zeeland
(247 posts)otherwise polite, spot on post. He also managed to accurately do so without
rudely expressing disrespect towards President Obama and the office he holds.
Recent posts on DU rival the disrespect shown by Joe Wilson and other repuke haters.
Or, after raising three sons and accustomed to having a household of adolescent boys,
I'm not easily shocked.
Obama promised transparency in our government, I'm holding him to that promise
maybe above all others.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)and democrats would throw themselves into a wood chipper to defend it. Bless you Rude.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)Cuz I don't give a shit what your name is or how liberal you are...any one else put this shit on DU and the roof would blow the fuck off...that's all I'm saying..
Jay Z sings these lyrics he's the devil incarnate. Hell, Beyonce gets shit for not taking him to task for it....
And like Snowden, Assange, etc, this isn't about me, I didn't say those words.
MADem
(135,425 posts)And I'm the first one to say that I think some of the "outrage" expressed here on DU is OTT, silly and "manufactured" offense. This isn't one of those times, though.
I think the language of that article cited in the OP is just crass and offensive. I don't think this kind of shit has any place on a progressive message board, even in a lame effort to try (fail, but try) to make a -- forgive the expression -- larger point.
TRP may have jumped the shark with this article....how can he top that kind of crap?
Number23
(24,544 posts)I didn't read the OP because I've never enjoyed the Rude Pundit. But this is some absolute garbage. And -- SHOCKINGLY!!-- the recs keep piling up.
Wonder if anyone alerted on this?
MADem
(135,425 posts)It ain't gettin' a rec from me. That's just some nasty shit, IMO.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)timdog44
(1,388 posts)I still don't understand a couple things.
Who has the absolute facts that all this surveillance is happening to "everyone" on "everything"? I have not seen the authoritative person that I absolutely believe that this is happening.
What is the solution? No one has a solution. It sounds to me like the solution I am imagining from everyone who is so hopped up about all this is to just abolish surveillance. Then what. Or if we continue to do surveillance, who is going to oversee it? FISA? Edward Snowden? Glenn Greewald?
And if we do not do surveillance and, like my examples I have given before, the Sears Tower gets blown up, who takes the blame?
And, one more thing. If it turns out we do need surveillance, we need to get those bottom feeding, mercenary scum out of the business. They sell to the highest bidder, and at some point it will be to the "other guy". Like Edward Snowden, unprincipled bottom feeder along with Glenn Greenwald. No moral compass, no patriotism. No big cocks, just little dickheads.
Romulus Quirinus
(524 posts)...the Sears Tower gets blown up, who takes the blame?"
I'm going to say "the people who did it."
timdog44
(1,388 posts)But, and this is a big but, the public would blame Pres Obama for not knowing advance that this was going to happen. "if we had been doing surveillance, we would have stopped this."
So you are of the opinion that we should not do surveillance? And I am not being judgmental here, kind of a unofficial poll. The reason I ask is that no one has come up to the plate with a solution.
Romulus Quirinus
(524 posts)It worked just fine against the Soviet Union.
timdog44
(1,388 posts)from what I understand, that is where it all evolved from. So, I think we need more.
Romulus Quirinus
(524 posts)timdog44
(1,388 posts)that spying, or security, or surveillance has been going on for a long time. Every time something bad happens, "More Spying". I think just pre 2001 levels, we had already evolved to a point where it was intrusive. It was intrusive in the VietNam war era. It was intrusive during Martin Luther King and McCarthy. And even further back. It is almost as if it needs be abandoned altogether. Someone, somewhere in a recent post said that the founding fathers started the country with freedom in mind and that freedom came with the cost of things happening bad to the citizens by outside agents and not inside agents.
Romulus Quirinus
(524 posts)Last edited Sat Jun 15, 2013, 05:33 PM - Edit history (1)
I understand where you're coming from. I don't think that is a profitable way to plan, though.
It's a bit like the old days where people told domestic abuse victims that they should change their behaviour so that they are beaten less. Perhaps it's possible to improve some aspects of life by not antagonizing the abuser, but it isn't the right or just thing to do. I suppose it depends on what metric we use: is being beaten less good enough for us?
BUT, on the other hand, it would demonstrate that reverse growth is possible. As far as I know, the intelligence establishment has never had a sustained period of budget cuts, and demonstrating that it is possible would shift the conversation on what is possible substantially.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)RP is a right wing hack.
Who knew?
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)Sadly, I'm really not sure. I am getting less astute in my old age.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Toe the line or you are a right wing hack seems to be the rule of the day.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)They stone you for that in some places. Hell, they already turned Alan Grayson into a rock pile.
cali
(114,904 posts)and it wasn't even effective.
and no, I'm clearly not easily offended.
Demit
(11,238 posts)I've been reading him for years & the imagery gets pretty rough. For a long time he had an ongoing riff on Cheney & his male sex slave in the basement and yes, he does seem to relish the sexual details. Not my cup of tea either, so I skim thru when it gets too bad, and just get to the point he's making.
mimi85
(1,805 posts)AND a sexist. Nice.
