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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCop Slammed Emory Professor's Head Into Concrete, Then Charged Her With Battery
An economics professor at Emory University whose needlessly violent arrest was captured by a news crew on Thursday at the schools pro-Palestine protest, is now facing charges for battery against a police officer.
In a disturbing video captured by CNN, Professor Caroline Fohlin approached several police officers as they wrestled one protester to the ground, forcefully shoving their head into the concrete sidewalk. Oh my God, what are you doing? Fohlin asked, horrified.
Fohlin yelled at the officers to get away from the student. She leaned down closer to the student, but did not touch them, or any of the officers.
One cop raced up to her, grabbing her wrists. Get on the fucking ground, he yelled, pulling her away from the student. Get on the ground, I said, he repeated.
Fohlin opened her mouth to protest as the officer kept his grip locked on her wrist. Do not, Im a ... she said, before the cop violently flipped her onto the ground, smashing her head into the sidewalk.
Ow my head, you just hit my head on the concrete! Fohlin yelled. Another cop joined to help press her into the ground. The two pinned her hands behind her back, as they proceeded to secure her hands with zip ties.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/cop-slammed-emory-professor-caroline-fohlins-head-into-concrete-then-charged-her-with-battery
Echoes of 1968....deja vu all over again
obamanut2012
(26,180 posts)Quote a few posters were mocking her and blaming her, so I appreciate your post.
Knr
Big Blue Marble
(5,155 posts)posters were mocking her and blaming her?
I watched the video; she was not even a protestor.
It is very clear, she was just concerned for the students.
And the police became aggressive then threw her to the ground.
I though DU was a place where civil rights matter and police
brutality is condemned. What is happening to this site?
obamanut2012
(26,180 posts)Big Blue Marble
(5,155 posts)EndlessWire
(6,573 posts)to be interfering with the arrest. While she did not touch anybody, she leaned down to interrupt whatever they were doing. That's why that one cop rushed over and made her get down. He probably didn't know what else she was going to do. She misjudged what she could do here.
I am totally against these out of control cops who think they can do what they want to your body during an arrest, but there is at least a little bit on their side here. But, no, they were excessively rough with her, not even giving her a chance to comply before they were roughing her up. And no, there was no battery on any of them.
I once heard that, during an arrest, if you so much as tensed a muscle you could be charged with resisting arrest. That is their go to charge, always. I do not think that many, if any, people can avoid tensing a muscle when they are being thrown around like that. During the 60s, groups used to teach how to let your body go limp during arrest, but I think that nowadays it doesn't matter what you do, because the cops make the arrest violent all on their own.
I saw this clip, and I am on this teacher's side. She probably didn't realize what that was going to look like to a cop. Certainly, after he grabbed her, the cop didn't let her peacefully surrender, but he did do what he had been trained to do, unfortunately. She got jerked around by the cops. I have often thought that if I were being arrested, they would probably injure my shoulders badly, as I don't think I could comply with putting my hands behind my back while lying on the ground like that. I think they would pull your arms out of their sockets just to insure that they got you. And, I have seen my brother arrested, and cops are unnecessarily aggressive out of excitement and fear.
Again, I want to make it clear that I wouldn't convict her in court, but she should have stood back from them and yelled, not approaching them. That's where she went wrong. You can't expect violent people to be nonviolent. And, they have guns and tasers, and they are dangerous.
LeftInTX
(25,719 posts)Someone I know approached a sheriff deputy during a protest. She had young adults with her and thought if she was arrested it would protect the young adults from getting records. She went to the cop and said, "Take me instead". That cop slammed her down silly and injured her. She spent two night in jail. I think the young adults ended up there anyway.
LeonidPlanck
(89 posts)An additional resisting charge, its meant to make hauling you off more difficult. Best thing to do when faced with arrest is to comply. The cops generally are just rounding you up: its the prosecutor who finalizes the charges and most likely will plea or drop a resisting charge unless you were legit combative.
At the end of the day the prosecutor will want a win on their docket and will wheel-and-deal the minutiae to get it. Theyll often drop charges just to get you on the one they were originally eyeballing.
Heres another interesting tidbit: whats brown and black and looks great on a lawyer?
