The earth is melting, the GOP is destroying the economy, and DU is worried about boob jokes.

[Dawgs]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by boston bean (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Is that about right?

Because, I remember a time when most of us could discuss adult issues without getting offended every time someone said bitch, penis, or boobs.

We argued a lot back then, but at least it was on issues that mattered - i.e. Hillary or Obama, Social Security, the Iraq War. Shit, even disagreements about Trayvon Martin and the Birthers is more important than this shit.

Can we at least try? Please?

[Cleita]

1. Ridiculous isn't it? n/t

[Hissyspit]

93. Many of the boob scenes in the song were from movies about sexual assault.

http://www.salon.com/2013/02/26/we_saw_your_boobs_is_a_celebration_of_rape_on_film

TUESDAY, FEB 26, 2013 01:10 PM EST
“We Saw Your Boobs” celebrates rape on film
Hey, Seth MacFarlane, did you know many of those "boob" scenes you sang about were depictions of sexual assault?
BY KATIE MCDONOUGH

I understand what McFarlane was attempting to do (I've seen almost every Family Guy episode), but it is certainly worth discussion on whether it was effective or not. (See Post #79.)

[Cleita]

103. I guess I'm depraved. I thought the song was hilarious.

It was teasing the actresses about being undressed, not about whether the scene was about rape. Every actress who bares it all for the screen knows she's going to get remarks on it both good and bad. It goes with the job. I had an argument recently about this with a male neighbor who seems to think all actresses who do naked in the movies are sluts. No, they are not sluts. It's part of the job. Just about every actress who came after Brigitte Bardot has had to do it at one time or another. To make it seem like a shameful thing is what's wrong, not a silly song about it.

[Hissyspit]

106. I thought the stuff with Captain Kirk was funnier.

I'm not sure where you get that complaining about the song is making "it seem like a shameful thing," unless I'm missing your point. And no one, not even the author of the article I linked, would consider you depraved.

But my point is that you just brought up a bunch of issues about it and we are intelligently discussing it, which seems to make it worthy of discussion which is what the OP seems to have a problem with.

[Cleita]

108. Other than the remark I made that you answered to, I have not discussed the boob issue because

I agree with the OP that we have really dire issues of global warming and an idiot Congress to worry about. I will let the actresses determine how offended they were and surely they have better access to MacFarlane to give him a piece of their minds than we do if they really were that offended.

[Ian David]

2. It's not like we can't walk and chew boobs at the same time.

I mean gum.

Did I say boobs?

[truebrit71]

4. YOU SAID BOOBS!!! I'M GOING TO ALERT ON YOU, YOU SEXIST MISOGYNISTIC PIG!!!

[Ian David]

11. ...

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

34. .

[Arkana]

74. I mean walk and fondle gum at the same time.

....dammit.

[truebrit71]

3. Nailed it in one. Oh dammit, I'm probably in trouble for saying "nailed it" now...

...you know, because it could be construed as being a misogynistic phrase only used by filthy men..


Do I need the thingy?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. Didn't Lincoln and Douglas debate the same issue?

Or, was that the Great Foreskin Debate?

[graham4anything]

28. Seth used Lincoln's death as a joke object in 2013. That alone was bad enough.

It was his lack of being funny that was his downfall.

(BTW, Bruno Ganz should have won an Oscar years ago for his portrayal in Downfall, one of the best acting of all time)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

50. I never even heard of the guy until his appearance here on DU.

From the sound of his "humor" it appears I didn't miss anything.

[MynameisBlarney]

55. He's not funny on stage really

But Family Guy is hilarious.

[tclambert]

60. Lincoln? He was some kind of celebrity back in the 1800s.

Must have been on radio. He didn't have the looks for TV or movies.

[bamacrat]

51. 150 years and still too soon, eh? n/t

[Spitfire of ATJ]

53. Agreed. It's almost like the cameras went back in time.

[Orrex]

57. You're mad about a Lincoln joke 150 years after he died? Really?

I suppose that I should withhold my joke about Socrates, then, in case it's too soon for some people.

[graham4anything]

62. On a show that has a President's wife on it, it is most distasteful.

Especially with 10% of the country a bunch of nut jobs who parade around with guns all the times.

[Orrex]

90. Hmm. Good point.

Though I think that your 10% estimate is a bit low.

[graham4anything]

91. Yeah.

[Summer Hathaway]

149. After 150 years, yes, I still get pissed off about it!!!

No, not really.

I think the problem I had with the Lincoln joke was that it was in rather poor taste given the shooting deaths that have permeated the news - Sandy Hook, Aurora, etc. - events that are still very fresh in people's minds.

It didn't get a big laugh anyway - and could have been replaced with a much funnier line about Lincoln, and much less of a painful reminder of gun-related deaths.

Just my two cents.

[John1956PA]

99. Yes! The film Downfall with Ganz's portrayal of Hitler ranks among the greatest movie achievements.

It is my hope that the movie Downfall (2004) will eventually gain the broad-based recognition is deserves. Bruno Ganz's stellar portrayal of Hitler amazed me when I watched the move on DVD six years ago. Occasionally, I reflect on his performance and continue to rank it among the best of all time.

[Veri1138]

123. "Stalingrad" 1993 IMDB...

In German, with Romanian and Ukrainian sub-titles with an English voice over. Haven't seen "Downfall", however.

[Scootaloo]

6. And you're worried about DU'ers worried about boob jokes

So where does that put you on this totem pole of concern?

