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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI just left the Democratic party over NSA spying
I will support no party that supports the evisceration of the 4th Amendment. I won't volunteer, I won't contribute, until the rank and file of the party opposes and ends this practice, don't bother calling me.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)...that sarcasm thingy?
TYY
theaocp
(4,247 posts)Enjoy a smaller tent. I'm awaiting your next snide remark with bated breath.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)..and dismissing loyal Democrats with traditional Democratic Values of protecting our Constitutional Rights?
...and we wonder HOW the Democratic Party became so Conservative.
[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Sorry, but I won't support this policy. It was wrong when the Bush administration was going this way, and it's wrong now.
As far as I'm concerned, it's always going to be wrong. We are violating policies and understandings that arose out of the concern over the J Edgar Hoover FBI excesses and the like. If that was wrong, this is wrong.
With each administration, the screw tightens again. It's unnecessary. We are letting the political culture morph us into a totally different society.
When you give the government this power, it will be misused sooner or later. Generally sooner. And with each step over the line, the line moves. I personally thought that Obama's election was going to push back against this. I was wrong.
I'm not going to accept it.
brush
(53,949 posts)Didn't that reporter Rosen out an operative that had managed to become a mole in North Korea, an almost impenetrable country, and the people working with the agent were also exposed, as was the whole operation?
There was more to it than the big bad Obama monitoring call logs. Lives and to a degree, national security were involved. The reporter's hands are not clean on this as journalists know not to cross certain lines when it comes to these kinds of stories. Apparently the desire for a scope was more important thing to that particular reporter.
I don't see much difference between what Libby and Cheney did to Valery Plame and this.
Perhaps our outrage is misdirected.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Unless the new response to a leak within the administration is to get the phone records of everyone in the country.
That's ridiculous.
No, the only thing wrong with our outrage is that we haven't already hit the streets and marched to DC and demanded an end to this.
If the FISA courts will issue warrants for everyone's information, then the FISA courts are no protection at all. This did start under Bush, but we're doubling down.
brush
(53,949 posts)There's got to be someway that covert operations aren't disclosed by scoop-seeking reporters.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Really, THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)to a huge surveillance state. SOS IMO, just different names/faces.
movonne
(9,623 posts)rights and no abortions....
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)I believe we can get 'em in office.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,246 posts)the "Liberal" purity test back in 2000, now he's celebrated as as Liberal lion. I think smart Democrats have caught on to the fact that there's a faction of the left who have strenuously been trying to bust up the Democratic Party since Ralph Nader's efforts. Of course they can't win, but their chief goal seems to be to stop Democrats from winning.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)It's Congress. Under our system, it's Congress that has the most power.
I don't see why anyone would think that arguing a point of view about policy would or should imply busting up the Democratic party. No, popular input determines the policy positions of the Democratic party, as well it should for a party named "Democratic".
Looking at something and saying "no, I don't think this is a good idea" is not disloyalty to the party. It's part of the process necessary to sustain a viable party.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Was a life-long Republican voter until 1995.
fjlovato
(29 posts)Maybe she learned to read since then and became a Democrat or the Republican Party left her. There used to be real honest Republicans - I remember them real well.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)you would have a point.
But he hasn't.
Chaffe hasn't had an epiphany of an evolution.
I don't know much about Warren pre-1995,
but it is a safe bet that she wasn't FOR tough Banking Regulation..
Enlighten us all.
Where has Chaffe evolved and abandoned his Republican Values to embrace the Liberal values of FDR or LBJ?
OR
has the Democratic Party taken ANOTHER step to the Conservative Right to accommodate ANOTHER Republican
who NOW feels right at home in the New Democrat Centrist Party?
[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]
Vietnameravet
(1,085 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Never use that term.
It invokes images of a mouthful of worms.
Rowdyboy
(22,057 posts)i.e. "bated breath"
Bay Boy
(1,689 posts)...baited-breath. I know that because I am a master-baiter.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,246 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)enough to leave? It's something to poke fun at and laugh about?
So, you support warrantless wiretapping?
Tarheel_Dem
(31,246 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,246 posts)proud of it?
cui bono
(19,926 posts)asked of you.
And, if I am wrong about something then correct it and have a discussion, if that's what you want. But I don't think that is what you want, you just want to be snarky, clearly. You came into this thread acting like a junior high school kid who just found the internet and how to post comments. You laugh about something that is of the utmost importance for the continuance of democracy, something that is basically a police state, and then just continue to throw out snark rather than discuss anything.
So clearly there's no point to any of this. I just hope you will realize how important this topic is before it's too late for all of us.
Logical
(22,457 posts)And you would post 100 cryptic links to reasons it was a great plan!
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)would be links to her own posts
Logical
(22,457 posts)bbinacan
(7,047 posts)rightsideout
(978 posts)All this NSA spying started in 2006 during the Bush Administration under the Patriot Act.
But true, Obama should have kicked the rubber stamp in the gutter.
chillfactor
(7,587 posts)as far back as Joe McCathy and J.Edgar Hoover....
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)I was associated with the intel community in the 70's and No Such Agency in the 80's and it was going on before that.
bluemarkers
(536 posts)no matter what party would ever reduce his/her powers?
This is the perfect illustration of how Congress is full of short sighted dumbasses. Apparently not one arrogant goper realized that one day a Democrat might be president, or that one day democrats may control both houses.
(imo, Hoover's paranoia is a lasting legacy.)
cstanleytech
(26,342 posts)they could either tempt them into continuing the use of the program and or hinder any efforts to stop the program.
And to be honest logs of who has called who isnt a really big issue for me, the thing I object to is actual recording of conversations I had or private text messages as those should require a warrant and or the person or persons involved should be notified about the warrant immediately or at most within 90 days of such a warrant being granted.
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)("The Ranger's not gonna like this, Yogi."
The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) was introduced on May 18, 1977, by Senator Ted Kennedy and was signed into law by President Carter in 1978. The bill was cosponsored by the nine Senators: Birch Bayh, James O. Eastland, Jake Garn, Walter Huddleston, Daniel Inouye, Charles Mathias, John L. McClellan, Gaylord Nelson, and Strom Thurmond.
The FISA resulted from extensive investigations by Senate Committees into the legality of domestic intelligence activities. These investigations were led separately by Sam Ervin and Frank Church in 1978 as a response to President Richard Nixons usage of federal resources to spy on political and activist groups, which violates the Fourth Amendment.[4] The act was created to provide Judicial and congressional oversight of the government's covert surveillance activities of foreign entities and individuals in the United States, while maintaining the secrecy needed to protect national security. It allowed surveillance, without court order, within the United States for up to one year unless the "surveillance will acquire the contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party". If a United States person is involved, judicial authorization was required within 72 hours after surveillance begins.
---- snip -----
The Act created the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) and enabled it to oversee requests for surveillance warrants by federal police agencies (primarily the F.B.I.) against suspected foreign intelligence agents inside the U.S. The court is located within the Department of Justice headquarters building. The court is staffed by eleven judges appointed by the Chief Justice of the United States to serve seven year terms.
Proceedings before the FISA court are ex parte and non-adversarial. The court hears evidence presented solely by the Department of Justice. There is no provision for a release of information regarding such hearings, or for the record of information actually collected.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act
cui bono
(19,926 posts)What you bolded shows that they signed into law something that allowed spying without a warrant, but what you failed to include in that bolding, which follows immediately, is " unless the "surveillance will acquire the contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party". If a United States person is involved, judicial authorization was required within 72 hours after surveillance begins."
Still not the best, but not what your out of context bolding suggests.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)And if Grayson were POTUS I think he would. And probably Elizabeth Warren. And if they were threatened to not do so, or do certain things, I think they would take that to the people.
nebenaube
(3,496 posts).
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)illegal. THAT law was violated by Bush when it was revealed that he had used the telecoms to spy on the American people. A whistle blower revealed that crime and it was a big scandal at the time with most Democrats, including this president, condemning it.
For a short while we thought something good might come of the exposure and the reaction even among Conservatives at the time. The Telecoms were in trouble, the law required eg, that if the law was violated they would have to compensate the victims with $1,000 if I am remembering correctly and of course people began to prepare law suits.
But unfortunately, Congress came to the rescue. They passed the FISA Bill which was retroactive, back to before the crime was committed, making warrantless 'surveillance' legal, at least no need to get a warrant until LATER, after the spying was done.
So no, it does not go all the way back to the McCarthy era. We learned something from Nixon's spying and back then Congress and even a Republican president saw fit to try to stop it by passing a fairly decent law.
We have deteriorated rapidly since the Bush years and our hopes of having his 'laws' rescinded by electing Democrats have been proven to have been very naive. Obama, who once opposed the Telecom spying, ended up voting for the FISA Bill.
It is now up to the people to decide, is this the kind of country they want or is it not? I see democrats here now defending what they once opposed. But how do the majority of people feel about their telephone companies spying on them? We will soon find out.
Ari Fleischer congratulated Obama tonight for 'protecting the American people'. No doubt very pleased to see his boss's disastrous policies validated by a Democratic Administration. Paul Begala otoh, expressed shock that Obama, who he correctly stated was once 'completely opposed to such policies' now supports them. He stated that he would like to hear an explanation from Obama. I think he forgot that Obama voted for that vile piece of legislation. Can't say I blame him, it was something we all tried to forget.
