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As some of you know, Im a college instructor. A friend of mine encountered something Ive seen recently as well, and Im curious to know if others have seen it as well.
My friend (at a different institution) received an email from a student enrolled in her class shortly before the midterm a couple of weeks back. The student asked where notes for the class could be accessed.
Theyre not online, my friend replied. Students are expected to take their own notes.
The student responded with anger and surprise. The problem? The student was unable to actually attend class. He assumed the notes would be available for download somewhere and now, halfway through the term and right before an exam, was shocked shocked! to learn this wasnt the case.
Even though its spelled out in the syllabus.
How am I supposed to pass the class? he asked incredulously. I have a scheduling conflict! I cant take notes on my own!
My friend suggested that this student ask to borrow another students notes. She even offered to help identify someone who might be able to provide them. But that, to this student, wasnt good enough he wanted the instructors own notes, which she is not willing to provide.
I had three or four students in the same situation during the pandemic. Students would often assume courses being taught online were also being recorded, and were disappointed to learn that mine werent. But this was in the context of an online course, and in all cases, the students reached out to me before classes started. They were reckless enough to register for a class they couldnt actually attend, but at least had the good sense to ask ahead of time and not wait until several weeks into the term.
This case was different. Its not an online class. The student simply assumed notes are available online and didnt ask in advance if that was the case.
I teach the same way. I expect students to take notes. I do this because theres plenty of research out there showing material is retained better if one writes it down. I have friends and colleagues who provide notes, and thats OK we all have different pedagogical philosophies. I also sometimes provide the text for some of my powerpoints if theres a lot of it, or if it covers a a particularly complex subject in which precise wording is important. I also provide all of the pictures I use in class. But overall, I really do think students learn better if they take their own notes.
The student in my friends class is better off than hed been in my class my friend uses a textbook for her class. I dont use textbooks*. So at least hes got that. And had he simply asked in advance if taking the course without attending lecture was an option, hed probably have registered for a different class that worked better with his schedule. But he made a bad assumption, and now hes struggling to adapt on the fly.
Have any of you who teach encountered similar assumptions on the part of students?
A couple of additional points:
First yes, I know students have busy schedules and often have great difficulty in arranging a class schedule that accommodates other commitments, including jobs. But thats why we have academic advisors whose job is to work with students to make sure they meet their goals. (Thats also why we have higher learning institutions that cater to students whose realities dont match the expectations of a traditional campus setting.) My point isnt that students should or shouldnt expect something its that they should ask before making assumptions.
Second as I said, I have friends who provide notes. In some contexts, it makes perfect sense. Its reasonable, for example, if theres so much text provided during class that even a professional stenographer would struggle to keep up. And I understand the rationale that its harder to listen when one is writing something down. So I dont dismiss providing notes as a blanket opinion. But in my experience, for the kinds of courses I teach, it makes more sense to have students take their own notes.
*Not only are textbooks overpriced, there arent any usable textbooks for my subjects. Theyre either out of date, poorly organized, or both. Theyd be a source of confusion rather than illumination.
CrispyQ
(36,518 posts)Maybe the student will learn from this that reading the syllabus is the first thing you do for any class. Also, instead of copping someone else's notes, which I think is lame unless it's a one-off request, maybe he could get someone to record the lecture & then listen to it himself?
Sympthsical
(9,119 posts)For both in-person and asynchronus online classes.
Not all professors, but most of mine will have modules posted that have the assignments and readings required, any videos, etc. etc. And in there will be lecture notes or accompanying materials in power point slides.
Are they as good as your own notes taken during class? No. Most of the time they lack detail. But they can at least be used as a study guide for the material and let you know what will likely be on exams and things. I don't know if this is a hybridization that was integrated because everyone became accustomed to it during the pandemic, but it's not too uncommon.
Of course, the onus is on the student to know what's up from early on. If I'm still unclear on something after the second week, I ask.
Relatedly, I have an online asynchronous course where we've been debating whether or not the professor is dead or on vacation. He literally copy and pasted the course from last semester (forgot to change the dates). And since all the assignments and most of the tests are auto-graded, the class is basically on auto-pilot. Anything he needs to hand grade (including major exams) has never been graded. It is now three months into the semester, and the man has not personally graded a single thing.
It's quite the course. I feel like I should teach college online. The job sounds amazing.
cab67
(3,007 posts)I've heard of professors who recycle old recorded lectures, but not grading exams for any length of time is a serious problem.
I've been known to procrastinate on grading. I would rather take an exam than grade a stack of them. But there's a difference between waiting a day before grading and waiting a week or more to do so.
Sympthsical
(9,119 posts)It's an elective course I'm taking for fun/interest (astronomy). I'm a self-teaching type and acing it, and it's my last semester at this school, so my attitude is very "Eh" about it. I also don't want to paint a target on my back. I've a 4.0 and don't particularly want a professor gunning for me for any reason, particularly in a course that is wholly optional.
Plus, who knows. Maybe something serious is going on in his life. I'm probably being overly charitable/forgiving/apathetic about the situation, but I've only one month to go here. I already received my degrees back in December. I'm just chilling for a semester of fun until the next phase of my education starts in fall.
cab67
(3,007 posts)Still, though - someone should say something. If the instructor is just being lazy, they should be replaced. If the instructor is going through a rough time, they should be helped. And if there's a chance the instructor might not submit final grades, that could be a problem for students who need the course to graduate.
