(Poll) Are you better off now than 4 years ago? pre-Covid

[Johnny2X2X]

I'm talking mostly financially. I spend a good deal of my posting here posting the data around incomes, inflation, employment, and other factors that go into the general pulic's well being. It occurs to me that some people are struggling, but others are doing better. I think this central question is always important going into an election. So in your own personal finances, or just general situation, doing better or doing worse? Were things better for you just before Covid, or now?

145 votes, 2 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes
	102 (70%)
	No
	22 (15%)
	Same
	18 (12%)
	Not sure
	3 (2%)
	2 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Polybius]

1. No

My stocks are 75% down, I'm making less money with the current job, and inflation sucks. One thing though: I don't blame Biden.

[Johnny2X2X]

8. Wow

Do you own individual stocks then? Because all the major stock indicies are at or near all time highs and up 20% or more since Biden took office.

[Polybius]

10. Individual

I hand picked them. The only one up is Revolve Group. Planet 13 Holdings has hurt me the most. .60 cents a share now. Used to be over $7.

[Johnny2X2X]

13. Sorry

Hope you have other investments and have diversified some to mitigate the downside.

[spooky3]

32. Can you consider putting future savings in an S&P index fund? Nt

[Ms. Toad]

42. Ouch!

I used to hand-pick mutual funds, but never individual stocks (aside from H&R Block which I received at a discount through an employee stock option). My mutual funds have consistently (over time, at least), outperformed the market.

I'm not good enough at predicting the future to trust my own picks, but I'm reasonable at picking people who are better than average at predicting the future. Both the mutual fund managers and, more recently, my money guy.

[Johonny]

11. A lot of retirement stock are tied to the bond market

And interest rates. The rapid drop to 0, a great cause of our inflation, was good for the bond market. However, the rapid rise in interest rates that was sure to follow, has been hard. Thus, a lot of bond related funds and Reits are way down the last 4 years. This is why diversity in your investing is so important. But as you reach retirement a lot of people move into "safer" interest bearing funds whose Achilles heel is rapid movement in rates.

[sinkingfeeling]

20. Mie is over 30%.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

41. I am sorry to hear that.

During the big downturn when COVID was at its height, my husband had our financial planner take a chunk of money out of the Market and move it to a safe Money Market account. What stocks and other investments we had still, survived and bounced back up in latter 2021. He then had more funds put back into Mutual Funds and things have been steady. Our IRAs are back up as the Dow Jones have reached record levels.

As far as food prices go, it is the Corporate farms and the crackdown of Immigrant Labor driving up food costs. The wildfires in Texas will surely drive up Beef prices. With inflation at 3.1%, Unemployment well under 4%, wages up, things have been steady. Having moved from Rochester to a Twin Cities suburb after selling our home, paying off loans, we find we come out a bit ahead though we now live in a Senior Living facility where we rent our apartment. Rents are not cheap, but the amenities are nice. We look at it as a good trade off.

My eldest Granddaughter, who lives down in Rochester, starts a new job with Mayo in a few weeks. Her computer and Customer Service skills she learned from her previous job over the last 8 years, will be a plus. A bit less money, but way better benefits. Many are retiring from Mayo in the Patient Support, Research, Nursing, and other areas. Also, Mayo announced a multi-Billion dollar expansion over the next decade. Housing, transportation and other infrastructure will be booming.

Making adjustments is a universal thing. Living with less is more. I am finding that out.

[brooklynite]

46. Our investments lost 10% in 2022, but regained everything in 2023.

That's with a balanced allocation of mutual funds and one stock (Apple)

[yardwork]

53. Your stocks are down that much?

Were you invested aggressively?

[spanone]

55. Stocks down 75%? You need a new broker.

[niyad]

2. Despite inflation, and all the horrors, I personally am doing much better

than four years ago, for which I am most profoundly grateful. Four years ago, we were just entering the covid nightmare, for one thing.

[Happy Hoosier]

3. Much better.

Inflation sucked, but overall, yes. I am much better situated.

[Johnny2X2X]

4. I voted yes

Our yearly merit increases for pay have been really nice, and I got a promotion at work that came with a significant raise. And we are getting a nice bonus yearly right now. My wife's small business is growing and doing better now than 4 or 5 years ago.

