Ron Paul Joins Dennis Kucinich to Demand Obama Drone Documents

[Douglas Carpenter]

Libertarian minded Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, and liberal Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, would seem like an odd pair on any issue. However, as the Houston Chronicle reports, both oppose the use of drone strikes in the War on Terror.

Paul and Kucinich attempt to force release of drone documents

Paul and Kucinich, both of whom will be leaving Congress within weeks, have introduced a resolution designed to force the Obama administration to release legal documents that are being used to justify the use of drones to undertake targeted killings of Al Qaeda terrorist leaders, according to the Houston Chronicle. Thus far the Obama administration has resisted attempts to have these documents released. Paul and Kucinich hope to force the White House to turn over the documents to a House committee for examination.

Paul a longtime opponent of drone strikes

Paul, who has advocated an isolationist foreign policy, has been also an opponent of the use of missile-armed drones used to kill Al Qaeda leaders. In a speech published on the website AntiWar.com Paul suggested that drone strikes kill too many innocent civilians while attempting to take out terrorist leaders, thus inciting hatred of the United States in the Middle East and around the world. Paul also expressed concern about the use of drone for domestic surveillance on civil liberties grounds.

The drone war

The use of drones as a weapon for targeted killing was started under the Bush administration, but was greatly expanded under the Obama administration, according to the New Yorker. There are actually two drone campaigns, one conducted by the military in war zones against terrorist targets, and the other, more controversial, conducted by the CIA in a variety of countries, some, Yemen and Pakistan, not technically war zones.

http://news.yahoo.com/ron-paul-joins-dennis-kucinich-demand-obama-drone-192800504.html

[white_wolf]

1. Hmm how long before Kucinch gets thrown under the bus? n/t

[LeftyMom]

8. Again?

[Egalitarian Thug]

23. That bus ran over him and backed up to do it again years ago. The party has hated him since he was

first elected. He has an annoying habit of standing on principle and telling the truth.

[99Forever]

2. Arrrrrrrrrgggg.

Dennis K is awesome. Drones attacks are inhuman and should be stopped. But Ron Paul is an asshole, beneath contempt. Please don't be associated with that jerk, Dennis. PLEASE!

[pipoman]

3. This may be brilliant

There is a movement in this country which is bigger than Occupy and the Teabaggers..it is a yet unnamed movement which are the grievances that both Occupy and the Teabaggers share. Exportation of jobs/trade agreements, drug reform, and war spending. I believe these groups are destined to join in some way and bring a bunch of the vast middle with them. We really need actual change in '16.

[woo me with science]

5. We are the 99 percent.

Yes...They retain their power in large part because they keep us focused on, hating, and attacking each other, many times even blindly, instead of joining together against what they are doing to ALL of us.

I think you are exactly right.

[Lasher]

4. Both are lame ducks.

On the way out.

[BlueCaliDem]

26. And good riddens

to the both of them.

[patrice]

6. Like Ron Paul gives a rat's ass about peace. So, when will Kucinich ask him about Rand's

pledge of allegiance to the NRA for senators to interfere with UN treaties seeking to control the flow of small arms and other weapons into 3rd-world countries, thus contributing to situations that will kill children and could result in situations in which American troops will die.

The Pauls' interests in any of this only have to do with economics and trade, not humanity, do you honestly see either one of them interfering with PRIVATE gun trade?

Disgusting.

[patrice]

7. PERFECT example of BULLSHIT political base-building AT ALL COSTS. An example of COMPROMISE

that some of you all on what calls itself "the Left" will be just fine about making.

I've always had my doubts about what an ineffectual opportunist Kucinich is; this proves it beyond all doubt.

This makes me barf.

SHAME on Dennis Kucinich.

[LeftyMom]

10. God forbid people unite in opposition to flying murder robots sometimes used on American citizens,

or ask what exactly the flying murder robot death list criteria are.

If you can't tell principle from opportunism, or understand why congress might want to know what the current policy is on authorizing targeted assassinations, I don't know what to tell you. It's unfortunate that your loyalty has so blinded you to decency.

[patrice]

11. And it's unfortunate that you can't respect a difference in opinion enough to not make assumptions

about other people's loyalty. I'll try not to imitate you.