A Doberman.
Voltaire2
(13,244 posts)Why?
Happy Hoosier
(7,454 posts)Telling them to stop and expressing concern for students is not interfering in an arrest in any meanigful way.
I'm sick to death of cops being presented as unimpeachable arms of the law. They are not, or at least should not be in a free society.
EndlessWire
(6,573 posts)I knew when I posted my opinion that I would probably have opposition. This board has a history of being brutal with anyone with a diverse opinion. So, this will probably be the last comment I post on this thread.
Like it or not, if you get your face down low like that, you are interfering with an arrest. I'm not saying that they were right! I'm saying that she went beyond a protest. She was okay as she was walking forward and yelling at them, what are you doing, etc., and nothing happened to her, but when she leaned over and got her head down there, she was in their purview of arrest.
Hopefully, she will have jurors who see it the way you do. But, a case can be made that she was interfering with the arrest at the point that she leaned down really close to the student's head. She leaned down far enough to have been doing the arrest herself. At that point, the other cop obviously thought that she was doing something unlawful, and he rushed to push her away. He made the decision to arrest her, and after that, she got roughed up, the same as the student that she was trying to protect..
I am NOT presenting cops as "unimpeachable arms of the law." I went with what I saw on the clip. The cops may be wrong in making an arrest, they may be violent and overreaching, but if you do what she did, you can be arrested. Many people choose that course of action, and more power to them. But, they should be aware of what it looks like to a cop, and the cops are dangerous. We have a lot of examples of that. Maybe they made an unlawful arrest. But, they could have killed her, and she would be just as dead. That's the point.
I hesitate to say this, but not everything a cop does is wrong. The last cop there wasn't wrong to push her away. I think he was wrong to rough her up. And I think that her announcing she was a professor may have led to harsher charges because of her perceived connections. But, at the time she could have been anybody.
I am a person who looks at both sides. I would look at this like an arrest gone wrong. He wasn't wrong to push her away, but he was wrong to rough her up. So, I don't think it matters whether he was right or wrong about an arrest; he was wrong in how he did it, and certainly banging her head against concrete would be unlawful all on its own.
Do you remember the man who was arrested in a park fairly recently? They banged his head against concrete, and he died. A death sentence. Or, what about the guy who became paralyzed after they violently arrested him? All for what? And, what about the fat man they had laid on his stomach, with onlookers yelling at cops to help him, but the man stopped breathing, and died. Or, what about the woman they stuffed in the back seat of a cruiser to drive her to jail, after ignoring her personal pleas that she was in trouble? She stopped breathing in the back seat, and was DOA. Or, what about the man they arrested, and propped up against their vehicle, and he died? All of this from mishandling prisoners. It's horrible. Real people, in trouble from cops.
So, don't you accuse me of presenting cops as "unimpeachable arms of the law. " No comment I have ever posted here has been biased like that. You have to look at it from both sides. That's what I did.
Happy Hoosier
(7,454 posts)And my "you" was more general, not specifically directed at you, so sorry for that confusion... that's on me.
But IMHO, a citizen expressing their concern about the behavior of the cops cannot and MUST not be defined as interfering with an arrest unless they are physically trying to impede the cop. People openly and loudly expressing concern for people as they are abused by cops byight have saved George Floyd's life. But I suspect people were reluctant to express more than mild concern because of threats from the police. No... not everything a cop does is wrong. But IMO, they do not have the right to go without public criticism, even, or especially while on duty.
We MUST reverse the trend of giving the cops such broad deference in the perfomrance of their duties. They serve us, not the other way around. I think we can agree on that.
niyad
(113,770 posts)Celerity
(43,682 posts)Some here want a compliant, 'doff the cap to pretty much anything Israel does' stance from basically all parties involved, right up to and including the highest power structures of the US government.
If a person is desirous of making that omelette, well then, they will likely have little moral quandary over more than a few eggs needing to be cracked.
Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #1)
Post removed
Lucky Luciano
(11,267 posts)Cops in the US never see de-escalation as the optimal decision.
haele
(12,688 posts)Most bystanders who won't typically deal with police will ask them "what they are doing?" if they see actions that seem particularly egregious, especially a bystander who is used to being an authority figure themselves.