Wage growth has exceeded inflation since 2019, so I think that belies that more Americans are doing better now, but you never hear about it.

[RainCaster]

5. laid off 4 years ago, now making 2/3 my former $

Nobody's fault, but if there isn't a big blue wave this fall, I'm leaving the country.

[karynnj]

9. I hope your $ improve. Your answer had to be complicated

Unless the layoff was slightly more than a year ago or you knew a layoff was likely, you might have been doing better and not having a clue of what was to happen.

[redqueen]

6. Yes

I was fortunate that I got a decent raise and I'm now able to start saving to finally move out of this slum. I only wish all my neighbors were as lucky

[PatSeg]

7. Much better in most respects

For the first time in years, I actually have money in the bank, which means I am able to pay some unexpected medical and hospital bills and still have money left over. The stimulus checks I received made a world of difference for me. Sometimes all one needs is a small hand up to get out of paycheck-to-paycheck mode.

Yes, my grocery bills have gone up, but I am still better off than I was three years ago.

[Johnny2X2X]

17. Money in the bank

Last edited Tue Mar 5, 2024, 01:27 PM - Edit history (1)

The very definition of not living paycheck to paycheck.

I always find the psychology of economics interesting. Just the other month I was talking with family and the words came out of my mouth, "Well, I'm still living paycheck to paycheck." I said it, but it's completely not true, I have a few months bills in the bank.

There was a recent poll about living paycheck to paycheck, and the answer was 62% of households are. It got several threads here on DU. Seems high. Well, knowing that not all of those people are really living paycheck to paycheck, I did some Googling. And sure enough that same poll in 2019, before Covid, was 80%. So all those panic articles about 62% living hand to mouth when that is actually a significant improvement from 2019.

There's just so much negativity around the economy right now, it's costing Biden big time, when in fact a lot of people are doing better.

[PatSeg]

24. Those statistics are interesting

Recently I was in the hospital and I automatically panicked that I wouldn't be able to pay the many bills that would come my way after Medicare. Then I realized that I had more than enough to cover them. It certainly makes recovering a lot less stressful.

Yes, I think a whole lot of people are doing better, but apparently they don't realize it or perhaps they listen too much to the mainstream media and politicians.

I've spent so many years on the brink financially and now I realize what a difference it makes if a person has a reasonable cushion. I understand what people are talking about when they advocate a guaranteed minimum income. It doesn't have to be a lot, just enough to keep one out of constant panic mode.

[Johnny2X2X]

27. Great post

My life has run the rainbow too. Struggled mightily in my 20s, was almost homeless at one time. Made mistakes. I've seen first hand how predatory everything is for low income people. You get terrible credit card offers that you then have to use in an emergency. Sub prime auto loans come for you when you have a car emergency. Everything from groceries in poorer neighborhoods being more expensive, to renewal fees on you car being above what you can afford just makes things seem hopeless.

I don't take anything for granted now. And I always take the time to try to remember what too many people in this country are dealing with on a daily basis. What that does to your psyche, to feel hopeless all the time.

But I believe in my President and see that he has done more for the poor and for the working class than any President in my lifetime, and I see things have a chance to get better for everyone.

[PatSeg]

38. That brings back so memories

It is hard to convey to someone who hasn't been there what it is like living like that day after day and in my case I had children. The fear of being homeless was so oppressive and I came so close many times. It really does a number on your self esteem as you begin to believe you aren't worthy of more.

Of course, things have gotten better, but that cloud seems to always remain over my head. You never forget.

I was a huge supporter of Joe Biden long before he ran for president and when he won, it was like a dream come true. As a president, he is everything I hoped he would be and much, much more. It is such a thrill to come to DU and see so many people singing his praises on a daily basis. There was a time when it was only a small handful of us and most of us are still in touch with one another outside DU.

[Johnny2X2X]

12. Student loans

Another thing I am doing much better with is student loans. Joe Biden's new pay as you earn repayment option was absolutely life changing for me an millions of other borrowers, my monthly payments went down 60%.

I am out of debt save for mortgage and student loans. 401K is doing fantastic.

I do notice inflation, but I remind myself that I am making much more than before it started.

[Trashman272]

14. Much better

My stocks are up significantly, got the best union contract ratified over the next 5 years that I've seen in the 30 years with our company. The little increase in inflation hasn't hurt me any.