I don't know the disgusting deadly math on this and I reject the concept that that's the way we should think about it, but I can at least recognize that the death-toll from either scenario, drones vs. private arms trade could be nearly equal, so which of those lives do you count as more valuable than the others?

At least with drones, there's less chaos than there is from the Paul family's gun merchants in there selling murder to whoever buys it.

Perhaps you can appreciate how the motives of anyone who approves of that kind of weapons trade, AND tries to extract a possibly seditious pledge of allegiance to the NRA from the Senate, look just slightly questionable, not to even mention the way that such things contribute to the factors that cause MIC to spread un-ending war and DRONES in the first place.

[LeftyMom]

14. Wait a minute, you're throwing in a third person and an entirely different issue to muddy the waters

Stick to the drone policy concern and stop threadjacking please.

[patrice]

16. So, innocent powerless people being killed doesn't matter unless it's done by drones &

it doesn't matter that the same people opposing drone use SUPPORT the completely unlimited spread of other arms because those arms are sold for PROFIT by PRIVATE arms dealers, most of whom have relations to PRIVATE ARMIES that are not even under the theoretical influence of the people of any nation through an elected official such as a president.

k.

[LeftyMom]

22. Of course it matters. Go start a thread about that instead of threadjacking this one.

Because right now you're complaining about two members of the House asking about drone policy because a Senator is irrationally opposed to the UN. Which is so nonsensical that one has to conclude that either you're threadjacking or you're not clear on fifth grade civics.

[Egalitarian Thug]

24. That's pretty ironic considering your previous reply.

[Fumesucker]

34. Yeah, I noticed that too

The lack of self awareness was striking.

[frylock]

43. I've always had my doubts about what an ineffectual opportunist Kucinich

And it's unfortunate that you can't respect a difference in opinion enough to not make assumptions about other people's loyalty.

[woo me with science]

15. "God forbid people unite in opposition to flying murder robots."

No shit. Thank you.

I really wonder how some people intend to get the power and numbers necessary to stop some of the garbage that is being perpetrated on us and in our name, if they continue to reflexively reject any corrective action that is even remotely supported by someone they once loathed for some reason or other.

This is the power of blind hatred, and the one percent foments it and controls it expertly in order to keep us fragmented and powerless.

[patrice]

17. So, you support UNLIMITED PRIVATE FREE ARMS TRADE. I'm not surprised. nt

[woo me with science]

18. Patrice, calm down,

and stop mixing up issues.

[patrice]

20. It IS the same issue. Why don't you stop with the false dichotomy? ADMIT IT dead poor people ONLY

matter when Obama's drone policy does it.

[woo me with science]

21. *Sigh.* nt

[BlueCaliDem]

28. Yep. The Libertarians disguised as Liberals a la Glenn Greenwald

around here are quick to criticize and demonize President Obama, and would even side with a faux Liberatarian like Ron Paul against a sitting Democratic president on a Democratic MB.

[woo me with science]

29. Unfailingly, it becomes about defending Obama.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1944015

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1489598

[BlueCaliDem]

35. Spare me your "third way" accusation. If any group is "third way", it would be

those who follow FireDogLake, post religiously on DKos, cheer-lead for Ron Paul, and swoon for Glenn Greenwald - the last two being proven racists to boot. Kind of makes one think about these people's true reasoning for disliking President Obama, doesn't it?

And just so you know, no one is "defending Obama". I'm pointing out a disturbing trend on this supposedly Democratic Party message board by a small but insistent group of anti-Obamanites and how there's outright lying about his motives (as if they're clairvoyants and suddenly know what he's thinking) and his policies.

And when the sky hasn't fallen - unlike their wrongheaded predictions - there is NO apology. No remorse. They just go on to the next rumor and half-truth, skewed to fit their anti-Obama narrative, and exploit that new toy until it too is proven wrong while calling pragmatic progressives (who live in the real world) "third wayers". Typical.

[woo me with science]

39. Wow!

Firedoglake, Ron Paul, religion, RACISM, swooning, disliking Obama (of course), DKos AND Glenn Greenwald! Clairvoyance, falling skies, and lots of toys! But, notably, no ponies.