[Trajan]

134. And you're worried about DUers worried about DUers ...

worried about boob jokes ? ...

Indeed ... your 'concern' is just as troublesome as anyone else's ....

[Scootaloo]

138. Difference is, I'm not pretending my concern holds me back from saving the world

Which is Dawg's initial point - "WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THIS WHEN OTHER THINGS ARE HAPPENING?!?!"

Nope, disgust with MacFarlane singing and dancing onstage mocking female actresses probably isn't the most important thing in the world. Nor is the vast majority of anything else discussed on DU.

Yet we persist in talking about all sorts of things that are apparently not related to Dawg's own deep concerns (He's so concerned that he can't bring himself to start a thread on those subjects; they injure him so deeply).

What awful, naughty people we are

[cliffordu]

7. Nope: The first thing is we have to prove to EVERYONE

that men are scum.

[Sheldon Cooper]

8. Well, some of us are able to think about more than one thing at a time.

[LanternWaste]

9. I would think many posters on DU may easily concern themselves...

I would think many posters on DU may easily concern themselves with a rather wide-range of different issues. Although I do realize that the few individuals who are unable to do that will often incorrectly project their personal limitation onto others.



As an aside, which "adult issues" have "bitch, penis, or boobs" as prerequisites to be adult issues?

[Dawgs]

14. You're right, but we are seeing a lot more "concern" threads lately on things that matter little.

It just seems to be getting a little out of hand.

[whathehell]

52. Did you ever consider that though they may "matter little" to you

they may matter a LOT to someone else ?..That you may not be

the final arbiter of the extent to which something "matters"?

[Dawgs]

65. They should matter little to everyone when MUCH BIGGER ISSUES face us.

Unless you think winning an argument on boob jokes is more important than winning back the House so we can fix the economy and try to save the world from ending in 50 years.

[whathehell]

68. Sure...You could probably make the same argument to a Black man

about the importance of "nigger jokes", or to a gay man about

"fag jokes" but when it is YOU who is being demeaned and

ridiculed for perhaps the millionth time in your female life,

you just MIGHT see things a bit differently!

[Dawgs]

109. No you couldn't make the same argument to a black man, because it wouldn't make any sense.

I never said that woman shouldn't be outraged, or that they should shut up.

Maybe this is the problem with the new DU, comprehension. Someone posts something that 80% get and 20% don't want to get.

I think I'm figuring it out.

And thanks for implying that I would be okay with "nigger" and "gay" jokes.

[whathehell]

124. Why not?

Explain that to us....How does it not "make sense"?

Why is it okay to demean women with the word "bitch",

but NOT okay to slur a person for their race or sexual orientation?

Race and Gender, at least, are BOTH conditions of birth...Why are insults

to one "important", but insults to the other not?

Until you can explain THAT you haven't "figured out" anything.


P.S. Who says "80 percent of DU "gets" what you're saying, while 20 percent

doesn't?...Where do you get those figures from, this thread?

If so, I can only say that you do have a bit more "thinking through" to do,
since at LEAST 80 percent, of those on THIS thread are male, and that makes sense given the predominant sentiment here, but men do not represent "80 percent" of DU. I don't know if there's ever been a gender breakdown for
DU, but It's a known fact that most democrats are FEMALE, not male.

[JustAnotherGen]

80. I'm actually glad to see this posted

As a woman - I"m far more concerned about the lack of women in Executive Positions in that industry and overall in America . . . How we make far less than our male counterparts.


As for Seth and his jokes - next year get Fey and Poehler and all will be resolved.

[randome]

96. And when they make boob jokes, where will the outrage go?

[Warren DeMontague]

76. remember when that guy posted the cartoon of Superman dropping Lois Lane?

People didn't take that seriously, either. It was horrible.

You remember that, right?

[NCTraveler]

10. And you are concerned about what du is concerned about.

Kind of funny.

[Dawgs]

13. I know, right?

[Ian David]

12. You know, Hitler liked boobs. n/t

[Luminous Animal]

15. Most people can walk and chew gum at the same time. Thank you for your concern.

[Dawgs]

18. Who said they can't? And, I think you and a few others are missing my point entirely.

Not surprising in this place. Been here long enough to see everything.

[MineralMan]

16. Well, my niece's new baby is downright obsessed with boobs.

Starts at birth, I guess...

[Note: I accidentally posted this in another thread, and self-deleted. Silly me.]

[Dreamer Tatum]

17. Show us your tits first.

IT'S CALLED A JOKE.

[Dawgs]

20. Was 'IT'S CALLED A JOKE' directed at me? n/t

[NightWatcher]

19. And FLOTUS was on the Oscars. Don't forget that teeth gnasher

[Dawgs]

21. Yep. Same damn thing.

[SoCalDem]

22. Once we lost our "bad guy" (GW), the cohesiveness fled the place

along with many oldtimers, as the outrage-du-jour became the norm..

It's hard sometimes to have reasoned/researched discourse without having the thread hijacked by someone with a big ole ax to grind

[Dawgs]

23. Maybe, but it seems like it's gotten much worse in the past year or so.

Oh well, I guess I'll have to visit my other progressive sites to get discussion on shit that matters to me.

[MindPilot]

56. I agree with you there

This is not a discussion forum any more. Now most threads look like this:

"here's what I think..."

You're wrong.

You're stupid.