She saw cops being overly harsh with a student. And she did exactly what I might have done in a similar situation.
Haele
AverageOldGuy
(1,564 posts)True. Could be because the cops make up the laws as they go along.
Magoo48
(4,722 posts)Arent we we free to do this according to the Constitution of the United States?
Shouldnt free, unarmed people be free from attacks by angered driven, militarized police?
OldBaldy1701E
(5,195 posts)Nope. Especially when it interferes with profit. You mess with the money flow and watch what happens. There are days, I am convinced that one could get off much easier with multiple murder charges than embezzling $5,000 from a multi-national corporation.
Zeitghost
(3,892 posts)Emory University is under no obligation to give protesters a place to disrupt the campus. As soon as the University asked them to stop their protest or leave campus and they refused they became trespassers.
Voltaire2
(13,244 posts)In particular the left has no such right.
Response to Post removed (Reply #12)
Post removed
PatSeg
(47,711 posts)and smacked her head on the concrete when she clearly was not a physical threat. I don't think the cop's response was proportional to the perceived non-compliance.
getagrip_already
(14,934 posts)Yes, he took her down, but it wasn't "violent". It was forceful, but not violent. Was it necessary? Hell no. But it wasn't excessive.
And I never saw her head slam into the sidewalk. Slam. A very specific term. She was mostly on the grass I didn't see her head strike the concrete.
But, no matter. They could have had one officer talk to her and defuse the situation. The guy with auto weapon was a little over the top. Too itchy for the situation. Keep him in the van.
PatSeg
(47,711 posts)that I had a visceral reaction watching the video. I could imagine what it would feel like and how much damage and pain it might cause.
Big Blue Marble
(5,155 posts)She cried out that she had hit her head. There will be a law suit.
getagrip_already
(14,934 posts)She resisted arrest. Yes, she shouldn't have been put in cuffs, just pointed away, but once hands were on her she should have complied. She didn't. She pulled back and away. She tried to break aw a y.
That is 100% the wrong reaction. Any juror looking at that video will see that.
She wouldn't win a suit. Others will. Not her. She is a snowflake.
manicdem
(395 posts)It looked like it was aimed at the grass and it was a controlled take down. And her head wasn't slammed into the concrete. She'd be screaming in pain or stunned/unconscious if it was.
PatSeg
(47,711 posts)through our own personal lens. As a woman, I saw unnecessary force and violence. I understand that not everyone will see it the same way I did.
orangecrush
(19,661 posts)And expressed concern, and was assaulted.
Fuck cop worship and the fucked up Nazi assholes who do.
And it looked to me like these sadistic pricks were having a real fun time beating up women.
demmiblue
(36,911 posts)No I'm not. Thank goodness for the ignore function!
shrike3
(3,847 posts)shrike3
(3,847 posts)I certainly didn't see anyone mocking her. That was a pretty brutal video.
Marcus IM
(2,268 posts)It's an example free zone now.
shrike3
(3,847 posts)obamanut2012
(26,180 posts)shrike3
(3,847 posts)But I honestly did not see anything.
2naSalit
(86,890 posts)Diraven
(545 posts)When they arrest people for BS reasons.
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)I hope she sues, and it stays in the news.
Biophilic
(3,723 posts)And when he slammed her head onto the sidewalk I wanted to scream. It was awful. Now the bastard comes back with charges for her. Yeah, shads of 68. I feel so friggin helpless. The police really are becoming dangerous with their paramilitary equipment and mind set. I know there are only a few bad apples but you have no warning before you get one.
Big Blue Marble
(5,155 posts)These are cops trained to put down riots, and violent behavior. Much
of these training originated after 9/11 when the police were given
federal funds, military training, and equipment to deal with
possible terror attacks that never happened. (thank god).
And many police come out of the military where they are taught
the tactics of war not peaceful assembly.
The question remains why were armed-military style police forces
sent in to "quell" an unarmed and peaceful protest of students.
Biophilic
(3,723 posts)PatSeg
(47,711 posts)to used the sophisticated military equipment. The attitude during the Bush administration was the government is giving away all this free stuff, much of it not needed by the average police department.