Wait Wut
(8,492 posts)But, this is still Democratic Underground.
I will still support Democrats. I will still vote for, volunteer for, donate to Democrats. There are other web sites available for nonDemocrats.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)FSogol
(45,570 posts)quinnox
(20,600 posts)and have been here for a long time, so am aware of this stuff. I like to correct the misrepresentation that many seem to have, or pretend to have in threads like this, that you must be a Democrat to post at DU. It never has been the case, at least, ever since 2002, when I first joined.
FSogol
(45,570 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Democrats and have never cast a Democratic vote. Would you refuse them participation?
FSogol
(45,570 posts)quinnox
(20,600 posts)I doubt it.
FSogol
(45,570 posts)But I guess, you'd have to take that up with the admins.
frylock
(34,825 posts)i'm registered as 'decline to state' myself.
FSogol
(45,570 posts)When did I say anything about greens, independents, etc?
frylock
(34,825 posts)that the only people posting here were either democrats or republicans. I apologize if I misinterpreted you.
FSogol
(45,570 posts)Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)That's attacking.
FSogol
(45,570 posts)Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)And what you do when you question people's motives/loyalties/etc. is anything but friendly.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Those who happen not to agree with you? Those who mostly have tried to hold our party accountable to a standard of behavior that is higher than what we witnessed in the Bush years?
roody
(10,849 posts)for 10 years.
cprise
(8,445 posts)After the 2000 vote fiasco, I realized the Gore team's defence was half-hearted. Then Dems lined up for the Iraq War and that was too much for me. The Greens were holding anti-war rallies and that's when I started to (strategically) vote for them.
Funny thing is, I remember one day in 2000 getting screamed at (in a LGBT gathering in a restaurant) by a rather fine Green lady for suggesting everyone throw their support behind Al Gore. By 2002 I had finally "got it".
Eddie Haskell
(1,628 posts)Fewer everyday.
BainsBane
(53,093 posts)It's quite clear on the matter.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)This isn't rocket science.
BainsBane
(53,093 posts)If not to say he won't be voting for Democrats? Many states don't even have party registration. The OP is in MO, which does not have party registration.
I don't see why people can't discuss their outrage over the issue without engaging in hyperbole about impeaching Obama, Obama being Hitler or the same as Bush, etc. . . It doesn't further discussion of the issue or seek solutions. It's simply histrionics.
canoeist52
(2,282 posts)LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)How is a website going to tell someone who to vote for at a voting booth! Are you serious here?
BainsBane
(53,093 posts)It sets the terms for membership on the site, which is built around the Democratic Party. TOS describes who is eligible to post here.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)to define Democrat for me. I think I've maybe lost my way.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)A "Lets make excuses for B.O. on NSA Democrat" means that you agree full-heartily with being suspected as a terrorist, regardless of not engaging in any actions to be defined as a terrorist, because Barack Obama's NSA says its A-Okay.
For me, I'm not that type of blind sheep Democrat and have no problem questioning Republicans or Democrats when their actions are dead wrong!!
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)obama2terms
(563 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)and ran with them. So I choose to stand for the Democratic Party's purported principle's and not for a man who does not enact them. Unfortunately there are too many on here who stand for a man who is putting the Dem Party principles into a coffin.
So who are the real Dems? I know the answer and it's not a trick question.
whopis01
(3,529 posts)The TOS quite clearly States that during non election season times, such as now, "members are permitted to post strong criticism or disappointment with our Democratic elected officials, or to express ambivalence about voting for them"
That seems to be what the op is doing to me.
BainsBane
(53,093 posts)He has said he has left the party. Others have compared Obama to Hitler and George Bush, and we have threads calling for impeachment. It's histrionics.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)on prosecuting whistleblowers. So how is comparing him to Bush histrionics?
Tarheel_Dem
(31,246 posts)do you even know what a "warrant" is, and who issues them?
cui bono
(19,926 posts)actually being discussed. Answer my questions and then perhaps I'll think about answering yours.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,246 posts)I really don't think much can be gleaned from you, but I think the first step in any debate should be a basic understanding of the charges you're leveling, and clearly you don't posses that understanding.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)If I'm wrong about something then the next step is for you to correct that. All you do is make immature comments. You're not looking for a debate or a discussion, that is very clear.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,246 posts)You've made that claim all over this board. You still haven't convinced me, or anyone else, that you actually know what you're talking about.
Let's make this easy. I won't ask you for facts, since you seem incapable of that, but let's opine for a moment. I think there's a serious debate to be had around the issue of metadata collection, but you do know that it's "legal", right? You do know that all three branches of our government participated, right? You do know that no future president is going to cut him/herself off at the knees by using any available powers to prevent an attack on his/her watch, right?
And while we're opining, one can admire what Snowden did, and still think he should spend a hefty amount of time in prison for it. And further, don't you think it a bit ironic that an American whistleblower who says that he can't live in a country where his activities might be monitored, would choose fuckin' China? Do you know what irony is, or should I explain it to you? He fled to a country where the state owns the media, and that state has been accused of hacking into American businesses, news agencies, and even our own Dept of Defense. Now, why would he do that unless he's of some value to the Chinese government? I think this is where the discussion will go once the initial fervor dies down, as it always does.
YeahSureRight
(205 posts)But it makes people feel good about themselves thinking that it actually is an enforceable rule.
I look at it this way if Bernie Sanders ran for POTUS against say against Hillary in 16, there would be very little support for Hillary here until her supporters were able to kick all the non Hillary supporters out of DU.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)I screamed like I was stabbed in the scrotum about it
to all the admins
and was told that since meek (the winner of the florida DEMOCRATIC primary and legitimate DEMOCRATIC PARTY candidate) "was unlikely to win"
that 3rd party support for Crist was OK
and I was shouted down almost exclusively in posts and replies by many of these same people now demanding party loyalty
3rd party campaigns were defended by many of the same people now demanding DU ban members for any discussions about anything other than the Democratic Party
its disgusting
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)Of course no one would say it was because Charlie was the White guy. And of course, people are embracing him because the only other choice is Alex Sink, who folded to Rick Scott so well that the GOP could not have trained her better.
I can accept people who dislike Obama because he was not liberal enough, but I will be damned if I do not smell a lot of the same people that hated him for day one because he dared get in the way of St. Hillary Clinton. A lot of people who hate him now are the same people that will demand the head of any democrat to the left of Hillary!
Ter
(4,281 posts)All others are Democrats, but this one independent was a local race?
BainsBane
(53,093 posts)I'm just pointing out that Quinnox's point about there not being a requirement you be a Democrat to post here is inaccurate. I'm sure there is no problem with what you describe unless you advocate for that independent on DU during election season. But that's only my guess based on reading the TOS and watching what went on during the last election.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)I am definitely not the only foreigner on DU. Never mind there are a lot of DU members who are registered Independent, Green, etc. and they never tried to hide their Party membership.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)usregimechange
(18,373 posts)demosincebirth
(12,549 posts)still_one
(92,482 posts)Understand that does not mean I agree with the sentiments of the OP, however, for each of us we should do it person by person instead of grouping all into one.
For instance, if social security is privatized, why would I support any Democrat who voted for it?
I will go a step further, which may not be wise, however, it is a hypothetical
If a race was between moderate to progressive republican, verses a hard right tea party democrat, I would vote for the republican
That may be herasy, but it is my view that in the hypothetical the republican is more democratic than the democrat
Of course I cannot think of a situation where that would apply, since the repukes have effectively eliminated most moderates from their party
secondwind
(16,903 posts)zeemike
(18,998 posts)You go underground when you can't live above ground.
I'm wondering where the OP was in 2006-07 during the Bush Administration under the Patriot Act.
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)usregimechange
(18,373 posts)Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)We still revere them. The Repugs cannot say the same about Ike, TR or even Reagan or Goldwater!
dflprincess
(28,089 posts)but when was the last time you heard a Democratic office holder say it was time to pass FDR's second bill of rights? Instead we have a president who plays games with Social Security.
When I joined DU I was still very active in the DFL but over the last 10 years or so I've gotten more and more disgusted with the party both at a state and national level. I still occassionly show up for a district meeting just to keep track of local politics.
I only donate to candidates I like and I won't give the party (national or state), the DSCC or DCCC a dime.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)do everything they can to distance themselves from those pictured.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)of the newbies IMO don't know the difference ... they never lived/experienced those times, so often the status quo seems just fine to them.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)rather than looking at what is actually happening.
Look at how many on Du that defend actions that are the exact opposite of the Dem Party principles? And then they tell those fighting for those principles they can leave if they don't like it, that the Dem party is just where they like it and they don't need progressives so we can just f-off. They literally say that on here.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)to have not studied much history IMO.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)and they don't have much else, short of jack-booted thugs, as an argument. They are, of course, working on that.
But I think they gravely underestimate the level of anger when people, like now, realize the extent of the assault and what they have been conned, over and over again, into supporting.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)"In digital era, privacy must be a priority. Is it just me, or is secret blanket surveillance obscenely outrageous? Al Gore (@algore)"
https://twitter.com/algore
So I guess Al Gore's not on board with B.O.'s Adminstration "data-mining" tactics either.....
