I'm kind of shocked at how anti-Christian I've become.

[Coventina]

Yesterday, I was grocery shopping and in need of honey.

(I'm vegetarian, not vegan).

I picked up a bottle of stuff that had the best deal. I noticed a scripture on the front of the bottle.
Suspicious, I turned to the back, and the head of the company had a quote that said something like, "I praise God that I am able to provide for you and your family."

I put it back on the shelf, and bought the secular honey instead.

Anybody that needs to preach on their product is probably a raging Christofascist, I believe.

[Upthevibe]

1. I would have done the same thing.

I can't support so-called "Christians" in their present state....

[MurrayDelph]

46. It's part of why i don't go to

Chick-fil-A or In-n-Out.

Although it's a benefit that I prefer their competitors' products without taking into account the extra side of sanctimony.

[grumpyduck]

81. I don't know about anywhere else, but

around here the In-n-Outs should be called In-wait-half-an-hour-Outs. Which is why I don't go there.

I didn't know they were into the Christian thing too.

[MurrayDelph]

96. They're more subtle

Their beverage cups are printed with a verse number on the bottom inside edge.

[OMGWTF]

87. Also too, fk Hobby Lobby.

[Rebl2]

160. Haven't been

there in years.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

169. I do art

But will never step foot in a hobby lobby and buy something. Crazy republican white nationalist scum run that company.

However I will go in to rearrange letters and signs in displays/ shelves to say stuff like trump sucks,Hail Satan or gop=lies to amuse myself.

[COL Mustard]

173. Many of these so-called "Christians" are the antithesis of what He would have said (The Father or The Son).

But I guess these are all too "woke" for the "faithful".


Hebrews 13:2 ESV /
Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.


Romans 15: 7 ESV /
Therefore welcome one another as Christ has welcomed you, for the glory of God.

Leviticus 19:33-34 ESV
“When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

Romans 13:10 ESV /
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Deuteronomy 10:19 ESV /
Love the sojourner, therefore, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.

[True Blue American]

205. Money grubbers

Making money off their religion. To have faith I do not need to go to. Church!

[melm00se]

206. The phrase of the day

"Cafeteria Christians"

[Ocelot II]

2. I don't want to see religious proselytizing on my food

or other business transactions. Don’t try to sell me your religion along with your product or service.

[bdamomma]

3. oh my

are we in Gilead???? That's really weird. This is not going too end well.

I was even looking at this site to give a donation.

https://secure.ffrf.org/np/clients/ffrf/donation.jsp

Too much religion makes people stupid.

[Lunabell]

4. I am anti-religion in general.

All of them. They all place themselves and their beliefs before anything or anybody else. They are the only ones "saved." They are "chosen" by their imaginary sky daddy and the rest of us poor suckers are damned to eternal torture by another imaginary entity.

It's a ridiculous concept, but if people want to chose that for themselves, they can just go for it. Just don't expect me to follow your dumbassed rules.

Believe in the tooth fairy, for all I care. But, when I lose a tooth, it's going in the garbage, not under my pillow.

[cilla4progress]

20. What?!

No tooth fairy??!!

[lastlib]

70. "It would be almost unbelievable, if history did not record....

....the tragic fact, that men have gone to war and cut each other's throats because they could not agree as to what was to become of them after their throats were cut."
--Walter Parker Stacy

(love this quote--it really shows the depravity of religious belief.)

[Blue Idaho]

213. I am spiritual not religious

Especially when it comes to fundamentalist Christian intolerance. Love is my anchor

[ALBliberal]

5. I'm still a Christian but organized churches and

such? Just can’t do that any more. And this overtly advertising of “faith” just nauseating.

It’s akin to the overt advertising of the flag.

Where’s the respect? Where’s respect for others’ belief or non belief?

Anyway. Just my thoughts.

[Aussie105]

119. I'm religious.

But my religion has no name. It is a private thing, and doesn't need a name.

One person's private beliefs are ok by me.

Put two people like that together and watch them argue their beliefs.

Put a bunch of people together in one purpose built building - church, temple, etc - and you have a cult demanding conformity.

[Shermann]

131. Imagine if only one guy believed in Christianity

He'd immediately be written off as being certifiably insane, even if he presented all the same "evidence".

Two billion people believing it doesn't make it any more plausible, that is just a slow-moving deeply entrenched ad populum fallacy.

TRUTH BOMB!

[Sky Jewels]

216. "Okay, here's the deal...

...a cruel invisible sky wizard impregnated a young virgin girl and cucked her human guy. The ensuing baby turned out to be a carpenter with magical powers. Romans killed him and put him in a cave, but after a few days he jumped out and yelled: "Surprise! I ain't dead yet, mofos!" Even though he's not dead, Magical Guy is in Heaven with his dad (and M.G. is also his own dad as well as a ghost, see?). Aaaaaany day now, this combo sky wizard/ghost/magical carpenter will return to Earth and suck believers into the sky... Hey, why are you restricting the use of my arms and putting this white jacket on me?!"

[The Unmitigated Gall]

6. That ol' time secular honey! nt

[Marcus IM]

7. For me, it's the front running prosperity touting christians.

I've participated with many charity relief organizations, primarily dental relief in the Latin Americas.
Many of the participants are christians who don't just talk the talk, but, they walk the walk w/o sermons.

I have zero respect for the proselytizers of trickle-down prosperity jeezuz.

[OMGWTF]

92. And the End-Timers who love to see war in the ME because it means Jeebus is coming back.

[calimary]

8. I'm totally with you on that!

Why some people have to shove their religion in everybody’s faces is beyond me.

If you’re a Christian, fine. I’m glad it works for you. But leave me alone about it, and stop the attempted force-feeding!

[Hugin]

9. People are sometimes taken aback...

To find out that I am fairly spiritual. Not, religious mind you.

My belief is simple. I’ve found that the higher powers, whatever they may be, have put everything here that we need to be happy.

I would have the same reaction to the preachy honey you did.

[Jirel]

10. They make it so easy.

No worries. They’re showing their true colors, and it’s a natural reaction. I feel bad for the very few churches still trying to do some good out there.

[whathehell]

123. Who is "they"? You mean Right Wing crackpots?

Given that those are a MINORITY of Christians in this country, it would be helpful if you specified. Most Christians are Mainstream..I can assure you that your local Lutheran, Catholic and Presbyterian churches are NOT pasting messages on honey jars.

[Mariana]

136. The majority of Christian voters cast their ballots for Trump.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/08/30/most-white-americans-who-regularly-attend-worship-services-voted-for-trump-in-2020/

[DemocraticPatriot]

163. "The majority of Christian voters cast their ballots for Trump" because of abortion, no doubt...

Well, they got about half of what they wanted--- now they're coming for the other half...
while desperately trying to pretend that they AREN'T
(except for the extremists, who are doubling down on it).

[OAITW r.2.0]

230. 8 years of HS/College Jesuit education. One of the great bodies of educators in this world.

My religious/education taught me to say "Fuck Donald Trump".

[Mariana]

240. Congratulatons for being among the minority.

[whathehell]

234. Could that because a majority of Americans

are Christian?.. just a thought.

Again, all 'Christians' are not the same and the difference in the number of those voting for Trump and those voting against him differs sharply by denomination: As per your chart, the only denomination voting in a large majority for Trump were Evangelicals.
In 2016, 74 percent of Evangelicals were Trump voters, compared to only 57 percent of non Evangelical Protestants and 52 percent of Roman Catholics. The contrast is even sharper in the 2020 election which shows only Evangelicals voting in large majorities for Trump, while the other two groups either stay the same, as in the case of non-Evangelical Protestants, or decreased to a statistical tie of 49% Biden to 50% Trump among Catholics.








.

[Mariana]

239. You said the right wing crackpots are the minority of Christians.

That just isn't true of Christians in the US.

Again, all 'Christians' are not the same

You would have a point if anyone ever said that all Christians supported Trump, but no one has said that,

[whathehell]

241. Yes, and that's a true statement

and let's not be disingenuous..Without distinguishing as to denomination, a general call out of 'Christians' amounts to mass accusation.

[soldierant]

178. True - but some of the Catolic Bishops are peddling

so much white nationalism and misgyny, I don't know how the Pope can tolerate it - he certainly knows better. And I'm a Catholic, though my practice these days (and all the years since I was diagnosed with allergies - to stuff founf in churches ) has been private.

Faithful America keeps my updated on the Bishops and others who are preaching death - often with petitions I can sign.

