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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBloodbath redux
I've actually been away from the news most of today. I heard about the bloodbath comments last night, assumed the worst, then watched the video this morning and discovered that Trump was talking about the auto industry. I then wrote this post to point out that it doesn't matter, because his words exist in multiple contexts. I heard that Jen Psaki made a similar argument this morning.
I just checked back in to see the bloodbath discussion still raging, so here's why I don't think it's a mistake for our side to keep pushing this.
With the Biden campaign fully pushing the comments, the GOP is now on the defensive and yelling about how the mean old libs are taking poor Donald out of context. But by doing this, they're wasting valuable airtime drawing attention to the fact that Trump is a psycho who says crazy, violent stuff. It reminds me of the old Ronald Reagan quote, "If you're explaining, you're losing." I would add that if you're quibbling about context, you're also losing.
Well as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter. Republicans are all out there explaining that when Trump said, "If I dont get elected, its gonna be a bloodbath," he wasn't talking about, y'know, an actual bloodbath, he was talking about cars. Okay, fine. And this is the same guy who instigated a violent coup attempt, right? The guy who said General Milley should be shot? The guy who said shoplifters should be shot? He's talking about cars, right?
And now the conversation isn't about Biden's age, or some other garbage, it's about Donald Trump's frequent use of violent language.
This is what we want going forward. There's an organized push going on right now from Democrats to "reawaken" people to the true threat of Trump. Many, many people have tuned out of politics, which is why the "Biden is too old" story -- which is a super-easy thing for people who aren't paying much attention to latch on to -- gained traction, and why it's been reflected in polling.
But one of our best lines of attack this time around is to make sure that as many potential voters as possible remember exactly what kind of psycho Trump is, and why it would be a terrible idea to put him back in the White House. And every time he makes a statement like the "bloodbath" statement, we get an opportunity to do that. I'd rather see the media devoting hours to whether Trump meant an actual bloodbath or a metaphorical bloodbath, than devoting hours discussing Biden's age.
And Trump is going to keep doing this, and he's going to get worse, so hitting him on it now is merely a prelude. You can see from the Biden campaign's comments, and the President's jokes at the Girdiron Dinner, that they're trying to goad him into getting angry -- and it's working. Trump may be projecting a brave face as best he can at the moment, but with his financial situation in tatters, criminal trials coming up, the Republican Party in complete disarray, and constant provocations from the Biden campaign, he's hopefully going to be in complete shambles well before November.
And yes, Trump said a bunch of insane crap in 2016 and got away with it -- "grab 'em by the pussy," "blood coming out of her wherever," etc. -- but this is not 2016. In 2016 those comments were seen by many as just "Trump being Trump." "Locker room talk" -- remember that? And just enough people gave him the benefit of the doubt, because he might have been "out there," but they found him to be entertaining.
He's no longer entertaining. He's just a tired, angry old man ranting and raving about nonsense. He's using violent rhetoric, dehumanizing immigrants, and praising Hitler. He's making overt appeals to racists and neo-Nazis. He's not charming or boisterous or whatever any more, he's a mess.
This stuff is all going to seep back into people's consciousnesses as the year goes on. They need to be reminded of why they got tired of Trump in the first place, and the Biden campaign is going to be putting a lot of time and effort into doing just that. The "bloodbath" comment was the perfect opportunity to take a swing at him, and IMO forcing Republicans to go out and defend him on this is good politics.
SoFlaBro
(1,993 posts)ate fucking shit.
niyad
(113,817 posts)Think. Again.
(8,775 posts)brewens
(13,654 posts)what? He means violence by his supporters.
EarlG
(21,990 posts)Trump is constantly inserting violent rhetoric into his speeches and then claiming innocence when called out. But I'm suggesting that whether he meant it or not isn't the most important thing now -- what's important is that it becomes a big story and gets people talking about his crazy speeches.
The Biden campaign has recognized this and gone directly at Trump over the comments, context be damned, and I think that's the right move because it puts the GOP on the defensive, where we want them. For an example of how this might break through to people, after I posted the OP I scrolled down the Latest page a bit and caught this:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218786744
Trump did this to himself, and allowed the Biden campaign to capitalize on it. And I'm glad they did -- it shows that they're ready to fight going forward.
