General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"Crooked Joe Biden is responsible for banning TikTok." - Trump
I've been beating my [brains] out here warning of the political dangers of trying to ban TikTok, antagonising some, if not all of its 170+ million American users. And yes, the current bill would end up banning, not the sale of TikTok - Democratic Underground
It is not argument to say that if young people stay at home, fuck em'. Imagine if FaceBook was banned in the U.S. but still available in Canada, Mexico, the EU and the rest of the world? Nor is it much of an argument to say that TikTok may only be banned after the election. Trump does not care, nor will some of the kids. Peeling away 5% of younger voters could swing the election.
No, It's not about National Security: 'Biden and the Democrats have done a dirty deal with Mark Zuckerberg?' Another Big Lie, to be taken up by Fox and his MAGA stooges. One silver lining is that Trump has jumped the gun, exposing his line of attack before the bill has reached the President's desk.
WarGamer
(12,463 posts)speak easy
(9,297 posts)Ocelot II
(115,831 posts)WarGamer
(12,463 posts)after signature, 12 months to change ownership or it dies.
CCP won't allow sale right now.
Kingofalldems
(38,470 posts)Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #24)
WarGamer This message was self-deleted by its author.
Kingofalldems
(38,470 posts)Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #27)
WarGamer This message was self-deleted by its author.
Kingofalldems
(38,470 posts)womanofthehills
(8,759 posts)Saying- if they pass it Ill sign it
Kid on TicToc -There are 8 yrs of Gen Z on TicToc - you really want to take that away in an election yr?
Celerity
(43,491 posts)last birth year of Gen Z will be able to legally use it, the 2012-born.
You have to be 13 to legally have a TikTok account.
As for 2024 voter-age Gen Zers, it is almost 10 years of them, those born 1997 to 2006 (minus the ones born in 2006 who are not 18 when the election happens, so a tiny 8 week or so sliver of that 10 year cohort).
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,847 posts)The cemetery of apps and programs is filled with the graves and zombies of once-popular software that no one missed for very long because they moved on to something better or just hipper.
speak easy
(9,297 posts)Does that answer your question?
honest.abe
(8,685 posts)I do not think this will be a major factor come November. In fact it will still be completely active at that time.
Response to honest.abe (Reply #12)
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honest.abe
(8,685 posts)Response to honest.abe (Reply #18)
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honest.abe
(8,685 posts)Not.
Xavier Breath
(3,650 posts)honest.abe
(8,685 posts)Lemonwurst
(290 posts)So many eminently quotable but otherwise minor lines from that wonderful movie.
Response to Lemonwurst (Reply #30)
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LuvLoogie
(7,025 posts)emulatorloo
(44,176 posts)LuvLoogie
(7,025 posts)is not really banning it. It's a stupid waste of energy. trump wins twice. He gets what he wants with the ban and he gets to blame Joe.
Who wrote the law? Who passed the law? Who's gonna sign it? Not trump. The technicalities don't matter.
Do you want to know who DOESN'T want it banned? 150 million + users. A lot of marginalized people have found a voice there. A lot of action and relationships are born there. It's a real social ecosystem. I challenge you to try it while it's still TikTok and not some Musk/Kushner/Mnuchin bastardization where users have to pay to keep their content and continue posting.
emulatorloo
(44,176 posts)Rather than allowing Trump to lie to them.
Ill note that there was a similar issue w gay dating app Grindr. Owned by a Chinese company, told to sell. The company sold it, it still exists. So it is not unprecedented and it also isnt the fucking end of the world.
Grindr sold by Chinese owner after US raised national security concerns
Zack Whittaker@zackwhittaker / 11:06 AM MSTMarch 6, 2020
https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/06/grindr-sold-china-national-security/
Reuters reports that the Chinese company sold its 98% stake in Grindr to a U.S.-based company, San Vicente Acquisition Partners.
The app, originally developed in Los Angeles, raised national security concerns after it was acquired by Beijing Kunlun in 2016 for $93 million. That ownership was later scrutinized by a U.S. government national security panel, the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS), which reportedly told the Beijing-based parent company that its ownership of Grindr constituted a national security threat.
CFIUS expressed concern that data from the apps some 27 million users could be used by the Chinese government. Last year, it was reported that while under Chinese ownership, Grindr allowed engineers in Beijing access to the personal data of millions of U.S. users, including their private messages and HIV status.
Beijing Kunlun had agreed to sell the unit by June.
LuvLoogie
(7,025 posts)emulatorloo
(44,176 posts)LuvLoogie
(7,025 posts)While I'm sure the Grindr community is quite diverse, there are over 10 times the users on TikTok, and perhaps more LGBTQ users. And they are interacting for a multitude of reasons on a multitude of topics in a multitude of ways.
emulatorloo
(44,176 posts)TikTok has a year to sell.
As to tiktoks new champion and hero, lying Donald Trump, Im sure you saw this post down thread:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18886310
Maru Kitteh
(28,342 posts)want to see people dig in, tell them they can't have something.