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Come on people, you know you're dying to say it, don't hold back now.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)The meta-data is not accessed unless a judge signs an order for each individual case.
I'll miss you
Swede Atlanta
(3,596 posts)I did not have sex with that woman argument....
In order to use the data you must have the data. So stockpiling the data is the first step in committing an act of unconstitutional search and seizure.
It would be like telling a prosecutor he/she could not include evidence that the Boston marathon bombers had gone to XXX home supply store and purchased 2 pressure cookers and then gone to YYY explosives company and purchased fertilizer and then ordered detonation devices over the internet from company ZZZ.
Collectively they are all part of an unbroken chain of evidence of a planned, willful conspiracy to commit an unconstitutional act.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Technically, it is not unconstitutional search and seizure. It is something I would like to see the Supreme Court rule on. It would have to be SCOTUS, since they alone determine what is and is not Constitutional.
Sirveri
(4,517 posts)Congress could fix this... but instead they'll use it to bash Obama with. He deserves it for using it, but that specific set of detractors would do the same damned thing.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)And, really, most of these members Congress, including the Democrats, gave the executive branch the power to do this.
And I am sure that Congress will do something, as soon as they pass another 45 bills ending "Obamacare."Not.
Abq_Sarah
(2,883 posts)In order to fulfill due process requirements that the names of every single person in this country would have to be listed on a warrant issued by a court. "All electronic communications" within the United States is so incredibly overbroad it couldn't possibly pass constitutional muster. Remember, just because the jackasses in Congress pass a "law" doesn't make that law legal.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)For defining what the meaning of "is, is".
It's amazing the excuses "I'm A-Okay That B.O,'s NSA Spying on My Stuff" type of Democrats are. It's down right sickening, really!!
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)...is that so many people are so fucking clueless about this that they think the statement that Obama is "spying on your stuff" is true.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)gcomeau
(5,764 posts)...I then actually research how accurate it is. Would be nice if many other people gave enough of a shit to do so as well before ranting about it on the internet.
The program everyone is currently in the middle of their collective freakout over is an NSA initiative to archive high level communication traffic data. No individual person is being "spied on", nobody is having their telecommunications activity tracked and analyzed, nobody's texts are being poured through or transcripts of their phone conversations being dissected. Nobody is fucking SPYING ON YOU.
Any of that would require a FISA warrant. Unless you have had one issued against you, personally, specifically, you are not being "spied on" by the NSA or the Obama administration.
Now during the Bush term all the above actually happened WITHOUT warrants. As in illegally. Get pissed about THAT and the fact that those people are still free and clear of any criminal charges for all the crimes they committed... but that isn't happening these days under Obama. Understand?
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)I'm sure I have some catching up to do, but I think you're misrepresenting what's going on.
From what I know, in regards to phone calls, they're admitting to metadata tracking only, not contents, so though I am skeptical they aren't also storing phone call contents, if they are doing so, they haven't admitted it yet. So on that point we aagree.
I do believe they have the content of internet communications, not just the metadata. So that would mean the content of your texts, emails, videos you upload, posts to DU, etc.
I also believe it's not an archival program, it's an active database that has full searching capabilities, with algorithmic analysis of all incoming data being combined with the "archived" (your word, actually I think it's just whatever's stored in the database) data to flag potential troublemakers.
No doubt such a program would have very sophisticated queries developed that would allow instant production of any and all of this content to be reported on for any individual or groups of people.
If you know anything that contradicts this, I'd read your links, need to get up on the details, but I think it's an active, fully indexed and queryable database containing much more than you have described and not some static archive that is never looked at.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Sure, that's it. What's happening is unconstitutional. Whether or not they use it is really immaterial. However, you really believe that with all that info sitting there no one is ever going to access it?
You are relying on the term "spy on" as something that has to be active, but it doesn't. They fact that they have the material stored and can access it at any time means they are spying, the gathering of my private communications is spying in and of itself.
But even so, you're wrong:
It appears the National Security Agencys sweeping surveillance is not something only Verizon customers should be concerned about. The agency has also reportedly obtained access to the central servers of major U.S. Internet companies as part of a secret program that involves the monitoring of emails, file transfers, photos, videos, chats, and even live surveillance of search terms.
The Washington Post disclosed Thursday that it had obtained classified PowerPoint slides detailing the program, code-named PRISM, from a career intelligence officer who felt horror over its privacy-invading capabilities. They quite literally can watch your ideas form as you type, the source told the newspaper.
Participating in the PRISM program, according to a selection of the leaked slides, are Internet titans including Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, AOL, Skype, YouTube, and Apple. It was established in 2007 and is used by NSA analysts to spy on Internet communications as part of the agencys foreign intelligence-gathering work. The analysts use PRISM by keying in search terms supposedly designed to produce at least 51 percent confidence in a targets foreignness. However, the Post notes, training materials for the program instruct new analysts to submit accidentally collected U.S. content for a quarterly report, but its nothing to worry about.
According to the Post, the system enables NSA spies to monitor Googles Gmail, voice and video chat, Google Drive (formerly Google Docs), photo libraries, and live surveillance of searches. If agents believe a target is engaged in terrorism, espionage or nuclear proliferation, they can use the spy system to exploit Facebooks extensive search and surveillance capabilities." And PRISM can monitor Skype, the Post notes, when one end of the call is a conventional telephone and for any combination of audio, video, chat, and file transfers when Skype users connect by computer alone. In order to receive immunity from lawsuits, the participating companies are obliged to accept a directive from the attorney general and the director of national intelligence to open their servers to the FBIs Data Intercept Technology Unit, which handles liaison to U.S. companies from the NSA.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/06/06/nsa_prism_surveillance_private_data_from_google_microsoft_skype_apple_yahoo.html
And guess what? It's not constitutional. So if you are fine with throwing our constitution in the toilet just because it's Obama or some Democrat doing it then I wish you would change parties or go to another country that doesn't say it's for the people etc., etc., etc.
The people should know this is happening. If it's so innocuous why was it secret? What happened to having a transparent govt, the most transparent ever?
Sorry, you can twist it all up as much as you want, but it is unconstitutional spying on citizens, period. And it's as close to a police state as we've ever been. You really think that's okay?
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)1. Just the overall big picture pattern of communications is useful information to have.
2. They will have the data available IF THEY NEED TO GET A WARRANT AND LOOK AT IT.
And yeah, please tell me more about all the things the Washington Post, which has already deceived the public multiple times about the program and been caught doing it, has to say about it. Their claims about the program having access to things like Google's servers HAVE ALREADY BEEN DEBUNKED AND BACK-PEDALED ON.
http://www.businessinsider.com/washington-post-updates-spying-story-2013-6
You're being played for a sucker by the GOP on this. Pay Freaking Attention.
Th1onein
(8,514 posts)either. I'm done. I will vote for Independents only.
brooklynite
(94,852 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)brooklynite
(94,852 posts)Just a question -- if you're opposed to electing Democrats, why hang out at a pro-Democrat blog?
bigtree
(86,013 posts). . . trolling on behalf of 'independents' comes to mind.
Of course, all of that just amounts to a pretty solid opposition to the Democratic party. That's not something that i think enhances or contributes productively to our little internet community. It's a stance which is disruptive, by its very nature.
. . . and the retort from fry is to 'tell mommy.' Inspiring.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)trumps the "little internet community", especially when that community is deteriorating the Dem Party while they profess to be supporting it. Anyone who supports warrantless wiretapping, cutting SS and countless other atrocities just because someone who is a member of the Dem party does it is selling out the Dem party. But hey, let's just worry about the rules of one internet site and what makes the little internet community feel good about themselves rather than what that site actually represents now due to so many members selling out the party principles in favor of idolizing one man.
It's clear who the real democrats are.
Thank you for saying it better than I ever could.
brooklynite
(94,852 posts)...sites where I'm sure you'd find a happy home.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)of undemocratic countries where you can find a happy home.
See how dumb a response like that sounds?
Why should progressives leave when we're the ones standing up for the Democratic Party's supposed principles? When we're the ones standing up for the constitution?
If the Dem party becomes no different than the Republican party on constitutional issues are we still supposed to cheer it on and vote for those who would destroy the very foundation of this country? I think not.
Rather than wishing us away, you should be thanking us.
brooklynite
(94,852 posts)...and the way to do that is work within the Party to select candidates and advocate for policies you want. When you abandon the Democratic Party, you may "send them a message", but you've lost any further influence. Dream all you want, but our political structure is built around a center-left and a center-right Party; throwing your vote to the Greens, Socialists or the occasional Independent isn't going to make a difference.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)It's now center and extreme right. I honestly think the Dem Party is pushing people out and I hope that eventually there will be enough to form a left-center (more left than center) third party so we can get back to the people's business because I don't see the Dem Party doing that any time within the next several decades, not while they are beholden to corporations.
It may take people leaving for them to wake up. But they're not going to change unless they don't think they'll have careers any more. We can see they don't really care about standing up for what's right.
Th1onein
(8,514 posts)Th1onein
(8,514 posts)In fact, for decades, I have voted straight ticket Democrat. I've been here a while, check out my profile. And, this is THE place for the exchange of liberal ideas, in my opinion. But you have to draw the line somewhere. I will NEVER vote for a Republican, OR a Libertarian. But I will search out Independent liberal candidates and campaign for them, and vote for them. From now on.
