My last post on Israel/Palestine

[orangecrush]

My oversimplified take on things.

Iran, Hamas and Putin orchestrated a horrific, despicable attack on Israel.

This helped Putin by diverting attention from Ukraine.

As they were counting on, Netanyahu was totally unprepared, and to cover his ass launched a genocidal attack on Gaza.

This helped Putin, Iran and Hamas by making the U.S. (Biden) look like monsters for supporting Israel, and took the focus off of Putin's genocide in Ukraine.

This has further caused a rift in the Democratic party, as can be seen in the posts here, which helps Putin by helping Trump.

I find the simultaneous outbreak of campus protest with the passage of an aid bill highly suspect, as I do the media amplification of same.

The whole thing smells of FSB and Russian geopolitics from start to present, and I'm not pointing a finger at the Israeli or Palestinian victims, but at Putin, Hamas who obviously doesn't give two shits about Gaza, and Netanyahu who would sell his mother to stay out of prison and in power.

Oh, and the media spin on the whole ugly scenario.

Biden is not going to stop support for Israel. He is doing everything he can to rein in Netanyahu, and stop the slaughter on both sides. I believe that without reservation.

If you have a dog in this fight, I suggest you decide who you hate worse - each other, or Donald Fucking Trump, think about how his victory will affect your cause, and direct your energies toward his defeat.

[Tetrachloride]

1. "..... doing everything he can" ?

[orangecrush]

5. Yes.

Everything possible within realistic expectations.

You disagree?

[Tetrachloride]

7. of course

cf the movie

The Shoes of The Fisherman

[Big Blue Marble]

8. I disagree.

He can stop the transfer of offensive weapons to Israel which violate
US Law as this author recommends:

NYT letter to the Editor:

But it is not too late to reverse course. In a decision due May 8, the Biden administration can and should conclude that Israel’s assurances that weapons it receives from the U.S. will be used in accordance with international humanitarian law and that it will facilitate the passage of humanitarian aid are not credible. On that basis Mr. Biden must stop the transfer of offensive weapons to Israel.

The evidence that Israel’s assurances are not credible is now overwhelming. Israel continues its severe restrictions on aid and safe passage within Gaza to reach starving people. Ambulance and medical convoy staff have been killed on supposedly safe routes.

Israel’s breaches of international law are now amply documented, especially its flouting duties of proportionality and taking all feasible precautions to minimize civilian harm. It has even shown indifference to the obligation to prevent patients inside hospitals from dying during hospital sieges.

Leonard Rubenstein
Alexandria, Va.
The writer is a professor at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and the author of “Perilous Medicine: The Struggle to Protect Health Care From the Violence of War.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/24/opinion/joe-biden-israel-gaza-war.html

[Earth-shine]

9. I mostly agree. I think Biden is also being influenced by our military-industrial players

who make a lot of money when the Israelis get weapons.

It's been a river of money. Can't stop rivers. They always reach the sea (says Led Zeppelin).

Biden's reelection is the only hope for the free world. As suggested in post #2 below, there is a right-wing alliance of Putin, Trump, Netanyahu, and others. It will destroy the world starting with Gaza and Ukraine, and then onto America and Europe.

[Dave Bowman]

19. "Can't stop rivers. They always reach the sea"

Well, the Colorado River hasn't reached the ocean once in the last 10 years.

[dutch777]

31. Even if issue for Biden is the mil-industrial complex...we can buy the weapons and just hold them.

And that same complex is doing well as even more goes to Ukraine and US mil has increased orders for all the stuff early on we transferred to Ukraine from our reserve stocks. Allies are upping orders as well given Putin's actions and the threats in the Pacific as well. I read somewhere that Ukraine has fired 2 million 155 millimeter artillery shells so far. In WW1 Britain alone fired 170. million shells. Staggering

[Earth-shine]

34. Perhaps you never heard President Eisenhower's warning about the military-industrial complex.

Peace is not an option when so much money is made in war.

Buying and holding weapons is not an option. There's a limit to what can be held. They need a constant outflow of missiles, bombs, tech, and guns to justify the spending of acquiring more.

