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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsUS offering Israel intel on Hamas leaders whereabouts if Israel makes no major operation in Rafah.
According to the Times of Israel, referencing the Washinton Post, the US is offering sensitive Intel on locations of Hamas leaders and their tunnel hideouts IF Israel does not launch a major operation against Rafah.
The US is also offering tent encampments for Palestinians displaced from Rafah and a humanitarian aid infrastructure for them.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/us-said-offering-israel-sensitive-intel-on-hamas-leaders-whereabouts-if-no-major-rafah-op/
Looks to me like the offer would make targeting Hamas leaders more precise than a major operation in Rafah would. It also would address humanitarian concerns and aid that Biden has said are necessary during this war.
Tickle
(2,652 posts)leaders are we should have already told Israel.
wnylib
(22,103 posts)it might be the case that some of the Intel on Hamas leaders' locations at Rafah is very recent. Or, the US could be sitting on the Intel of Hamas locations at Rafah as a negotiating tool to get Israel's agreement to limited, more precise attacks at Rafah AND humanitarian aid for displaced civilians from Rafah.
jimfields33
(16,500 posts)You get it, if you dont do this. No way. The United States doesnt operate like that.
wnylib
(22,103 posts)come to agreements and define points of disagreement?
JohnSJ
(92,680 posts)RandySF
(60,895 posts)Buns_of_Fire
(17,263 posts)in mansions, it might be time to start decapitating the snake from the head down. If Israel could spirit Eichmann out of Argentina, surely it could spare a bullet or two for Sinwar in Qatar.
Think. Again.
(9,694 posts)...netanyahu's claims of only trying to end hamas don't match what is actually happening.
wnylib
(22,103 posts)a great deal of infrastructure damage has occurred, along with civilian deaths. Israel has given advance warning to civilians before its attacks.
Rafah is a larger site than some others, so attacks there endanger even more civilians. It is near the Egyptian border and the Hamas complex there is HUGE, with underground networks extending into Egypt for smuggling (without Egyptian government approval or aid, AFAIK). Hamas commanders and fighters have retreated there after their other underground sites were destroyed by Israel. So an attack on that network would also be huge, in order destroy the entire network and assure that the remaining commanders and fighters there are eliminated.
But, if the US can provide Intel that would make targeting the locations more precise, it would save civilian lives and infrastructure.
The Israeli goal in this war has always been to destroy Hamas and its capability of future attacks. The Hamas goal in this war has always been self-preservation to the extent of using civilians to protect themselves and gain world support for civilian victims. Hamas uses 16 year olds as fighters and younger children as couriers.
.
wnylib
(22,103 posts)Last edited Sat May 11, 2024, 11:58 PM - Edit history (1)
Eichmann was captured after Nazi Germany was defeated, along with its allies. So, no risk of widespread repercussions by taking him into custody for a trial.
But Middle East terrorist groups, besides Hamas, are still active and strong, with sympathizers in many countries who are prepared to retaliate with attacks on defenseless civilians. Or with assassinations and attacks on embassies and various government officials.
LeftInTX
(26,148 posts)Sinwar never left Gaza.
There are other leaders in Qatar, but Sinwar is not one of them.
wnylib
(22,103 posts)rescued in the process.
Think. Again.
(9,694 posts)...suggest to me that we really don't believe netanyahu's claims of "self-defense" as much as we let him think we do.
wnylib
(22,103 posts)Freethinker65
(10,173 posts)LeftInTX
(26,148 posts)Freethinker65
(10,173 posts)Had read they might have left, or will be asked to leave, Qatar. Thought perhaps that was part of the intelligence exchange being discussed.
LeftInTX
(26,148 posts)A third official an Israeli one asserted that Sinwar is still in Gaza.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/sinwar-not-hiding-in-rafah-officials-tell-toi-as-pm-publicly-prioritizes-idf-op-there/
From April 2024
Hamas terror group leader Yahya Sinwar briefly surfaced from his underground hiding place and walked the streets of the Gaza Strip, an official in the group claimed.
The official, who spoke anonymously to the London-based Al-Araby Al-Jadeed newspaper in an interview published Wednesday, refuted Israeli claims that Sinwar is cut off from his forces on the ground, saying the terror chief met with fighters and reviewed sites where there were clashes with the Israel Defense Forces.
Israel has made eliminating Sinwar a key element of its goal to destroy Hamas after the terror groups devastating October 7 attack on the country that opened the still ongoing war in the Gaza Strip. Israeli officials have claimed that Sinwar is forced to hunker down in Hamass vast network of tunnels beneath Gaza, leaving him isolated from the groups gunmen.
They have indicated he was likely in tunnels under Khan Younis or Rafah, surrounded by hostages.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/sinwar-briefly-emerged-from-hiding-in-gaza-met-with-fighters-hamas-source-claims/
From Feb 2024
&ab_channel=NBCNews
Image from Apr 2023 in Gaza
File: Yahia al-Sinwar, the Gaza Strip chief of the Palestinian Islamist Hamas movement, greets supporters as he arrives to attend a rally marking Al-Quds (Jerusalem) Day, April 14, 2023. (Mohammed Abed/AFP)
Very long article about his prison sentence.