[whathehell]

184. Seriously?..If so, I'd guess the operative word

to be "some", as in 'very few'.
My perception, and that of others I know, is that the 'White Nationalism' crap, is almost exclusively Right Wing Protestant and/or Evangelical. Hispanic Christians are generally Catholic, so I doubt they'd be supporting 'White Nationalism' in great numbers.

[soldierant]

227. Likely correct. But like most fascists, they are very loud.

But yes, when I'm signing petitions corcerning individual names, that's probably a good sign.

But don't forget, in the 1930's there was Father Coughlin. And he reached a lot of people on the radio.

The number and diversity of seriously good Catholic priests and bishops I have known also makes me resent the rehegades more.

[whathehell]

232. Not loud enough for me to hear..

Can you name any? What are they saying?

I ask because I know a lot of Catholics, almost all Democrats, and I've heard nothing of this.

Father Coughlin was on the air 90
years ago. He's hardly relevant now.

[Dorian Gray]

233. I'm Catholic, this thread is giving me heartburn, but also

there is a virulent strain of anti-democratic white supremacy in the Catholic Church supported by some American Bishops. The worst are Bishop Strickland, Cardinal Raymond Burke, Archbishop Broglio (who runs the USCCB). The US Conference of Catholic Bishops tends to run more conservative.

The former Apostolic Nuncio stationed in DC, Bishop Vigano, also is a conspiratorial right wing nut.

EWTN is definitely more right leaning with people propping up problematic content.

And people like Steve. Bannon have been working to create conservative "populist" centers in Roman Catholicism.

So, we aren't immune from the ugliness.

But I am fighting it from within rather than reject it.

[soldierant]

235. Thank you.

You saved me a lot of time. I would like to add the Archbishop pf San Francisco, tha aptly named Salvatore Cordileone, the one who refused Nancy Pelosi communion. That was all over the papers. I'm not sure how anyone missed it.

And of course there was Father Frank Pavone, until he got defrocked. I used to get mail from him which sometimes I would answer, tough it certainly did no good.

[StarryNite]

11. I would have done the same thing too.

[Jerry2144]

12. Most religions are filled with good stories that can be used

Like the old fables. But they’re still fictional stories. Just like Lord Of the Rings is a good story about the importance of friendship and courage. It still doesn’t make the book true or Tolkien a god

[cilla4progress]

26. Wow - exactly my thinking!

Shakespeare
Aesop
Koran
Indigenous origin story

All of the same order, to me.

[Omnipresent]

62. I worry about our prehistoric ancestors...

Those cavemen got no heads up, that they needed a mesiah.
Now some of them have been burning in Hell for millions of years!

[Coventina]

74. For some reason, modern Christianity teaches little about the Harrowing of Hell

Which is included in basic doctrines of Christianity.

The teaching is that after Jesus died on the cross, and before he was resurrected, he went into hell and rescued all the just folks that never received teaching or had a chance to get saved. It's called "the Harrowing of Hell" and used to be frequently depicted in Christian art.

So, Christianity had those nice Neanderthals covered, but modern Christianity neglects to talk about this for some reason.

[Omnipresent]

80. I'm glad he was able to rescue those cavemen then.

You know the Devil could thwart Gods will, by simply not allowing anymore sinners, to be sent his way.
But what do i know, about pissing off God.

[Jerry2144]

94. But who will save the modern Neanderthals who took over

The Repugnant Republican Party?

[Omnipresent]

105. I just assumed Republican Jesus would.

[PTL_Mancuso]

208. Well, Son of a Gun! I had no idea!

But, luckily Wikipedia did! [link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_Hell|

Now, we can stop worrying about the long-suffering Stone Age folks and others who weren't near enough to be brought into the tent of Salvation, who had been previously damned (or something). Thanks for the reference!

A snippet from a much longer entry:

In Christian theology, the Harrowing of Hell (Latin: Descensus Christi ad Inferos, "the descent of Christ into Hell" or Hades) is an Old English and Middle English term referring to the period of time between the Crucifixion of Jesus and his resurrection. In triumphant descent, Christ brought salvation to the souls held captive there since the beginning of the world.[1][a]

Christ's descent into the world of the dead is referred to in the Apostles' Creed and the Athanasian Creed (Quicumque vult), which state that he "descended into the underworld" (descendit ad inferos), although neither mention that he liberated the dead. His descent to the underworld is alluded to in the New Testament in 1 Peter 4:6, which states that the "good tidings were proclaimed to the dead".[2] The Catechism of the Catholic Church notes Ephesians 4 , which states that "[Christ] descended into the lower parts of the earth", as also supporting this interpretation.[3] These passages in the New Testament have given rise to differing interpretations.[4] The Harrowing of Hell is commemorated in the liturgical calendar on Holy Saturday.[5]

[Coventina]

221. You are very welcome!

I'll state again that I find it very puzzling that modern Christians neglect this teaching.
I mean, I remember being about 5 and feeling it was really hard luck for those born BC and people of other lands and cultures who had no idea.

Of course, I have many more problems with Christianity than just that, but it was a big one in my childhood!

[GoneOffShore]

91. Add the works of Terry Pratchett for moral fables.

[ArkansasDemocrat1]

220. HELLO

[John Shaft]

217. Stories about hateful deities killing everything from first born sons

to everybody. Yeah, love that good old time religion.

[bucolic_frolic]

13. I'm drifting Druid and Kahuna

but i still do Christmas.

[cilla4progress]

27. Zackly

Humanist pagan here

[atreides1]

40. I am Pagan

I do Christmas...Easter with my wife's family.

[GoneOffShore]

93. Lapsed Unitarian, raised Presbyterian, and doing Christmas and Solstice.

Oh, and eating the chocolate bunny ears.

[Dem2theMax]

124. Eating the chocolate bunny ears!

I'm in!

[frogstar0]

14. I suspect you are anti xchristian rather than anti christian

I call the holy rollers, christian nationalists etc xchristians as they really have nothing to do with the real teaching of Jesus. Posting scripture on their label is easy, doing in to others as yourself not so much.

[Lunabell]

25. The Carters are a fine example of Christians who walk the walk.

I grew up in a Christian home and once thought of myself as born again. But, once the "moral majority" came along and started preaching hate, my belief system changed dramatically.

I like the United Church of Christ beliefs. They are open and accepting of not only other organized religions, but atheists, wicans and many other beliefs. I wish more churches were like them.

[cilla4progress]

30. The religion I've been most closely associated with in my adult life

is Unitarian Universalist.

They actually are the only mainstream / organized Eurocentric religion with a chapter for Pagans!

[Lunabell]

32. That's another good one.

[barbtries]

54. this is the only one i've considered attending

in response to my desire for community. I was in a meeting with a person from this organization and was assured that atheists are welcome, so there was that. Haven't done it yet. Not really a joiner, plus COVID has made me quite the hermit.

I think the only thing religion does well is ritual. I found myself crying at my son's Bar Mitzvah in spite of not believing otherwise in gawd or the origin myth or any of that. Was overwhelmed by pride and love and the solemnity and how ancient the ritual is.

mind you i cry at every little christmas program, graduation, you name it.

[3catwoman3]

114. Atheists are indeed welcome in UU congregations.

I participate with a very small UU congregation that is currently lay led.

The gentleman who was the minister when I first started going there in 2011 served that congregation for 25 years. He was an atheist.

[JanMichael]

229. I am not certain how an Atheist can give a sermon.

Or call themselves and act towards others as a minister.

I am a lower case "a" atheist.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

170. I am a Satanist

Satanism is Atheistic and does not believe in Satan or god.

However ritual is used for catharsis and community connection and fun.

The Satanic Temple is a secular anti religion religion.

They are politically active trying to preserve roe vs wade and other things like lgbt rights and separation of church and state.

https://thesatanictemple.com/

[DBoon]

15. I had a potential contractor send me a "have a blessed weekend" email

Someone else got the work

[prodigitalson]

60. that is the liberal version of getting mad about 'happy holidays'

taking offense at someone wishing me a blessed or happy anything seems misplaced

[slightlv]

155. I beg to differ a bit...

To me, notes like that are calling cards of those who'd do nothing but proselytize you to death if you give them an inch. In addition, I see the harm they mean to do my country and yes... it does cause an automatic reaction from me. Perhaps because I once saw people of MY religion thrown in jail for doing nothing more than a worship service in their own apartment. And I realize we're only a few steps from that happening all over again. It's not a "liberal version" when you actually have seen the persecution and felt the violence yourself. At that point, it's a calling card of what's to come.

Meanwhile, I'll take all the happy holidays and Merry Xmas's they want to throw out as rote script at the checkout counter, and give them back a "Hearty Solstice!"