You are a Republican mole finally showing yourself after 12 years.

You should be in jail for hate speech!

Gunky!

Dipwad!

Retard!

Alert!

[Dawgs]

66. LOL!!

I love you.

[HereSince1628]

24. Yep, it's about priorities

People's priorities are able to change the world. Not always for the better.

[randome]

25. God, I miss Occupy.

What about a good 'let's legalize all drugs' thread?

Have the police done anything stupid lately?

Are the drones coming for us yet? (Heh. I bet some would vote to send one at MacFarlane.)

Oh! Oh! I know! Someone interview Julian Assange for his opinion on Seth MacFarlane!

[Hissyspit]

95. Yes, we know.

Everything you think is not worth discussing is silly.

Occupy was, in part, suppressed by corrupt Democratic politicians.

Our drone policy and it's potential abuse is a serious issue.

As far as I know, Assange doesn't care about Seth MacFarlane and no one thinks he does.

[randome]

114. Oh, I DO think this is worth a discussion.

But I don't see it as worth the level of discourse it receives. I'm male but I have two very intelligent 15 y/o daughters and I have no problem with simply saying, "Meh" to just about anything Seth MacFarlane says or does.

[datasuspect]

26. it's the outrage trolls

you can tell they are a troll when they parrot caricatures of left wing/liberal/progressive ideals and use the TOS to disrupt.


this place is fucking infested with them.

[libodem]

54. Yup

I've been too, scared to print that out loud, but that is how I see it.

[southernyankeebelle]

27. Well I don't know what is everyone upset about boobs. They are apart of everyone's body.

If it was concerning the Boob song on Oscar night I thought it was very funny. People need to get over it. We all need a good laugh. Am a woman and I didn't find it offensive.

[HappyMe]

29. I'm right there with you.

In the grand scheme of life, this doesn't set off any alarms with me.

[southernyankeebelle]

147. Me neither. Heck you seen one boob you seen them all, LOL.

[The Straight Story]

30. Threads about yemen covering up our drone attacks sink like a rock

Next time I will include some boob pics (is boob as a word acceptable or should I use something more scientific? I need an app to help filter my posts and black out words I can't use for me, just to be sure)

[Dawgs]

67. Exactly. Three responses on the important topics, and 100+ when someone gets their feelings hurt.

[MindPilot]

84. Alert! Alert! He said "boob"!1111!!!!

and "Black"...he said "Black" without capitalizing it. That is racist!

[mikeysnot]

31. I love boobs.

The more boobs I see the better. Even if it was a hoax, seeing my wifes breasts makes my day.

[cally]

32. Ummm, that's not what I remember

at all and I've been here a long time. I've also been told way too long that when feminist issues and treating women with respect are not as important as other issues. Well, they are. It's about our lives and the life we live every day. How do you expect women to work on climate change, economic issues, civil rights without receiving respect and concern for our lives.

by the way, you seem to have missed the endless threads and discussion about rape, calling women cunt, bitch, pussy and frequently told that bitch slap is such a funny funny work. Yeah, right. It's in the DU archives if your interested in the history of feminist debate on this site.

[Chemisse]

40. With all those seriously offensive posts,

I wonder why anyone would diminish their importance by putting 'boobs' in along with them.

[Dawgs]

69. Ugh! Exactly what I'm talking about. A boob joke is not the same as rape, or calling a woman cunt.

If it is then we are never going to accomplish anything.

And, I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth.

[cally]

133. No but it is very

Insensitive to those offended by a sexist skit to be told that other issues are more important. If you know the history of the women's movement then you know there is a long history of women being told to wait there turn and focus on other issues first before voicing there concerns. That's what I found do offensive about your post.

[redstatebluegirl]

33. Quoting Admiral Fitzwallace in the "West Wing"

I have too many real life battles to fight to worry about the cosmetic ones. I found it offensive and bad taste, but we get bogged down in cosmetic feminist issues when we should be worried about the hard issues; inequity in wages, job promotions and the law in general.

I am not a feminist who comes unglued when I hear a joke in bad taste. I do come unglued when I hear a woman has been raped with no justice, when a woman can't make enough money to feed her family, when a woman doing the same job as a man gets paid half as much, when a woman's husband holds her an emotional hostage. Gloria may not agree but that is how I feel.

[alarimer]

141. That joke in bad taste is just a symptom of deep-seated misogyny

Something I've often seen in Hollywood and even here.

"It's just a joke, lighten up" diminishes the fact these jokes come from a bad place. Is it the worst thing ever? No.

Nobody is unglued. A lot of those references in that song were to movies that portrayed very serious topics like rape, which should be no laughing matter.

Nobody on this thread really gets why this is an issue.

[leftyohiolib]

35. not now ,now everyone is in a perpetual state of offense,

[knightmaar]

36. No. Stop that.

Small problems should not be ignored because of bigger problems.
Even assuming that there is one almighty arbiter of "small" vs "big" problems.
Maybe the marginalization of half the human race is a "small" problem to some of those who belong to the other half of the human race.
But let's grant you, for the sake of argument, that the objectification of women is a smaller problem than global warming.
So what?
Women should just shut up until we've fixed global warming, the national debt, terrorism, voter fraud, air pollution and low mileage vehicles?
They should just wait until *men* have decided that all the *real* problems are solved so that the threshold for "shit we care about" is now below "treating women like human beings"?