If the problems are security and privacy, pass laws dealing with security and privacy - don't select a single company for enforcement actions on an item you have failed to address.
emulatorloo
(44,176 posts)obamanut2012
(26,126 posts)emulatorloo
(44,176 posts)and Trump is lying.
Response to speak easy (Reply #8)
Midnight Writer This message was self-deleted by its author.
womanofthehills
(8,759 posts)Average influencer makes about $150,000. Lots of severely handicapped people making their living on TicToc. 5 to 7% of influencers make in the millions. You can follow some influencers living in their car - eventually moving into super nice apts & houses. Kind of rags to riches stories for good influencers.
TicToc generates $24 billion a yr into US economy. TicToc is worth 50 billion.
honest.abe
(8,685 posts)Please provide link.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,847 posts)LuvLoogie
(7,025 posts)Freethinker65
(10,042 posts)She also believed the kids identifying as furries and litter boxes in classroom bullshit. I wonder how she feels about the current TikTok legislation?
Honestly something else will step in to fill TikTok's place if it doesn't get a new owner for it to be allowed in the US. I quit Facebook well over 5 years ago and quit Twitter before the Musk takeover. Honestly, not all that big of a deal. There is plenty of crap available in apps and online to occupy my time if needed.
Anyone remember MySpace or YikYak?
womanofthehills
(8,759 posts)170 million Americans are on TicToc & it generates $24 billion into American economy a yr - rising every yr.
LuvLoogie
(7,025 posts)TikTok's function is unique. This is a self own by the Dem's
awesomerwb1
(4,268 posts)Young people love TikTok. It would be a really bad mistake to take on TikTok now.
dembotoz
(16,826 posts)for no damn good reason
LuvLoogie
(7,025 posts)IcyPeas
(21,901 posts)Pretty Fly
(66 posts)When he joined tiktok a couple months ago, before he said he'd sign the bill banning the app, the comments on his videos were fairly positive. You had some who were angry over Palestine but for the most part, it wasn't awful.
Now every video he posts, you're lucky to find one positive comment. Most are angry at the ban. Even more so than what's going on in Gaza.
honest.abe
(8,685 posts)If Biden exempts Tiktok from this ban and allows it to function as is, Trump will then say Crooked Biden is a China lover. We can't jump every time Trump says something. Ignore the fool.
Cha
(297,574 posts)On trial for being a CROOK & a 😈
NanaCat
(1,232 posts)Well, just so everyone knows how much of a liar you are, Nodfather, here is the Ghost of Reality Past to remind you that you banned TikTok first:
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.) (IEEPA), the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code,
I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States of America, find that additional steps must be taken to deal with the national emergency with respect to the information and communications technology and services supply chain declared in Executive Order 13873 of May 15, 2019 (Securing the Information and Communications Technology and Services Supply Chain). Specifically, the spread in the United States of mobile applications developed and owned by companies in the Peoples Republic of China (China) continues to threaten the national security, foreign policy, and economy of the United States. At this time, action must be taken to address the threat posed by one mobile application in particular, TikTok.
TikTok, a video-sharing mobile application owned by the Chinese company ByteDance Ltd., has reportedly been downloaded over 175 million times in the United States and over one billion times globally. TikTok automatically captures vast swaths of information from its users, including Internet and other network activity information such as location data and browsing and search histories. This data collection threatens to allow the Chinese Communist Party access to Americans personal and proprietary information potentially allowing China to track the locations of Federal employees and contractors, build dossiers of personal information for blackmail, and conduct corporate espionage.
TikTok also reportedly censors content that the Chinese Communist Party deems politically sensitive, such as content concerning protests in Hong Kong and Chinas treatment of Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities. This mobile application may also be used for disinformation campaigns that benefit the Chinese Communist Party, such as when TikTok videos spread debunked conspiracy theories about the origins of the 2019 Novel Coronavirus.
These risks are real. The Department of Homeland Security, Transportation Security Administration, and the United States Armed Forces have already banned the use of TikTok on Federal Government phones. The Government of India recently banned the use of TikTok and other Chinese mobile applications throughout the country; in a statement, Indias Ministry of Electronics and Information Technology asserted that they were stealing and surreptitiously transmitting users data in an unauthorized manner to servers which have locations outside India. American companies and organizations have begun banning TikTok on their devices. The United States must take aggressive action against the owners of TikTok to protect our national security.
Accordingly, I hereby order:
Section 1. (a) The following actions shall be prohibited beginning 45 days after the date of this order, to the extent permitted under applicable law: any transaction by any person, or with respect to any property, subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, with ByteDance Ltd. (a.k.a. Zìjié Tiàodòng), Beijing, China, or its subsidiaries, in which any such company has any interest, as identified by the Secretary of Commerce (Secretary) under section 1(c) of this order.
(b) The prohibition in subsection (a) of this section applies except to the extent provided by statutes, or in regulations, orders, directives, or licenses that may be issued pursuant to this order, and notwithstanding any contract entered into or any license or permit granted before the date of this order.
(c) 45 days after the date of this order, the Secretary shall identify the transactions subject to subsection (a) of this section.