I just hate having things crammed at me, unknowing and uncaring whether or not I believe in anything they believe in.

[Mz Pip]

16. I have wonder liberal Christian friends

Never do they try to convert me or quote random Bible verses to make a point.

It’s the Christian Nationalists I have a problem with. They are so convinced their god wants exactly the same things they do. That seems to be the belief of just about any radical fundamentalist religion.

[Mariana]

140. That's nice, but your friends are the minority of Christians in the US.

The majority of Christian voters cast their ballots for Trump.

[cilla4progress]

17. I don't

disagree!

It is a shame and I can relate to having a suspicion about outward declarations of xtianity and belief in gawd!

"Don't ask don't tell" is my presecription!

[unblock]

18. i don't know why it's even considered a single religion

those who seek to follow jesus's advice and those who seek to use his name to justify contravening all his advice are worlds apart.

i'm a jew and near as i can figure, i'm more of a christian than these right-wing *ssholes will ever be.

[Arazi]

19. Welcome to the club

I used to be indifferent about it but the Christian Nationalists, Project 2025, Seven Mountains shit has tipped me over into hardcore anti-Christian.

I used to laugh at the “war on Christmas” nonsense. No more. I now fully recognize that was just a gateway for escalating confrontational Christianity (sic) that will seriously harm people I love

[Scrivener7]

23. I'm thinking of making a "Keep Yule in Yuletide" bumper sticker.

[Celerity]

55. Banksy nailed it 20 years ago

https://www.bukowskis.com/sv/auctions/619/332-banksy-christ-with-shopping-bags

https://hexagongallery.com/catalog/artist/banksy/christ-with-shopping-bags/

Banksy’s Christ with Shopping Bags was produced in 2004 as a limited edition screen print of 82 signed pieces. Although it is a highly perceptive commentary-style artwork, it has never been reproduced outside of commissioned paintings, and therefore remains a rare and iconic Banksy work on paper. In the artwork Christ With Shopping Bags, Christ is being crucified, and his pain is not lessened by the weight of his shopping bags.

Christ with Shopping Bags is a satire on values, perception and the transformation of the Christmas holiday. Up until the 20th century, Christmas observed the birth of Jesus Christ, the cornerstone figure for the religion. Apart from a special sermon and dinner ritual, Christmas was a day of rest and reflection and to not be preoccupied with the material things in life. In modern times, Christmas has become symbolic of rampant consumerism. Ostentatious gifts and revelry are highly valued during this holiday, even at the expense of debt and gluttony. Christ with Shopping Bags is as awkward of an assemblage as the blatant clash of ideals in Christmases past and present. All parts of the image appear to be melting, reminding us that both material goods and the joy that is derived from them do not last.

[Scrivener7]

58. Whoa. That hits in a strength-y way, doesn't it, now?

[Coventina]

75. Must. Resist. Nail. Joke.

[Autumn]

181. Yep, Banksy nailed that one. God I miss Will.

[303squadron]

21. Its hard to like Christians when they think I'm in league with the devil

[whathehell]

88. Newsflash: Right Wing "Christians" are a MINORITY

not only in America, but around the world. Evangelicals make up only a third of Christians in the US. The rest would laugh at your subject line's contention.

Most here know this, but also know that the absurdities falsely, (if routinely) attributed to "Christians", fit the narrative of many here. Conflating the billions around the world who identify as Christian with a small group of American fanatics bespeaks both ignorance and bigotry.

[hatrack]

97. They sure as shit aren't a minority where I live . . .

Nor in most of the surrounding states.

[whathehell]

109. Then maybe it's your area that's the problem.

Most Christians in the US are Mainstream, and you can confirm that with research.
.

[Mariana]

142. They aren't a minority in the US. Most of them voted for Trump.

[303squadron]

147. Call me prejudiced then

I believe Christianity is one of the great sources of evil in the world. To paraphrase Bertrand Russell, "If Christianity has made folks better people I have not observed it." The more one reads history, the more one is turned off by all religions but Christianity has a lot of evil to be responsible for: The Crusades, European Religious wars, the persecution of the Cathars, The Spanish Inquisition, the French Inquisition, the Portuguese Inquisition, the French Inquisition, the German Inquisition,and not to be outdone, let's ship that shit overseas for the Columbian Inquisition, pogroms against the Jews, the fact that the 1939 census in Germany showing a population of 95% Christian, the Irish "Troubles," the innocent Muslim men women and children in shallow graves in the Balkans at the hands of the Christian armies, the rape and abuse of children by ministers and priets.....

And I'm just getting warmed up.

So yeah, when I point this out to Christians, the usual response has been, "Satan, get thee away from me."

[Scrivener7]

22. I just wish they would stop trying to shove it down our throats. And uteruses.

[Jerry2144]

95. Religion is like a penis

It’s ok to have one. It’s great to be proud of having one. But don’t go flashing it out in public or shoving it down other people’s throats without consent

[Scrivener7]

100. Whoa. That's awesome.

[Jerry2144]

102. And I forgot to add

“Don’t expose it to children under 18”

[Scrivener7]

122. .

[summer_in_TX]

204. MLK never hesitated to ground his activism in his Christian faith.

We are a nation the better for it too.

Yet in all the writings of his that I've read, he did not try to convert others to Christianity. That would have detracted from his message.

I can't imagine though that he didn't offer powerful sermons about Jesus's teachings to his congregants and very likely had some come to faith during his time in his church's pulpit.

MLK's message in the public square was a powerful one for me. I was very much anti-religious and anti-Christian at the time, and would remain so for another 20-odd years. But I quite resonated with MLK's argument that oppression was bad for the soul of the oppressor and therefore the Civil Rights Movement was there to set white people free as much as to set blacks free.

[Dear_Prudence]

219. The Black Church

The PBS documentary series on The Black Church was very informative to me. I came away viewing religion as a tool, one that can be use to humanize people or one to dehumanize. With a hammer and Christian faith, Jimmy Carter build homes; others use those same tools with murderous intent. I want to include the builders in our camp. But like so many, I flinch when I am confronted with a hand weilding a hammer or, as with TRump, an upside down Bible. I recommend the PBS documentary for a thoughtful review of what faith can heal and what it can destroy right here in America.

[summer_in_TX]

222. "viewing religion as a tool, one that can be used to humanize people or one to dehumanize."

This is what I came to understand. I had parents who both were raised Methodist, but both left the church behind as young adults. They raised us anti-church, especially anti-Christian church. I shared that prejudice for many years. My stereotypes were all the negatives, that church people were narrow-minded, judgmental, hypocritical, uptight, not especially bright, sexually repressed, manipulative, always trying to convert people, spiritually arrogant, Republican-leaning, joyless, unloving, at times even murderous.

But I was ignorant of the various amazing acts that benefited the world that were outgrowth's of their faith being put into action. As a teen, I was fascinated by Martin Luther King and the movement he led. My parents were too, and we watched the news and soaked up his oratory. We read what he wrote too. I mentioned in my earlier post that even though I was agnostic and antagonistic to religion, when MLK preached that the Civil Rights Movement was not just about liberating and lifting up black people but also about breaking the chains of the sin of oppression on the souls of the oppressors, that resonated.

But with an endless capacity for seeing what I wanted to see, and blinded by my prejudice, I discounted that religion could be a force for good and focused on the bad.

In my mid-thirties my husband and I moved to a small town. We had wonderful neighbors who welcomed us, invited us to their church and weren't offended when I quickly declined; instead they invited us to bring the kids over to swim in their backyard pool and befriended us. A few years later they invited us to a party in their backyard. It turned out to mostly be people from their church choir who were socializing after the summer hiatus. Had I known that ahead of time, I wouldn't have gone. But they didn't seem that bad, and my neighbor decided to try to recruit my husband to their choir, just to try it out. I found myself in church with our two young boys just to support my husband who was very musical.

No one tried to corner or convert me, not then and not later as I made it clear I wasn't a Christian and didn't want to be one. They made me welcome. Eventually I relaxed and started exploring, and began opening my mind bit by bit. Still, when I realized I believed, I was truly surprised. The last thing I ever expected to be was a Christian.

As I explored, I started to realize these people didn't fit my stereotypes at all. They were bright, competent, warmly friendly, laughed a lot, and thrived on jumping in to be of help to others. The other stereotypes didn't fit either.

The stereotypes do fit some people, maybe even quite a few of those in the Christian Nationalist movement and other very conservative churches.