Ocelot II
(115,974 posts)and sounds resembling words come out, and those word-like sounds are just vague enough not to be actionable but are horrible and outrageous regardless. What his goblin-infested brain actually meant is irrelevant at this point (though we can bet krugerrands to kroner that he'd love to see another 1/6-type melee for his benefit). Just using the word "bloodbath," regardless of the apparent or assumed context, excites the cult and outrages everybody else. Since all he sees is the excitement of the cult, he'll keep using inflammatory language in that squishy way that isn't quite incitement ("Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?" ), but that reminds everybody who isn't in the cult that he's a dangerous lunatic.
Oppaloopa
(867 posts)Cha
(297,978 posts)Hekate
(91,003 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(145,829 posts)Looking at the context of TFG's comments does not help. TFG is advocating for violence
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
spanone
(135,923 posts)Cha
(297,978 posts)He's no longer entertaining. He's just a tired, angry old man ranting and raving about nonsense. He's using violent rhetoric, dehumanizing immigrants, and praising Hitler. He's making overt appeals to racists and neo-Nazis. He's not charming or boisterous or whatever any more, he's a mess.
--------------
I link up with siblings on Sundays - everyone I spoke with today mentioned the comments about immigrants not being human and the bloodbath. Two nephews also spoke about this.
sheshe2
(84,032 posts)No, he is much more than that.
He is a dangerous man, a cornered rabid animal, a threat to this country and the world. He is a psychopath as are his rabid followers.
The man is a clear and present danger to us all and needs to be locked in a padded cell for the rest of his miserable life.
Ocelot II
(115,974 posts)sheshe2
(84,032 posts)You are correct. Frightening, isn't it.
betsuni
(25,770 posts)"He ate fast and he ate a lot. Franziska Braun said she was always surprised to see how much he put away -- second helpings of everything, including the pudding he always had for dessert. ... Hitler's addiction was to sweets: he had a perpetual, ferocious craving for cakes, pastries, and biscuits. Friedelind Wagner ... remembered Hitler eating two pounds of pralines a day when he was visiting Bayreuth. While planning the invasion of Norway, his aide Heinz Linge wrote, he kept darting out of the conference room to gobble sweets in his study. Linge asked if he was hungry, but Hitler said no. 'For me, sweets are the best food for the nerves,' he replied. Even in the bunker, as the Russians approached and his own death loomed, he was stuffing himself with cake."
Laura Shapiro, "What She Ate"
Ocelot II
(115,974 posts)Trump allegedly uses Adderall, and with the help of "Dr." Ronny Jackson, his White House was awash with drugs.
SalviaBlue
(2,918 posts)I love your take on this!
Fiendish Thingy
(15,700 posts)ConstanceCee
(314 posts)He is also using near-constant profanity.
Roy Rolling
(6,943 posts)Trump is an act, hes not a real thing. He exists in the minds of his cult, he calls it brandingthey think hes a rich billionaire because he tells them so.
Over, and over, and over, and over,
How many fresh minds can he impress in 2023 saying hes a genius? Zero.
The deplorables cant multiply unchecked like they did in 2016, they are confined to Trump-only rallies and shrinking venues. Their kids dont want to be weirdos, too.
elleng
(131,348 posts)and IMO forcing Republicans to go out and defend him on this is good politics.'
RussBLib
(9,056 posts)I'm glad I'm on your team.
cachukis
(2,282 posts)HuskyOffset
(892 posts)Pinpricks . . . for a pin prick. Well, thats what I heard. Definitely dont spread this rumor.
cachukis
(2,282 posts)Politics aint beanbag and if theyre explaining they are losing. I hope we can keep up the offense. This is a really great strategy and the more they whine out of context we know its working !!! getem Joe and Dems !!!!!
AllaN01Bear
(18,725 posts)i sometimes need to just walk away from it all to get my insanity back.
llmart
(15,565 posts)We need to use everything we can to keep him off balance. It's time to put the "when they go low, we go high" meme to bed for now (sorry, Michelle). We're in a war to save our democracy and we have to do whatever it takes.
Besides, I don't care if he did mean it as just for the auto industry (he didn't), he loves to use violent rhetoric and that's just plain dictator style.
Great post and analysis and truly spot on regarding how we have to get him on the defensive. Narcissists hate that.
BumRushDaShow
(129,939 posts)Repeating his use of that vile term has now become a (D) talking point (which also emphasizes how it fits a consistent theme), and it has been embraced by all the way up the ladder to the top. And yes, it HAS taken the GOP "off message".