I am deeply disappointed in our President.
brooklynite
(94,852 posts)this is Skinner's Board, and Skinner makes the rules...
Winning elections is important therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground. But that does not mean that DU members are required to always be completely supportive of Democrats. During the ups-and-downs of politics and policy-making, it is perfectly normal to have mixed feelings about the Democratic officials we worked hard to help elect. When we are not in the heat of election season, members are permitted to post strong criticism or disappointment with our Democratic elected officials, or to express ambivalence about voting for them. In Democratic primaries, members may support whomever they choose. But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees
You certainly have a right to vote as you see fit, but campaigning for "Independent liberal candidates" sounds to me like campaigning against Democrats.
Th1onein
(8,514 posts)Th1onein
(8,514 posts)Th1onein
(8,514 posts)Try again.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)It says it on my tag line (look below) and at our website "I.U. provides the BEST NEWS & TALK covering Politics & Breaking News from a"SANITY" BASED INDEPENDENT LEFT PERSPECTIVE. Leaving "battles of extremes" of the politically insane FAR Right & Left, elsewhere!". Wonder what that means for me because I support PEOPLE (policies that support Americans Middle and Lower Economic Classes) over party?
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)The storing is the most egregiously fascistic aspect of this. They are creating a database on every single citizen's movements and activities. Those who don't see the danger in that are either apologists, or they have not thought through the possibilities.
Citizen 1,675,402 begins to look a little too angry or activist, and it will be no trouble at all to search through the data and find some reason, somewhere, to call the local officers to check out some violation from 2013. To arrest, or have someone disappear.
It offers pre-emptive silencing of opposition to the government, even before it has a chance to materialize. And for those who are implementing an agenda of corporate, profit-centered and human-exploiting policies that will cause widespread impoverishment and rage, this is exactly the sort of system that will offer tremendous temptations for abuse to prevent the inevitable pushback.
It is creepy as hell, and ALL Americans should be standing together now to stop it.
"The Mass Surveillance program is to protect the government FROM the people."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2962737
Th1onein
(8,514 posts)God help us.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)This is nothing short of chilling and, really, should have Americans in the streets saying ENOUGH.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Rationalization is your key to happiness.
bigtree
(86,013 posts). . . constant and reflexive opposition to this presidency would be your handle here.
. . . and you're right, no one is fooled by all of that opposition (ODS) on this board from rhett o rick.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)principles, I will support them. I strongly supported candidate Barack Obama in 2007 when he indicated that he supported Democratic values and principles. I am disappointed that he didnt follow thru and end or at least severely restrict the Patriot Act and domestic spying. Explain to me why I shouldnt be disappointed?
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Don't forget to look at substance. Just compare the reflexive support of Obama to the detailed and substantiated crriticisms.
Response to rhett o rick (Reply #215)
Post removed
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)do not include embracing the Patriot Act and domestic spying.
I opposed those issues when Bush was president and I still oppose those issues.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)but that's not what you did, regardless of your attempt to sound all noble and wonderful...now.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Is that as bad as calling someone a troll?
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)insult and belittle anyones support of a Dem on a Dem site is absolutely telling IMHO...and makes no sense unless your intent is to diminish that support. Isn't that what trolls do? Infiltrate and demoralize?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)rectify it. And I wasnt insulted by your calling me a troll, if that was your intention.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)should we ever want to, and from surprising little data we can learn more about you than you probably know yourself. It's also not just you, but everybody you communicate with. Are you familiar with the principle of six degrees of separation? We don't need half that. Even if you are as perfectly innocent as you undoubtedly believe yourself to be, how sure are you about everybody else?
Add to this extremely abbreviated scenario the fact that this is inconceivably more than a little data limited to U.S. communications, and this is far better than trying to listen to every conversation and read every email.
radhika
(1,008 posts)Just knowing who knows who, who patronizes a service business and what linkages exist among seeming strangers is plenty. Not necessarily accurate, below legal standards. But definitely suggestive. I'll bet some of those signature drone strikes Schahill writes of started with less.
Why do jealous partners spy on their partners phone logs? Doesn't reveal the conversation...but it's enough to escalate things.
harun
(11,348 posts)tavalon
(27,985 posts)Don't tie yourself in a pretzel. Data mining was wrong under the Shrub and it remains wrong now.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)if they can't spy on everyone?
4th Amendment? What's that?
quinnox
(20,600 posts)I know you have been here a long time too. I recognize your handle. It is becoming harder to remain a Democrat with all this bullshit taking place recently. Maybe the Obama White House will get the message and start curtailing some of this spying nonsense (among other things). One can hope.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)The Obama curve is arching farther and farther right. I thought it was decided years ago that there were was to be no purity test for posting on DU, no requirement to only preach to the choir. I like to argue. That's how things get sifted out. What kind of discussion can you have without true believers, apostates, middle of the roaders and even trolls having at it sometimes? That's how democracy is designed to work.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)I don't understand how a site that is supposed to have debate and discussion from differing points of view has that. So stupid.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)for the choir preachers. I suppose. Bless their hearts.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)but leaving it is not the answer. Instead you need to work at taking it back from the corporate DLCers and back to it's core principles. I'm with you in not giving money directly to the DNC or other organizations that give money to candidates you may not like or supports policies you don't want like destroying the fourth amendment. Instead send money directly to candidates you do like and work for them individually.
Swede Atlanta
(3,596 posts)My contributions and open support for Democratic candidates, including Obama, were significantly lower in 2012 than they were in 2008 or 2010.
As I see the Democratic party move further and further away from my core beliefs in so many areas it is hard to energetically support them. I do endorse the open support they have for women's and LGBT rights and their tacit support for the right to organize.
But, other than some mealy mouthed words from President Obama, Geithner and company perpetrated a fraud on the American people when it came to Wall Street. Despite Dodd-Frank, the big banks and Wall Street continued to suck the lifeblood out of the average American with BO and company laughing all the way to their bank accounts.
The most concerning, however, is not only the continued, but indeed expanded war on the American people and on the rule of law by BO and his administration. They have wiped their collective asses with what little was left of the Constitution with the spying and deployment of drones over American cities. They continue to believe their use of drones and other instruments of war in an undeclared war abroad even when they don't know the identities of those targeted is justified.
They are plain and simple drunk on power and bordering very close to a dictatorship. I would rather have a Democrat as dictator but I don't want any dictator at all. When we consider that Congress, Democrat and Republic alike, are owned by the 1%, do we realize that we the people are totally screwed.
markiv
(1,489 posts)that there's a phone company that sucks more than Sprint
didnt think it was possible
dionysus
(26,467 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)I just posted the video of this down thread!
I knew I should have read thru this thread!
Great minds...
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)my contacts. As far as I'm concerned Bernie Sanders, Alan Grayson, and Elizabeth Warren are the only politicians left on earth (and Bernie is adamant about pointing out that he's no Democrat).
markiv
(1,489 posts)he tells it like it is, and acts lke he tells it
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)RKP5637
(67,112 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)He's a Democrat, a Senator and never was a Republican ever. He supports actual equality.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)unflinching commitment to egalitarian principles from either of them. They are career politicians and whenever it comes down to you or them, neither is prepared to go to the mat for you. The guy that Merkley shamelessly smeared to get into the club, Steve Novick, was a far stronger choice and that's why he was taken out.
If not for the DNC...
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)otohara
(24,135 posts)and let the rest of us choose who the candidate will be.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)but what do I know? Just been one since 2009... something about Single Payor.
otohara
(24,135 posts)the Independent Party of America?
http://www.aipca.org/
http://www.independentamericanparty.org/
Both look a bit too religious for my taste.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)the Registrar considers me an INDEPENDENT VOTER, with no affiliation.
They warn you NOT to cross the INDEPENDENT party.
Again, what would I know. Been one for a while now, proudly so. And it has an added benefit, I get crap from literally EVERYBODY.
ctsnowman
(1,903 posts)you can register as an independent and not join a party. I should know... 12 years now.
Have a great day.
otohara
(24,135 posts)have you voted for?
Or do you just vote for "I" candidates?
Since you post here I figure you're not clueless like the many so-called "independents" I have spoken to
on the phone over the years of volunteering for the Dem candidate. I watch the poll numbers for "I's" and
they swing back and forth. Vote Dem one year, GOP the next --- or ... there's the "I" person who just votes Democratic
all the time.
I've been here for 12 years and have voted for 1 Republican (Jodi Rell Gov.) and 0 independents. Last time I voted straight D ticket because the Cons are to strong in many places in our country and I'd be damned if we were going to send one from CT. Last I heard there isn't one R in the house from ALL of New England certainly none from CT . The Rs up here tend to be more like southern Dems. I quit the D party when most went for the Iraq war but still send the party money. If they ever put someone like Grayson on the Democratic ticket for president I'd dip into savings and do anything I could to help him. I may vote Green if they ever get a viable candidate. The short of it is that I am too liberal (free trade and support for massive military spending are my biggest problems with the DLC) for the Democrats.
