Let me make a prediction: Within the next week or so, it will be revealed

[cali]

that NSA surveillance just stopped a serious and deadly terrorist attack on some event or in some place that scares the shit out of the American people.

They want us scared and compliant. Who is they? The people running these programs, the corporations making big bucks off of them and some in the gov't.

It will be revealed by the government that mass surveillance has staved off numerous attacks over the past few years.

There are powerful forces both within government and outside of it that want to shut this discussion down now. That's why you will never see Snowden prosecuted in a public trial.

[SidDithers]

1. Bookmarking...nt

Sid

[pacalo]

17. You crack me up.

But I'm with cali -- big business is at stake.

[magellan]

33. Nice little racket the DoD has going, isn't it?

They make war, then their dept the NSA secretly "saves" us from the terrorism it creates...and we not only pay for all of this but the services that are giving them our information too.

Capone and Nitti would be green with envy.

[pacalo]

55. Billions of dollars were used to construct a 1M sq. ft. NSA facility

in Utah, & there are satellite facilities in other states.

I suspect that's why the Republicans are angry about the bad publicity -- their anger surely isn't on behalf of Obama. They're crying the loudest, yet they'd like nothing more than to impeach him.

[Puzzledtraveller]

2. You can count on it

It's just like the war on drugs, so is the war on terror, it's business and never ending. How many children today actually know nothing more than that we have ALWAYS been at war against terror?. 1984? You better believe it.

[brooklynite]

3. So the Obama Adminstration will be intentionally lying to us?

or do you subscribe to the "Obama's not really in control of the intelligence community" theory...?

[cali]

6. I didn't say that it would be outright lying

embroidery around the edges, an emphasis on some aspect are possibilities. Yes, I think all administrations twist the facts, reveal partial truths. And I do tend to believe that some cutouts operate outside the President's knowledge.

[Ichingcarpenter]

10. not really in control

is my take.


As Bill Clinton said:



Someone else makes all the decisions



"You know, by the time you become the leader of a country, someone else makes all the decisions. ... You may find you can get away with virtual presidents, virtual prime ministers, virtual everything."
Quote by:


Bill Clinton

Source:
Sep 5, 1998, Dublin, Ireland



Now I want you all to think what he's talking about here
and take what he said literally not to the american people but to Ireland.



JFK wasn't in control of the intelligence community either and wanted them disbanded.

Dulles/CIA pulled shit on Truman
Eisenhower and Kennedy which they didn't have control

Reagan got caught up in their shit too....

[Laelth]

14. Then this is our best chance in a long time to fight back against the spooks.

Don't you think?



-Laelth

[Ichingcarpenter]

23. NSA and Carlyle/NeoCons

It paid $2.54 billion for Booz as a deep recession took hold. Fearing the risks of taking on too much debt in the midst of a financial crisis, Carlyle put up 50 percent cash instead of its normal 30 percent. It borrowed the rest to buy the company, which was then privately held.

Upon the close of the deal, the less profitable international and commercial business was spun off to become Booz & Co., leaving Carlyle with a government-only company.

After the split, the new Booz Allen Hamilton established an incentive-based compensation structure that gave the remaining partners a stake in the firm’s success. In effect, said one person close to the deal who was not authorized to speak publicly, “you got to eat what you killed.”

The incentives helped spur profits.

“Everybody has a responsibility, depending on your title, to bring in a certain amount of business,” said William Loomis, managing director at financial services firm Stifel Nicolaus.

Booz Allen, which employs 24,500, had a net profit of $219 million on revenue of nearly $5.8 billion for the fiscal year ended March 31. For the same period ending in 2010, the year the company went public, the company earned $25 million on $5.1 billion in revenue.