Demit
(11,238 posts)JackHughes
(166 posts)A couple of points worth considering:
It's not like the government is eavesdropping on everyone's private conversations. Incoming and outgoing calls are being logged to collate possible connections with terrorist organizations or foreign intelligence services. It should be noted that since the 1980s every overseas call to and from the US has been monitored by computers to flag keywords like "bomb" and "nuclear." This is nothing new.
The deprivation of 4th Amendment liberties has been much more widespread and "up close and personal" -- and with much more direct impact on people's lives and freedoms -- by local, state and federal cops in pursuit of the so-called "war on drugs."
secondvariety
(1,245 posts)It's a secret, remember? I've said it before-there's no way on Earth someone can collect the traffic records of hundreds of millions of daily phone calls and collate it to a terrorist act. It's merely an excuse for the NSA and it's ilk to get a data base of American citizens' telephone and internet use and probably not for benevolent reasons.
And no, I'm not any more paranoid than most folks-it just stinks and it's not something I expect my Government to do.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)but I couldn't get through the second paragraph to find out.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)I found that difficult to read. I am not complaining about it. I actually think I would agree with the intent just saying I (and no doubt some others) find such language a bit distasteful. To each their own.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)bunnies
(15,859 posts)Shocking, eh?
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)third way losers who also cheered for heritage care and ss cuts and will soon be clapping for the keystone xl. Such people are not liberals, in fact they hate liberals as much as Fox nation does.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,450 posts)we should have had in 2001, 2005, 2007, etc. and then let's decide what we're willing to live with for a safe and free society. I'm simply not getting the vapors over this that some other people are getting over this because at the end of the day, what has been implemented was AFAIK legalized, which, of course, doesn't necessarily make it *right* but instead of lionizing the leaker in this matter (funny how some people complain about people blindly worshipping President Obama but treating Snowden like he's a hero in all of this) why aren't the people upset/opposed to this pushing for Congress to change the laws, put in more safeguards, dismantle some of the "security state" that Bush/Cheney built up in response to 9/11.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)Great post.
polynomial
(750 posts)From my view that narrative was far too sophisticated for a thirteen year old. Likely we have an older gay closet size queen, lighting the flame for controversial action on the blog. Or, a right wing log cabin type abscessed with vaginal probing. Now that said with a laugh and a chuckle however, this notion of saving America through national security is turning into a WTF moment.
One thing that jumps out at me is the idea that a person with a GED at least has the sense or more moral sense than many sophisticated college graduates he might be surrounded with. Snowden at least likely figured a huge list of creeps at the Booz Allen Hamilton Company likely committed some kind of crime. Identity theft or Guerrilla marketing concepts are a heavenly play ground to a former Public Relation or marketing type. Especially getting to do it in secret and get paid for it.
The special caveat here is doing things secretly in the name of national security and get big money for it. That is the kicker, getting big money to essentially frisk everyone they pull from the telephone data banks. Worse are the telephone companies likely have been doing this for a long time.
Just now we have this identity theft stuff surrounding us. With that as a basis for a debate Snowden brought forward a huge corrupted theater in our government that Congressional and Senators are just used to do as routine because the middle class and the poor are opening debate to challenge the issue. Hugely more fun to talk about then gays, abortion, or guns, or unions. Of course Congressional persons should worry for many did participate in programs that went wrong.
Some say this market is worth hundreds of billions dollars in a market that is secret, and is considered just the tip of the ice berg. Ladies and Gentleman of America we are not in a free market with this type of corruption going on unchecked. Snowden is not only a hero; he is a gift to society that is showing all of us what the future is going to be with its new consciousness for having the courage to come forward with this crime of the time.
He is the ultimate Mr. Spock the one sacrificing himself for the many. Or, Snowden is the ultimate Judeo-Christian willing to be crucified, even scaring the hell out of the progressives that have faith. Think about it Mr. Snowden could be a miracle, though he seems a simple type. Or, the man type Joan of Arc burned by the very Constitution that brings him to this earth.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)This:
"See, if Snowden is a misfit toy crossed with Rain Man, how the fuck did he get such a high security clearance? If he was such a loose cannon-in-waiting, why didn't the intelligence apparatus see that in him and not give him the ability to deal with Top Secret material? How good is an intelligence organization that can't successfully vet its workers?"
tavalon
(27,985 posts)I've been feeling a little weird in the last few days with DU fighting (fighting!!??!!!) about this. The Rudester, as per usual, gets it and gives it to us in the basest way possible.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Nine
(1,741 posts)Go ahead and tell me I don't get it, I'm missing the point, blah, blah blah. When a writer uses that kind of imagery, whether or not he made up the joke himself, whether or not he claims to think it's funny, it obliterates any other point that's trying to be made. He might as well have referenced a Holocaust "ovens" joke.
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)RL
Nine
(1,741 posts)There doesn't need to be a competition to see whether rape jokes or holocaust jokes are more disgusting. I think they both qualify for maximum offensiveness.
She gets on the bed and tells him, "Put it in halfway first so I can get used to it." Fuck that, the dude thinks, I'm gonna shove it all in and kill this old lady. So he thrusts it all in, quickly.
If you can't see why the misogyny and violence oozing from those sentences overshadows any other point in the story... I don't even know how to end this sentence. The ugliness of that image should speak for itself.
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)But thank you for reposting part of the joke, I was glad to laugh again, once at the joke, and once at you.
RL