WAIT!!!!!!!!!! That lying SOB worked for Booz Allen Hamilton, the Carlyle-owned group?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

I'm referring to DNI and liar James Clapper, of course, and responding to those who were demonizing Snowden on the basis of him working for a Carlyle-owned company.

[leveymg]

1. Nice Judo maneuver - I do believe you're right they were among Clapper's past employers

[ucrdem]

2. Clapper isn't ratfucking.

Big difference.



(oops, typo)

[DisgustipatedinCA]

4. You'll need to define ratfucking if you want a response

Not really sure I want to know, but be my guest if you'd like.

[ucrdem]

11. Ratfucking is the term of art for GOP dirty tricks used to demoralize Democrats

coined by Nixon campaign operative Donald Segretti. Typically it involves false or grossly distorted accusations coming from a disguised source, like a Dem candidate's stolen letterhead, or SBVT. The idea is to sow confusion among voters and make the Dem candidate look bad by having to deal with a lot of ginned up dirt. Swiftboating in other words. Good discussion by DU member freshwest here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2789308

[Hekate]

16. Accurate response. I'm surprised that anyone is unaware of the term by now...

... but that might be an age thing.

Segretti -- God, just when I forget how very much I hated Richard Nixon, something like this comes up to remind me.

[ucrdem]

19. Thanks, I wish there were a more DU-friendly term but nothing really comes close.

And if someone doesn't know what it means, "ratfucking" sounds like a personal insult, though it isn't. I was on a jury this morning on a post that used the term and the verdict was 3-3, fortunately, but using it is always risky because a lot of people here misunderstand it. One of the jurors offered flamebaiting as an alternative, which is similar, but ratfucking is ratfucking and it's how the Bush league wins elections.

[Hekate]

22. Swiftboating is as loathsome, but is actually a different technique from rf'ing

Maybe we could call ratfucking rf'ing, but somehow it lacks that loathsomeness of the original term and its execution. I shudder to think what the smiley would look like.

[ucrdem]

25. rf'ing is good.

Noted.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

20. Thanks.

Now that I know what a ratfucker is, will you go ahead and explain how the GOP is using Snowden for their rodent sex? You made a declarative statement for which you have no backing. It's fine as an opinion, but you shouldn't try to sell it as though you have some affirmation of this.

[ucrdem]

21. Okay here's a little more elaboration, with links:

Pardon the recycling but I just typed this in another thread:

This type of manufactured "scandal" is pure GOP ratfuck, the transparent purposes of which are to a) handicap Obama in every way possible, in this case by undermining his position in last weekend's US-China summit, and b) discourage swing voters from supporting Democrats in 2014. And that's worth pointing out and making a stink about, IMHO.


And here are two links to show that Obama was, in fact, handicapped during the US-China summit:

NSA Scandal Looms Over Obama-Xi Talks
by Ari Shapiro | NPR | June 08, 2013 5:25 AM

President Obama always intended to talk about spying this weekend. But not like this.

He's at a sprawling estate in the Southern California desert this weekend, getting to know China's new leader, but domestic controversies have followed him there.

The president veered off his talking points Friday to spend more than ten minutes defending a pair of massive surveillance operations that the media recently disclosed.

(snip)

Some members of Obama's own party are now attacking him for overreaching, and civil liberties groups are comparing him unfavorably to President George W. Bush. So Obama was feeling the heat before he took off for to Palm Springs.


(snip)

Xi and his entourage are not sleeping in the guest rooms, though. The Chinese delegation decided to stay at a hotel nearby out of fear that the U.S. might be spying on them. . .

http://www.npr.org/2013/06/08/189724905/nsa-scandal-looms-over-obama-xi-talks

US-China summit ends with accord on all but cyber-espionage
The Guardian, Sunday 9 June 2013 04.48 EDT

Obama's meeting with Xi overshadowed by revelations of NSA's snooping – but deals are made on N Korea and HFCs emissions

The Chinese contrition over cyber-attacks that Washington had hoped for failed to materialise, but historic talks between presidents Obama and Xi Jinping lived up to their billing in other regards with agreement on issues ranging from climate change to North Korea.

Meeting in the baking heat of a Palm Springs country estate, the two leaders broke with protocol for two days of informal talks aimed at creating a new spirit of co-operation between the world's two economic superpowers.

The common ground they found, however, was not quite what the White House expected as talks on cyber-espionage were overshadowed by revelations of Washington's own cyberwarfare strategy.

Both leaders discussed the issue for several hours, according to aides, but the best that the US was able to boast afterwards was that Beijing was no longer unaware of the depth of feeling on the subject.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/us-china-summit-barack-obama-xi-jinping

[DisgustipatedinCA]

23. This still doesn't say anything about this being a GOP operation.

Sure, they'll score as many political points as possible, but that doesn't mean they're running Snowden as some sort of agent or patsy.

Also, do you think the Chinese would have trusted the US on matters of cybersecurity, which was the scheduled topic du jour long before Snowden came along?

[ucrdem]

26. The China connection is very strange.

Snowden is ratfucking in Hong Kong while Xi is in Palm Springs. Meanwhile Obama is dodging bullets in Santa Monica and the summit is a washout.

p.s. "GOP" is basically a euphemism for the Halliburton gang.

[Hekate]

28. That's it all right. From the depths of Hell, Nixon is laughing his ass off.

And from a comfy den somewhere in the US, Dick Cheney is toasting Karl Rove.

Legitimated discussions about legitimate privacy issues in the US have been derailed. The POTUS is embarrassed and handicapped at a major summit meeting with Not-Our-Friend China. Congressional malfeasance continues. Food stamp budgets have been slashed, and they don't get a mention on the cable tv machine. Mission accomplished.