George A. Price Jr., senior equity research analyst for aerospace, defense and government services at BB&T Capital Markets, said “they’ve got a great brand, they’ve focused over time on hiring top people, including bringing on people who have a lot of senior government experience.”



http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/nsa-revelations-put-booz-allen-hamilton-carlyle-group-in-uncomfortable-limelight/2013/06/11/8f4d9138-d2ca-11e2-a73e-826d299ff459_story.html


I find the money trail fascinating and they are also able to illegally mine data ... think of banking trends, Liber etc.








The trick is to keep themselves hidden from view a bit and let others do the bidding for them and have secret agencies to ensure that they remain in power.



"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
- John Lennon

"I spent 33 years in the Marines, most of my time being a high-class muscle man for big business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism."
- General Smedley Butler, War is a Racket (1935)


Yes keep up the good fight

[Laelth]

26. Excellent information. Thanks. n/t

-Laelth

[NorthCarolina]

35. Plausible deniability. nt

[relayerbob]

37. It was no accident that GWHB was VP

... for Reagan after being head of the CIA

[zeemike]

49. And Carter said it too.

When asked by a reporter what surprised him most about being president he said "I am surprised at how little power I have"

We have long been ruled by Oligarchs, but we just don't believe it because we believe the theater we see preformed on the TV.

[Ichingcarpenter]

54. Top Career NSA, CIA etc

Just wink at each new administration and go about their secret little businesses and agendas.

Some may have clearances that even the president doesn't have knowing how to hide secrets for so long.

[pacalo]

18. Take Obama out of the equation. This business venture began with Bush/Cheney.

Too many billions (or trillions) have been invested -- way before Obama came along.

[morningfog]

31. Yes. They will continue to lie to us.

[riqster]

4. CT nt

[randome]

5. We may never see Snowden prosecuted because he is on the run.

After saying "I'm not going to hide" no less.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[DisgustipatedinCA]

21. He said he wasn't hiding his identity. You've just posted his name.

[randome]

36. If so, then I'm wrong.

I just tried to watch the video again but I must have missed it. Do you know where that comes in?

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[randome]

40. Not quite so wrong.

In an interview in Hong Kong today he said "I am not here to hide from justice". So my observation is still valid.

Hong Kong Eddie. LOL!

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Tarheel_Dem]

57. "Hong Kong Eddie"?

Any relation to this guy?

[reformist2]

7. It's a Catch-22 for them. Revealing past successes now will prove they are needlessly secretive.

[pipoman]

8. The reasonable way to battle this

is for Verison to lose 50% of their subscribers overnight...once upon a time, service companies fought overreaching court orders which they believed violated their customers. Verizon should have alerted the media themselves, or fought the subpoena..people should go out and buy tracfones..but alas, the complacency of the American people is at an all time high..couldn't operate without an iphone..

[marions ghost]

15. Wouldn't solve it

not the way to go. The telecom biz is massive and they always win. The people should not have to fight Verizon directly. People won't go with less convenient alternatives.

Policies, laws, regulation, consumer protections. Make them bend to our will with real pressure. Abstinence is unrealistic.

[Democracyinkind]

29. I suspect Verizon profits im some way from this agreement.

[sibelian]

9. Hmmmmm.

That's slightly too overt. They'll need to set up the expectation that the story CAN be changed before changing it. If you're not careful you can confuse and distract people rather than mould their opinions.

I don't think it'll be like that, anyway. If they're watching the way the narrative's unfolding just now they might try something like revealing the use of NSA surveillance to target something tangentially related to terrorism like drug smuggling and ooooh my goodness, it's so cool that we got all these drug smugglers. They will need to be bold now. They will have to specifically address the issues raised, it'll have to change from "we need to get the terrorists to protect you." to something much more overt along the lines of "we need to get the data to control you and you need that" although I'm not sure how they'll phrase it.

[Laelth]

11. You have been doing a lot of research on this matter, it appears.

And I appreciate what you've shared with us here.