How about this?
Your difficulty voting is nothing compared to starving children in Somalia, so why don't you just shut up about voting irregularities until we solve gang rape in India, starvation in Africa and protection from meteors?

[wryter2000]

45. Thank you!`

What you said.

Welcome to DU!

[knightmaar]

58. You're welcome

I don't really have an opinion on the song, since I didn't watch the Oscars - or any TV at all - last night.
It might have been offensive. It might have been a satirical play on American drooling-over-breasts culture.
I wouldn't know without watching.
I just saw that argument in the headline and couldn't stand it.

[Dawgs]

72. What? You're comparing voting irregularities to a boob joke?

Or are you saying that I did? WTH!

And quit putting words in my mouth. I NEVER said that woman should shut up.

I didn't say anything about woman at all.

[knightmaar]

78. It's in your title

Maybe I misunderstood.
The title is "The earth is melting, the GOP is destroying the economy, and DU is worried about boob jokes."
You seemed to have declared yourself to be arbiter of what is worthy discussion and what is not. Your title implies that we should not be worried about "boob jokes" because there are more pressing concerns.
Is this incorrect?
What did you mean to say in your post if it wasn't "stop worrying about trivial issues of sexism because other things are more important"?

This would be a good time for clarification and I will apologize for misunderstanding you.

On edit:
I didn't say boob jokes were like voting irregularities. I said that saying:
"Ignore boob jokes because of global warming"
is like
"Ignore voting problems because of starving people.

[Dawgs]

97. 'DU is worried about boob jokes' is NOT saying that it shouldn't be discussed.

But, if you actually read and comprehended what I wrote, instead of assuming, then you might not have gotten so angry.

Try to read it a third time and see if it sinks in.

[knightmaar]

128. I've read it several times

I get what you're saying. You're saying that you want to debate the really big issues of the day. Police violence. Foreign Wars. Debt ceiling. Sequestration. Racism.

Some people think that sexism should be in that list of major political issues, and that sexism is a function of day to day behaviours.

But every time I read your OP, I see this: "Shit, even disagreements about Trayvon Martin and the Birthers is more important than this shit. "

"This shit" would seem to be "boob jokes" and it isn't just us misunderstanding the tone of what you wrote, but rather reading what you literally wrote:

"Shit, even disagreements about Trayvon Martin and the Birthers is more important than this shit."

More. Important. Than. This. Shit.

It sounds like you're belittling the concerns of a large number of the members here, regarding a serious problem in your society.

[Tumbulu]

151. Excellent reply!

And you said it much better than I would have.

Thank you!

[Indepatriot]

37. McFarlane is a juvenile comedian who was LAMPOONING HOLLYWOOD/AMERICA'S OBSESSION WITH BREASTS

Also, there are two interesting switches on your remote. One changes the channel, the other is the OFF switch. This poutrage is the kind of stuff that often makes DU much too freeper-like for my taste. Personally, I'm "outraged" that so many people even watch the Hollywood Wankfest in the first place. Get A Life already....

[Taverner]

38. What the hell is wrong with boob jokes?

They're one of the last things we can joke about!

And BTW, men have boobs too and when they do, it's freakin' hilarious!

[Chemisse]

44. I don't care for boob jokes.

But maybe that's because I am a heterosexual female; they simply don't interest me.

But jokes about male anatomy (including man-boobs) can be pretty funny to me. Despite that I certainly don't feel I am sexist; I just have a healthy interest in sex.

[whathehell]

87. What no one "gets" here is that sometimes the Other Half of

Humanity gets tired of hearing virtually EVERYTHING from only

the male perspective, as if it's the Only Truth...Tired of

jokes about their "boobs" and other parts of their anatomy.

You might compare it to how Black people must feel seeing almost

EVERYTHING from a White perspective.

How about some Small Dick humor?...Some Limp Dick jokes,

and if we really want to go for it, some Castration Anxiety?

Now THAT would be funny!

[Taverner]

100. I'm a hetero male, and dick jokes are almost always funny too

Except for that paper cut story....(shudder)

[whathehell]

132. Yeah, well, you see, it depends on one's "standing" in the world

The dominant group can afford to be less sensitive than the

less dominant group.

The dynamics are similar to the difference in impact

of a black guy calling a white guy "honky" and a white person

calling a black guy "nigger".

Because of the power and "status" differential, the latter is far

more impactive than the former. The less powerful, less

valued group is obviously more vulnerable to insult and/or ridicule

than the more powerful, more valued group.

[Taverner]

140. Yes, but I don't think joking about body parts should be offensive

20000 years of evolution has given us some pretty goofy parts

Fingers - ever see them fing?

[Initech]

39. It's the outrage du jour!

Offensive, inappropriate humor is what Seth MacFarlane does for a living. If you don't like it change the channel.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

41. Remember Beyonce at the Super Bowl?

No....this too shall pass.

But Michelle Obama presenting awards....there's some real fucking outrage from the masters of it....the right.

[Dpm12]

42. I agree

if you watched the whole thing, you would have known that it was a joke that was meant to make MacFarlane "worst Oscar host ever" and Shatner was not wanting that to happen. How it is offensive I don't get, those women's boobs DID show in those movies. If you watched that whole opening, you would have understood the joke.

[madinmaryland]

43. I think we need a discussion on man-boobs.

[bunnies]

94. moobs.