Peace and I hope you have a great day.
hamster
(101 posts)Obama is my president and i've got his back. Best. President. Ever.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)okaawhatever
(9,478 posts)bluestate10
(10,942 posts)number in the database. I hope those people don't wear the same color of foil caps because they can be confused with teabaggers. BTW, Rachel is fucking intolerable so far.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)tells us absolutely everything we need to know.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)And you are incorrect. You have clearly either forgotten or were never aware of the vile piece of legislation called the FISA Bill passed by Congress to save the telecoms from prosecution and law suits when a whistle blower revealed that Bush had been using them back then to spy on the American People which at that time, was against the law.
The 'right' (Republicans) defended that crime and the FISA Bill. The 'left' (Democrats) were outraged at the revelations and the attempt to protect the criminals, which succeeded.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Of course people like you, who hate the left, the people who actually stand up for democratic principles and people's rights, are making the party "the right".
You are the ones being confused with teabaggers. You are the one who seems to dislike criticism of right wing policies even though PBO is enacting them.
Please explain though, how defending civil rights is teabaggerish.
SunSeeker
(51,771 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)okaawhatever
(9,478 posts)operate. I'll take the safety being provided right now to giving up this intelligence info. I don't expect privacy when I make an international call. Never have. I'm not threatened and I wonder why so many of you are.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Sorry, but that's a lazy excuse for not standing up for our constitutional rights. What's happening is unconstitutional, and it's not only having privacy on international calls that is at issue. And btw... why would you not expect privacy for international calls? Because the other side would monitor it? Or because you're okay with it being monitored in the U.S.
And what safety is being provided by spying on any citizen at all, by gathering all records of all citizens???
I'm not threatened personally, but the constitution is threatened. I care about that and I wonder why so many of you don't.
Abq_Sarah
(2,883 posts)Just don't hand over mine as well.
okaawhatever
(9,478 posts)changed. Take the hysteria away from this and not much has changed regarding American citizens. I have always known I don't have an expectation of privacy with international communications.
Abq_Sarah
(2,883 posts)Is the "myth" that only international calls are being collected.
The mere fact that the government is warehousing our communications, not limited strictly to telephone calls, without a warrant, without probable cause needs to be addressed. What you and others are suggesting is akin to saying it's okay to rob a bank as long as you don't spend the money.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Daniel537
(1,560 posts)You drones are just as pathetic as the wingnuts on the right.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)from the movie TOMBSTONE.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)markiv
(1,489 posts)Until we have achieved that, I will support a temporary increase in the H-1B visa program as a stopgap measure
from:
http://pradeepc.net/blog/2007/11/26/barack-obama-on-h1b-and-immigration/
i knew he didnt give a ---- about the middle class
The Link
(757 posts)And the FISA judge's.
And Verizon's.
And your smartphone's.
And its only meta data.
And 9/11 and terror.
And if you didn't do anything wrong, why worry?
madamesilverspurs
(15,813 posts)where we were working on candidate development and building the campaigns for some local races coming up in November.
During a break one of the guys checked his email, wherein he'd received a link to the breaking story that our county commissioners, all Republicans, voted to propose joining some other counties in breaking away to form a new state. Seriously, they feel themselves abused by background checks and anti-frackers and wimmen who refuse to be barefoot and pregnant. Our mayor and city council are rightwing enough to endorse the idea. So I'm thinking that this would NOT be the time for me and my co-workers to leave the Democratic Party. It may not be perfect, but the alternative is unthinkable.
markiv
(1,489 posts)reminds me of a passage from Orwell's 'Animal Farm'
(Jones is the farmer the animals ran off in their revolution)
The mystery of where the milk went to was soon cleared up. It was mixed every day into the pigs' mash. The early apples were now ripening, and the grass of the orchard was littered with windfalls. The animals had assumed as a matter of course that these would be shared out equally; one day, however, the order went forth that all the windfalls were to be collected and brought to the harness?room for the use of the pigs. At this some of the other animals murmured, but it was no use. All the pigs were in full agreement on this point, even Snowball and Napoleon. Squealer was sent to make the necessary explanations to the others.
"Comrades!" he cried. "You do not imagine, I hope, that we pigs are doing this in a spirit of selfishness and privilege? Many of us actually dislike milk and apples. I dislike them myself. Our sole object in taking these things is to preserve our health. Milk and apples (this has been proved by Science, comrades) contain substances absolutely necessary to the well?being of a pig. We pigs are brainworkers. The wholemanagement and organisation of this farm depend on us. Day and night we are watching over your welfare. It is for your sake that we drink that milk and eat those apples. Do you know what would happen if we pigs failed in our duty? Jones would come back! Yes, Jones would come back! Surely, comrades," cried Squealer almost pleadingly, skipping from side to side and whisking his tail, "surely there is no one among you who wants to see Jones come back?"
Now if there was one thing that the animals were completely certain of, it was that they did not want Jones back. When it was put to them in this light, they had no more to say. The importance of keeping the pigs in good health was all too obvious. So it was agreed without further argument that the milk and the windfall apples (and also the main crop of apples when they ripened) should be reserved for the pigs alone
pscot
(21,024 posts)(spoiler alert, for anyone who intends to read Orwell's 'Animal Farm')
the ending
He had only one criticism, he said, to make of Mr. Pilkington's excellent and neighbourly speech. Mr.Pilkington had referred throughout to "Animal Farm." He could not of course know?for he, Napoleon, was only now for the first time announcing it?that the name "Animal Farm" had been abolished. Henceforward the farm was to be known as "The Manor Farm"?which, he believed, was its correct and original name. "Gentlemen," concluded Napoleon, "I will give you the same toast as before, but in a different form. Fill your
glasses to the brim. Gentlemen, here is my toast: To the prosperity of The Manor Farm! "
There was the same hearty cheering as before, and the mugs were emptied to the dregs. But as the animals outside gazed at the scene, it seemed to them that some strange thing was happening. What was it that had altered in the faces of the pigs? Clover's old dim eyes flitted from one face to another. Some of them had five chins, some had four, some had three. But what was it that seemed to be melting and changing? Then, the applause having come to an end, the company took up their cards and continued the game that had been
interrupted, and the animals crept silently away.
But they had not gone twenty yards when they stopped short. An uproar of voices was coming from the farmhouse. They rushed back and looked through the window again. Yes, a violent quarrel was in progress.There were shoutings, bangings on the table, sharp suspicious glances, furious denials. The source of the trouble appeared to be that Napoleon and Mr. Pilkington had each played an ace of spades simultaneously. Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man
again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Don't spread it around but I think Stand with Rand stood her up.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Perfect.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)counting the dog.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)She's a nightmare, a horrible person. And for those about to yell "What did you think during Bush!," I'm talking about the late 1990's. Her ego knows no bounds. A disaster.
(And, by the way, we did actually protest Clinton's Iraq policies (the sanctions regime), which killed at least as many Iraqis as the war, or so we used to claim at the time. Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure she was even there when we protested Clinton's visit to SF on Nob Hill, musta been Spring 1998 or thereabouts. Oof, she's awful.)
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)not too threatening and kind of cheesy, just right for FOX, but to keep the same act for the next four years was kind of strange and insulting. And heckling last month was seriously out of touch.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)And that's the first time I've actually said that.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)All Valentined up and no place to go...
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)Welcome to sanity.
Itchinjim
(3,085 posts)Bye!
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Pretty much leaves you either voting for a teabagger or refraining from voting (something the GOP loves to see).
Yay, progessives!
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)Meaning I donated selectively. The recipients were probably exclusively DEMs ( since Obama style school "reform" is a conservative Republican idea ... to the BONE) but I supported them as individuals. Money soliciting from the state and nat'l party ( I love it when they *call* esp. , cause then I can VENT) goes unrewarded.
I feel vindicated ( in a sad way; would have been happier if I had been proven wrong... or even premature) by subsequent developments. Including the spying. Progressives need to take the party back.
However.... I still consider myself a DEM and hope you will think of yourself that way also.
railsback
(1,881 posts)Mitt Romney could be president, with Dick Cheney advising. That would be tits!
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Last edited Thu Jun 6, 2013, 10:59 PM - Edit history (1)
This is the Left version of the homey style of Rush, Beck and O'Reilly. They are our 'friends' who will teach us the path of righteousness.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)to granny's picket fence, and meeting hot lefties for romance, and accomplishing absolutely nothing but getting laid occasionally. I'll pass.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Your attacks on Democrats are so similar to those we see from Rush.
Why do you attack Democrats on this forum? Are YOU a Democrat? This is a Democratic/Left forum.
'Hot lefties' who do 'nothing but get laid'. Wow! Why are you here if you despise Democrats so much?
And what is wrong with getting laid btw?
Democrats don't generally have problems with sex or with other people having sex.
Republican talking points aimed at democrats right here on DU.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)graham4anything
(11,464 posts)Democratic Underground, also known as DU, is an online community for U.S. Democrats. Its membership is restricted by policy to those who are supportive of the Democratic Party and Democratic candidates for political office.[2] DU was established on January 20, 2001, the day Republican George W. Bush was inaugurated president
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)"an online community for U.S. Democrats"
I will miss sid,
Number23
(24,544 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Until he started mocking those who wanted single payer, the type of health coverage Sid personally enjoys as a Canadian where he doesn't have to worry about going bankrupt due to medical bills.
It became clear then that Sid is empathically challenged and I've seen nothing out of him since then to change my opinion.
Going on a board and discussing their internal politics with the inhabitants of another country is fine, what I have trouble understanding is why anyone in their right mind would choose to be as nasty about it as Sid often is.