Such reports can usually be made anonymously.
Not saying it should be you.
I have a philosophical issue with asking one student to record lectures for another.
In my eyes, a student's job is to participate in a class. Asking another student to record a class for you for an entire term would, in essence, be asking the other student to do the first student's job.
There are also quite a few professors who disallow recording or photography during class unless a student has an accommodation for a learning or neurological issue. I'm ok with recording (as long as a student clears it with me first), but not with photography.
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Total aside - my wife gave a talk at one of her professional meeting a while back, and as it was in the city where we lived, I attended. I understood about 5 percent of it, but I enjoy seeing her give talks.
Throughout the presentation, a lot of people in the audience were taking pictures of the slides.
Afterward, I expressed real shock to my wife about this. At my professional meetings, photography of the slides and posters is a serious no-no. Too many people, including hard-working students, have had their work scooped because, we suspect, some scumbag "borrowed" their work based on cell phone pictures taken during a talk. People get ejected from our meetings for taking pictures, unless the speaker and session moderators OK'd it in advance. And some people really just don't want their picture taken.
(I've taken a few pictures of my own students giving talks, but I always check with the moderators first. I've also photographed a couple of posters, again after asking the authors if it's OK. I'm known to be trustworthy, thankfully.)
My shock was met with equal shock. In my wife's field (which is very different from mine), it's evidently an accepted practice to photograph the slides during professional presentations. She couldn't understand why we wouldn't want everyone photographing the slides.
Sympthsical
(9,119 posts)I take my own notes always and feel like note-taking is a vital part of the learning/integrating/memorizing process. If I've spent the time taking detailed notes, I usually don't really have to study by the time the exam rolls around.
I think you and I have discussed this before. But yes, taking pictures of slides/blackboards/etc. is extremely common in classes nowadays. Almost all professors allow it, particularly in science-related classes where there are a lot of diagrams and things on the board or instructions for lab. Recording is a trickier proposition and less common. Usually it's to accommodate an unusual situation. And permission always needs to be requested. I remember a physiology professor allowing a video recording only once for a student who was either in hospital herself or with her mother. Some professors allow audio but not video. Although, with phones, students could covertly record a lecture fairly easily if they wanted.
Chakaconcarne
(2,462 posts)The students for which grades really matter will adapt quickly.
Part of that learning, IMO, is understanding the professor, how they grade and matching your output to their expectations.
That's what office hours are for.
cab67
(3,007 posts)The student in this case had a copy of the syllabus. He just hadn't read beyond the dates for the midterm and final.
He evidently skipped his other commitment long enough to grab the syllabus on the first day of class, but didn't stick around to hear my friend cover its salient parts - including the need to take one's own notes.
GregariousGroundhog
(7,526 posts)If someone can learn the content by reading a text book but not listening to the lecture or by listening to the lecture but not reading the text book, all the power to them. A professor who requires students to participate in multiple modes of learning (listening, reading, writing) maximizes the odds of subject retention across the entire student spectrum though.
As someone else mentioned in this thread, part of life is understanding other people's expectations and tailoring our actions towards them. It sounds like the student mentioned in the OP is learning that lesson the hard way. I would also argue that being able to identify keys points from information being delivered orally is still very much a useful life skill, even if not quite as important as in days past.
Also, I'm not a teacher but I am colledge educated and can still have an opinion.
cab67
(3,007 posts)According to my friend, who studies these sorts of things, there's actually very little published evidence to support the whole "different modes of learning" thing.
I'm not an expert on this, so I have no strong opinion.
Ms. Toad
(34,092 posts)If so, problem solved. Apply the policy.
You don't sign up for a class you can't actually attend, without making special arrangements ahead of time. If, and only if, the professor is willing to make such arrangements.
cab67
(3,007 posts)They're adults. They're responsible for showing up.
But I don't provide notes, and there's no textbook - so not attending class is foolish.
On the first day of classes, I show the students a breakdown of the negative comments about me on my evals and on ratemyprofessors . com. The number 1 complaint is that one has to actually attend class.
this is the breakdown I show to my students, based on 20+ years' worth of evaluations. The numbers are percentages from the negative comments. (They don't add up to 100 percent because some evals used multiple criticisms.)
must attend class (47.4 %)
course/exams difficult (25.0 %)
professor has poor sense of humor (10.5 percent)
professor is dirtbag, knave, asshole, douche, fuckwit, jerk, and/or annoying twit and parasite on society (7.9 %)
course is boring (5.3 %)
course is useless (2.6 %)
professor has unappealing appearance/odor/attitude (1.3 %)
aocommunalpunch
(4,244 posts)Ridiculous. Like you said, work with the advisor to get advised with hopefully good advice. Participate in class or take a different class. Unfortunate FAFO.
Coventina
(27,172 posts)I was automatically giving one class study guides, until I noticed some students immediately throwing them in the trash! (At least recycle, you clods!!!)
Basically, it comes down to: the more in to my career I get, the more I realize 90% of my students don't respect me, don't respect the material, just want to pass and move on. I teach to the other 10%