[CTyankee]

46. You are attempting to pull the oldest misognist slur in the world. We're supposed to have

a "sense of humor" about sexist shit that men want to say and who are we to object? I've heard this crappy stuff all my adult life and let me tell you something: it makes you look stupid. Not cute. Not handsome. Not clever.

All the men in my family are feminists and they would be appalled and probably say a few things I wouldn't say to you. These are fabulous men with fabulous wives and daughters. I've always felt that our little secret is that the best men are strong supporters of feminism and they always get the best women as partners...and you can take that to the bank...

[Dawgs]

75. WTF!! Where did I say that the boob joke was fine, or funny, or anything at all?

I'm really starting to wonder about the ability of some to comprehend what they are reading.

[CTyankee]

83. I'm reacting to your OP. If I am irony impaired over this, let me know and I'll happily and

joyfully apologize to you for my mistake. At first blush, I read it as a put down on women here objecting to sexism. If you are making a serious point, using irony, I can appreciate that. But on its face, it read differently.

Please clarify. I don't really go around yelling at people here nor do I want to...

[Dawgs]

86. No problem. My OP is more about DU in general than any particular topic (like the boob joke). n/t

[CTyankee]

104. I thought the routine on the Oscars was more on the irony side myself. But I know and respect

women who did not think it was funny or nonsexist. So I listen to women's voices.

There is a fine line when we are complaining about nonserious stuff on DU. At first blush, I thought you were singling out the boob joke, out of LOTS of stuff that we could be singling out.

I wish sexism were so far in the past that we could be talking about lots of other things all the time. That would be nice, wouldn't it.

So, my apologies for taking your point wrong. Please understand where it comes from...

[LuckyTheDog]

79. I think Seth MacFarlane was making a joke about himself being a shallow jerk

That song reminded me of a "Family Guy" episode with two guys discussing movies. All they could talk about where the nude scenes, which they had timed to the second, as in "and 17 minutes, 14 seconds in, she took her shirt off."

In that scene, the joke was about what TOTAL LOSERS those guys were because that's all they bothered to notice about any movie.

I took the "boob song" skit to be an attempt at the same kind of irony. That's what Seth MacFarlane does -- he portrays complete losers doing the kinds of inappropriate things that losers do and say.

Not everyone gets the joke. Some people who get the joke don't appreciate it or think it is funny.

And that is probably why MacFarlane probably should not have been in front of a large, general audience. His stuff lives mainly on the Cartoon Network's Adult Swim. That's where it belongs.

[eggplant]

47. nipples cause global warming n/t

so yay for global warming!

[bamacrat]

48. Don't you know it's more important to scream with fake outrage than to actually

worry about things that matter. Offensive things are funny, when they are meant to be. Everyone wants to search for a chance to fly their PC flag and cry sexism or racism over things that are not worth the energy to protest. Oh no Seth Mcfarland pointed out that women show their boobs in movies sometimes. What a sexist piece of shit. Doesn't he know they should be called humanoid fatty chest deposits. Boobs is a sexist slur used to hold women down... wait women call them boobs too? Oh, and they weren't forced to show them but actually paid handsomely for showing said humanoid fatty chest deposits. Misogynist.

[knightmaar]

73. This seems to be an exaggeration

I haven't heard any screaming. I don't see any inconsistencies that would indicate a "fake" outrage or really even anything that rises to the level of "outrage".
Turning women into the sum of their body parts *is* a problem.
For thus is the road to Steubenville paved, after all.
Whether or not this song contributes to the culture of turning women into things is up for debate, and it's an important debate, if you care about women having equality and, y'know, not being raped.

[bamacrat]

107. :eyerollsmilie:

Yes because not having a problem with someone pointing out the fact that some women show their boobs in movies is the same as not caring if they are raped.

Women have a lot of power in those body parts. I always thought feminists wanted to promote women as the equal, great and wonderful creatures they are. Be proud of your boobs, men love them and will act stupid around them. Women like them too, straight and gay. Women also have vagina's and we all have seen the power of those.

Somewhere along the way feminism has been hijacked by the people who think there shouldn't be differences between men and women. No longer is equal pay and rights good enough, women have to be viewed as humans and humans only, there are men and those who men oppress. To point out the parts they have that makes them different from men has become some form of sexism.

Women have done many great things in human history. But, to say their parts don't make them women is the fake outrage I mentioned. Their anatomy is what makes them women. People who have vaginas and boobs are naturally women. People with penises are men. Now that we have that covered...

Feminism has been taken over by the masculine women in the crowd. (and yes I realize I said masculine, as in displaying the traits of a man. I meant it too) There are many feminists who are proud to have boobs and wear dresses and do their hair and nails, who like men and don't want to be viewed physically equal to a man. Champion women's rights all day long, but women who are pretty, like being pretty and enjoy the parts of their body that make them feminine, are not being stupid or wrong. You can be for equality without denying that men and women are different. They are made with different parts. Men are typically more aggressive, stronger and more emotionally distant, but that is the norm. I know I know norms are what is wrong with our country.....

Women are advancing in society every day. They already outnumber men in colleges and overall population. Granted they were oppressed for a long time and that isn't right. It isn't right they get paid less for the same work. But if we want all things equal without any preferential treatment given to anyone based on their gender we should get rid of maternity leave. I know, I know, giving birth takes a lot out of the woman and is a difficult thing to go through. But we are supposed to be equals, no benefits given to one and not the other. Your argument that this song, or anyone pointing out someone showing their boobs is sexist is the fake outrage. Even if its not screamed, its fake.