Big Blue Marble
(5,155 posts)I feared the repercussions then and see those fears too often realized now.
PatSeg
(47,711 posts)Definitely "toys for boys". I find it all terrifying.
Big Blue Marble
(5,155 posts)The right to peacefully assemble is seriously under threat.
PatSeg
(47,711 posts)LT Barclay
(2,613 posts)Remember the "free speech zones" with protestors contained within construction fencing during mini-Bush era?
For a real eye-opener, watch "The Trial of the Chicago 7".
Big Blue Marble
(5,155 posts)Yes, I hated Bush's "free speech zones.." which were always far away
from where Bush would be speaking. A total ruse, and yet was pretty
much accepted as OK.
PatSeg
(47,711 posts)"Free speech zones". Trump was so bad, I often forget how bad the Bush years were.
I was in Chicago during the Chicago 7 trial and my husband at the time went to the trial most days. The stories he came home with at night were incredible.
LT Barclay
(2,613 posts)The implications of what happened, the infiltration of a peaceful protest group was appalling.
I no longer believe any of it was random and now believe there is an ongoing war against the left. At least going back to WW2, and maybe earlier. Or maybe its just a continuation of the class warfare that has gone on since the first caveman convinced a few others that he should be king.
PatSeg
(47,711 posts)yes it was accurate, though I think things were far worse than the movie portrays. Mayor Daley was like a mob boss and the way he treated the delegates at the convention was appalling. Then he set his thugs on the protestors in the park. He gave police the authority to be violent and even lethal. The police were randomly bashing heads.
We didn't know how bad some of it was until footage came out much later. I've only voted republican one time in my life and that was to vote against that monster.
Yes, I'm sure there has always been a war against the left and it is more in the public eye when the left fights back like in the sixties. It is really a resistance to change and the ongoing struggle between those in power against those who threaten that power.
summer_in_TX
(2,767 posts)They usually require expensive specialized fuel and lubricants, special training and maintenance. The costs to those receiving the equipment are not transparent to taxpayers, as Ive found In attending my countys Commissioners Court.
Id like to see a whole lot more transparency around all the costs involved.
PatSeg
(47,711 posts)of using and maintaining such equipment, though I was aware that the average cop was not qualified to operate them. It felt like a lot of boys getting excited over getting new "toys" that the government was paying for.
The Bush administration was about a lot of reckless, expensive giveaways, because it looked patriotic. The excess and incompetence was stunning.
Hekate
(90,971 posts)Bettie
(16,139 posts)where they are trained by the IDF. They are trained to see policing as urban warfare, and we're all the enemy.
Article from 2019, it hasn't got any better since.
https://progressive.org/latest/us-police-trained-by-israel-communities-of-color-paying-price-shahshahani-cohen-191007/
In recent years, Georgia has experienced troubling trends in fatal police shootings.
These incidents nearly doubled in the state, up 77 percent between 2017 to 2018. By May 2018, Georgia was already reportedly experiencing a more rapid rise in officer-involved shootings than the rest of the country. According to an investigation of deadly police shootings in Georgia, in the six years after 2010, 184 people were shot and killed by police; almost half of them unarmed or shot in the back.
In 2019, Georgia has already recorded twenty-two fatal police shootings, The Washington Post reports.
As this has unfolded, Georgia continues to pursue a police exchange program with the state of Israel. Run through Georgia State University, the Georgia International Law Enforcement Exchange arranges for American law enforcement officials, corporate security executives, and police officers to engage in trainings, briefings, and seminars with governments including that of China, Colombia, Egypt, Hungary, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and the original and primary focus of the program, Israel.
For twenty-seven years, police departments in Georgia have received grants from the U.S. Department of Justice that subsidize these trainings. Since the programs inception in 1992, it has trained at least 1,700 participants, including officers from the Atlanta Police Department.
Law enforcement from other U.S. states have participated in the program, including those from Tennessee, Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Floria, Georgia, Indiana, North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Nevada, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, Wahsington, D.C., and West Virginia.
Biophilic
(3,723 posts)Certainly one more reason to keep the MAGAts and republicans out of office.