As for the political strategy of those who wish to defend the program, I wonder whether the program's proponents can release such information. It's supposed to all be super-secret. I am sure they want to show how beneficial the program has been (if they can, which I doubt), but, if they do, they will blow the whole "this must all be secret or we will tip off the terrorists" argument.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

-Laelth

[Tanuki]

12. ....

[img][/img]

[Raven]

13. What if it is proven that NSA surveillance has stopped

terrorist attacks? Then what?

[randome]

16. Then clearly those attacks were planned for just this eventuality.

I mean, the NSA is playing Nth dimensional chess here.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[temmer]

19. They already claimed it did

but claim is no proof. In most cases it's impossible to prove that an event (terror attack) that didn't happen would have happened without one specific condition (surveillance). Because there are always multiple conditions for an event to occur.

So if they come up with a "proof", give it to a logician.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

47. One governmental excuse for not stopping 9/11 is that you can't get a sip of water out of a

fire hose.

If you can't get a sip of water out of a fire hose, it makes no sense to build a Niagra Falls super-spy-upon-all-Americans project.

Intelligent people who sincerely want to find a needle in a haystack don't keep adding hay to the haystack.

[zeemike]

52. Proven by who?

They are the only one that knows...so sure they will prove it.

That is how secrets work.

[idwiyo]

20. They already did. First with nebulous "helped to prevent terrorist plots", next one was "subway

plot" that was promptly debunked. I am sure there will be some more bullshit shortly.

[ProSense]

22. You're predicting something that has already happened? n/t

[sibelian]

24. So I suppose the subject of the conversation is cali.

Why?

[ProSense]

25. You make no sense. n/t

[sibelian]

30. Ah, the "You make no sense" reflex.

It's a bit twitchy, these days, isn't it?

Try "I can't answer your question".

[AnotherMcIntosh]

48. Well, it's either "You make no sense" or "It's old news and everybody knew about it."

[Buzz Clik]

27. Not much of a prediction, cali. Our law enforcement agencies do this about once a month.

"I predict that, just to scare us with their 'science', the astronomers will make the moon completely disappear within the month."

[BenzoDia]

28. I can see them not revealing anything. It would give leakers a more power if the Government

reveals something everytime something is leaked.

Just a guess. Depends on how desperate they are I suppose.

[morningfog]

32. I predict more lies will be revealed and that the spying is even more extensive.

[Aerows]

38. That's my prediction, too

We'll see.

[jwirr]

34. And like a whole lot of other things they are saying lately - we will not believe them because we

are losing our trust in our own party officials.

[datasuspect]

39. even better:

they'll capture al qaeda number 2.

again.

[bushisanidiot]

41. Sorry, but the surveillance already has stopped terrorist attacks.

Diane Feinstein and another senator were on a Sunday news program outlining
exactly which threats were stopped.

So, you're a little behind.

[bushisanidiot]

43. And then there are the terrorist attacks that have been prevented that they cannot talk about

without giving away what they know to the terrorists they are trying to stop from committing terror.

Look at the movie Argo. Until that movie, I had no idea that President Carter actually FREED hostages in Iran.
He had to keep it quiet and lost the election because the country was under the impression that he didn't
know what he was doing, which was far from the truth. There is so much regarding terrorism that the government
can't tell us for fear it will blow a hole in a plot they are trying to uncover.

I stand with President Obama. I wish more had stood with President Carter in 1980.

[randome]

45. They could do better giving us broad outlines, perhaps, but I agree with you.

They do have a tough job and they are doing it.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[frylock]

59. well someone is a little behind..

NSA surveillance played little role in foiling terror plots, experts say

Obama administration says NSA data helped make arrests in two important cases – but critics say that simply isn't true

<snip>

But court documents lodged in the US and UK, as well as interviews with involved parties, suggest that data-mining through Prism and other NSA programmes played a relatively minor role in the interception of the two plots. Conventional surveillance techniques, in both cases including old-fashioned tip-offs from intelligence services in Britain, appear to have initiated the investigations.