[GiqueCee]

16. Simplistic expectations...

... ignore the realities of the political gamesmanship inherent in trying to shepherd such a hyper-sensitive bill through the House and the Senate, where even Democrats had issues with the complexities of the the 3-way package.
Top-of-mind for Biden is aid to Ukraine, by far the most critically important beneficiary of aid, insofar as it being the front line – and first pawn – of Putin's diseased assault on democracy in Europe, and, in Putin's fevered mind, at least, the world. Only blithering idiots doubt Putin's obsessive resolve to bring America to its knees by attacking it, and its allies, in any and every way possible. And they are too stupid to be worth the exhalation to tell them so. They wouldn't listen, or comprehend, anyway. Ukraine is the canary in the coal mine, and NOTHING is more important than saving it. Slava Ukraini!
There are Democrats and Republicans – strange bedfellows indeed – who objected to limitations on the aid to Israel, and some who objected to the aid at all. Bibi is not well liked even within his own country, and his malevolent belligerence and total disregard for international law will come back to haunt him, BIGLY.
And the strategic issues that surround aid to Taiwan make 3-dimensional chess in total darkness look like tiddley-winks. Biden had to thread all these needles at once. And he succeeded. So, to all those that doubt his legislative prowess, permit me to respectfully suggest that they STFU.

[Think. Again.]

2. I suspect netanyahu wasn't totally...

...blind to such an operation.

Edit to add: I suspect the rightwing is a coordinated global movement and not just separate, individual factions in every country.

[TexasBushwhacker]

10. I agree

I think Bibi would be more than happy to turn Gaza into a parking lot. What he may not have been expecting is the outcry over Palestinian deaths.

[orangecrush]

27. I agree

I think he also realizes that the overreach hurts Biden.

[Cirroc]

3. Agreed

It's all a trap set by Putin to distract from Ukraine and it might still work. I hope we can stay together at least long enough to defeat Trump.

[applegrove]

4. I've thought it was a Russian plan since Oct 7, all

to negatively affect Biden's chances at re-election: the more israelis & Palestinians dead the better for the plan to succeed.

I don't think Israel thought so many Palestinians would stay behind in the north after they were told Israel was going to bomb. Many did. There is a martyr culture Hamas has no doubt encouraged. Would be nice if Hamas had reused the vegetable greenhouses Israeli left behind when Israel left Gaza years ago but that is not how they roll. They grow martyrs instead.

[orangecrush]

6. And I expect more of the same

As time goes on.

[RandomNumbers]

30. Same here. I get that not everyone is tuned in or knows the history

but the over-simplification and diversion of some factions is really getting to me sometimes.

Not to mention the incessant virtue-signaling.

Sure there are bad things happening but people need to pay attention to the actual source of what is going on.

[TBF]

11. Yes it absolutely does smell like Putin, especially with the student groups

at universities that were in place and ready by Oct. 7th. This was a very well-planned event by Hamas (obviously supported by Iran & most likely Russia behind the scenes) and they could guess how Netanyahu would react to it.

[Hope22]

12. One extra piece...

….how much US intelligence, stolen by TSF has fed into this complete debacle? It is just too perfect of a storm!!!

[orangecrush]

26. Abswer

Anything he had his tiny hands on, imo

[sheshe2]

28. Excellent explanation.

[AnrothElf]

13. Not "genocidal". Words have meanings.

No discussion is possible with folks who insist on using this bad-faith, reality denying bumper sticker propaganda.

[PCIntern]

22. Correct.

[bluescribbler]

14. Thank you. We need to hear that.

May I please share this? (With full attribution, of course).

[orangecrush]

25. Of course

Thanks

[ananda]

15. Sounds about right to me.

I never liked Netanyahu.

He's a horrible monster, in league with
both Putin and Trump.

The whole thing stinks in every possible way.

It's totally lose lose for all those who are
pro-democracy and anti anti-semitic.

[LymphocyteLover]

17. My take is similar

[Sky Jewels]

18. Israel knew Hamas' attack plan more than a year before it happened.

That's not me saying that -- those are the Israel-friendly New York Times' words:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html

So Netanyahu was not caught unprepared. IMO, it is likely that this was a LIHOP situation, analogous to 9-11: "Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in U.S." Just as Cheney and the PNAC Neocons publicly pined for a "Pearl Harbor"-like scenario as an excuse to invade and plunder Iraq for profit, Bibi likely wanted an excuse to level Gaza and genocidally slaughter its residents without mercy so Israelis can take it over and settle it and erect buildings over the skeletons of tens of thousands of dead Muslims.

Netanyahu doesn't give a shit about the Israeli hostages. He didn't even try anything rational to get them back after the horrific terrorist attacks on 10/7. He just started bombing the shit out of Gaza, including hospitals...almost as if that was the plan all along. It is chillingly evil. Anyone who supports this mass murder of Gazans had best examine their own sense of humanity and morality.