You may believe it, but in reality, your objections are met with real world :eyerollsmilies:

[knightmaar]

135. That's a lot of straw women

I wish I had time to explain all of this, but I don't.

Feminism is none of the things you've mentioned here. It's not "masculine" women, it hasn't been hijacked and it's not about taking over.

It's about recognizing women as more than their body parts. When you participate in turning women into things, you help pave the roads in the world where women don't have value beyond how pretty they are and whether they can be cajoled into putting out, whether it be through coercion, alcohol or drugs.

Try this on your tongue: "Don't worry son. As long as you're handsome, nothing else matters."

Not quite a sentence, is it? Sure, it parses grammatically, but who would actually say that?

We say it to little girls, though, don't we?

I once watched a dolled-up princess come to a girl's birthday and tell the girls that a princess "looks pretty for her prince, talks about how she met her prince and has servants to take care of her." I think that's when it clicked for me. Like, Holy shit, I can't believe that just happened.

That's what we're fighting against. Women aren't taking over. Feminism hasn't been hijacked. Women aren't pretending they're identical to men. They're looking for equality and recognition in society beyond the sexual pleasure they can bring to men.

[trishtrash]

49. From an old time card- carrying feminist...

Aside from the fact that it wasn't particularly funny, I was not offended by the song. Let's concentrate on the important stuff while respecting everyone's right to express their particular take on the little things.

[TDale313]

112. ^^^ this ^^^

[Dawgs]

115. Couldn't agree more.

[wendylaroux]

59. I know what ya mean,

I am racked with worry.

[Indepatriot]

63. "RACKED".....you SEXIST PIG!!!!

[Egalitarian Thug]

61. Reflective of America in general. n/t

[rocktivity]

64. It was a remake of Mean Girls around here yesterday

The right-wing meltdown over Michelle's Oscar appearance was business as usual for the Rethugs -- just another variation of the terrorist fist bump, and speeches to schoolchildren suddenly becoming form of socialist indoctrination. Sad to see in this day and age that some of us took the bait by turning Michelle's Oscar appearance into a dissertation on the military-industrial complex.


rocktivity

[Skip Intro]

70. I remember that time too.

pre-2007 was cool too.

So many threads where the free exchange of ideas and opinions was celebrated, and educational. Now you can expect to be attacked and called all sorts of things for not walking lockstep.

Hell, there's a poster here who tells everyone who reads every post he posts that supporters of the 2nd Amendment "are racist, sexist, homophobic and white-supremacist," In his sig line. At the bottom of every post he posts.

Things ain't like they used to be here.

[jollyreaper2112]

71. I am offended

I thought that we all are supposed to be liberal progressives here and yet you are watching mass media entertainment? No, not even. It's an awards show about movies that might have been entertaining with commercials thrown in. That people watched it was offensive. The content itself is hardly relevant.

I am alerting the whole thread!

Half-sarcasm, half serious. And speaking of boob jokes, how about Lindsey Graham? Add in McCasshole and Boner, we've got enough body parts for an episode of South Park.

[LittleBlue]

77. Agreed. It's getting absolutely silly. nt

[Dawgs]

81. For the record, I didn't watch the Grammys.

I like Seth McFarlane. He's crude, but he's a hard-core liberal that isn't afraid to let everyone know that he is.

I watched the clip of the boob joke and thought it was stupid, not funny, and awkward.

Nowhere in my OP did I say that woman shouldn't be offended or should keep their mouth shut about any topic.

Carry on.

[d_b]

82. it's great, isn't it?

[gollygee]

85. Can we at least try? Not when we're being dismissed.

We keep bringing stuff up because we keep getting dismissed. Start listening and maybe we won't feel like we have to keep talking.

[Dawgs]

88. Dismissed. Really? This is all we see on DU anymore. It's the only thing that people discuss.

And I'm sorry, but that lame boob joke and Michelle Obama at the grammys should not be taking over the entire site.

[gollygee]

89. There's always been a mix of big news and lighter news

And I've never seen such concern about quieting it until some women started complaining about sexism.

[Dawgs]

101. But there isn't a mix now. It's all outrage, all of the time.

There is almost no discussion of politics or issues anymore.

If that's what DU wants to be, then fine. But don't pretend that there is a mix now.

[gollygee]

105. I just counted

and at that moment there were 71 threads on the front page of GD about something else.

[Moonwalk]

125. Taking over the entire site? Hm. Hyperbolize much?

Out of 76 "Latest" threads seven are on the topic of Michelle Obama or the boobs joke. And three of those are THIS thread. That's currently--it could change of course in the next minute or so, but I really doubt that we're going to go over, say 8-10 per 80 threads. Hardly the "entire site." I see far more threads on the Sequester issue than on anything else. Also on racism, GOP lies, and health care. So I'd say that the DU is doing its job and discussing very serious and important things.

I'd also say that that whether the joke was "gotten" or not, the discussion over it shows that women are tired of the acceptance of a fifth-grade mentality of jokes at their expense--and that includes such "joking" made by trolls on various sites which is not joking at all but serious misogyny. This is what's coming out in these discussions. Hardly a frivolous topic.

In the end, I'd say that if the boob song is the tipping point that makes women and men start to reject such misogyny as unacceptable then those DU threads are doing their job. Sometimes small, seemingly stupid things are the final straw, the opening of the door to something large and more important--to big changes even. If we start to see a sea change in regards to such misogyny thanks this crazy and over-the-top outrage over the boob song, then I'd say the discussions did their job here on the DU and elsewhere. Even if they didn't take over the entire site.

