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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPatriotism is for fools!
Last edited Sun Dec 30, 2012, 06:53 PM - Edit history (1)
Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy. - Henry Kissinger
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children." - Dwight Eisenhower
You measure a democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.- Abbie Hoffman
Blind obedience to authority is the enemy of the truth. - Albert Einstein
Become an internationalist and learn to respect all life. Make war on machines. And in particular the sterile machines of corporate death and the robots that guard them. -Abbie Hoffman
That worst outcrop of herd life, the military system, which I abhor . . . This plague-spot of civilization ought to be abolished with all possible speed. Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism–how passionately I hate them! – Albert Einstein
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Patriotism is a menace to liberty. - Emma Goldman
Never was a patriot yet, but was a fool. – John Dryden
A patriot is a fool in ev’ry age. – Alexander Pope.
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. – Samuel Johnson
In Dr. Johnson’s famous dictionary, patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer, I beg to submit that it is the first. – Ambrose Bierce
Patriotism is as fierce as a fever, pitiless as the grave, blind as a stone, and irrational as a headless hen. – Ambrose Bierce
That pernicious sentiment, “Our country, right or wrong.” – James Russell Lowell
“My country right or wrong” is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, “My mother drunk or sober.” – G. K. Chesterton
Patriotism which has the quality of intoxication is a danger not only to its native land but to the world, and “My country never wrong” is an even more dangerous maxim than “My country, right or wrong.” – Bertrand Russell
Patrioism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. – George Bernard Shaw
Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious. – George Bernard Shaw
You’ll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race. – George Bernard Shaw
Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy. – George Bernard Shaw
Patriotism is an ephemeral motive that scarcely ever outlasts the particular threat to society that aroused it. – Denis Diderot
To me, it seems a dreadful indignity to have a soul controlled by geography. – George Santayana
The Athenian democracy suffered much from that narrowness of patriotism which is the ruin of all nations. – H.G. Wells
Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. “Patriotism” is its cult. . . . Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for one’s country which is not part of one’s love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship. – Erich Fromm
One of the great attractions of patriotism–it fulfills our worst wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully and cheat, Bully and cheat, what’s more, with a feeling that we are profoundly virtuous. – Aldous Huxley
Many studies have discovered a close link between prejudice and “patriotism” . . . Extreme bigots are almost always super-patriots – Gordon Allport
It seems like the less a statesman amounts to, the more he loves the flag. – Elbert Hubband
Patriotism varies, from a noble devotion to a moral lunacy. – William Inge
Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority. – Arthur Schopenhauer
Patriotism is the passion of fools and the most foolish of passions. – Arthur Schopenhauer
Patriotism corrupts history. – Goethe
Into the cultural and technological system of the modern world, the patriotic spirit fits like dust in the eyes and sand in the bearings. Its net contribution to the outcome is obscuration, distrust, and retardation at every point where it touches the fortunes of modern mankind. – Thorstein Veblen
The standardization of mass-production carries with it a tendency to standardize a mass-mind, producing a willing conformity, not merely to common ways of living, but to common ways of thinking and common valuations. The worst defect of patriotism is its tendency to foster and impose this common mind, and so to stifle the innumerable germs of liberty. – J.A. Hobson
2. Patriotism and War:
At the bottom of all patriotism is war: that is why I am no patriot. – Jules Renard
No other factor in history, not even religion, has produced so many wars as has the clash of national egotisms sanctified by the name of patriotism. – Preserved Smith
Naturally the common people don’t want war . . . Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders . . . All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism. – Hermann Goering.
3. Patriotism and Religion:
Patriotism is a kind of religion; it is the egg from which wars are hatched. – Guy de Maupassant
God and Country are an unbeatable team; they break all records for oppression and bloodshed. – Luis Buñuel
To be patriotic, hate all nations but your own; to be religious, all sects but your own; to be moral, all pretenses but your own. – Lionel Strachey
When a dog barks at the moon, then it is religion; but when he barks at strangers, it is patriotism! – David Starr Jordan
4. The American Syndrome:
If you have a weak candidate and a weak platform, wrap yourself up in the American flag and talk about the Constitution. – Matt Quay
How much longer are we going to think it necessary to be “American” before (or in contradistinction to) being cultivated, being enlightened, being humane, & having the same intellectual discipline as other civilized countries? It is really too easy a disguise for our shortcomings to dress them up as a form of patriotism. – Edith Wharton
The 100 percent American is 99 percent an idiot. – George Bernard Shaw
Treason is in the air around us everywhere. It goes by the name of patriotism. – Thomas Corwin
5. Three relatively positive assessments of patriotism:
A patriot is somebody who protects his country from his government. Or better yet: who has the guts to protect his country from its government. – Piotyr Dirk
Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism. – George Washington
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. – Thomas Jefferson
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BanTheGOP
(1,068 posts)The American flag, as a patriotic device, is about as divisive and reppressionist as any flag in history. In fact, in the hands of an average rethug, an American Flag is more divisive, more despicable, and frankly, more oppressive than any other similar blind obediance in the history of the planet. A rethug is more despicable than a German Nazi, a follower of Ghengis Khan, or an original plunderer in the "New World Discovery" era.