[ITAL]

15. About the same

My wife and are doing pretty well, basically how we were right before COVID hit so hard. Our investments are up (though not by too much given how much they fell off a couple of years ago) and we have a bit more money in the bank, but with inflation it probably means we're basically stationary. Can't complain!

[MenloParque]

16. Everyone I know is way better off now than before 2020. Higher income, better jobs. Heck my youngest is graduating

This year from San Jose State in CompSci. She already has a job offer from Google and is interviewing for paid internships as well. Let Red States laugh at California all they want…we have more jobs and public services here than they can shake their racist, homophobic, fake god loving sticks at.

[Johnny2X2X]

18. Same

My brother and sisters are doing well, 1 is blue collar, the other 2 more white collar. My best freinds are all doing better. Have some other friends struggling, but I don't think they could blame that on the economy.

And California is wonderful! Best friend lives in Paso Robles. Amazing and beautiful town. And what people don't get is that when cost of living is high, so are incomes. He and his wife are doing very well and own a pretty nice house.

[All Mixed Up]

19. Yes and no.

I make more than I did four years ago but it doesn't really feel like it at times. I was lucky that I refinanced my house at the end of 2021, which locked in a lower interest rate.

With that said, my job is dissolving and I'm being laid off if I can't find another job within my company (and who knows how long my company will actually be around).

So, while I'm financially doing better in terms of salary than four years ago, job security is much worse than four years ago so I ultimately voted no, I'm not doing better because that financial improvement means little if I lose my job.

[spooky3]

33. Hope you can find a good new one. Nt

[LeftinOH]

21. My retirement/401k is the highest it's ever been - right now; my salary

is the highest it's ever been - right now. Last year I finally bought a new car (after having the old one for 17 years). I was doing OK just before Covid, but I'm doing better now in most respects.

[beaglelover]

22. Yes, much better!

[Johnny2X2X]

23. I am genuinely shocked at these results

74% at the time of this post doing better. I really thought that maybe I was whistling into the wind posting the data that shows most Americans are doing better now than pre Covid. And I thought maybe I was just being crass to those who are struggling.

The negative stories get the headlines, and they even get the most threads here on DU. But the fact is, real wages are higher now than in 2019. That means that most people can afford more today than in 2019. Wage growth has been incredible and for the first time in generations, the working class are actually getting ahead.

None of this means we should lack compassion for those struggling and who need help. There are still too many people barely getting by or not getting by in this country. But Joe Biden's polciies are the answer IMO. Every time he speaks, every time his government adjusts some rule, or he signs a new law, it's aim is clearly to help regular people. And it appears to be working.

Thanks to everyone who participated.

Crime is at or near record lows too, but that rarely gets any attention either.

[limbicnuminousity]

28. Or

DU skews to an older crowd that is more likely to have invested in the stock market. The media does focus on the doom and neglects to mention there have been definite improvements. Still, the only national poll I've seen puts the split at around 60/40. Good, with room to improve.

[Johnny2X2X]

31. Was trying to only get the pulse of DU

Mainly because there just seems to be a massive amount of doom and gloom posts and threads here constantly where people post about how awful everything is economically right now. How inflation has made life unaffordable.

Was really just trying to get a feel if my experiences were in the minority on DU and that the data that supports my experiences for the general public in America was empty as far as most DUers were concerned.

The data point I seem to get the most pushback on is this:
https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-purchasing-power-of-american-households#:~:text=Real%20weekly%20earnings%20for%20the,in%202019%2C%20despite%20higher%20prices.

"Real weekly earnings for the median worker grew 1.7 percent between 2019 and 2023. This means that one week of pay for the median worker now buys more than a week of pay did in 2019, despite higher prices."

Some people can't accpet that this data includes all prices. And that this is a very real measure indicated on average people are doing better. Doesn't mean that I think there isn't more work to be done, just that I think that the incredible job Joe Biden has done with the econmy is largely being ignored.

[limbicnuminousity]

35. Fair enough

Countering the doom and gloom is worthwhile. From a stats view though, median =/= average. For the people who are doing well the economy sounds wonderful.