They do this to us ALL the time and turning the tables has been a joy to see.
When people here bemoan why Democrats "won't 'take off their gloves'" and "put on the brass knuckles", well they just did.
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)Aussie105
(5,484 posts)A dual level message, industrial 'blood' or human blood?
Any effective communicator would make it very clear what he meant with such a message, but not Trump - he does it on purpose.
There needs to be some interviewing of MAGAts to see how THEY interpret the message.
No point us just saying 'he was just waffling another incomprehensible word salad' if his followers mostly went home to clean their guns and count their bullets.
orthoclad
(2,910 posts)Learned in NYC real estate, no doubt.
limbicnuminousity
(1,407 posts)Sucks that it's so stressful.
Dear_Prudence
(409 posts)Perhaps we should rely upon a gifted pet psychic to let us all know the intended meaning of this candidate's barking. The need to debate Trump's intended meaning is grounds for his disqualification. His routine miscommunication, ambiguity, mistakes, name mix-ups (on purpose or not), sprayshot threats and insults, and nonsensical utterances confuse the domestic audience. Internationally, Trump's failure to communicate could lead to an unintentional international incident, or what Trump would call "World War 2".
Pathwalker
(6,600 posts)Response to EarlG (Original post)
Aussie105 This message was self-deleted by its author.
dchill
(38,606 posts)Septua
(2,266 posts)peggysue2
(10,849 posts)Because that's what democracy demands, the electorate, the people exercising their voice/vote.
While we still have it.
betsuni
(25,770 posts)if they want to change things they have to vote.
Hieronymus Phact
(370 posts)"You must be the change you want to see in the world."
-Gandhi
Liberal In Texas
(13,611 posts)Couldn't agree more.
peggysue2
(10,849 posts)We need to stop pussy-footing around. Deranged, demented, it doesn't matter.
God damn it, words matter. These words matter to our survival as a civilized society.
So yes, forget the context shit and go after this monster with everything we have. Drill down, then drill down again. We cannot allow this man to continue spewing violent, depraved language because it's a poison to the body politic.
The push back is essential. We must be louder than the liars, louder than those who would take us into the Darkness.
This is the season to scream the Truth against the Big Lie. This is the last frigging moment we'll likely get.
orthoclad
(2,910 posts)Person speaking:
"Going out to this restaurant will be a real treat for the family."
Dog hearing:
"- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -treat- - - - - - -".
Giving the Reich wing the benefit of our doubt over and over and over again, despite proven, real-world results, borders on the classic definition of insanity.
democrank
(11,112 posts)Hope every reporter asks our friends across the aisle what they think of Trumps latest Cult Talk.
Silver Gaia
(4,552 posts)Thank you, EarlG!
Goddessartist
(1,887 posts)Kick
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,829 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,360 posts)Trump will either drop dead or get so bad even his base will turn away from him and the republicans will turn to a candidate that is actually a human being.
CrispyQ
(36,557 posts)I'd take today, too, though.
There's no one else his base will coalesce around, which is why even repubs who privately hate him won't speak out against him. They can't win without the base. The Republican Party has courted the zealots & racists for decades & now they've lost control of their party. I forget which state it was but they had two republican conventions this year. Fuckin' A!!
58Sunliner
(4,431 posts)If we look at context, why would it be a bloodbath for the auto industry if he is not re-elected? That makes no sense at all. He wants a 100% tariff? Majority of cars sold in American are made/assembled here. If this election isnt won, Im not sure that youll ever have another election in this country. And more projection at the same rally. He often speaks the truth in a back hand way. If he is elected, kiss elections goodbye.
betsuni
(25,770 posts)(like that Al Gore said he invented the Internet), so Republicans running around screaming about imaginary context is deeply satisfying.
SoFlaBro
(1,993 posts)JohnnyRingo
(18,686 posts)Put it on blast and let them explain. Ask Mitt Romney.
SunSeeker
(51,794 posts)He explicitly said "it would be a bloodbath for the whole country" and that the auto industry issues "would be the least of it." So he was definitely talking about much more than the auto industry.
Video clip of the relevant portion of Trump's speech here:
https://x.com/krassenstein/status/1769182503107985645?s=20
4lbs
(6,867 posts)of ketchup after bankrupting the RNC and having all his NYC property taken away
to "pay" for his crimes and felonies.
Now, if the local paper will print it.