[cali]

92. No. It's not about right. It's not even in the same zip code.

You have so missed the point that it's not even worth discussing it with you. Eloquent essays have been written and published in The Guardian, in the New Yorker and other outlet. They've been posted here and they explain what it's about.

[Dawgs]

102. Promoting your own posts is pretty pathetic.

And you've completely missed my point.

[cali]

110. wow. brilliant. almost as insightful as your op.

And no, I"m not promoting my own post. duh. Why would I? It doesn't need it.

Oh, and I think I've got it, dear: YOU think sexism is trivial.

You made that clear as can be.

[Dawgs]

119. Nope. Don't think sexism is trivial.

I think this particular 'boob joke' was dumb, not funny, and awkward. I also understand how some could see it as sexist.

And, I also didn't say that it shouldn't be discussed.

Anything else you want to make up that I could respond to?

And you were promoting your own OP. Quite pathetic.

[cali]

126. you clearly do think sexism is trivial and you indulge yourself in that. that is not only

pathetic, but disgusting. Your disclaimer shares a lot in common with certain, er, types, dear.

One more time, in simple words, for you: This wasn't about a boob joke. Now go inform yourself and read some of the excellent articles that have been published today. Oh never mind that would be like telling certain people to better inform themselves on racism. They don't think they're racist just because they laugh at jokes that demean black people.

[Matariki]

113. I think Cali gets your point just fine

It's just not a good point.

[Dawgs]

120. Okay, you cali and a couple of others didn't get it.

No problem.

[Matariki]

144. Get what? That you don't think women deserve equality and respect?

That you're incapable of listening to actual women when they tell you that jokes about boobs at a place that is supposed to be honoring artistic work of men and women is sexist, demeaning, and inappropriate?

Is that what we 'didn't get'???

[cali]

127. We just don't get it. Couldn't possibly be the OP condoning sexist crap.

[NeeDeep]

98. Let's all let our hair grow loooong, and get neked!

Lot'o thin skin, too much for me. People make formal complaints expecting DU to 'fix it', wasting everyone's time and just kicking up dust. Can't stand the 'politically correctness' some people want to impose on us using the rules. The control freaks that are incapable of expansive thought exit on the Right!

[Matariki]

117. Why do people always cry 'political correctness' when the targets of so-called jokes speak up?

When the people affected by 'joke's that are sexist or racist explain that what's being said is hurtful and explain why it's hurtful.

Why don't people have the decency to allow the targets of those so-called jokes to have a voice to say what is hurting them and why?

[NeeDeep]

131. No one is taking away your voice

and no one is being indecent. You are thin skinned and the problem this thread is about. There are other issues much more important here than your need for attention!

[Matariki]

143. You have a very self centered attitude and are a great example of what I'm talking about

You're so completely oblivious to your own sense of entitlement and privilege that it's impossible for you to understand, or hear, what the people who are outside of your priviledged class have to say about what affects them directly.

You do have a choice you know. You could listen to what those people have to say instead of treating them with scorn. Or you could just keep your head up your entitled and privileged ass.

I've got news for you - women's issues aren't 'unimportant', aren't 'less important' than whatever your concerns are, aren't going away, aren't merely a woman's 'need for attention', and we're not going to just shut up to make you feel more comfortable.

Your insults are transparent and pathetic.

[Matariki]

111. Because disrespect of women is SUCH a non issue.

It's easy to be dismissive of issues that impact others but not oneself. It's easy for those issues to look petty and inconsequential if one is a member of a privileged class that isn't directly affected by stuff like sexism or racism and so forth.

But we can at least try.

Those weren't 'boob jokes' at the Oscars. That was a symptom of much broader problem the dismisses the value of women to nothing more than their looks. That routinely won't take women's accomplishments, talents, and efforts seriously.

And that matters to some people here at DU anyway.

http://www.vulture.com/2013/02/why-seth-macfarlanes-misogyny-matters.html

[randome]

118. But is a joke in bad taste equivalent to disrespect?

Seth MacFarlane's stock in trade is to be insulting and foul-mouthed. He's no better than Daniel Tosh, IMO. Why does anyone expect better of either of them?

[Matariki]

122. In a night supposedly dedicated to honoring people's accomplishments it was

Instead of honoring women for what they've DONE, he attempted to reduce their value to their looks and body parts - in the guise of 'jokes'.

All the more bitter given the gender inequity of the film industry - those 'jokes' just served to rub women's faces in the unfairness of it all.

[randome]

146. Okay, I see your point.

[sellitman]

116. Cheese Tits N/T

[just1voice]

121. It's not DU, it's the overall population that's heavily propagandized

and many don't even know it. Those that aren't aware of the influence of propaganda repeat the propaganda as if it's actual information that people care about. Many people are easily duped and government and corporate propagandists have perfected duping them.

I call things like the Oscars "popaganda", pop music and entertainment passed off as real news. The sexist, racist and war-mongering issues that people raise regarding the Oscars are real but the Oscars itself is just another heavily corporate propaganda show that is bound to broadcast whatever they think will sell regardless of any actual issues that matter to people and their lives.

"Zero Dark Thirty" shows just how deep the propaganda is at the Oscars.