But those people aren't taught the many parts of the bible in both the Old and New Testaments that reveal a God who prizes doing justice, uplifting the poor, welcoming the stranger, tending the sick, visiting those in prison. The churches and people that try to follow Jesus to the best of their ability are the ones where they tools to humanize people, not dehumanize them. Unfortunately the ones that get all the publicity are the ones who don't try to model themselves on Jesus's teachings and certainly don't practice humility – just the opposite. There ought to be a lot of pushback against toxic theology by those of us whose theology is healing and humanizing. Sadly only one is good at marketing themselves. They seem to get all the attention.

[Dear_Prudence]

224. Thanks

That was a very thoughtful reply. Thank you for sharing your journey. Your observation about marketing is so true!

[summer_in_TX]

231. Thank you, Dear Prudence!

Love your screen name.

[gay texan]

24. Same here

If i find religious tracts at gas stations etc, i throw them away

[Sibelius Fan]

28. I am anti-everything that is based entirely on make believe, as is Xianity,

especially when the godbotherers attempt to push their make believe into the real lives of real people.

[Sky Jewels]

196. See Dobbs

as one particularly egregious example among bazillions.

[flying_wahini]

37. Maybe you are just new here. We don't need any sanctimonious Christians telling us what to believe.

Or how to spell, or use punctuation. Hugs.

[herding cats]

45. She's not new.

She just cannot seem to accept that no means no.

[Coventina]

38. Guilty!

I admit to being grammatically sloppy online. I'm not an English professor, after all!


Having said that, I really don't find rape humor to be funny.

[flying_wahini]

31. If they put that on their label to sell products then (eye roll here).

I do the same thing. No scriptures on products. Ever.

[Buckeyeblue]

33. I became an atheist when i was 10 (the god thing just didn't make sense to me)

And I've tried to be tolerant toward religions. But I'm over that phase now. Once people showed their true colors with Trump and then Covid my tolerance desapated. I want nothing to do with any church or religion. Keep your payers to yourself.

I would have put the christian honey back as well.

[LiberalFighter]

34. When a business includes that they are Christian...

it calls into question their integrity and honesty.

[Ferrets are Cool]

35. I'm right there with you!!

Although I am not shocked. It's the natural order.

[LiberalFighter]

36. It seems that that Christians think only sinners can be Christians.

[LakeArenal]

39. I agree to some extent... although...

I am sure I have purchased Amish food products which I think would have an occasional godly thing on the label. *

But if a commercial company has Fux on the tv or a confederate flag or any political over kill (Democrats included) signage, I avoid it. Those all seem to be an invitation to argue with some one.

I have plenty of signage on my lawn or car….


*I had an Amish friend. Not real close but friends. We would hit rummage sales.
Anyway I’m 2016, she said “The man running seems to be a nice man….”
I said, “Rosanna, he is one of the worst humans on earth.”

We since moved and I wonder what she thinks now..

[BonnieJW]

99. You should see

what Amish farmers do to their horses. Work them to death for as long as they can and then send them to slaughter.
Their are organizations that rescue them.

[LakeArenal]

134. That is not my experience at all.

There are different sects so your experience could be different.

What I found is there is the same percentage of bad Amish as there is in any demographic. They have ways of dealing with people who beat animals or people.

I found the Amish to be not so much a religious sect as a business model. Amish communities tend to be very successful. They take care of their group.

My friend had a granddaughter with special needs at birth. The community spent tens of thousands for that child’s care. They don’t have insurance.

Where I live the women have opinions. own businesses, work outside the home.

I found they love and value their animals. Have cats and dogs.

[leftyladyfrommo]

141. They also run a whole lot of puppy mills.

I have a real problem with the way they treat animals. I have lost all respect for them.

[LakeArenal]

150. Again... Wisconsin is famous for the "English" owned puppy mills.

Some of the most notorious is the US.

No one expects anyone to like individuals that run puppy mills.

I can only speak from my experience and it’s definitely not the same as yours.

Painting anyone with a broad brush isn’t usually applicable.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

172. Dont forget the amish

Puppy mills. Makes my blood boil. If they ever do cat breeding I will be out for blood because cats are my best friends and I adore all of them.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

174. Dont forget the amish puppy mills

If they ever breed cats I will be out for blood cause cats are my best friends.

Cats made me remember what love is when I was suicidal from trauma. Othello literally diagnosed my diabetes and saved my life that day.

You fuck with cats I will be out to fuck you up.

[oldsoftie]

41. Lumping them all together is exactly what the Right Wing does with US

And how did that one line on the back of a bottle hurt you? It wasnt actually preaching, it was just a "thank you"

[Coventina]

52. It wasn't a "thank YOU" (the customer) it was a thank GOD

Here's how it hurts me:
1. I don't believe that the Bible is the word of God, so it somewhat disturbs me to have it quoted on products.
2. The God in question is certainly not a deity I would ever worship, he (gender intended) is a temperamental, murderous toddler, given the accounts written about him in his allegedly holy "Word."

[mountain grammy]

215. Good answer.. well said. Exactly how I feel..

[Mariana]

144. Of course it was preaching.

[senseandsensibility]

42. What you (and I) need to remember

is that anyone can call themselves a Christian. Here's my idea of a real Christian. A few years ago, a large homeless settlement nicknamed "the jungle" was removed by the police in the large city near where I live. In fact, the police officer who lived next door to me at the time was one of the officers who cleared the encampment. I certainly was not in favor of clearing it without providing shelter to those who were evicted. But, to be honest, and I am not proud of this, I did precious little to help with the situation. I happened to be watching the local news the night before these human beings were removed from the only "home" they had: a collection of tents and makeshift structures. I saw the reporter trailing a Christian minister who walking unaccompanied through the "dangerous" encampment (well, the police had to be heavily armed, apparently). He was going from tent to tent, person to person, asking what he could do to help. He was treating them like human beings. He was offering the addresses of shellters, churches, and handing out water. Some of them were following him. It brought tears to my eyes. He got very little publicity for his efforts but I will never forget him.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

43. I've grown more anti-religious period.

If one's religion puts their mind at ease and makes them strive to be a better person, more power to them.

If however, one's religion is a platform from which they put others down, a club they beat others over the head with or an excuse to do some rather inhumane things they're getting the wrong thing out of it,

There are far too many in the latter group from various faiths.

[barbtries]

44. i totally would have done the same thing.

a young girl in my complex was apparently so full of the spirit she felt the need to ask me if i was need of any prayers the other day. even though i don't particularly mind prayer (thinking of it as meditation or putting good energy into the mix i suppose), I just said "i don't believe in gawd" and kept walking.

Was I rude? Or was she rude and disrespectful? I am angered at being proselytized. Everyone is not christian and everyone does not believe what you believe. stop thinking you have any agency over my soul. I don't try to convert you, don't try to convert me. I'm an American so I have the absolute RIGHT to believe what I believe. just as you do. people can say what they want but i still feel disrespected when they do it to me. Consequently I will pass on products, avoid businesses, etc, that flaunt their "faith" to commercialize their product.

[Model35mech]

47. Being an empiricist I find it wierd that people believe in delusions

It's undoubtedly as hard to answer the question, what is objective reality, as it is to answer the question what is truth?
And in many ways those two questions are versions of a single question.

But, I'll ask my a related question in a non-religious way by moving the domain it works among. And I speak of populations that are deluded fundamentalists and perhaps those who want to use "religion" to exploit and coerce the rest of us.

Why does the general population of the United States bend their behavior when it is a minority of whacked out religious zealots who find they can't live in a nation where their views are in the minority? Why can't they as the minority, moderate/mitigate their public behavior into something that's consistent with society AND their tyrannical minority views?

Why do we bother to suffer this as something to which the majority must adjust? The fascistic christian domininists have NO democratic basis, no constitution advantage and certainly no majority upon which they could argue theirs is the prevailing view, and that it MUST be encoded into US Law and dominant social mores in our nation?

Once upon a time I really was a Liberal now I just feel I am a target. But I learned to act like a liberal and liberals are tolerant of others who differ from me/us in mores, cultural interests, lifestyle, etc. I find the Fascist Christian Dominionists the worst version of those who exploit the well meaning tolerance of others, so that they can impose tyranny on the rest.

What, if any, empirical phenomena about the way the world actually works supports the view that the minority Fascistic Chrsitians should be dominant in anything but their own personal lives?

And if you think you know one, and this being DU I am sure some will, before you share it, please prepare an explanation about how well that approach worked for humanity considering the treatment of Muslims and Jews during the Spanish Inquistion and Native Americans in the European colonization of the "New" World.