Big Blue Marble
(5,155 posts)It is hard to miss the irony.
niyad
(113,770 posts)This is such appalling, important information. Thanks in advance.
electric_blue68
(14,986 posts)Waaay before Bibi's excessive actions I've heard of questionable actions by some IDF.
markpkessinger
(8,409 posts). . . is that it is too often invoked without the second half of the aphorism. The aphorism in full is: "A few bad apples spoil the bushel." In other words, the rot you see is never confined to what you see. And even those who purport to be "good cops" defend these colleagues to the hilt.
electric_blue68
(14,986 posts)?too many have an authoritarian streak to begin with!!! So yikes!
PatSeg
(47,711 posts)and I could picture it happening to me. I also got flashbacks to '68.
Conjuay
(1,435 posts)Oh BULLSHIT. Each and every one is a jack booted thug. Remember during BLM?
75 year old man got his skull cracked by the SAME GOON MENTALITY.
Demilitarize these sadists.
electric_blue68
(14,986 posts)people, other POC, women, and students in particular.
I saw one person; looked like cop was threatening him heading as I & my sis were going towards a NYC Anti Iraq War protest.
Under certain circumstances when I see a lot of police I definitely feel uncomfortable, and keep my eyes out, and try to say clear of them!
Anyway what a hideous incident among too many over decades & decades!
😬😬😬 Read enough stories, seen enough videos!!!
Voltaire2
(13,244 posts)It is policing as an institution in our system.
Hong Kong Cavalier
(4,573 posts)...spoils the barrel" is the full quote.
It means if you find a bad apple in a bunch of them, the rot spreads much faster.
Corruption and brutality like this festers in organizations like the police, and if it's not isolated and removed (which it rarely is, of course) it spreads throughout the entire group.
Few will speak out against their 'brothers' for fear of retaliation. The police "unions" are simply organized gangs. (Look up Bob Kroll from the Minneapolis Police Department as an example).
Most of them are MAGAts, and the few that are won't oppose their fellow officers (again, for fear of retaliation.) It's why Internal Affairs is so hated in police departments; they exist to investigate police officers and are thought of as 'traitors'.
Consider that Internal Affairs depicted in television shows is usually portrayed as 'the enemy' of the police because of the rampant copaganda that exists in Hollywood police procedural shows.
electric_blue68
(14,986 posts)Definitely that fear of retaliation to themselves, or Family members stays many hands so to speak.
Response to Hong Kong Cavalier (Reply #86)
electric_blue68 This message was self-deleted by its author.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,487 posts)Ping Tung
(755 posts)Sky Jewels
(7,190 posts)triron
(22,029 posts)calimary
(81,562 posts)And hows the victim doing? What a horrible thing to have to live through!
littlemissmartypants
(22,850 posts)obamanut2012
(26,180 posts)Who cares who her husband is? You kept repeating this snd snarki g at her in the other thread. Who caresxwho she is married to.
Big Blue Marble
(5,155 posts)Why are you multiply posting these tweets? She is a human being
who acted with compassion toward the students and was brutally
slammed to the ground, arrested and charged unfairly. Who cares
who her husband is.
littlemissmartypants
(22,850 posts)I'm sorry if me sharing facts offended you.
Oh, well.
Big Blue Marble
(5,155 posts)Just curious, why you posted something superfluous to the conversation.
littlemissmartypants
(22,850 posts)Big Blue Marble
(5,155 posts)littlemissmartypants
(22,850 posts)LeftInTX
(25,719 posts)They're kinda like the cops at UT.
A riot squad of state police was called to UT before the protest even started.
They reminded me of storm troopers.
Tickle
(2,585 posts)shut down before they could protest also
TheBlackAdder
(28,241 posts)LuvLoogie
(7,066 posts)malaise
(269,254 posts)It is as bad or worse than 68.
PatrickforB
(14,602 posts)Thing is, law enforcement is NOT a war like they are being trained to believe, and we are NOT the enemy.
sop
(10,284 posts)Imagine what could happen if they grant presidents total immunity.