Bottom line: We MUST rid ourselves of the republican party and render America into a progressive, peaceful force for good in the world. That must first start with renunciation of the American flag as a patriotic device, and make it as shameful to proudly wave as the Confederate Stars and Bars, or the German / GW Bush Swastika.
PLEASE NOTE: I am NOT DISSING people who fly the flag in honor of family members or other people whom they share a familial bond with. I'm sure there are many of us here who are not fond of people telling us what we should and shouldn't patronize (which is verb form, after all, of patriot). But when I see it used by rethugs, the only comparison I see is that of Nazism, and to that extent, my enunciation holds forth and I won't back off from that aspect.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Sick of weapons, guns, tanks, borders, guards, surveillance, wiretapping all in the name of "DEMOCRACY"
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)n/t
Taverner
(55,476 posts)But someone pointing at a piece of cloth and saying "that's me! right there, that is what I am about!" scares me
Taverner
(55,476 posts)I am amazed at how many bull moose loony fools are here on DU
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Do you miss high school?
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Looked in a mirror lately?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)But you remind me of a Fleetwood Mac song.
RC
(25,592 posts)Do no evil.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)but I think like most "isms" it cuts both ways.
Puregonzo1188
(1,948 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)This
[IMG]
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fadedrose
(10,044 posts)I don't get it or the picture. Some of us patriots are kinda stupid.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)I realize that this might be too much reality for a lot of people. I find it so strange that religion bashing is acceptable in many liberal/left circles -but nationalism bashing is not - even though the grave evils of patriotism and nationalism obviously cause far more harm to the world of the 20th and 21st century than religion. In fact when religion is cheering on atrocities - it is usually doing it as the legitimizer of nationalism or ethno-tribalism. So, I being the sort that would prefer not to offend - I would not make it a habit to bash patriotism - But I can not censor something simply because it is true.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Thuggish military worshippers get in your face.
America is a nation brainwashed into nationalism.
Knowing history, that never turns out well.
And the perfectly normal person four years later wonders why he is now gunning down his neighbors and friends.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)One of my closer friends was an army drill sarge. We used to laugh about the psych used on newbs. In reality it is pretty sad.
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)I came from a very white background where the n-word was routine and all the stereotypes were the perceived reality.
10 weeks of Navy bootcamp totally cleansed me of racism and I accepted my Black shipmates as brothers in arms. But man we hated them motherfuckin' gooks!
To all who leave patriotism and tribalism etc. divisions behind: welcome to humanity, welcome to the world of life. 
By "abandoning" your earlier community that you were born and raised into, you are not abandoning anything, but joining a much larger community.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)
ileus
(15,396 posts)100% proud American here...
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Bay of Pigs Invasion
Dominican Intervention
Vietnam War
Grenada
Beirut
Panama
Gulf War
Somalia
Yugoslavia
War on Terrorism (2001–present)
Afghanistan
Philippines
Liberia
Iraq
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)
gasser85
(40 posts)Taverner
(55,476 posts)Very true
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)What are you, a goddamned commie pinko bastard?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Taking out democratically elected Arbenz GAVE US FREDUMB!
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)
Squinch
(51,055 posts)wrong." I consider myself patriotic in that I love my country, my home, and will work as hard as I can to make it better, however I can, all my life.
forestpath
(3,102 posts)
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)They don't see themselves as Americans anymore, in fact the movie "Network" from 1976 spells it out plainly:
The Corporate Establishment abandoned patriotism a long time ago. Not that that is any good, but we are seeing the consequences of it nowadays as they are destroying America and selling it off piece by piece.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)No one has been able to give me one positive reason we are #1
So far, the only thing we are #1 at is locking up people, and killing people
I am not proud of that
Are you?