I don't get Sid's motivation, this stuff for the great part does not have an effect on him and yet he's playing to injure.
dflprincess
(28,089 posts)dflprincess
(28,089 posts)During the Bush administration DU itself said it was an online community for Democratics and other progressives.
sheshe2
(83,986 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)anybody joining either party would be worthy of media attention. Indies out number partisans... by quite a bit now.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Wrong.
The percentage of California voters registered as independents, also known as "decline to state or "no party preference voters, reached a record high of 21.3% in the June 2012 primary election. This marks an 11-point increase since the 1992 presidential election (10.3%). Over the same period, the percentage of registered voters in each of the major parties has fallen: Republicans from 37% to 30.2% and Democrats from 49.1% to 43.4%. Also, the actual number of independent voters has increased from 3.44 million before the 2008 presidential election to 3.65 million today, while the total number of registered voters has declined somewhat (from 17.3 million in 2009 to 17.15 million today).
http://www.ppic.org/main/publication_show.asp?i=784
Brother Buzz
(36,487 posts)demosincebirth
(12,549 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)FSogol
(45,570 posts)MineralMan
(146,341 posts)Your information is incorrect.
demosincebirth
(12,549 posts)BlueToTheBone
(3,747 posts)Initech
(100,118 posts)And I'm not talking about *THAT* third party - we need one that isn't full of incompetent, mindless dumbasses whose only job is to bend over backwards to serve the needs of the uber rich - while convincing their members that the other side doesn't have the founding fathers' best intentions, despite the fact that they themselves have no fucking clue what they actually stood for.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)newmember
(805 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)MjolnirTime
(1,800 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)And I doubt if a third party got in there, that they'd throw away this swell new tool at their disposal.
Who really thought that all that shit could be out there without someone trying to aggregate it? Those turds at Facebook do it, constantly bugging people for personal details and tailoring ads to suit....
This generation is growing up without a sense of privacy.
Want privacy? Get off the grid. It sounds harsh, but it's the truth. Your phone spies on you, your car does (unless it is an old shitbox), your credit/debit cards....you can't go two miles without your "devices" telling on you.
markiv
(1,489 posts)if there is, I think they're late in awarding it
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)Simple choice.
Shove your "choice" where the sun don't shine, Sparky. If the president and the party support this kind of fascist horseshit, they can fuck most thoroughly off. Simply being slightly less fucked up than the Republicans isn't remotely good enough.
Mnemosyne
(21,363 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Phlem
(6,323 posts)the " That's just wrong to look so effortlessly relaxed, happy & handsome " crowd is just anymore. When the superficial rules, there's really some thing wrong.
Thank you so much for saying it.
-p
LuvNewcastle
(16,862 posts)TDale313
(7,820 posts)Poll_Blind
(23,864 posts)...that's important to remember, too. Not saying you're not aware of it, I'm just bringing it up.
PB
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)RKP5637
(67,112 posts)Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)Apophis
(1,407 posts)piedmont
(3,462 posts)quinnox
(20,600 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Sock.
Who thinks he has a sense of humor.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Puglover
(16,380 posts)the poster who has been here since 2002. So whose sock are you Bobbie Jo? More over who cares? <shrug>
What a lame post.
His humor aside who gives a shit?
Are you going on about?
I wasn't referring to Q.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)Never mind.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)burnodo
(2,017 posts)at least, the left side of it
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)quinnox
(20,600 posts)who stays. They are the decider-in-chief!
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)That the poster is most certainly not the decider.
Disagree that tenure should be a sole decision making point on who is worthy of contributing to DU community.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Who the fuck died and made you DU Sheriff? If the admins want the poster gone the ADMINS will make that decision. You know, most of us are smart enough to lurk for awhile before posting just so we don't get caught posting stupid shit like the one you just did.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)Daniel537
(1,560 posts)Which is exactly what the Obama Fan Club has become. Fuck you and your shitrag party. You can keep it.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)the way conservatives talk/think.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Have you lost your mind? So when the Dem party decides to outlaw abortion and mandate vaginal probes we should also support it and Obama? At what point do you stop giving up your principles? What is your "price point"? Because you've sold out if you still support the Dem party and Obama when they don't stand by the principles the party is supposed to be about.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)"In the US, there is basically one party - the business party. It has two factions, called Democrats and Republicans, which are somewhat different but carry out variations on the same policies. By and large, I am opposed to those policies. As is most of the population."
Noam Chomsky
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)I think his last one burnt out in 1954.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)That was sort of like watching Kim Kardashian critique Richard Dawkins.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)bread_and_roses
(6,335 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)Enrique
(27,461 posts)i watched a Chomsky interview and it was the most relevant commentary I had seen from anyone in a long time. He didn't say anything particularly strong or controversial, it was just very insightful.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)It's just that after exploiting all the natural resources we can, we are left with exploiting each other, and people seem to think that is somehow different.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)I hear ya.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)but I usually vote Democrat. I have never once voted Republican.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)lfieldon0729
(1 post)If you left the Democratic Party over something that was started in the previous administration and signed by nearly every member of Congress (both parties) without reading it, then I am glad you are gone because you are too stupid to be in MY party. Good riddance.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)It was alerted upon, you really should not call other members stupid if you want to be a good community member.
Sound good?
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)That takes some gall.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)quinnox
(20,600 posts)just saying -->
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)Anyone missing one?
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Those anchors were really weighing me down...
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Tien1985
(920 posts)You feel you can't be part of the party anymore.
I'm going to continue to vote my conscience on every individual race, but that almost always ends up being the dem cand. I don't think I'll ever not vote from disliking the choices.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)I will ask that you try and change the party rather than abandon it. Work to get progressive candidates elected and refuse to work for or donate to those candidates that endorse this surveillance horseshit. Tell other Democrats why you are concerned and why it is important to press every candidate for a position on this issue. Leaving is just one of your options.
Cheers!
Phlem
(6,323 posts)and spot on.
Some times we get to impatient for change but yes support the candidates that move us back left again and give the finger to corporate Dems.
I can't stand them, and the ignorance they have inflicted the party with has got to be cured.
-p
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)personally much more likely to leave over democrats supporting the dismantling of our public school system but keep hoping the party can be changed from within.
Please consider trying to enact change before abandoning the party. Doesn't seem like this is supported by many posters here anyway. Hopefully democrats will use this story to get rid of the patriot act and return our nation to pre 911 sanity....
navarth
(5,927 posts)Good luck to you either way. I think it's wrong to be throwing rocks at you for what you said.
erpowers
(9,350 posts)Leaving the Democratic Party because President Obama has decided to demand that Verizon and other companies give up the personal information of the American people is not, in my opinion, the best course of action. It would be far better for you to gather a group of people together and write letters to the President or start a petition. Why not try to run for office? You should fight for change instead of leaving the party.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)Donate funds locally. I support those who deserve the support--not those who merely sport a D next to their name.
It is time to take the party back to what it used to be. And that ain't those (for the most part) who are sitting on Capitol Hill or Pennsylvania Ave. There is only so much Obama can do...but I believe it could still be more. Those who don't like it can sue me. It's not personal against the President. He was a better option, but he's not the Democrat I thought he was.
I voted D in the presidential election, but it didn't really mean anything at the time. It's become a football game for me, with D being just a little bit less of crazy, jingoistic, fake stuff.
It's going to take awhile, but as long as I'm living, I'll quietly donate and knock on doors for the truly deserving.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)the gop is very pleased with your decision.
GOTV 2014!
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)larger, more important picture. If people like the OP had not sat on their asses during the 2010 midterms, we wouldn't have the republican hell that we have now in too many states. I say good riddance to the OP and any one that thinks like that person. When I am in a knife fight, I want some one that I can fucking count on covering my back.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)It's because I was fighting the (racial) Civil Rights fight before some here were born ... Maybe my education and professional has pretty much beat the "knee-jerk out of me ... Maybe it's because my basic nature prevents me from making promises I know I will not keep; or if I did, I know I would be in a hell of a worst spot.
But for whatever reason, I don't do stupid.
ileus
(15,396 posts)dkf
(37,305 posts)one_voice
(20,043 posts)oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)jazzimov
(1,456 posts)Could it be your username?
You can do as you wish, but I will wait until I have more information. From what I understand, they were only looking for destinations, not content. I personally don't have a problem with this.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)He is a long term member and has been here for a long time, ever since the Bush years. "Usregimechange" think about it, its not exactly rocket science.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)That the posters name would sail right over so many heads. I suppose it makes them feel better to think this person could in no way have been a real democrat. I mean how can anyone exercise free will?
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)Bush was in office (hence the name--checking on profiles helps keep one from placing an Oxford or 5 in one's mouth).
There is nothing worse than these kinds of accusations when one isn't willing to blindly lockstep anymore. It's what we laughed at the Bush sheeple for, and it makes me want to vomit when I see it here.
That said, before you ask for my "Dem" creds:
Dean supporter (I have pictures if you wish to see them)
Unwilling (But I DID it) Kerry door knocker.
and then?
I gave up on the national party and took it back home. I support local politicians only...until they too, become this new breed of American Politician who doesn't really stand for anything anymore.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)a long time and well respected duer like usregimechange. They have no class to speak of, apparently.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)We're suspected of "not being 'real' Democrats" because we question our representation?