Were the "anti-Obamanites" in the Bible? I think I remember something about them. I hope they rode dinosaurs, because I have always wanted to ride a dinosaur.

[patrice]

36. No fucking joke, that! And there's nothing you can do about a bunch of fascists who think

they're always absolutely right and the reason you can't do anything about fascism is because, if you're like me, no matter how much you know, no matter how much you investigate, no matter how much you think and look at things from a variety of perspectives and test and finally come up with a position on something that you're relatively confident of and CAN and are motivated to represent, both offensively and defensively, no matter how strong one feels about the reality in all of that, persons of reason ALWAYS retains, maintain, and respect a possibility that s/he is wrong relative to however much one thinks one is right. That's what people who aren't fascists do.

Not so those who call themselves "the Left". To themselves, they are absolutely right and everyone else is always absolutely wrong and they never entertain the notion that any of the nearly infinite number of complex factors that ALL OF US are more or less ignorant of COULD result in the tragic OPPOSITE of what they claim their trajectory is.

That's. dangerous . . .

and they don't give a fuck, because power, political power matters more to some people than the truth does, so such fascists on the "Left" and the Right NEVER admit the very very very real fact that some people, like PO, do, in fact know more about the issues, and might, just might be more deserving of our trust, because t/he/y KNOWS (and because unlike these so-called Leftie fascist and their blood bretheren on the Right) is capable of admitting the possibility of his own errors and, THEREFORE, has a higher probability chance of IN FACT being MORE correct/valid on whatever the issue is than any variety of political fascists are.

And the reason for that is because power is the motive of all fascists. It's what makes them fascists, no matter what label they wear, and it's what blinds them to reality and leads them and theirs inevitably to VIOLENCE.

[BlueCaliDem]

41. Frustrating, isn't it? Believe me, I feel the same way.

You put into words exactly how I've been feeling and what's been frustrating me like you wouldn't believe.



You ROCK, patrice!

[patrice]

42. They pretend that everyone who disagrees with them is just going to go away, or disappear or

change into agreeing with them, or submit to them and the unlikelihood of all of that DOES NOT MATTER.

No one has any rights, but them and it's a prescription for violence.

[ZombieHorde]

31. UNLIMITED PRIVATE FREE ARMS TRADE doesn't exist in the US, but the drones do.

Private arms trading in the US is limited. There are limitations on who, what, and when.

Also, this is a very different issue. There are many things that cause human death, but grouping them all together is not politically sound. For example, both handguns and pollution cause human death, but they have to be addressed separately. Politically speaking, private arms trading and government use of drones also have to be addressed separately.

[Comrade Grumpy]

45. Are you insane? That's a huge non sequitur.

[Fire Walk With Me]

9. "One of these things, is not like the other...REALLY not like the other..."

[LeftInTX]

13. I know

[patrice]

12. Disgusting political opportunism. SHAME on Dennis Kucinich. nt

[msongs]

25. how many women and kids has kucinich ordered murdered by drone strikes? nt

[Vinnie From Indy]

32. LOL!

"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

Your mind numbingly lack of polite debate is only eclipsed by your sublime idiocy!

Cheers!

[frylock]

44. will you love drone strikes as much when it's president jeb bush pulling the trigger?

or can we expect an about face?

[janx]

19. This is not a surprise. n/t

[Prometheus Bound]

27. Good for Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul.

The right and the left can find common ground. The drone war is despicable.

[woo me with science]

30. Opposing drones means attacking Obama,

and since Ron Paul opposes the drone strikes, we should be for them.

[Vinnie From Indy]

33. +1

Cheers!

[Prometheus Bound]

46. Stop it. You're making me dizzy.

I heard that Dennis Kucinich's second cousin supports the drone war, and that makes Dennis a hypocrite.

[Douglas Carpenter]

47. as long as they are progressive - center/left drones, what's the problem?

[Arkana]

37. Ron Paul doesn't give a damn. Dennis would do well to find better allies.

[RomneyLies]

38. With those two demanding the documents, I oppose them being released

I despise them both.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. Good for them. War crimes need to be exposed.