LarryNM
(493 posts)Can think of no other that better stated the reality of the world.
Crabby Appleton
(5,231 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)
billh58
(6,635 posts)Last edited Mon Dec 31, 2012, 12:46 PM - Edit history (1)
The anti-American garbage is thick on DU these days.
great white snark
(2,646 posts)
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Nationalism is rooted in arrogance. Patriotism is rooted in pride. HUGE difference.
I am patriotic, not nationalistic.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)I'm not trying to be snarky, insulting or cruel but they are the same thing, we just call it Patriotism when we do it, and Nationalism when they do it.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)I am patriotic, but not nationalistic.
Nationalism is unity based upon culture, including language and heritage. Patriotism pertains to the love for a nation, with more emphasis on values and beliefs.
Patriotism is rooted in affection for country and nationalism is based on arrogance fueled rivalry and resentment.
Nationalism is militant and patriotism is peaceful.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)And patriotism (if you are to believe our founding fathers) is not always peaceful
Nationalism and Patriotism are interchangeable in America. That's where that whole "Barack Obama is not an American" BS came from.
I am neither - I love my species first, not my nation
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)My patriotism is cultural, not geographical. Does this mean I have sold my soul?
Cultural values:
The constitution, the right to privacy, multiculturalism, Football, baseball, diversity, acceptance of cultures outside the mainstream, work ethic, American informality and optimism, a former slavery country that votes in an African American president ...etc. etc.
These things make up my patriotism, not war or "my country right or wrong".
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Multiculturalism is alive and well elsewhere, lately we have kind of LOST our right to privacy, etc....
This is why never bought the "American Exceptionalism" argument
Of course, you will lose it to if you live overseas for some time
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)We have been losing our right to privacy because RW nationalism has been creeping into our culture for the past 30 years, especially since 911.
American exceptionalism is a nationalistic, ideological concept. Ideologies suck, generally.
I have been all over the world. We travel constantly. You are right there. The US government is reviled overseas, especially when Republicans are in office. If you have traveled a lot you know this line, "I love Americans, but can't stand your government".
Taverner
(55,476 posts)And more than not, I am outright ASHAMED at my government
Even under Clinton, I remember apologizing for Clinton's strikes on Iraq during the Lewinsky hearings
Taverner
(55,476 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Nationalism vs Patriotism
Nationalism is conservative and patriotism is liberal
Most nationalists assume that their country is better than any other, whereas patriots believe that their country is one of the best and can be improved in many ways. Patriots tend to believe in friendly relations with other countries while some nationalists don’t.
In patriotism, people all over the world are considered equal but nationalism implies that only the people belonging to one’s own country should be considered one’s equal.
A patriotic person tends to tolerate criticism and tries to learn something new from it, but a nationalist cannot tolerate any criticism and considers it an insult.
Nationalism makes one to think only of one’s country’s virtues and not its deficiencies. Nationalism can also make one contemptuous of the virtues of other nations. Patriotism, on the other hand, pertains to value responsibilities rather than just valuing loyalty towards one’s own country.
http://www.differencebetween.net/language/difference-between-nationalism-and-patriotism
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)in this thread.
BanTheGOP
(1,068 posts)...and therefore, that they would actually agree with your sentiment. That is why one cannot be patriotic WITHOUT being nationalistic, and both, by definition, exclude other people, which is the complete repudiation of progressive values.
Bottom line: Nationalists AND patriots can NOT be progressives. And the Democratic Party is the home of the American progressive party; therefore, we should start migrating away from the US flag to that of a more inclusive beacon. While the UN flag itself is not necessarily the ultimate beason, it is as representative of our progressive movement as we have, and I'll gladly honor that flag far sooner than the US flag.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)I am patriotic, but not nationalistic. I am also highly progressive. Please explain me.
BanTheGOP
(1,068 posts)While everyone may have a different sense of patriotism in how it should be "defined," I think the most important aspect is this: What would a TRUE progressive want? In my case, to be one who sticks to my values means I value life and individual security more than I do national identity. The conventional definition of patriotism is, in fact, an adherence to national identity. Now, one may fudge the lines a bit and say, well I'm patriotic to my PROGRESSIVE values, but that's not entirely fair. When most people are asked about how they define patriotism, most think it in the context of "my country is #1! USA! USA! USA!" which, of course, infers that "EVERYONE ELSE SUCKS!! USA! USA! USA!" When that occurs, patriotism is shown its true basis in exclusionary tactics, the same exclusion that festers the reasons for racism, sexism, classism, anti-environmentalism, and other GOP-based tenets.