That smacks of the 'pubs telling us we weren't real Americans back in the day.
I'm tired of it.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)off the cliff.
QC
(26,371 posts)the day they tuned in to Oprah and saw the most dreeeeeeeeamy senator sitting on her couch.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)they stand for more money in their personal coffers, that's what they stand for.
mwooldri
(10,303 posts)This $hit was approved with the USA PATRIOT Act. Congress also voted to extend said bill. I have joked when speaking with my parents that "this call is monitored by the CIA for quality purposes". I have known for a long time ... way before GW Bush... that these capabilities exist and that they are being used. The law authorized it, and it's now apparently a common procedure at the NSA.
I am surprised that this isn't common knowledge. The most secure computer network I know of riitht now is the sneaker-net. As for phone calls... I don't expect privacy there either.
Leaving a political party because of this one issue that both parties supported is a decision you made. My point is that this problem happened a long time ago, and codified into law by Congress around 2001/2. That was the time to get mad about it but everything was terra! terra! Emergency! The Muslims! Bin Laden! Also time to get mad when it was renewed. Now the full extent of this NSA "snooping" has been revealed, people get mad. Congress authorized this $hit. Congress can fix it if they can get their collective heads from outside their arse and actually do something.
I edited this because the subject line was not in line with the rest of this post, and to fix some grammar.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)Otherwise we'll end up with a president that nominates a bunch of Republicans to...wait...shit.
MsPithy
(809 posts)McCain had won. Wait, before you flame me, if McCain had tried to collect all American's phone calls, or used the NSA to gather all our online information, does anyone doubt democrats would have fought tooth and nail?
Because the president is a democrat, they just roll over.
With a few exceptions.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The law that made this legal passed when a Republican was in office. And Democrats overwhelmingly voted for it.
So no, having McCain in office wouldn't have caused Democrats to line up against it. They had their chance long before the 2008 election and rolled over.
On the plus side, with McCain in office we would have invaded Syria already, and we'd still have a massive presence in Iraq.
Zen Democrat
(5,901 posts)I was irate about this when Sen. Rockefeller sort of spilled the beans during the Bush Administration. Remember Iran-Contra's own Admiral Poindexter was implementing the Total Information Awareness data-mining program at the NSA until Congress shut it down in 2003. But then there were Patriot Act reauthorizations and expansions and this stuff is now legal. Anyone who really believes that Barack Obama or John McCain or Bill Clinton or any elected official could control the security untouchables is simply naive.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)One issue politics are so non-democratic anyway.
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)The Fourth Amendment has now reached pony status.
Dustlawyer
(10,499 posts)COMPLETE CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM (CCFR)! That's the only hope, when something finally sets people off (if it happens), they need to focus on only CCFR and reset the whole damn thing!
TDale313
(7,820 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)Boy, voting independent in 2000 was such a great idea.
We're in the process of taking the party back from the DLCers. It's not gonna happen overnight, but it is happening. To keep it going, we have to keep fighting the DLCers within the party. Abandoning it just results in more Republicans, and more DLCers.
It took about 20 years for the DLCers to take over the party. It's gonna take a while to take it back from them.
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)The rank and file generally speaking don't support it. The empowered appointed and elected do. After all, they have so much to protect us from, like hidden shadowy forces committed to the destruction of something or another.
George Orwell warned us, and we created a system right out of science fiction nightmares to make sure it came true. All in the name of national security.
SunSeeker
(51,771 posts)rtracey
(2,062 posts)Don't come back.....
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)If not, then I will be exploring other options. I'm tired of giving my vote to people who give away our precious resources to the rich. The bankers were never punished, and they still gamble with our money. The education system is completely broken, and the only answer the democrats can come up with is privatization. The insurance companies got to write Obamacare when we should be implementing single payer. We are eroding our reputation around the world by using drones. We are spying on our own people. I'm sick of it. It's disgusting. It makes me sick to my stomach. Democrats are throwing my children's future away. Our kids are the proverbial frog in the boiling water. We're suppose to make the world a better place for our children. We are destroying it.
burnodo
(2,017 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)No, or course not. The group sticks together and uses their vote...that's how!
True Socialists understand that isn't not about the individual. I am amazed at those that tout the solicalist line, then leave over individual poutage. Clearly that have not unsterstood the concept of unions, group strength, solcialism.
panader0
(25,816 posts)It ain't right, but it's always been there to some degree. Police have been listening to cell phones calls since there were cell phones.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)walls ... etc., and it will probably never stop.
davidsonl
(6 posts).... finding a president who meets your standards for perfection. I have a lot invested in the Democratic Party and President Obama. I am certainly willing to ride this out and get all of the information. Do check back with those of us that stay in this forum and let us know who you are going to be politically supporting. Should be interesting. Have a nice weekend.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)DaDeacon
(984 posts)pasto76
(1,589 posts)which is in fact what you will be doing. course most of you on DU think all of us soldiers are mindless robots, but speaking as someone who has put my life on the line for our ideals...gotta say there are a hundred other problems out there that are bigger than this one.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)the other guy in office.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Speaking for others without offering any support for your allegations is not an honorable action.
SunSeeker
(51,771 posts)And thank you for your service.
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)midnight
(26,624 posts)Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)It's clear that the national leaders don't give two shits and consider themselves above answering to their party or to its historical values. Our best bets are local/state races.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)or email?
Arctic Dave
(13,812 posts)See you on the flip side.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)Non-Governmental Organizations, such as Occupy, Move to Amend, 350.org, and the anti-KeystoneXL and tar sands actions.
Until the government can be brought back to sanity. Or, if it cannot.
mick063
(2,424 posts)Unless the candidate for any given office openly aligns with dismantling the infrastructure of unwarranted surveillance, that by the US Government or private enterprise, I will simply abstain from political activism.
Lose the Patriot act, lose the Dept. of Homeland Security, lose the federalization of our local police, and put the Justice Department on investigating white collar criminals on Wall Street instead of petty pressure cooker buyers.
Unless the candidate comes out openly with an agenda to dismantle the economic disparity caused by ALEC and our financial institutions, I will abstain.
Quit spending time "busting" marijuana dispensers and start getting after the billionaire tax cheats.
No more money, no more debating, no more effort. I'm done. Bring on Rand Paul for some real culture shock. I'm ready.
Let the corporate owned, national media following lemmings get what they "deserve". I'll hide out as an old man and watch the nation burn as an "I told ya so" spectator.
It will indeed burn. Just like Berlin eventually burned. It is inevitable.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)rights we are guaranteed as citizens of this country and the egregious violations that have been taking place ever since this phony war on terror was used to strike so much fear into the people they would willingly go along with giving up their rights, should leave the party. I think we should not only stay but with the knowledge we now have that we did not have in previous years, begin the process of forcing OUR party to start standing up against these Bush policies.
Eg, we need to join the ACLU and other Civil liberties organizations in pressuring Democrats to stop supporting these Bush policies and begin the process of restoring the rights taken away by Bush, as they promised to do.
They could start by acting as quickly as they did when they passed the FISA Bill, designed to protect Bush and his puppets in the Telecom industry from prosecution by legalizing what was ILLEGAL when Bush was caught doing it, and introduce a Bill just as quickly to restore the old Bill which made this kind of spying illegal.
They need to hear from the people every day until they get the message that unless they start acting on our behalf, they will be primaried with people who will. But it IS our party and we should not be driven out of it leaving it to the Corps to control. It WILL be a fight, but we are far better prepared now than we ever were before.
Deep13
(39,154 posts)For me it was renewing the Bush tax cuts.
denny1952
(6 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)They had been calling for several days and I've been avoiding it, until this morning when I picked up just to tell them why I won't donate. I told them no more money until NSA spying ends.
I won't donate and volunteer to finish what Bush started.
tridim
(45,358 posts)Otherwise you would have had to lie about your withholding of money to Democrats. You're so lucky!!!!!11
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)4 days in a row from 6/3 to 6/6 @ 9:40, 11:48, 9:28 and 3:47, each time showing up as Unknown Name, and they never leave a message if you send them to voicemail. Knew it was them since they did it to me within the last year. I got a woman in a call center.
Pathetic from you that you aren't aware of a massive fundraising effort from the DGA, and yet have the nerve to call me a liar.
tridim
(45,358 posts)I hope I get that lucky some day! :wave:
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)is giving you a tough time, usregimechange. I get the same shit every time I mention I'm not a Democrat anymore either.
RandiFan1290
(6,258 posts)tridim
(45,358 posts)@ you.
michigandem58
(1,044 posts)Looking forward to your return next week. The extinguisher is right over there >>>>
faithnomore
(41 posts)It's simply a choice between one lying asshole or another lying asshole...........
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)They even have their own talking points, and a long fresh line of newly dug ostritch hole in which we can place our heads in.
kentuck
(111,110 posts)if it was useless to them? Why would they waste their time?
cprise
(8,445 posts)WovenGems
(776 posts)Why didn't you leave the party in 1949 when the NSA was founded or twenty years ago when they began recording communications? Avoid hype and seek facts.
rbixby
(1,140 posts)Coyotl
(15,262 posts)and if you did not like NSA spying, why were you still in the Party anyway?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)and it's wrong now.