[redqueen]

129. Degrading women is a HUGE problem Maybe if half the population wasn't so underrepresented

in the halls of power, things might not have gone this way.

Women are people, and deserve to be treated with respect, not the butt of jokes about body parts.

[redqueen]

137. In support of my argument...

http://www.thenation.com/article/158279/most-feminist-place-world

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/c347a766-994b-11dd-9d48-000077b07658,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2Fc347a766-994b-11dd-9d48-000077b07658.html&_i_referer=

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/22/iceland-women

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/a-nordic-revolution-the-heroines-of-reykjavik-7658212.html

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/cleaning-up-the-men-s-mess-iceland-s-women-reach-for-power-a-620544.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/iceland/4544331/Iceland-women-end-age-of-testosterone.html

From the country where the production and distribution of porn is already illegal, and a ban on violent porn on the net is in the works.

[Warpy]

130. Making the world a hostile place for half the human race

is rather important. You might not think so if you're not in that half of the human race, but it is.

No country has ever really succeeded if it has kept half its population in virtual slavery, excluded from public life and voiceless, whether reinforced by law or constant humiliation.

It wasn't just a boob joke. It was an overall sense that women had crashed a party, that women didn't belong, that women had done nothing of note.

That's the point.

[WinkyDink]

136. So you started a thread NOT about one of your important topics. All-righty, then.

[ZombieHorde]

139. Oh no! Some people have different values than you do!!!

Some people care more about equality, which is the subtext of the boob jokes, than your favorite issues. Holy fuck!!!!!! Your subjective list of priorities isn't always the center of attention. This is some serious shit. I would suggest making an OP about it, but you are already on top of that. Good job.

[ljm2002]

142. The earth is melting, the GOP is destroying the economy, and you're sitting on your arse...

...posting on a message board.

Is that about right?

Look, boob, I'll try to keep it simple: sexism is a real issue, and if we had less of that, there's a good chance we'd have less problems with the environment and the GOP.

Women are losing their rights as we speak: the patriarchy is lashing out in what is hopefully its dying throes, and it's taking out a lot of our sisters with it. While Roe v Wade is still technically the law of the land, there are now states with no or only one or two clinics where abortions can be performed. And now they're going after birth control.

There is a huge problem of violence against women both here in the USA and around the world. Women's work is devalued -- when they work "only" inside the home, their contributions get no formal recognition and they often have to deal with husbands who look at everything as "theirs" because they are the only one earning money; when they work outside the home, they have to deal with wage disparity, and are often saddled with less interesting jobs and worse career paths.

But yeah, sure, those other things you mentioned must be more important, because you said so. And "women's issues" are just, so, boring and woman-y.

[Soundman]

145. The op is right!

The outrage is brought by the same crowd that also refuses to see that a snake is a snake. They believe instinct can somehow be educated out of an animal.

And to the poster that thinks women are so overwhelmingly under represented in government. Why is that do you think? From where I sit woman seem to do very well in elections. As a matter of fact, I fully expect our next president to be a woman. Of course if women don't run they can't win. But wouldn't fit your paradigm now would it?

If you want more women in government maybe your time would be better spent getting out and finding candidates rather than berating your fellow democratic men.

Because in the end, if you can't look at your self as a person and find humor in just how pathetic you are, you are way too serious.

In parting, I am wondering if I should be offended by the commercial that just portrayed a fellow man as a total ignoramus? Or do I somehow deserve it because I was born with a penis?

[Jasana]

148. So sorry but sexism has been a part of my entire adult life and...

everything else is more important "than this shit." Who the hell are you to determine that?

Jokes heard at union meetings:

1) Daddy what's the difference between and vagina and a *unt? Son, vagina is a woman's sex organ. *unt just describes the rest of the bitch.

2) Free trade equals rape.

3) The guy who kept trying to run his hands through my hair probably thought he was funny too.

Years of catcalling: "Show me your boobs!" "Suck my dick!" "Hey babe!" "Work it!" "*uck me!" "Nice ass!" "Sit on my face!" "WOOOOOOO!" and more every. single. goddamn. day. Breathing while female. Walking while female. Existing while female. So what's another boob joke from a male boob.

I will decide what I find important. Chances are my opinions will be different from male boobs.

[countryjake]

150. I remember a time...

decades ago, now, when people were also deeply concerned about issues that mattered. We gathered, discussed, and planned mighty demos, organized ourselves to present effective protests on the inequalities, injustices, and outrages of that time. Afterward, at various steering committee meetings, during the sum-ups, sometimes a few would stand and simply ask, "Why must I be assigned to first-aid, child-care, food?" Leadership at those sorts of meet-ups generally did not have any good answers to such queries and normally ignored the questioners, moving on to more pressing agenda items. Over time, a certain pattern developed, and some people became rightfully pissed, but the main organizers didn't seem to care, instead choosing to ignore and eventually label those outspoken persons as side-trackers to the issues that really mattered. Oddly enough, other denigrating labels were also applied. Odd simply because these were all supposedly radical, conscientious people.

I am guessing that with this thread, by reading your statements on how to properly discuss "adult issues", that there are particular things that do not really matter a whit to you. However, others on this message board may and obviously, do, find certain principles, ideas, debates as necessary in the attempt to bring to bear an underlying crucial problem. You might not understand the roots of it, the way that seemingly minor inflections and attitudes, words and actions, could represent the basis of a perspective that effectively sustains oppression worldwide, but others do.