I, for one, cannot be proud of my country for all the damage it has inflicted on the vast majority of humanity around the world. So how can I be "patriotic?" I literally do not know how to put patriotism and humanity in the same circle, so that's where I come from.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)+10000
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Thank you for some meaningful input.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)....the Third Reich were Patriots.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Naturally the common people don’t want war . . . Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders . . . All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism. – Hermann Goering.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)That treaty all but insured another European war within a generation.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...How far back do you want to go? How about the Franco-Prussian War of 1870? Or the British-French wars of the 1700s-1800s?
How about we call it like it really was and just admit that Hitler and the Nazis started WWII?
[center]
''....and they shall beat their swords into
plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks:
nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
neither shall they learn war any more.''
[/center]
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)Back to back World War champs and bestest country God ever created.
pasto76
(1,589 posts)I wish I could find refreshment in honesty, but this smacks of the same old 'never been there but know more than anyone' bullshit.
OP has taken some good comments about the American person, and is trying to use it to justify trashing everything about anyone.
but someday he'll realize that the comfort and safety of his living room from which he collects these sayings, has been made safe over the decades and centuries by people actually wearing the uniform. Currently .02% of the population.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)I used an M-16 to protect my life and the lives of others...
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)I always loved the Vietnamese people. Out in the jungle, when I ran into woodcutters who weren't supposed to be there in the free fire zone, I'd stop and talk to them and sing them a popular Vietnamese song. They'd roll on the ground laughing, and then we'd be off on our separate ways.
I've returned to Vietnam on several month-long trips, living with the people even in a 10' x 10' hovel in Cholon. I've sat at dinner and laughed--and cried--together with other former combatants from the ARVN, the NVA, and the Viet Cong. We have more in common than our respective countrymen, who often don't seem to get it...
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)Strangely it only applies to the military, not to say the guy that created the polio vaccine or the guy that discovered penicillin or the man or woman that wired up your house. Only the military are special.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)If it weren't for the marines? Please tell me who, precisely, the military has protected my freedoms from in the last century or so.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Extremism is just that.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)maybe not you, you wish we were all still British?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)to attach my entire being to. Your extremism is your own doing. Enjoy it.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Don't see any but blurbs that you didn't think up just C&P into a post. Maybe next time though huh?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)I form some of my reasons from considering what others have said who may be wiser than I. History and the wisdom and the lessons learned are of great value to some and worthless to others. Obviously these quotes are of no value to you but then maybe you are offended by them ...so you attack me. Maybe these quotes put what you think or believe to shame ...and so you strike back at me for them. You are free to quote what you use to form your opinions too but you choose not to ...and that pretty much says to me that you have no real basis for your belief concerning this subject.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Took you long enough and is rather disappointing with the old canards thrown in there.
Your thread title makes you look foolish or naive, sorry if that hurt your feelings.
You obviously have no clue what the difference is between patriotism and nationalism.
How sad.
Maybe you should read some of those quotes you just googled real fast to stir up shit?
Nah you probably won't even do that.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)You obviously have no desire to have an honest discussion about patriotism so why bother responding?
Rex
(65,616 posts)You have NOT once tried to have any kind of conversation and I believe your post is just more of the same old flamebait. Why do you keep replying? Because you know I am right and cannot stand it.
WHEN CRABS ROAR
(3,813 posts)davidn3600
(6,342 posts)
Brigid
(17,621 posts)[link:http://www.warpoetry.co.uk/owen1.html| Or check out "The Third Reich" on H2 right now.
patrice
(47,992 posts)family dinner table.
He came out of a poor family from Arkansas by way of Oklahoma & was highly influenced by a populist social-justice preaching Catholic priest during his young married years while he worked in the oil-refineries in SE Kansas.
cbrer
(1,831 posts)By our masters to control the weak minded.
patrice
(47,992 posts)Brigid
(17,621 posts)That's nationalism, and it's a crock.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)patrice
(47,992 posts)Not so the religion known as American Exceptionalism, especially for how it bastardizes authentic (flexible) strength in the name of pseudo-patriotism that is really much more like fascism than anything else.
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)The taxes you pay support the most powerful and far reaching empire the world has ever known. Might as well just leave and put your convictions into action.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Brigid
(17,621 posts)A powerful empire doesn't make a country great. If you want to measure the "greatness" of any country, ask yourself this: How are its people doing? How do they treat one another, especially the least among them? In short, what kind of people are they? We do not do well when measured by these questions these days. We can't even deal with a Black Friday sale without losing our minds.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)....and take a look at how they treated their own people as well as how they treated the people they subjugated.