Sec. 2. (a) Any transaction by a United States person or within the United States that evades or avoids, has the purpose of evading or avoiding, causes a violation of, or attempts to violate the prohibition set forth in this order is prohibited.
(b) Any conspiracy formed to violate any of the prohibitions set forth in this order is prohibited.
{snip - boring definitions list}
Sec. 4. The Secretary is hereby authorized to take such actions, including adopting rules and regulations, and to employ all powers granted to me by IEEPA as may be necessary to implement this order. The Secretary may, consistent with applicable law, redelegate any of these functions within the Department of Commerce. All departments and agencies of the United States shall take all appropriate measures within their authority to implement this order.
Sec. 5. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:
(i) the authority granted by law to an executive department, agency, or the head thereof; or
(ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.
(b) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.
(c) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.
DONALD J. TRUMP
THE WHITE HOUSE,
August 6, 2020.
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-addressing-threat-posed-tiktok/
honest.abe
(8,685 posts)Lancero
(3,011 posts)I'm not a political strategist by any means but it's seems like a bad idea to come out in favor of a ban that we, not that long ago, branded as being driven by racism and xenophobia.
Brother Buzz
(36,458 posts)Downloading TikTok by spoofing your IP address using a VPN to an overseas account is easy peasy, no?
speak easy
(9,297 posts)Brother Buzz
(36,458 posts)I know zip about social media. Zero, zip, zilch, nada.
speak easy
(9,297 posts)and deleted remotely from every U.S. registered phone.
onenote
(42,752 posts)In 2020, Trump issued an executive order to ban TikTok if its parent company did not sell it within 45 days. The order was later blocked in court. As far as TikTok is concerned, we're banning them from the United States, Trump said in July 2020.
I guess now he's soft on China....
Mountainguy
(537 posts)womanofthehills
(8,759 posts)Kids dont know he wanted to ban TicToc in the past.
He will be using this to his advantage big time.
ecstatic
(32,729 posts)I'm not sure that President Biden and many people here understand the last part: Banning tiktok would essentially be firing many people from their jobs. It's not just about scrolling and laughing at funny videos. Many people earn their living off of tiktok based on the content they post.
FYI, I do not use tiktok except for when I have to view links sent by others.
Chakaconcarne
(2,460 posts)onenote
(42,752 posts)struggle4progress
(118,332 posts)Alex Griffing
Apr 22nd, 2024, 7:11 pm
... In August 2020, Trump issued an executive order that would have banned TikTok if the company was not sold within 45 days by its Chinese owners, Bytedance, which he accused of spying on American citizens and harvesting data in a way that threatened U.S. national security ...
https://www.mediaite.com/politics/trump-completes-total-flip-flop-on-tiktok-ban-wants-everyone-especially-the-young-people-to-know-biden-is-responsible/
Executive Order on Addressing the Threat Posed by TikTok
Issued on: August 6, 2020
onenote
(42,752 posts)She's just one of many Trump ass-kissers that voted for legislation banning TikTok last month. In fact, she co-sponsored the bill, which was supported by 197 republicans and only 155 Democrats.
https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/202486?Page=7
DemocratInPa
(355 posts)In 2020, Trump wanted to Ban TikTok, and the Dems were against it.. Now it's reverse..
kind of funny.
Initech
(100,100 posts)Like who benefits from Tik Tok being banned? I feel like that's something that should be known.
womanofthehills
(8,759 posts)From Dec 2023:
TikTok isnt creating false support for Palestine. Its just reflecting whats already there.
For the past month, TikTok has tried to assure business leaders, influencers, and Jewish organizations that it isnt promoting anti-Israel or antisemitic speech on its platform. CEO Shou Chew has reportedly met with executives at Tinder, Facebook, and the Anti-Defamation League, among others, to discuss moderation and misinformation, while its head of operations held a private video call with more than a dozen Jewish TikTokers and celebrities, including Sacha Baron Cohen and Amy Schumer, during which Cohen accused the app of creating the biggest antisemitic movement since the Nazis.
The meetings came after weeks of accusations by lawmakers that TikTok was pushing pro-Palestine videos into users For You pages, quietly indoctrinating Americas young people against the state of Israel. TikTok has denied these claims, writing that the hashtag #standwithisrael had received 46 million views in the US between October 7 and 31, making it one and a half times more popular than the hashtag #standwithpalestine, which received 29 million views.
https://www.vox.com/culture/23997305/tiktok-palestine-israel-gaza-war
bdamomma
(63,919 posts)You're the threat to Democracy!!!
keep_left
(1,790 posts)And naturally, Trump just might be a silent partner in this scheme? I recall something about Trump's Secretary of the Treasury, Steven Mnuchin, having a plan to buy TikTok, along with other unnamed investors.
XorXor
(623 posts)Weren't they the one first pushing the anti-tik-tok stuff?
Celerity
(43,491 posts)XorXor
(623 posts)It's not about doing what he thinks is right, but rather just being opposition to anything does by others. Although, I guess it doesn't matter because that's what his base wants. It's not about governance. It's about "defeating" the other side.