[Johnny2X2X]

39. More good data in the internals regarding low income workers

Throughout this era of robust wage growth, the biggest gains have been at the bottom of the pay scale. Even during the worst of inflation, low wage workers were seeing wage gains well in excess of inflation. When inlfation was 8 and 9%, low wage workers were seeing 10-12% wage growth. That's pretty remarkable in the US and not the usual. The floor has been effectively raised.

I think what you saw is a lot of entry level positions that were paying $12 and $13 an hour go to $17 and $18 an hour. Depending on the area, the new floor moved up significantly. People weren't willing to wash dishes for $12 an hour anymore at a restaurant when there was a warehouse job paying $17.50 an hour across town.

[lynintenn]

25. Doing better because of investments but

My son is trying to buy a house but interests rates are so high that would put his monthly payments out of reach.

[pfitz59]

26. I've been treading water for years

My accounts have remained balanced.

[MistakenLamb]

29. i have made more money, , saved more money and spent more on luxury expenses than the previous 4

Biden economy has been good for me

[Emile]

30. I have gained back my losses from Trump's

last two years he was in office. The way Trump handled the pandemic and his bullshit about enacting tariffs caused the stock market crash. Thank goodness for Biden leading our country out of the Trump economic crash.

[Johnny2X2X]

37. I think the media buys this myth of the pre Covid Trump economy

As if his "greatest economy in history" talk had any shred of credibility. Before Covid was even known, his jobs record was 167,000 jobs a month added, that's not good, that's no where close to Biden's jobs record. And in late 2019, wage growth finally started creeping a tenth of a point or two higher than inflation and he bragged about it endlessly. But by and large people did not get ahead at all in his 3 years before Covid. It was great for the rich, bad for the working class. Now we've seen almost a year where wage growth has been a full 1% or more above inflation, and people rarely even talk about it.

And that's not even getting into things like people having health care, which went way down under Trump as he tried to destroy Obamacare but is now back up thanks to Biden.

Trump inherited a growing economy from Obama with record low unemplyment, he largely kept it in neutral for 3 years and then his mismanagement of Covid left a giant smoldering hole in the ground for Joe Biden to deal with. The GPD growth we're seeing now dwarfs Trump's best outputs, and it's not built on the investor class, but on the working class. Dems are just better on the economy, have been for generations. And Biden is light years better for working people than Trump.

[spooky3]

34. Financially yes; health no, but it's not terrible. Nt

[Midnight Writer]

36. Anecdotally, I have been trying to hire people to remodel my home, with no luck.

Everyone in this area is "booked up" with so many projects they won't even come out and give me an estimate. Can't get a roof, can't get a bathroom or kitchen remodeler, can't even get an electrician out here to update my wiring. I take that as a sign that people have the money to hire these professionals, and that the trade professionals themselves are doing so well they have to turn down business.

Personally, I am much better off. Most of my savings are in index funds, and they are doing quite well.

[Vinca]

40. And plumbers. It seems they've gone extinct.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

43. Yes.

We sold our home in Rochester over a year ago. Paid off loans we had, did some additional investing, pre-paid our Funerals so our adult children did not have to.

We rent a nice 2 bedroom/2 Bath apartment in a Senior Living Facility in a Twin Cities suburb. For that rent, which is not cheap but doable, we have Wi-Fi, underground parking, Electric, Garbage, outside maintenance, inside maintenance included, a fitness center, movie theater, small resident library, Activities, and more. Where we live is located across the street from a big Shopping Mall, restaurants, Health Club, a County Library, Grocery stores, Costco, various strip malls, a city Park, light rail when it is completed, and more within walking distance. We are minutes from a Park & Ride we used last year for the Renaissance Festival, minutes from my daughter's house and the younger granddaughters, and so much more. It is a community here that has grown on me.

Trading home ownership and all the extras that are involved for more simple living has been good for us. We are not rich, but we are comfortable. My husband planned well for retirement. I keep plenty busy with my sewing and costume related commissions from clients all around the country.

[TexasBushwhacker]

44. No

I've been unemployed for 6 months. Job hunting when you're 67 really sucks. My IRA with ETFs is up, but my investment account with individual stocks is down.

And no, it's not Biden's fault. It's just the breaks.