[SouthernDem4ever]

48. Since I am a Pastafarian I guess I'm not completely anti-religious

But if Pastafarians ever start trying to impose themselves on everyone I will leave.

[pandr32]

49. I'm with you.

I live in an area where there is a ridiculous number of church-related properties. One guy has a honey business under a church slogan, and there are numerous Jesus related day-cares in homes here. There are several homes that claim to have church services I am not even sure happen except to rent out space for functions. I believe they don't pay taxes. I also wondered if the donut shop in Kona (Holy Donuts) that sells $9 a piece craft donuts and puts scripture on their take-out boxes pays taxes. I was floored when we went in and saw the prices. The workers are all church members and I'm not even sure they are properly paid.
The predatory/exploitative/opportunistic nature of religion is one of the reasons I am atheist, and there are many more. I was not raised atheist.

[Susan Calvin]

50. I've been that way for quite a while.

I had enough of church signs that told me I was going to hell, and Christians who broke promises to me, a long time ago.

[dflprincess]

51. I've become anti any religion

Too many of the world's problems are caused by religious nuts of all sorts.

[byronius]

53. Right there with you.

My grandmother was a Southern Baptist who believed it was all about feeding and helping people, period, end of story. She rarely spoke about it unless I asked. It was a private matter to her.

I loved her dearly. She was an excellent human being.

[mainer]

56. Ain't that the truth?

I used to think of Christians as goodly people who turned the other cheek and did good works for humanity..
But the crazies hijacked Christianity, and now when I think of Christians, I think of screaming mobs trying to beat us down with their crosses, invade our bedrooms, and steal food from children's mouths.

[qwlauren35]

57. Strangely

I am just the opposite. I was quite antichristian on my 20s and 40s but I have gotten past it. I used to hate when people said, "Have a blessed day." But I have come to understand that they mean it sincerely. And frankly, I just look at it as someone throwing positivity my way, and sometimes, I'll take it from all directions.

I remember when I first saw trucks with Christian messages. I was quite annoyed, but now... Positivity.

Christians are supposed to proselytize. They are just doing what their faith commands. My faith also commands it, so I try to respond with something Buddhist. The more I think about it, the more I think that I will come up with a nice Buddhist equivalent.

One of my cousins regularly prays for me. She means well. I know that she cares for me deeply. And man, she walks the talk. I am quite receptive of the. Positivity.

I sense that some of you don't have any Christians in your life, who love you, walk the talk, speak and share their faith with warmth and love, and Don't judge. I have these people in my life. And they are Democrats. Conservative, black, prolife, Democrats.

Please don't assume the worst when you encounter Christians. Some of them are really wonderful people.

[OAITW r.2.0]

59. Christ teachings are pretty simple.

I don't need interpreters to twist and warp the message.

[Model35mech]

65. I suppose that's true, if you can sift through all the apochryphal texts

revisions, elite defined "Creeds" of belief, writings of theologians, and epistles to the world from Popes and Metropolitans and find the simple truth.

And that simple truth really isn't a simple as the simplest rule of Christianity: Love others as you would be loved.

Depending upon our own warped romantic views, how we want to be loved can take entire continents to war.

[Act_of_Reparation]

113. "I don't need interpreters to twist and warp the message"

You can read Koine Greek?

[Sympthsical]

211. Do you not?

I thought that was basic second grade cirricula. We called it the Two F's and a Gyro.

Fractions, Phonics, and Koine Greek.

Had to drop out of Honors Aramaic for home ec, tho. That one still pisses me off.

[Act_of_Reparation]

212. You mean you have to watch The Passion of the Christ with the subtitles on???

Such a pleb!

[Sympthsical]

214. Yes, but

At least I'd know how to build the cross!

[Goodheart]

182. There was no Christ.

and the Bible accounts of Jesus's teachings are not very impressive, anyway.

[Mosby]

61. I never knew honey wasn't considered vegan until now.

I guess I understand the reasoning, but I don't agree with it.

Eta what about all the crops that require pollination? The bees were exploited for that process, so they aren't vegan either.

Sorry, but the whole thing is stupid.

[lastlib]

63. "Science flew men to the moon.....

Religion flew men into buildings."

I won't think in their church if they won't pray in my school.

[Model35mech]

133. Technology in the hands of engineers flew men to the moon.

General Physics and Astrophysics mostly let them know what they needed to achieve.

The comparison of what they knew they had to achieve vs things they didn't know how to achieve was the technology gap they filled.

[dlk]

64. Those who find the need to trumpet and advertise their beliefs often have hidden agendas

Generally, I’ve found businesses that advertise their Christianity tend to be shady, in some form or another.

[Bettie]

66. I do the same

I also avoid places with the "This is a Christian Business" signs or the fish symbol on their advertising or their windows. I've walked out of businesses after seeing it at the register, because, in my experience, it is shorthand for "you are about to be ripped off".

I've also been harmed by religion in my life.

[Behind the Aegis]

67. Try living in small town Oklahoma!

LOL!

Yesterday, I got someone looking for work as a tree-trimmer. I wasn't in the mood to have it done them and wanted to talk to my husband first. I look at the card, and on the front of the card, "Done for the glory of G-d" (well, no, dash, that is a Jew thing for me, kinda ingrained deeply. haha) We have been trying to get our roof fixed, two roofing places extol the "Christ is King" and "Our Mission blessed by Him". WHAT THE FUCK?! Just to get a roof fixed, I have to hear about Jesus?! The gun range? Kingdom of Glory. Four new churches in our area despite a population decrease (though, not by much). Half of my interactions in grocery stores and other service industries (fast food on rare occasions), end with "Have a blessed day." On rare occasions, "Jesus loves you!" The first time I had that said to me, I was in a shitty mood and responded, "Well, that is gonna piss off my husband or not, he has a thing for Jewish men." Needless to say, I got a few gasps and dropped jaws. And don't get me started on the fucking protests every time a bunch of queers get together; including one asshole who proudly proclaimed, "My wife, also a good Christian, is at home preparing my dinner, like a woman should." I thought I was going to witness a murder as he was surrounded by lesbians.

[DBoon]

125. They assume you are the same type of Christian as them

Showing off their religion is a tribal identity. Since they worship the same god as you, you should trust them and hire them.

I mean, a secular business might rip you off since they don't advertise their link with the almighty.

Using religion to make a sale is one of the biggest perversions of religion around.

[LeftInTX]

126. I have a funny story

Last year we hired a remodeling guy.
He was a hyper red-headed type in need of anger management. (He also had a hx of substance abuse)

I knew he was holy roller Christian, which was annoying. But I could live with his music and whatever. One day I asked him to do fix/correct something. He didn't want to do it and got mad and said, "You know what you need? You need Jesus!" He went on a tirade.
Oh jeez..hiding behind religion as an excuse not to do part of the job...LOL

[DJ Synikus Makisimus]

68. I think we need a freedom FROM religion amendment.

I'm fine with other folks believing whatever, as long as they don't inflict it on me.

[Happy Hoosier]

69. I used to be a "believe whatcha wanna" type.

I guess I still am to some extent..... I have some very liberal friends who attend church regularly (a very progressive church).

I get it to some extent. I grew up religious and "deconverting" for me was kibnda traumatic. It really did make me re-evaluate my world-view and even my personal identity. Now that I'm over it, I have a hard time even thinking of a time I accpeted Iron age myths as truth... it seems so obvious to me.

But over the last few years, I've seen more "believers" weaponizing their religious identity and seeking social control in the name of their make-believe god. It was always there, of course, but now it strikes me as more mainstream "Christian" than ever, and it scares the fuck out of me.

[Model35mech]

72. Their need to be conquering Christian Soldiers, characterizes their insecurity

They haven't the personal strength and courage to move through a world that doesn't bend over to kiss their er, umh, ah, BELIEFS!

They're weak. Tremendously weak. And that drives them to form predatory packs that prey upon those who don't think the same as they do.

[Happy Hoosier]

82. I agree. but their dedication to privilege and power...

... means they are willing to impose their will, democracy be damned. They have never trully valued "freedom" unless its the freedom to dominate others.

[Model35mech]

98. Their "willingness" means shit to me.

I doubt it means much beyond a reflection of their self-righteousness to a court.

And self-righteousness is not a standard of truth for the court.

[cutroot]

71. Jesus called them Pharisees

evangelicals are not Christians

[Mariana]

149. What are they, then? Are they atheists? Are they followers of some other religion?

For the record, Jesus taught his followers to obey the Pharisees.

Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. Matthew 23 : 1-3

[cutroot]

188. They are mostly fuck-heads ass-holes sycophants and thieves

It says that you must obey them because they have slithered into positions of power by lying and cheating like their fearless leader Stinky. It say’s don’t do what they do. If you keep reading Matthew it gives an even better description of how to deal with the con artists. Jesus was not teaching anyone to obey them he was simply declaring that most were forced to obey them. He was giving a warning.

[madamesilverspurs]

73. I get it.

That said, I'm not "anti-Christian". I am profoundly anti using the Founder of the faith as an advertising gimmick. For example, in our town we have a large sporting goods store that routinely includes "John 3:16" in every ad for assault rifles. Other businesses incorporate Christian symbols in their signage and packaging. Such advertising is much easier than actually following Jesus' teachings, and there is no more blatant offender than Hobby Lobby.

For the record, my life is blessed with people of genuine faith. And none of them find it necessary to announce their beliefs, their faith is visible in how they live. And not all of them are Christian.

.

[CrispyQ]

76. I have a very large house project & I'm shopping for a contractor

& one of the top three I selected from a Google search had some Christian stuff on his About Us page so I crossed him off & moved on. Same when we had the Yellow Pages. If there was a cross or a fish they got an automatic nix.

[jcgoldie]

77. right there with ya.

There's a teacher's aid in the room next to my classroom... every day she makes a point of walking up to me in the hall and telling me to "have a BLESS-ED day!" It's like nails on the chalk board. I will hide in my room through the passing period to avoid making the face I make when she says it. I almost think she does it on fucking purpose!

[Mariana]

153. She probably does do it on purpose.

Some Christians really get a charge out of forcing their religion on other people, and it's extra fun if they know you really don't like it. If you ever call her out on it, she'll feign good intentions and tell everyone you're persecuting her for her faith.

[NNadir]

78. I am an atheist, but I do adhere to certain of the "Christian" values in which I was raised.

I often fail to reach those values however.

The Christian author and scholar Elaine Pagels stated that the "absurd" philosophy that all human beings have intrinsic value worth defined the core of the Christian religion, and I certainly believe this in principle if I often fail to recognize as much in practice.

Although "The Beatitudes" appeal to a reward involving a metaphysical being in whom I do not believe, and/or the environs of that god, "heaven," I admire the virtues they evoke poetically in the "King James" version:

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.
Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God.
Blessed are those who suffer persecution for righteousness' sake,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven...

When I look at the Taliban admiring "Christians" of today however, I am reminded of Alan Watts' remark that instead of practicing the religion of Jesus, they substituted a religion about Jesus. This is of course, absurd, and explains the remark attributed to Tertullian, who I am unlikely to embrace, Credo quia absurdum, "I believe because it is absurd."

From what I can tell, these people who declare that they are "Christian" loudly and offensively are disinterested in whatever Jesus may or may not have said, but instead project their own awful bigotries on to this figure.

I do not believe in God, but I cannot help but to recognize the rising popularity of absurdity.

As for not buying into "Christian" businesses, I do use a laundromat on a public sewer line that is obviously run by a fundie to wash my whites, this to prevent exposing my septic to bleach. I like to bring books on evolutionary theory while waiting for the whites to wash to read in case she shows up.

[et tu]

79. a lot of angst comes from

their golden idol- defendant 45. he has corrupted even religion

[Basic LA]

83. It's the self-righteous posturing.

Keep your tribal mythology to yourself. It doesn't grant you saintly status.

[OMGWTF]

84. Years ago, Alaska Airlines had scripture on their cocktail napkins, which creeped me out

for obvious reasons. These days if someone feels the need to tell me what a great Xitian they are, I say, "Thanks for the warning" and run the other way. Some of the worst people I have ever known are also the biggest Buybull humpers.

[rainin]

85. I didn't leave the Christian church. It left me

I loved my church growing up. My family went to services twice on Sunday and Wednesday nights. It was a happy time. The sermons were about virtues...patience, generosity, love, etc.

I stopped going as I got older out of laziness, but when my children were born, I began looking for a church home. Holy moly, how things had changed! Church after church. Different denominations, even. The people had become clickish, tribal, snobby. The sermons had a distinct us/them message. None was overtly political like I think some are now, but it was unmistakeable that democrats were not going to be welcome there, unless we remained closeted. The children's activities seemed gimmicky and manipulative to entice kids to attend. My very young kids could feel the nastiness behind the syrupy voices and fake smiles.

I've since become atheist and my children are atheists, too. But, I would have loved a community like I had growing up. We did without.

[ancianita]

86. I feel you. I would have thought and done the same thing,, and I'm a Christian-former-atheist.

Pride and power appear in many thoughtless acts by Christians.
By many examples and by his words, Jesus literally said to those he did good for that they should not tell anyone, and that whenever they do good for others, to do it without acknowledgement, and with no one else knowing. That's it and that's all, over and over. That owner missed that part, did a dumb thing, and is probably among the 70% of Christians who don't regularly read and meditate on the NT, so he's got no excuse if he loses business.

[hatrack]

89. Want to lose my business? Put a Jesus fish on your business card/website/billboard.

Last edited Tue Feb 27, 2024, 05:18 PM - Edit history (1)

[Conjuay]

167. back when I had a pick-up truck

I wanted to put a bunch of what you called ‘Jesus fish’ on the tailgate along with a stick figure in waders with a fly rod.

As I mentioned here before, when Sister Louise started telling me and my fellow first graders about a talking snake, I knew someone was trying to blow smoke up my parochial school uniform.

[dalton99a]

177. They use the "Christian" label to hide the fact that they are the least qualified

Worse, they lie and cheat.

[Demobrat]

90. I have to remind myself constantly

that it is not okay to be prejudiced against southern white “Christian” males. Even though my experience with that group has been less than stellar. All prejudice is wrong.
You have to take people as they come. Even them.
So I must remind myself, over and over.

[Model35mech]

103. It is NOT prejudiced to be aware of where twisted truth comes from

And so, awareness of challenges to truth, becomes a seriously important part of critical thinking.

It's only wrong to suggest that one person is somehow linked to a group characteristic that has not been shown to exist in that individual.

Once the connection is established... FULL SPEED AHEAD with that line of thinking.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

176. Sometimes

Prejudice is self preservation. I have been horribly abused by christians and my visceral reaction is triggers against christian abusers. I dont like christians that talk about thier religion.
Got literally cornered by a building corner and mobbed by some evangelicals awhile ago. My friends threatened them to get away from me.It took everything I had not to hurt them. But I hate christians,prefer to avoid.

[Demobrat]

191. I once had a white male Christian co-worker

tell me smugly that something I proposed wasn’t the Christian thing to do. I forget what it even was. Like that was the end of that. Christianity trumps all.

What I will never forget is the look on his face when I replied “I’m not a Christian “.

In other words you cannot use your religion to bully or manipulate me.

He was utterly flummoxed and flabbergasted. Had no response. I took away his weapon.

He had nuttin’.

[Warpy]

101. You've got a lot of company out there

given that the "nones" are now. Republicans and their toxic culture and useless performances in office have destroyed the brand.

https://www.npr.org/2024/01/24/1226371734/religious-nones-are-now-the-largest-single-group-in-the-u-s

I have to say that it depends on what bible quote they used. Something accusatory or just plain nasty, it makes an audible clunk when it goes back on the shelf. The Golden Rule or one of the Beatitudes, I'll support the religious guy and buy his product.

IOW, it's not always offensive unless the person behind it wants to be offensive.

[Kath2]

104. I'm with you.

I'm sure I would have done the same thing.

[SarahD]

106. I'm with you.

If I suspect my purchase is helping to spread the propaganda, I get someth9ng else.

[LymphocyteLover]

107. I'm not anti-Christian but I really dislike products and services where their owner advertises their religion

unless the product or service has a specific religious purpose, of course

but I see signs all the time for like plumbers or house contractors where they add in something about being Christian or they add a Bible verse, and it's like, I'm avoiding them at all costs.

[Mike Nelson]

108. Speaking for myself...

... I would put it back on the shelf because so many public pronouncements of Christianity are Anti-Christian. I would assume something about the honey maker was not kosher.

[bernieb]

110. Good Intensions

It's shocking how we question what might be a person's good intensions. I would have done the same thing. But, I know a man who was my oldest son's best friend growing up. This man still calls us, "Mom and Dad." He's a Christian whose company manufactures freeze dried candy. He puts a little bit about his and the company's history on the packages. He's not a Trumper.
It's unfortunate we lump all Christians together when there are many who aren't Christian Nationalists.