Anyone that wants to be an apologist for this is welcome to their opinion, but don't waste your breath on me because clearly they don't give a shit.
dembotoz
(16,864 posts)but sadly I live in Wisconsin which is undergoing an extreme veer to the right
and as much as dems annoy me--yes they threw me out of my local party.......
I hate yes hate the republicans more
so participate where you want
when you want
there are greater evils out there than Obama
although sometimes you do wonder....
Daniel537
(1,560 posts)The PATRIOT Act, FISA, Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel etc.... This is why i never vote straight D on anything. I vote for candidates depending on their substance, not on some fucking letter after their name.
0nirevets
(391 posts)Dems don't do everything right, Obama certainly doesn't, but no one gets everything they want all the time. Are you really jumping ship to join the party that created the Patriot Act? Excuse me but that makes no sense at all.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)the the neocon philosophy has penetrated deep into the party.
judesedit
(4,443 posts)And how do you prevent an attack in this day and age? You have to stay on top of all electronic correspondence. How else? Wake up. If you're not a terrorist, a money launderer or a child porn freak, then what are you so worried about?
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)... which is both very sad and very scary.
"If a person is innocent of a crime, then he is not a suspect." -- Edwin Meese
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)The government is spying on millions of people, but they can't stop two guys that they had been warned about?
gulliver
(13,197 posts)I'll actually take the trade. People who don't stick are not worth keeping anyway.
MynameisBlarney
(2,979 posts)However, I will only vote for real progressives.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)struggle4progress
(118,379 posts)your future non-involvement?
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)cartach
(511 posts)stopbush
(24,397 posts)Hell, you may even want to join the Libertarians so you can just throw away your vote.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Many of you are completely clueless to what the RW plans to do to this country if they ever get back in complete control. It wont be pretty.
fjlovato
(29 posts)Oh you of little faith. Why jump off the ship when you don't know what is the damage? How was this harming anyone? Does it harm anyone to have the government know to whom and when a call was placed? Wait until you know somethings before you set your hair on fire but if you insist, don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. LOL (I think)
Phillyindy
(406 posts)This isn't party, its well beyond that. This is the nation protecting itself, right or wrong, and no party will stop it, ever. To give up on the good fight on all the issues where democrats are our last best hope is reactionary nonsense. No offense of course, I understand your frustration and passion.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)DallasNE
(7,404 posts)They like to pack up their toys and leave rather than stick around and try to work things out and that is exactly what you are doing here. Nobody likes the Patriot Act and that law was recently extended with little fanfare so why didn't speak out/resign then. As it is you are proving Jim DeMint right that Congress should not legislate because that exposes divisions and instead focus exclusively on scandals. Well, welcome to Jim DeMint's world. I hope it makes you happy.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)You're online, have a cell phone, use a bank card, and you worry about privacy? LMAO
Capn Sunshine
(14,378 posts)I'm not sure what privacy means any more in this electronic age. I do know that posts like the OP are just the epitome of why DU is not taken seriously by anyone. There's like 2 or 3 thousand people posting here who think out of 62 million voters they are a significant number.
randome
(34,845 posts)Thanks for cutting and running, 'hero'!
[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Why? Do you think that insult will make her stop posting things you dont like?
If you dont like what she posts, by all means attack the post. Attacking the poster is rude and should be hidden.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)for worrying about privacy. Go ahead and LYAO, but I will fight for every bit of privacy I can get.
DrewFlorida
(1,096 posts)Maat
(13,809 posts)Left it in January of 2009, after Obama assumed office and defended "indefinite detention." So, it's been 4-1/2 years now, and it continues to feel good.
Ganja Ninja
(15,953 posts)I forget what the name of the project is but it started way back before the Patriot Act. I think it goes all the way back to Carter or Reagen. They only need phone company records so they can prove it in court and not have to reveal their spying capabilities. And yes every phone call on planet Earth.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Which is NOTHING!
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,167 posts)There are think tanks that have burned themselves out because of the hard right moves of the past 10-30 years. It's going to take a long slow turn back, but it will be because there is a big engine doing it. Fragment, and we're a drift.
Chakaconcarne
(2,474 posts)where the hell are you going to go?
This is a snowball... no party affiliation needed. It's here to stay. Sucks, but it's true. Unless someone has a bright idea as to how to solve the problem and get it implemented.......I, personally have little hope.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)drama laced post? Wow!
el scorcho
(58 posts)Hippo_Tron
(25,453 posts)Yes, the President of the United States is the leader of the Democratic Party but that doesn't mean that the Democratic Party is following his lead. There are numerous Democrats who are critical of the President because his actions have been contradictory to our party's values.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)that spying is VERY old news go back a long time. From Russia with love.
Pisces
(5,602 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)sponsored by the Ruling Elite. We must run them out. Back to their own party.
Mkap
(223 posts)from the congressmen to your local dog catcher...hmm seems kind of harsh. The president serves the interest of the nation both conservative and democrat, not the interest of the left wing. Obama has always been a moderate democratic president as our most presidents cause a right wing / left wing extremist doesn't get re elected unless they cheat like George "lets close the polls early in democratic Cleveland" Bush
WillyT
(72,631 posts)And every camel's back... is unique...
DFW
(54,465 posts)I wrote and performed this for a bunch of "promis" with Bill Clinton in the front row about 3 feet in front of me---SEVEN YEARS AGO:
(Sung to the tune of "Listen to the Rhythm of The Falling Rain:"
Listen in on phone calls that your neighbor made
I know he doesn't look the part,
And though I cannot prove he's as Al Qaeda aide
His name is Al and that's a start
I tail him in his car, he thinks that I'm a fool
But let me tell you where he ran
He ate lunch in a restaurant called "Old Kabul"
And that is in Afghanistan
You call me paranoid, and that's O K
But watch your step 'cause I work for the NSA
I haven't put a camera in your bathroom yet, but I may
So, listen in on phone calls that your neighbor makes
It's not allowed, but don't tell me
We need to know the aspirin dosage that he takes
For national security
-------------------------------------
For what it's worth, Clinton laughed his head off.
On another note, the old East German regime over here collected data on all their citizens to the extent that they could. They had so much information, they drowned in it, never had enough people to process and act upon everything they knew.
matt819
(10,749 posts)What are you going to do? Vote for Ralph Nader? Vote R?
No question, this sucks. Obama had a chance to turn around the egregious power grab legislation enacted under Bush, and he failed. Miserably. And, sure, I hope that the next Democratic president undoes the damage. But running away and sulking? Give it a rest.
4bucksagallon
(975 posts)and I don't understand what the big deal is. If you think this is a "new" thing this NSA spying, what bridge have you been living under for the past 50 or 60 years. It is only because we have a "black man" in the White House that the extent of this is coming to light and you know it and I know it. I guess as an independent I should enroll as a "D" cause I am more in line with them then what I see on "Democratic Underground" unbelievably. Shit I remember NSA spying on us in Vietnam, where I served as an infantry soldier. Where was all the faux outrage then, I am sure you had it you just forgot to bring it. Many "black" Marines that I served with were tried and discharged after serving time in Portsmouth for marijuana, OMG pot. But hey they were black and they smoked pot, of course us "crackers" did too. This was at the height of the Black Panther, Black Power movement. Don't get me wrong I am not in favor of giving up all my rights to privacy but if I am on an electronic device, cell phone, PC, whatever and expect to be able to talk about building bombs, assassinations, oh I don't know but if I utter the key words I expect to be monitored. Obviously many of you have never lived in a "real" big brother world our military. I don't know what else to say except I am speechless that as an independent am more of a "D" then many that see posting here, this to me is the outrage.
Amonester
(11,541 posts)And it surely involves an unknown number of International treaties and bilateral accords by now.
As in 'global satellite-driven watching': http://www.democraticunderground.com/101665742
Anyone wanting to effectively shut THAT down better have some magic powers or they will fail 100%.
But, hey, where will the next age-old scandal emerge from since the President is half black?
Good catch.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,246 posts)Americans for Prosperity, or the Tea Party Express. Nice try though! You take 'em easy now, ya hear?
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)People post thread after thread after thread about this as if it were the most important thing in the world, but nobody gives a shit about the destruction of public education by this so-called Democrat or his and Congress's refusal to do anything about the economy, which is still in the shitter.
I just can't get over people's priorities sometimes.
Maat
(13,809 posts)Abuse of our rights and privacy is so important to me; I'm glad I now am a member of another board. The members agree with MY priorities. Frankly, I was surprised my old ID and password still worked. It's been years.
brooklynite
(94,852 posts)Township75
(3,535 posts)I think the people that are pissed are the ones that are more Democrat than liberal. They have a sports team (Dems) and support them and want them to win over the opposing team (Repubs), and what they are doing or winning isn't so important.
Obama is doing the same stuff Bush did as far as infringing rights and privacy, drilling everywhere, etc. Why is it so important to be part of that team???
tarheelsunc
(2,117 posts)just don't complain when, due to loss of support for the Democratic party, the Republicans start getting into office in droves and completely ban abortion, completely ban homosexuality, install "fair tax" codes that destroy the middle class and the poor, turn the USA into a theocracy where anyone who denies Christ becomes a mental patient, revert equal pay laws, openly discriminate against non-whites, and close the borders to all countries outside of Western Europe.