[Ms. Toad]

48. I contemplated that.

I had planned to work until I was 72. The dean at the school where I was an assistant dean had other ideas. (He got slammed back to the classroom since he was doing such a crappy job, and decided to take out his anger on someone he could get rid of without any reason. I had a 6-month "whim of the dean contract." During his tenure I was the second person with cancer he terminated, and the second over 60. He only terminated 3 people . . .)

The reason for the target age of 72 was that I would receive the maximum retirement pay in a defined benefit plan. So I ran the numbers and it turns out that if I found another government job (at 65), I would be around 100 before I felt the benefit of those extra years of work (60% now v. 75% for 7 fewer years on the front end). So I chose not to look for another job. But until I decided it wasn't worth it, I was not looking forward to re-entering the job market.

Hope you find something!

[TexasBushwhacker]

50. I really need to work at least another year

I had some low or no income years when I cared for my mother and a period of disability so I don't have 35 high earning years. I had been back working full time since 2019, so I know I can do it. I want to do it! I'm bored!

[Ms. Toad]

54. I don't know what your aptitudes are -

But medical coding is an in-demand field, and it can be work from home. Computer coding is also a possibility. Both take some training, but the former requires a lot less than the latter.

If you have a local university, many are offering quick certificate programs to get you trained for a new career in high demand fields.

As for boredome (aside from not bringing $$ in), check out your local state university if you have them. Most allow seniors to audit classes for free. (I'm actually pursuing a degree, since I am a University retiree and get 2 classes a semester for free, for credit.) Might be a solution for the boredom - and you might make new connections that lead you to a new job, as well. And it's a lot of fun hanging around with the 18-25 set - although they haven't quite figured out what to make of me, yet.

[GreenWave]

45. Way the hell better...

I seem to love Zoom!
Cash keeps piling up, now in 6% CDs as I don't do stocks well. Yet still the stocks do ok by themselves as I do not know how to monkey with them. About every two months Home Improvement Project.
Still working as Zoom keeps me from debilitating earlier.
Naps are peaceful.
Birds are fed.
Stray cat is fed.
Lawn redone,

[Ms. Toad]

47. Own personal finances and general situation are two different things.

I retired in 2022, which cut my income by about 30%. If I was living purely on income I'd be worse off. Still breaking even, but worse off since I wouldn't be adding to savings. The savings has gone down (dramatically, since it is invested primairly in mutual fonds), then back up. Since I expected to mostly be able to live off of retirement, spouse's SS, and her small income stream from work, I haven't yet switched to less aggressive investment strategies, I still get the benefit of the aggressive swings and I'm about back where I started.

But I retired in 2022, so my quality of life has dramaticaly increased. I miss teaching and working with students - I was mostly doing that 80-100 hours a week and loved every minute of it. But dealing with the administration and the faculty, and the tendency to both cut my staff and increase my workload was extremely stressful, and only getting worse. I'm still working with a few students in a different capacity, and I miss working with them. But I'm much more emotionally healthy without the stress associated with the supposed grown-ups. And I'm taking classes, pursuing a BFA in photography. I'm acting twice a year, diving once or twice a year, growing a lot of my summer food, and generally doing all of the things I have set aside for years when work literally occupied nearly every waking moment.

So - given that I've scrimped and saved (and been lucky enough to be in a position to do that) I'm better off because I have enough money to manage comfortably - and enjoy my greatly improved quality of life. But, given that food price increases and loss in income, my money situaiton is slightly worse.

[Sympthsical]

49. Yes and no. We got "Got mine!" better

Let me explain. If you took our general situation, wages vs. expenses, we'd be a fair bit worse. 5% increase in income since 2019, and expenses have just been spiraling in places. Not just groceries. Things like insurance. Our home owner's insurance just went "WTF?!" in recent years. Auto. Health, etc. Utilities are flyin upwards. Gotta love that PG&E. Lot of things sapped at our base income.

However! How-ev-er. We're not struggling. We're towards the higher end of middle class? I don't know where we land, because the numbers are a lot different in the Bay Area of California. But we've been fairly comfortable DINKS.

On paper, there are some things. Our home value increased 30% since 2019. Great for us! Not for anyone else, but great for us! Because we actually are home owners. And more or less fuck you if you didn't buy pre-pandemic. We're also insulated from the PG&E shitshow. All our friends are complaining - can't wait until the summer to watch this one - but we're fine. Why? Because we threw $20,000 at solar. Because we had $20,000 to throw at solar. We're about to be a lot better, because I went back to school and will make significantly more once I'm done. That's not an economy thing, though. That's a personal initiative thing. I'm bustin my ass to do this.