[dchill]

111. Secular honey. I like it!

It's honey, not baloney!

[SCantiGOP]

112. I went to first 6 grades in Catholic school

As George Carlin noted, Catholic schools are where they train future ex-Catholics.

[Initech]

115. I was already very anti-religion.

Then Trump and the MAGAs turned me off of the concept entirely.

[Best_man23]

116. Former Catholic and Presbyterian, now I'm an agnostic at best

Both Catholicism and especially Presbyterian really gave me a sour taste for all organized religion.

[phylny]

138. Interesting. I am a Presbyterian Elder in the PC-USA church, not Presbyterian Church in America.

The former, in my experience, is rather liberal. The latter, not as much!

[Stuckinthebush]

117. I've noticed that the more a business proclaims their faith in god

the more likely they are to rip you off. It's a con in many cases I guess. It could be that those individuals who feel a need to plaster that they are Christian on their logos or labels may well believe that whatever they do is sanctioned by a god. That means that if they rip you off it was the lord's will.

Anyway, I don't think that is anti religion just anti evangelical businesses.

[eppur_se_muova]

127. Everyone's heard the expression, "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel", but really, it's religion. nt

[Stuckinthebush]

128. Amen!

[Torchlight]

118. I've become the same about nationalism and patriotism.

If there are U.S. flags or overtly-political or national themes on the boxing of a product it's wholly irrelevant to (cereal, toilet paper, etc.), I'll go on to the next one. It is weird that as a human species we often give ourselves over to the imaginary, and invest so much of our own identity into that concept, we have a difficult time seeing it for the imaginary construct it is.

And from that, we make so many of our daily decisions based on these imaginary standards and measures that we often become consumed by them, investing more into the make-believe than in reality. Religion, politics, economics, law... none of it exists anywhere but our own imaginations, and yet they have such an impact on even the smallest of our decisions.



"My conclusion is this; man is a giddy thing" (W. Shakespeare)

[chowmama]

120. I've met so few of them.

The real kind. The kind I meet have never ventured into the New Testament and I'm not sure why they call themselves Christians at all. They're sure Jesus is too 'woke'.

When somebody identifies as Christian publicly, it's almost a dead certainty that they're a TaliBaptist or the like (whatever term you prefer). I run from them as fast and as far as I can. I can't trust them. If I can't make myself into their model, they will do whatever they can to change or destroy me. And I can't make myself into their model. So, as soon as 'Christian' escapes their lips (or makes it onto their label), I'm out of there.

I don't mean to offend any real Christians (as I define them, e.g. Jesus followers). But the trust just isn't there. It's basic self-defense. And I'll be damned if I'll give them any of my money.

[Celerity]

148. no true Scotsman fallacy

I've met so few of them.
The real kind.

[denvine]

121. Good for you!

I would have done the same! I thought that perhaps the wall I had built btw me and religion would at least become translucent but it's actually getting to be a fortress.

[Tom of Temecula]

129. Don't trust the middleman

Jesus had a lot of great things to teach. Most of which gets ignored.

Unfortunately, there are way too many who claim to speak for him that are quite the opposite in their actual practices.

My take? Don't trust the middleman. Go straight to the source.

[appleannie1]

130. I have faith but don't need to go to a church organized by humans.

Besides, if you actually read the Bible you see just how hypocritical they really are.

[woodsprite]

132. I'm the same way!

I’m the same way about any type of product or online shopping. My SIL wanted me to sell some of my jewelry on her website. In 5 years, it’s sold one thing - A wooden bowl my other BIL turned. I know I was turned off by all the Bible verses and quotes she put up each page. Pretty sure other people would be as well.

Truthfully the only reason I still go to church is our friends. I feel no need to go there to get a spirituality boost for the week. If I want to have a conversation with God, I can do it in the privacy of my home and it will be a more meaningful conversation for me at that.

Our pastor (Presbyterian) is cool though. She’s young, marched in the women’s and science marches, is a member of Planned Parenthood’s Clergy for Choice, and supports our local LGBTQ community, etc.

Oh, and I love it that one of our elders says the Bible is more like the pirate code than a history book!

[Chainfire]

135. I don't have a problem with any religion as long as they don't try to drag me down with them.

I was raised in a Southern church, (Methodist) I got all of the messages, but even as small kid I had my serious doubts about a lot of it.

Extrodianary claims require extrodinary proofs.

[Sky Jewels]

195. Well they've dragged all US women down.

Roe would still be standing if it weren't for the fucking Catholic Church and its Opus Dei loons on SCOTUS.

[twodogsbarking]

137. The whole "God" thing gets me down. Just live life and be the best you. Best to all.

[generalbetrayus]

139. Your post has obviously struck a nerve among many DUers.

I am also irritated by Bible verses attached to commercial products and businesses, and avoid both. I've read numerous books by the New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman and have become convinced that the historical Jesus was not an evangelist but an apocalyptic Jew who expected the "End Times" in his lifetime. Saul of Tarsus (aka Paul), who came afterwards, was the Evangelist spreading "the Word". I often wonder if Christians should really be called Paulians.

I was raised in the Methodist Church, but consider myself an a-gnostic, that is, without spiritual knowledge. I think anybody offering up Christ in business and government matters, especially in offering up prayers for this and that, should keep it to themselves. Matthew 6:6, New Revised Standard Version, says, "But whenever you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you." I say, "Amen" to that. Well, no, as a Pastafarian, I say "rAmen".

[Klondike Kat]

143. If someone has to announce that they're a Christian

then I doubt their Christianity.

You shouldn't need to announce it - it should show by the way you live your life.

[Oopsie Daisy]

145. I avoid businesses and shops that display their little "Jesus Fish" emblem.

It doesn't mean "we're Christian and you can trust us"... to me it means "non-Christians, and LGBTQ not welcome here"

[AdamGG]

146. I've had problems working on my laptop at local coffee shops

in suburban Kansas City because of repeatedly having people at nearby tables having 90 minute loud fervent conversations about the scripture and devoting their life to the lord.

I'm from Boston and my work has been all online for 20 years. I never once heard one of these conversations there. I'm hearing things like, "Your relationship with Christ has to come before your relationship with your husband", "I home school my children because I don't want to expose them to the woke ideology - we just have them read a little Dr. Seuss and a little of the Bible and just mix it all together." Or, they start reading Bible passages aloud to each other.

It makes me want to show up with some friends and have a long, loud talk covering topics from George Carlin's Religion is Bullshit sketch and related thoughts. I think that would be no more inappropriate than what they're doing, but I'm actually more respectful about keeping conversations like that private.

[keithbvadu2]

151. Evangelical/Trump Christians are political Christians and are the public face of Christianity in America today.

Like today's evangelical/religious right supporters, Trump is a Political Christian, not a Christian of faith.

Evangelicals/religious right are easily able to spin their beliefs for political expediency.

[Trueblue Texan]

152. I feel exactly the same way...

I have nothing against authenticity in faith, but I am so disgusted at those who claim to be Christians and embrace behaviors and values that are so alien to the love that Christ taught that I no longer have any tolerance for Christian bullshit. I once was a Christian, but because of the despicable behaviors "Christians" demonstrate, I decided to take a more critical view of faith, Christianity in particular, and now I consider myself an atheist.

[Groundhawg]

154. That's everyone's right

[Wonder Why]

156. You need to separate the Christians from the Pseudo-Christians and Christofascists.

Followers of Christ don't do that in my experience. All that noise is coming from the other two groups and it is unfortunate that Christians don't tell them to shut up. That's their biggest failure. There is a time to be meek and a time to speak.

[Mariana]

157. Doesn't God decide who's a Christian and who isn't?

It's certainly not OP's responsibility to try to sort them out.

[TheKentuckian]

158. That doesn't seem specifically anti Christian

as much as anti commercial proselytizing.

Any other religious text presented in such a fashion, I suspect would have drawn a similar reaction or would something about Krishna or out of the Quran gone in the basket?

[JohnnyRingo]

159. That's the same reason I wouldn't fly the flag from my truck.

I love the flag, and you probably aren't anti Christian. It's just that right wingers have taken religion and the flag as their symbols.
We just don't want to be one of them and don't want people to think we are. They ruined it the way Hitler ruined the swastika.

[lindysalsagal]

161. Welcome to the silent majority.

Many only use their churches for their own purposes: They don't believe in any particular things, just, that it's their nebulous identity.