[ucrdem]

29. Yep. Mission accomplished.

Just like it is every time they pull this. Rare is the pol who can survive it but Obama is one of those rare pols and praise be for that.

[napoleon_in_rags]

30. Here's the thing with this one though.

It isn't birth certificate, Benghazi or any of the rest. DUers have been saying for years and years that the response to terrorism, from the Iraq war, to the VAST domestic security apparatus, is misguided overkill. The leaked stuff, unlike the birth certificate cover-up is really happening, all involved have admitted it, and are using it as an argument against Snowden for the damage of the leaks. So the policy stance DUers are taking here is exactly what we've ALWAYS taken, and the accusations made about the scope of the intelligence gathering are confirmed. So if there's a ratfuck here, it doesn't involve us being deceived in any fundamental way.

[ucrdem]

31. It's the timing that's the ratfuck.

Obama got forked at the worst possible moment and we'll probably be hearing about his "horrible negotiating skills" for the rest of his term.

[napoleon_in_rags]

32. Is that what motivated the timing of the leak?

Or was it the Bradley Manning trial at the exact same time? The latter would be consistent with the whistle blowers agenda.

I don't think this is going to come down that hard on just Obama. Rove is defending the program, Fox is trying to bundle it with Benghazi for a "package deal" they hope people will buy, and Rand Paul is speaking against it, with the credit of Ron Paul having spoken out about the same stuff during the Bush years. The polls are reporting a 56/44 split, with the majority in favor of the program. (though the question: what do you think of the NSA spying on our telephone calls, in a telephone poll seems like it might effect some people's answers.) But the main thing is, the vast majority of the news I see is reporting the facts; the years of history the program has. People are seeing this, and opposing in terms of the long view.

[ucrdem]

35. I think so.

Manning is basically another ratfuck and the GOP would probably have been harping on that if the China summit hadn't come along. The poll results are interesting, thanks. What's happened clearly is that the Bush-Cheney warrantless wiretapping scandal has been pinned on Obama who had nothing to do it. Dem-washing you might call it. But now Obama owns it and the Bush league inches ever closer to an Oval office comeback.

[frylock]

24. well shit, obama is fucked for his third term then..

what can we do to ensure his re-reelection?

[ucrdem]

27. Hell I'd vote for him.

But I'm talking about 2014 which could be disastrous.

[davidpdx]

33. Oh why would 2014 matter

[Hissyspit]

36. Yes, we know. There is always another election we have to shut up for.

[kenny blankenship]

3. Lying to Congress is illegal. He should be tracked down, brought in and have to face justice

[WillyT]

5. You Mean THIS:

DULink: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022981071

Or THIS: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022982678

To name a few...





& Rec !!!

[DisgustipatedinCA]

7. Oops...I hadn't seen your earlier thread. Sorry about that.

[WillyT]

9. Not A Problem... The More The Merrier...

[Cali_Democrat]

6. I don't think who owns Booz Allen Hamilton is relevant in this situation n/t

[DisgustipatedinCA]

8. tell it to the spying apologists ranting about it on several threads

[Cali_Democrat]

14. OK. n/t

[MrMickeysMom]

10. It's not so much "who's working for", but who's ON the board of directors

Booze Allen Hamilton workers are one thing. These boards of directors ... They're all getting paid for letting all this dirty stuff happen within the intelligence agencies.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

15. I agree with you. This was in response to someone positing that...

Snowden was working on behalf of the Carlyle Group in order to smear the President. I thought it was absurd, so I responded in kind. Thanks.

[MrMickeysMom]

17. I think it was absurd, too.

for the record...

[reformist2]

12. Funny how the lynch mob going after Snowden doesn't care about lying to Congress...

[kenny blankenship]

18. But lying to Congress is PERJURY. Don't they care about the LAW???

Last edited Tue Jun 11, 2013, 12:49 AM - Edit history (2)

Perjury committed for the most trivial of reasons is still a serious felony. From wikipedia: "Perjury is considered a serious offense as it can be used to usurp the power of the courts, resulting in miscarriages of justice. In the United States, for example, the general perjury statute under Federal law classifies perjury as a felony and provides for a prison sentence of up to five years."

Perjuring yourself before Congress to cover up a conspiracy against the Constitution is a serious crime of state. In its usual sense, perjury "usurps the power of the courts", it thwarts and takes away from the Judge the jury and the officers of the court their lawful authority to discover the truth, and by altering the outcome of a case, it perverts the course of justice. Perjury before Congress though, usurps the people's representatives' lawful right to the truth which is necessary for the proper creation and oversight of government policy. Lying to Congress, and doing so in the question of a conspiracy to violate the Constitution, thus perverts the course of government and usurps the people's right to their democracy itself, along with whatever specific Constitutional rights the underlying conspiracy was aimed at.
Oh what a tangled web, huh?

[sabrina 1]

13. Yes, a lot of interesting things have been uncovered today. The revolving door, from Booz Allen

which get multi BILLION dollar contracts from the government for 'security' then appointed to Director of Intelligence, where surely he would not have any conflict of interest and we can totally trust his 'Security' Corporation with our RIGHTS. This stinks more and more even without the leaks.

[davidpdx]

34. This is the march toward impeachment, the right has already said they want it

Now the left is pissed off. Whether anything is true or not doesn't matter anymore. Bengazi-gate, IRS-gate, NSA-gate, etc. I suspect before the 4th of July there will be a new one. I've been saying since last year that impeachment will happen if Obama is reelected.