Once you're done, let me know how we compare.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)The Patriot Act, increasing child poverty, guns everywhere, Citizens United, foreclosures,.falling wages, lousy schools, college kids graduating with piles of debt . . . I could go on, but I think you get the idea.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...the Byzantines, the British, the Russians....how did these empires treat their citizens and the people they enslaved?
I could go on, but I think you get the idea.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)Some just refuse to see it. I have no faith in a people who can't even deal with a Black Friday sale anymore. When we start dealing with problems like poverty, health care, environmental degradation, gun control, and education in realistic ways, maybe then I'll change my mind. But not until.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)....those of us who have served in the military at one time or another and consider ourselves to be Progressives/Liberals/Democrats?
Rex
(65,616 posts)Gets mad that he doesn't know the difference between nationalism and patriotism. Has no clue.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Yea ...and all those quotes are from people who have or had "no clue" too. Seems that you are one getting angry bud ...and now your crawling the thread with IMO your lame immature insults?
Rex
(65,616 posts)Keep trying to pretend this is about 'those people and their quotes'. You didn't even read them! 
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)thanks for pointing out your objective!
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)It is simply amazing that you cannot accept that you've been caught making DU suck!
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)...must be someone else making DU suck.
Rex
(65,616 posts)
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)We all have our sources and wisdom that we learn from.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)Nationalism:
Loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups.
Patriotism:
Love for or devotion to one's country.
Do you see the difference or does that put a damper on your little rant?
Yes, we all have our sources of and wisdom from which we learn, but critical thinking and balance needs to be applied to all that we learn.
Arctic Dave
(13,812 posts)"devotion to (a)one's nation"?
It would seem everything else is splitting frog hair.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)
atreides1
(16,094 posts)Perhaps the ultra-liberal progressives want a purer DU...one without members who are gun owners or have served in the military!
And seeing how much the "adminstrators" have done, perhaps they agree with the premise!
Rex
(65,616 posts) This thread is GOLD!Hekate
(90,867 posts)Dissent is the HIGHEST FORM OF patriotism. – Thomas Jefferson
Your two final quotations do not say that patriotism does not exist nor that patriotism is for fools.
My love of country was tattered by 8 years of George W. Bush-Cheney-Rove. But it is still my country, and does not belong to them and their ilk.
My earliest ancestor landed here about 1620; my husband was born in Europe and immigrated as a child. This is OUR land and YOURS, but I take it ill to be called a fool by those who have given up.
Hekate
Rex
(65,616 posts)to actually have READ some of those quotes!
Thanks for getting it 
Rex
(65,616 posts)those darn patriots!
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Hekate
(90,867 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)er um sputter...from all the rest! GOLD!
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)about the source authors? What's the point of trying to make those quotes out to be mine? Clearly they are from others who are IMO much wiser than some of the posters who have responded with insults. IMO if anyone has to insult others when they disagree it only shows that they lack the intelligence to debate the subject. I welcome a discussion on the pros or cons of patriotism.
Rex
(65,616 posts)GREAT way to start off a fair exchange of ideas! NOT. I mean, you make this too easy...I think all you wanted to do is stir the shit a little.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)patriotism is for fools ...mentioned ...along with many other quotes not referring to fools. As I have said before ...you are not here to discuss anything ...IMO you are only responding to insult. Would you be happy to have DU be nothing but a group of people insulting those they disagree with? Thanks for helping to make it be that way.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Again you have nothing but empty air...
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)tama
(9,137 posts)Shouldn't we expect and demand that our communities, nation states etc., behave according to the same ethical standards we try to teach our children?
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)I have a problem with the idea of teaching children that it is wrong to kill but them find justification to go to war and kill. The problem doesn't seem resolvable.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts) whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)that governments use first to shrink-wrap people's brains and then as ceremonial shrouds to bury the dead. - Arundhati Roy
Lots of shrink wrapped brains on DU. :/
burrowowl
(17,653 posts)However the rest of the statement is "when wrong to be made right".
Which of course is never cited.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)“My country right or wrong” is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, “My mother drunk or sober.” – G. K. Chesterton
This brings in a more proper definition of the use of the word patriot where a patriot would be willing to use some introspect and examine the truth of the matter rather than maybe go with the flow.