<snip>

Michael Dowling, a Denver-based attorney who acted as Zazi's defence counsel, said the full picture remained unclear as Zazi pleaded guilty before all details of the investigation were made public. But the lawyer said he was sceptical that mass data sweeps could explain what led law enforcement to Zazi.

"The government says that it does not monitor content of these communications in its data collection. So I find it hard to believe that this would have uncovered Zazi's contacts with a known terrorist in Pakistan," Dowling said

<snip>

Davis said that the discovery of the [e-mail] email – and in turn the link to Zazi – had been made by traditional investigative work in the UK. He said the clue-driven nature of the inquiry was significant, as it was propelled by detectives operating on the basis of court-issued warrants.

<more>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/12/nsa-surveillance-data-terror-attack

[JW2020]

42. Coincidently of course, these stories all came out yesterday:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/bomb-threats-richmond-virginia-airport-princeton-university-atlanta-19380521

Bomb Threat Outbreak Shuts Down Airports, Schools
Richmond, Va., airport, Princeton University and Atlanta state capitol were all threatened

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/11/18892497-la-to-texas-flight-diverted-after-bomb-threat?lite

LA-to-Texas flight diverted after bomb threat
By Jeff Black, Staff Writer, NBC News

A Southwest Airlines flight carrying 143 passengers from Los Angeles to Austin, Texas, was diverted and forced to land in Phoenix on Monday evening after a bomb threat was phoned in, officials said.

While the plane was in the air, U.S. F-16 fighter jets were sent to monitor the situation, Michael Kucharek, a spokesman for the joint U.S.-Canadian North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), told Reuters.

Southwest Airlines flight 2675 landed safely in Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport, where passengers were removed from the plane, an airline spokesperson said.

“Out of an abundance of caution, the captain of Southwest Airlines flight 2675, en route from Los Angeles to Austin, safely landed in Phoenix to look into a possible security threat,” the airline said in a statement.

[Le Taz Hot]

44. Bingo!

Gives this administration and Congress cover. It's such a Rovian solution.

[Douglas Carpenter]

46. that's a prediction that does not require psychic skills

[cali]

56. you are so right. I have no psychic skills so I tend to make predictions

rooted in history and reality.

[n2doc]

50. NSA surveillance played little role in foiling terror plots, experts say

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/12/nsa-surveillance-data-terror-attack

[WovenGems]

51. The real question

Why all hoopla now and not back in the seventies when NSA started? Or since then? Its mission is no different now.
The answer to that question could be interesting.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

53. Let me make a prediction: there will be a diversion with a call for greater "gun control" that will

rally some of the-government-can-do-no-wrong-if-we-are-afraid types.

It doesn't have to be a call for meaningful reform to focus upon mental health issues or stopping the early release of violent criminals who have used guns in their criminal activities. It doesn't have to be a meaningful call for legislation that would be rationally related to a goal of reducing unnecessary gun violence. It doesn't even have to be a call for legislation that could be passed with the support of all Democrats or most Democrats.

All it has to be is a call for "gun control" with a few emotional words so that some will respond by saying such things as "gun nuts," "NRA talking points," "assault rifles," "automatic pistols," "cop-killer bullets." Anything to bring out the emotional reaction of those who are easily swayed by emotional words when they are afraid or want to "do it for the children."

For those who want to do something "for the children," they can stay focused upon the Niagra-Falls-spy-upon-all-Americans programs.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

58. The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. H.L. Mencken

[Douglas Carpenter]

60. Surveillance programs have stopped 'dozens' of terror attacks, NSA chief says

The Patriot Act provision that allowed the National Security Agency to collect phone records has helped thwart "dozens" of terror events, Gen. Keith Alexander said Wednesday at a congressional hearing on cybersecurity.

Alexander promised that records showing the secret surveillance program was critical to disrupting terrorist plots will be made public within a week.

Read more at:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/06/12/live-updates-cybersecurity-hearing/#liveblog-entry-46364