The teeth of Fatah inmates are in poor condition, whereas Hamas prisoners maintain hygiene and purity. Theirs is a religious way of life. Ascetic. With rigid discipline. They pray five times a day, don't touch sweets, don't smoke. There's no such thing as smoking in Hamas. You see a 50-year-old prisoner who is entirely free of any signs of illness. No tooth decay. I'd say, "You're Hamas?" They would say, "Yes, how did you know?" "By the teeth," I replied. A very basic insight. Everything has meaning it's the same with regard to their way of life, for example. At 9 P.M., there is a total lights-out in the prison's Hamas wings; in the Fatah wings they watch television all night.
You know, when I first started out at the service, thousands of prisoners had already been released as part of the Oslo Accords framework. Who was still incarcerated? Around 800 inmates. There was the really hard-core element of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and another 200 Fatah prisoners with "blood on their hands." When I came to Nafha Prison [in the Negev], as a dentist, the whole Hamas leadership was imprisoned there: [Yahya] Sinwar; his right-hand man Rawhi Mushtaha; Tawfiq Abu Naim, the head of the security branches; Ali al-Amoudi, Hamas' communications director and manager of Sinwar's office. And because I'd worked twice a week at a prison for criminals too, I understood that the behavior I saw at Nafha [among security prisoners] was very unusual.
It wasn't the socially oriented organization, as it were, that Israel aspired to cultivate in the 1980s as the entity that would pose a threat to Fatah. It was already a military organization then. The thing with Hamas is that they have always been a faction of the Muslim Brotherhood. They set themselves Islamist goals: to annihilate the State of Israel, to liberate sacred Muslim lands. The Israelis just didn't get it: For them, Hamas and Fatah were the same thing.
I said to Sinwar, "Tell me, is it worth it for 10,000 innocent people to die, in order to free 100 prisoners?" The reply was, "Even 100,000 is worth it." Their notion of time is different, and the price in blood they are ready to pay in order to achieve their goal is different. Because each person who dies is a shahid [martyr]. It's warfare in the name of God.
https://archive.ph/8gEzD
PufPuf23
(8,930 posts)IDF and Israeli intelligence agencies?
Can see how USA has better intel outside of Israel, specifically Qatar.
wnylib
(22,103 posts)us no public answer to that question.
But keep in mind that we have agents and informants in many places.
PufPuf23
(8,930 posts)Seems logical that USA intelligence has foot on ground sources. Also working face to face at some level with IDF. Problem is foot on ground intelligence imbedded where? NGOs are questionable and viewed by some as complicit; there are certainly instances of complicity. Gaza not an easy place to be for adult male not attached to IDF.
Look at this posted October 15, 2023 ( https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218367008 )
About the tunnels used by Hamas in Gaza
Caveat: Not a military expert and probably something like this is happening just not talked about for secrecy.
But practical.
Search for and find tunnels egresses in Gaza and outside Gaza.
Start from outside Gaza and systematically search using remote sensing and whatever intelligence method works.
One could be very certain that people at the egresses and within the tunnels are Hamas terrorist.
Also stores of munitions and other items of the terrorist trade are likely in or near the egresses to the tunnels.
The tunnels may also be a means to sneak undercover IDF forces behind enemy lines, particularly tunnels that are not in current use.
The Gaza cleanup operation should destroy the system of tunnels so not available for future terrorism.
LeftInTX
(26,148 posts)And Egypt does not want to get involved. They have enough problems of their own and they've been doing the aid thing.
Egypt knows if they start looking for tunnels, it's gonna p___ a bunch of people off and the government doesn't want to be seen as "helping Israel".
Egypt has closed off tunnels in the past, but now is not a good time for them.
There were a few tunnels going into Israel and they have closed those off.
PufPuf23
(8,930 posts)at the border and work into Gaza.
Surprised that the border was not sealed as a military move early on.
LeftInTX
(26,148 posts)wnylib
(22,103 posts)The tunnels have to be destroyed beyond repair, beyond being rebuilt.
And then surveillance is necessary to prevent terrorists from ever getting such a stronghold again. Don't know who would do the surveillance.
LeftInTX
(26,148 posts)A girl can dream...
wnylib
(22,103 posts)revmclaren
(2,596 posts)satellites used for Intel, geology, etc.
Maybe they want to keep its full capabilities secret.
PufPuf23
(8,930 posts)times over by now.
wnylib
(22,103 posts)can also reveal info on how it is known, which needs to remain secret. So, disclosing what we know is a huge security step taken very cautiously and rarely.
The fact that the US has stood with Israel's self defense actions indicates that the US knows that Israel's own Intel on where to strike and when is good and needed no intervention or additional Intel from us.
But the situation in Rafah is so serious in terms of the potential size of the operation and destruction of life and infrastructure, and the operation so important to destroying Hamas's last stronghold, that the US is apparently willing to take the rare step of sharing sensitive information.
Joinfortmill
(14,706 posts)Let's hope he does the right thing