NoMoreRepugs
(9,500 posts)Iggo
(47,586 posts)Blue Owl
(50,547 posts)Sue the fuck outta them and strip those officers of their badges
Bluethroughu
(5,204 posts)She has a first amendment right to protest. This was a Civil Rights violation, with cruel and unusual punishment.
CitizenZero
(538 posts)I don't understand why cops are being brought in at all. People have a First Amendment right to protest. You may agree or disagree with the protestors, but I think calling cops in to bust up peaceful protest is anti American and frankly fascist. Imagine if we were protesting a second term of Trump and they call out the National Guard or the Military to bust us up, maybe even arrest us and put us into a camp. We need to defend the right to protest NOW before it is taken away from us. Cops busting up lawful protest is dangerous and shameful.
Zeitghost
(3,892 posts)On private property.
Turbineguy
(37,392 posts)Do you like to beat up on women?
Does somebody who asks you a question challenge your manhood?
moniss
(4,274 posts)claim he was in fear for his life.
Rhiannon12866
(206,579 posts)niyad
(113,770 posts)RockRaven
(15,062 posts)And cop friends also copping...
"ACAB" doesn't spring forth out of the ground without prompting.
Maggiemayhem
(811 posts)Maggiemayhem
(811 posts)gulliver
(13,198 posts)It was a good arrest. Is it battery? I didn't see that. I'm sure the woman understands that she was committing a crime in interfering with the arrest. Civil disobedience? Sure.
This is one reason I think Hamas attacked the United States on Oct. 7th, not just Israel.
Jilly_in_VA
(10,041 posts)"What are you doing?" interfering with an arrest? I hardly think so.
Martin68
(22,945 posts)Happy Hoosier
(7,454 posts)And would probably win.
Althoyugh I think many of the protestors are victims of propoaganda, they have the right to demonstrate peacefully. That includes this professor who was not violating the law in any way.
Marcus IM
(2,268 posts)With Whom are Many U.S. Police Departments Training? With a Chronic Human Rights Violator Israel
When the U.S. Department of Justice published a report opens in a new tab Aug. 10 that documented widespread constitutional violations, discriminatory enforcement, and culture of retaliation within the Baltimore Police Department (BPD), there was rightly a general reaction of outrage.
But what hasnt received as much attention is where Baltimore police received training on crowd control, use of force and surveillance: Israels national police, military and intelligence services.
Baltimore law enforcement officials, along with hundreds of others from Florida opens in a new tab, New Jersey opens in a new tab, Pennsylvania, California opens in a new tab, Arizona opens in a new tab, Connecticut, New York opens in a new tab, Massachusetts, North Carolina, Georgia opens in a new tab, Washington state opens in a new tab as well as the DC Capitol police have all traveled to Israel for training. Thousands of others have received training from Israeli officials here in the U.S. opens in a new tab
Many of these trips are taxpayer funded while others are privately funded. Since 2002, the Anti-Defamation League, the American Jewish Committees Project Interchange and the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs have paid for police chiefs, assistant chiefs and captains to train in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT).
These trainings put Baltimore police and other U.S. law enforcement employees in the hands of military, security and police systems that have racked up documented human rights violations for years. Amnesty International opens in a new tab, other human rights organizations and even the U.S. Department of State opens in a new tab have cited Israeli police for carrying out extrajudicial executions opens in a new tab and other unlawful killings opens in a new tab, using ill treatment and torture opens in a new tab (even against children opens in a new tab), suppression of freedom of expression/association opens in a new tab including through government surveillance opens in a new tab, and excessive use of force against peaceful protesters.
More ...
https://www.amnestyusa.org/updates/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/
Marcus IM
(2,268 posts)
N.Y. law enforcement leaders training in Israel safely evacuated after attacks
The delegation was near the Gaza strip for counterterrorism and antisemitism training when the Hamas attacks began SaturdayNYPD leaders were a part of a metro-area delegation attending a counterterrorism and antisemitism training near the Gaza strip, according to the report. They arrived on Thursday and were close to the attacks when they occurred.
https://www.police1.com/terrorism/articles/ny-law-enforcement-leaders-training-in-israel-safely-evacuated-after-attacks-tkMSruVDbwBMccXt/
cornball 24
(1,481 posts)evals henceforth.