[Bird Lady]

162. I have had people try to shove their dogma down my throat my whole life.

My Grandmother was a fire and brimstone Baptist.
I had to go to church Sunday, Sunday night, Wednesday and bible school.
The education I got there showed me what hypocrites they are.
They proved to me they are incapable of walking the walk but have no trouble talking the talk until they are out of the church.
These days anyone who claims they are christian to me, I tell them I'm a heathen. Tends to shut them up.

[GAJMac]

164. Public displays

I'm not particularly religious, but I do remember Matthew 6:5-14

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen.

[Sessuch]

165. ME TOO

[TexasDem69]

166. I don't judge a company or individual on their religious beliefs

But that’s just me.

[Mariana]

179. Putting Bible verses on a product isn't a belef, it is an action.

[screamcheese]

168. Let the Buyer Beware

A few years ago, I declined the services of a kitchen remodel business due to the profession of Christianity emblazoned on their vehicles and website. My elderly father was swindled out of his entire retirement savings by members of his church who were in the business of providing financial advice. Let the buyer beware. A smokescreen of piety may be the cover for a con artist.

[mwb970]

171. I have come to associate Christianity with fear, hatred, cruelty and heartlessness.

You know, like Jesus teaches in the Bobble.

[tornado34jh]

175. For me, religion is man-made. But there's a big difference between it being personal vs. when it rules the government

I have friends from different religions, even ones that are not mainstream. I don't agree with them and I think religion itself is man-made. However, compared to these right-wing religious nuts (I'm not just directing it at Christianity, it is most mainstream religions) none of them are forcing their religion or whatever on anybody else and not trying to make it a theocracy.

Heck, back when I was working at Walgreens in Virginia, I had a couple of Muslim friends from Afghanistan and Somalia, both being some of the better coworkers I had in a place that didn't have enough workers to be quite frank. The former, she was a very quirky character and in a good way, always making me laugh, always unique. Her sister worked in the Safeway right across the street. The second person, he went to George Mason University in Fairfax, but he liked talking about sports and the like, so I always trusted them.

My criticism of religion is on the basis that it doesn't make sense with the real world, and people use it for the wrong reasons. Keep in mind, I have been to many countries in Europe, most of them predominantly Catholic. However, at least from where I have been, religion doesn't "rule" the state, unlike say Poland, Hungary, most of the Middle East, etc.

[pansypoo53219]

180. just anti holy rollers.

so alled christians.

[yankee87]

183. Faux Xtian

Any time I see anyone with scriptures, religious symbols on their company page, pass them by. You know they’re going to cheat you.

[Martin Eden]

185. It's like Trump hugging the flag

Ostentatious displays of religiosity or patriotism are shallow and manipulative.

[Iggo]

186. It's weird, ain't it.

[GAJMac]

187. To add one more thing

[Iggo]

189. That's the only kind of religious experience I need.

[drmeow]

190. I routinely choose

to not give my business to companies that have overtly religious messages on their products/trucks/other public faces of the company.

I spent enough time reading the Bible as a child to know that Jesus would be totally against that - and it tells me all I need to know about their "faith."

[stage left]

192. Me, too.

I used to be live and let live. I didn't really care unless they were burning books in the parking lot behind the sanctuary. Of course that's not a new phenomenon. Happened at the church my sister went to back in the nineties. Last time they saw her.

[Kennah]

193. Murican Jesus hates you, but Woke Jesus loves you

Owner of that honey would do well to read Matthew 6:1

"Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven."

[Sky Jewels]

194. You know those Jesus fish some Christians put on business marketing materials?

They might as well be a skull and crossbones plus radioactive symbols, as far as I'm concerned. "Stay Away" is the message.

[czarjak]

197. About your feelings, they have a less than Christlike solution.

[MLAA]

198. I ordered some gravy mix that luckily just happens to be vegan.

I had bought it before and was restocking the pantry. There was a Christian religious little card in the box. I don’t intend to buy from them again. You should be able to order groceries without getting any religious material.

[Polybius]

199. I personally buy what I like, regardless of the CEO

I wanna eat Ben & Jerry's while driving a Tesla.

[GenThePerservering]

200. A little holy thank you note on a honey jar from the

company who made it would not bother me. When I had my first business my accountant worked for a firm with the fish symbol and a motto that said "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's...and not a penny more!" They were an excellent firm and treated my little business tax return with real respect and care. No god bothering.

So, I guess if the honey is good, and people treat others with respect, I have no problem.

However, the obnoxious street preacher shouting at a crowd of us wanting to get into the college football game was so rank that I bellowed at him "Your theology is rubbish!" That got a laugh from the people around me and a pout from him.

So, depends on the situation.

[ForgedCrank]

201. I do

my best to not mock or hate other people for their beliefs.

[barbaraann]

202. Found on Bob Smith Glue's website:

But the Lord's love is the only bond that is everlasting.

[walkingman]

203. The decline of religiosity is not by accident - their action speak louder than their words.

[llmart]

207. I would have done the same thing.

But I'm an avowed atheist.

[wolfie001]

209. A lot of the natural food company owners....

.....that haven't been bought up by the biggies are run by people with the same faults as the average joe 6-pack (gawd told them to make that bread/jam/frozen whatever). I'm an atheist and I look for the best deals. I don't go to Home Depot because of the owner but even that dude is cooling to fat donnie. I agree with you 100%. I'm a skeptical Democratic Boomer 100%.

[h2ebits]

210. I also don't want "religion" shoved at me. . . .

I reject any company that provides slogans and religious dogma with their services, as well as products, such as the honey that you mention. I live in a condo building and one of my neighbors uses a window washing company. She recommends them because they do a good job. I reject them because they have religious messaging on the side of their truck.

[paulkienitz]

218. today's ostentatious evangelical Christianity isn't about Christ, it's just a shibboleth

The purpose of espousing hard-to-swallow religious dogma such as young earth is to identify and exclude the people who hold to other standards of belief, such as needing evidence. It's for identifying who's a "real American" and who's a domestic enemy to be fought or oppressed. It's a political movement now rather than a religious one. It's a hate movement. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the teachings of Jesus.

[apnu]

223. I have been anti-Christian since the Pentecosts scared me to death when I was five.

My mother was on a quest to find the right church, late 70’s, sent me on a Sunday school trip where I was told to color in a picture of Jesus with gouts of blood coming off him on the cross. Only color I was given was red, and I was chastised for not apply enough red and staying in the lines. (I have ADHD, staying in the lines was hard). Then they chanted that the blood of Jesus was on me until I cried.

Years later, at catholic school, I was molested by fellow students in the bathrooms, both priests and nuns ignored it and made me go to confession for saying anything.

Then years after that I was assaulted on college campus by a soapbox preacher throwing 3 penny nails at people accusing us of being sinners for not listening to him.

Then years after that, as my father was dying of leukemia, while he was in a coma, and on death’s door, the preacher of the church he attended, held a conversation about how Jews are the root of all the world’s problems because of Pontius Pilate washed his hands, so he was absolved of Jesus’ death.

I have read the Bible several times, I can’t balance Jesus’ message with the actions of his avatars throughout my 50 years, I’ve known too many Christians, they have shown me what the practice is and I want nothing to do with any of them ever again.

[Coventina]

228. I feel your pain, truly and deeply.

My mother was a holy roller, and my dad was a strict Calvinst.

There could hardly be a more toxic mixture of Christian doctrines.
My dad's "You are a horrible person worth of hell!" was drilled into me from infancy.

Then, my mother would send me to summer camp with the Pentecostals who would show me movies about life after the Rapture with distraught Christians left behind because they weren't good enough.

I was totally fucked up with "I'm gonna miss the Rapture because I'm a horrible person" at least until I was well into my college years and I finally had an extended field of inquiry for my brain.

I spent so many sleepless nights as a child and young adult waiting to miss the Rapture.
Ugh! It should be considered child abuse to do that to kids.

[H2O Man]

225. Recommended.

I try to not dislike groups of people. But when the christofascists seek to inflict their diseased beliefs about the gentle message of the prophet Jesus on the rest of us, I still have to oppose their agenda.

[Kath2]

226. I don't really think of myself as anti-Christian.

But I have come to view most of it as a cover for being against reproductive rights, LGBTQ+ rights, etc. And that really turns me off to anything else they are pushing.

[former9thward]

236. Our last two Democratic presidents are Christians.

And they have never been afraid to mention it when it they wanted to make a point. Are you against them?

[mvd]

237. Well I know what you mean

I still call myself a liberal Catholic but prefer to be spiritual and not religious. I don’t like the group think being religious can do.

[Kaleva]

238. How do you feel about Jews and Muslims?