Because we already had money, we're insulated from a lot of the problems. But if it was a straight up income vs. costs, no we'd not be doing better. The increase in various costs would be awful if our income was the sole metric.

And I think DU is showing this a bit. Much older demographic. I've been calling it "Got mine!" better.

It's a K-shape. If you're good, there are things like stocks and property that keep you good. If you're paycheck to paycheck, cost increases in various areas can eat you away.

My friends who were already good are still good. My friends who were dog paddling to make it are dog paddling just a little bit harder these days.

[Johnny2X2X]

56. Not sure on the K shaped

In fact, I think the data shows the income gains at the bottom outpaced the income gains at the top in terms of %. The working poor gained the most.

But I do think there is a divide that is growing between people who own and people who rent their homes. I bought 7 years ago, and I would have a tough time affording rent in my neighborhood right now if I had to rent a home.

[happybird]

51. I'm in a much worse spot

but it’s due to my own stupidity and bad decisions, not the economy.

Where I was working actually benefited from COVID. We switched to all carryout and because of that reduced staff drastically. Not good for people wanting server jobs, but good for my boss and the handful of us cooks. Business was still booming when I left there a few months ago.

I will say grocery prices are really hurting me now. Just got home from the food bank and feeling very grateful for their help.

[yardwork]

52. I'm older and fatter. Oh! You meant am I better off under Biden?

Yes. I sleep better now.

[Tree-Hugger]

57. Financially much, much worse

My husband is making the same amount was he was years ago when we were originally able to get OFF food stamps, carry our own health insurance (including dental) and pay for all of our basic needs, car payments, car maintenance , and fun stuff like small basic vacations.

Now? We are are way way worse. We live in the same apartment, but rent skyrocketed, especially with COVID. We are back on food stamps and Medicaid and do not have dental care access (Medicaid dental is very limited here, especially for adults). Our food stamps were cut this year and we cannot afford enough groceries for our family ... and that includes making food pantry visits. My car is way out of inspection and in need of repairs. I've been driving with a stuck window (regulator is broken) for a year now, which is just amazing in the rain and freezing cold. My vent won't turn off. I can't afford oil changes as those are double the price as they were about 4 years ago. My kids know actual hunger. Utilities are too much. We can't afford basics like household supplies and clothing. I have a new job/career and I can't afford clothes for it or lunch to pack each day and I deal with hunger headaches because of it. My new job involves a lot of driving, which is hard because of the car's issues and gas prices. Kitty care is hard as well. My credit is the lowest it has ever been.

It's worse in other ways....both of my parents died since 2020 and my brother wants me dead and has committed to making sure I never feel safe. My CPTSD that I have had for a long time is way worse and was out of control for 2020 - 2023. Other mental illness worsened as well

That said, I have gotten into therapy. I made the move to get certified for a position in the mental health field. I started a new job in my career field just recently. I am starting to better manage CPTSD symptoms. I am still optimistic that someday it will get better. Oh, and my student loans were recently wiped! Thanks, Joe!!

Unlike many, I do not blame Joe Biden. I blame the GOP for doing everything to keep corporations in power and for voting against people. They are the ones that bolster the corporate greed that allows food prices and rent prices to rise out of control. They are the ones who cut SNAP and Medicaid and are happy to let kids starve.

[Johnny2X2X]

59. Very sorry for your situation

You sound like you're going through a lot, but really doing the absolute best you can under the circumstances. I wish you the best and would gladly donate to a Gofundme if you start one. You sound like you're a very strong person considering everything you wrote that you're dealing with, don't forget that.

[GenThePerservering]

58. Chugging along

My Zoomer and young Millennial nieces and nephews are doing well, too. The one who took a double major in English Lit and History got snapped up right away in the job market and is doing extremely well because, guess what, she's literate and can think, rather than just being trained.

[Ping Tung]

60. I turned 80 last Sunday.

"You shouldn't worry about old age...it doesn't last long." Anonymous

Having to endure 4 years of a sociopathic nincompoop of a president made me appreciate my youth.