[blue-wave]

20. K & R You

Explain the whole scenario very well, everything I was thinking about the situation.

[orangecrush]

24. Thank you

If I'm lucky they'll give me a job cleaning toilets at State

[Joinfortmill]

21. Amen

[Ford_Prefect]

23. I disagree on how "prepared" Netanyahu was. He seems to have had long term plans ready for such an occurrence.

I agree they willfully ignored warnings about the possibility, likelihood, or even the probable date of the attack. However the Israeli military and the RW cabal which runs Israel under Bibi are well known for their prior planning for many such eventualities. They laid on the Gaza warfare in a very organized, methodical way. The behavior of the Settlers seems to have been coordinated too.

Putin, Iran, et al pushed the Hamas buttons to goad Israel into the reprisals in Gaza with a clear understanding of how Netanyahu would respond. It is entirely likely that tRump provided some of the intelligence about how Israel had already planned to demolish Gaza should the opportunity present itself. Although it seems not much of a stretch to figure that out given the attitude of Likud's leadership.

During the bad old days of the Cold War, East and West both manipulated the Israel/Arab States/Palestinian/Lebanese relationships to gain leverage elsewhere and to distract from other events, along with testing intelligence doctrine and weapons platforms in situ. This situation begat the Lebanese Civil War, several Arab/Israeli border wars, the seemingly interminable deconstruction of Gaza and the West Bank due to ever expanding and radicalized Zionist settlements, and ever increasing foreign and military aid programs in every Congressional budget.

As Jimmy Carter found out, the State Department, CIA, and the Pentagon all desired to continue the conflicts for their own agendas rather than have a meaningful and lasting peace.

We are on the brink of full scale warfare because for the roughly the last 75 years or so we have found it worthwhile to ignore parts of the middle eastern human equation, as have our various adversaries and allies.

It is past time for someone to stand up and act like a grownup and call out the warmongers and the manipulators, including our own.
I do not see that tRump nor most in his party are willing to or have the capacity to do act as the diplomatic referee. I am concerned that some in our party have lost the thread as well. IMO Biden has tried, and needs to try even harder, and needs the help of those with enough vision to help resolve this terrible situation.

Blaming him for Netanyahu's excesses is not fair nor accurate. Sadly we do not hold the reins to Israel any more than we do Iran. Although we can have significantly more influence in Tel Aviv than Tehran.

[walkingman]

29. A good post. We have had times in history when our Democracy was threatened

and the people of America have always come through and I don't view this as any different. If "the people" do not stand up for our Democracy then we basically will get the government we deserve.

The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is ugly and both sides have contributed for a long long time. There is no easy solution.

Protest is not a bad thing as long as it is not violent. I think a small number of bad people are intentionally causing this trouble around the country. I do not fault the student for expressing their frustration. It a basic principle of a Democracy. I do think there is a lot of over-reaction by some of the campuses - UT-Austin for example - but we will get past this and hopefully vote to keep our Democracy.

[orangecrush]

37. Agree

And thank you.

[Oopsie Daisy]

32. There are many who fall for Hamas propaganda, and who eagerly repeat Russian propaganda.

[bamagal62]

33. And the media

Is trying to blur the lines between Hamas and Palestine. This whole thing stinks.

[Cha]

35. Well Done, orangecrush! Good Analysis.. And I believe..

it's true.

It's like Putin got the Trojan Horse's Ass TSF in the White House... Megalomaniac taking over the World.

Well We Democracy Loving People Are Not Going to let that Happen!

think about how his victory will affect your cause, and direct your energies toward his defeat.

And, how it will affect our Lives.

[orangecrush]

36. Thank you, Cha

[former9thward]

38. The Israeli response has nothing to do with the charges against Netanyahu.

They have been ongoing since 2019 and the trial is continuing during the war. Since the trial is continuing (Netanyahu is not required to attend court sessions) then the meme that Netanyahu is continuing the war is proven false. The trial will continue for at least another year, war or no war. If Netanyahu is found guilty, he can appeal to the Supreme Court. That process will take years. The most likely sentence if he is found guilty is a fine -- not prison.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/5/netanyahus-corruption-trial-resumes-amid-israeli-war-on-gaza-what-to-know#:~:text=Netanyahu%20has%20been%20charged%20with%20fraud%2C%20bribery%20and,a%20fine%20if%20convicted%20in%20a%20bribery%20case.