What similarities do the SS/chained CPI and the NSA story have in common?

[stupidicus]

I'd say most of them are to be found in the reactions to them -- outrage running headlong into denials, kinda like that proverbial irresistable force meeting the immovable object.

I suspect the outcome will likely be the same as well in terms of this debate. The irresistable force, fueled by reality, will move what was once thought to be immovable, and here's why.

http://epic.org/2013/06/epic-to-congress-verizon-surve-1.html

and because there's no reason to be dishonest or to even attempt to mislead unless one has something to hide.

Mr. Wyden and Mr. Udall have for months been raising concerns that the government has secretly interpreted a part of the Patriot Act in a way that they portray as twisted, allowing the Federal Bureau of Investigation to conduct some kind of unspecified domestic surveillance that they say does not dovetail with a plain reading of the statute.

The dispute has focused on Section 215 of the Patriot Act. It allows a secret national security court to issue an order allowing the F.B.I. to obtain “any tangible things” in connection with a national security investigation. It is sometimes referred to as the “business records” section because public discussion around it has centered on using it to obtain customer information like hotel or credit card records.

But in addition to that kind of collection, the senators contend that the government has also interpreted the provision, based on rulings by the secret national security court, as allowing some other kind of activity that allows the government to obtain private information about people who have no link to a terrorism or espionage case.

Justice Department officials have sought to play down such concerns, saying that both the court and the intelligence committees know about the program. But the two lawmakers contended in their letter that officials have been misleading in their descriptions of the issue to the public.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/22/us/politics/justice-dept-is-accused-of-misleading-public-on-patriot-act.html?_r=0

The issue being debated here is whether a legal/constitutional, and otherwise proper balance has been struck between civil liberties and national security, and given that the latter is the higher priority for BHO, it occurs to me that lines being crossed or smudged a tad from being stepped/slipped on (accidently of course) is likely as a result. And even if that is not the case, that hardly makes the policy desirable to many anyway, and is no doubt likely what is being hidden. The only thing I haven't figured out yet is where all this "this is nothing new" stuff is coming from. Maybe Jameel has it all wrong,

But even in the unlikely case that the government never eavesdrops on the wrong people, the cost to civil liberties is still too high. The tiny chance of a useful match cannot justify collecting everyone’s phone records, or running searches on millions of e-mail messages and Internet chats.

As Jameel Jaffer, deputy legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union, put it today, imagine if the government required every American to report to the government every night who they spoke to, or texted, for how long, and from where. People would be furious, but that’s precisely the information the N.S.A. is collecting from telecom companies. And it’s precisely why the government desperately wanted to keep the practice a secret.

But now the world knows what many members of Congress have kept buttoned up for years. Will Democrats stick to their principles and criticize President Obama for perpetuating a practice that began under President George W. Bush? And will Republicans, happy to find something new to stimulate anger against the White House, demand actual change in a program they defended for years?

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/whats-the-purpose-of-the-n-s-a-surveillance-program/

it does seem to be a bit odd that they'd be going after a whistleblower that simply shared common knowledge too.

As I understand it, BHO welcomes this debate, and he will likely be compelled in the days and weeks to come, to give us that oppose this stuff much the same bizness

Relying incessantly on drone strikes and other means to kill whomever the U.S. government decides are terrorists and their “associated forces” is endless war by other means. The president’s speech was less about a real shift and more about indefinitely extended hostilities framed in a way that normalizes and institutionalizes them.
Read more: http://www.utne.com/politics/obamas-speech-antiwar-movement.aspx#ixzz2VmcZMChC

but have no fear -- only those with something to hide need fear the ride from big brother. One can quibble about the source, question asked, etc, but there it is http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/june_2013/59_oppose_government_s_secret_collecting_of_phone_records It would appear that the public opinion is not moving in the desired direction for some.

Here's to hoping that the continuation of these policies becomes as popular as chained CPI did -- people rejecting it in sufficient numbers over what it is they're losing for what it is they're getting for the loss. That would be austerity and a compelled sense of compliance respectively. Seniors didn't vote for or ask to have their checks cut, much as many of us didn't vote for or ask to have our lives recorded.

Meanwhile the cries to "Hang all Snowedmen" will contininue, which was kinda the sentiment many held for those who wrote/spoke the heresy that BHO intended to put chained CPI on the table.

[treestar]

1. What redundancies can we mention again?

These are totally different things; one involved legislative negotiating and the other involves a law already passed.

[stupidicus]

4. thanks for the insight

but I don't recall claiming otherwise.

[graham4anything]

2. there is only one thing that is the same is the pile on against the President by those with angles

in the media and the beltway and the Bush/Paul family

[Fumesucker]

3. "Hillary is a monster" -Samantha Power, Obama's designate for UN Ambassador

[stupidicus]

5. In other words

anyone who has long had objections to the WOT and some if not all of the various means by which it has been waged is either in the media, is a beltway member, or a member of the Bush/Paul family?

I find that to be a rather odd assertion, given the dozens if not hundreds I know or know of that don't belong to any of those things, nor are they politically aligned with the Bushbots or Paulites.

I suppose that may serve you well as a __________, but it really is more than a tad unrealistic, particularly the Bush/Paul thing, given that this is about the only issue I might find some agreement with that camp over. It also occurs to me that he and Bush are all if not totally diametrically opposed on such issues.

so it's unclear to me why you'd connect the two.