Hamas 'could not have anticipated' Israel's response to October 7, official says

[Beastly Boy]

Hamas official Mousa Abu Marzouk claimed that Hamas did not anticipate Israel’s response to its October 7 massacre, according to a translation of an interview given to Egypt’s Alghad TV on Thursday by the Middle East Media Research Institute.

Asked by the interviewer, “When the [al-Qassam] brigades did what they did on October 7, did they have any expectations regarding the consequences of the attack?” Marzouk responded that nobody had anticipated Israel’s response.

“Nobody in the whole world expected them to be so barbaric,” Marzouk said. “And in Such violation of all international laws, treaties, and norms. Nobody expected the [Israeli response] to be so barbaric because, ultimately, the resistance fights soldiers. It is not fighting civilians with planes and tanks.”

The same Hamas official claimed in October that terror tunnels had been constructed to protect Hamas terrorists and that it was Israel's and the United Nation's responsibility to protect Palestinian civilian lives.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-788764

---

All those years of planning a spontaneous peaceful sight-seeing tour into Israel, politely inviting over 200 Israelis into Gaza as honored guests and digging tunnels under schools and hospitals for the exclusive use of benevolent Hamas jihadis, and the consequences are totally unanticipated.

Irony is dead.

[Freethinker65]

1. WTF is this Hamas official's job if not to anticipate the response to Hamas' planned terrorist attack upon Israel?

[brush]

38. WTF is right. Hamas violently attacks Israel but had no idea Isreal would attack back even more...

violently? Who the hell is running this war, evil and dumb vs even more evil and dumb?

Hamas stupidly attacks, kills hundereds, takes hundreds of hostages, then Israel responds like a sledge hammer would do to a fly...SPLAT...and here we are, both sides dumb and evil. Again, WTF? Where do we go from here?

God, I can't stand it. Still no closer to peace and a two-state solution.

[Johnny2X2X]

2. I think Hamas was shocked by the success of the attack

I think they thought that perhaps they might kill a couple hundred people and take a couple dozen hostages. They didn’t think they’d kill 1400 civilians and take hundreds of hostages.

The scale and brutality of their attack was what they didn’t anticipate.

[yardwork]

5. I disagree. I think Hamas had help from Iran and others.

Hamas was given weapons and encouraged to be extremely violent and barbaric so as to elicit exactly the response they wanted from Israel. The whole thing is proceeding exactly as planned. Hamas launches a horrific attack, Israel responds exactly as Netanyahu would be predicted to respond, the U.S. and other NATO allies get stuck in a no-win situation, some Democrats decide they "can't" support Biden, Trump gets reelected, Trump removes support for Israel and Ukraine, Russia gets Ukraine, Israel is wiped off the map, there's an actual genocide of Jews in the Middle East, and Putin/China/Iran/Saudi Arabia/global billionaires divide up the spoils.

[Celerity]

59. Israel Lowers Oct. 7 Death Toll Estimate From 1,400 to 1,200

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/daily-briefing-nov-13-day-38-why-israel-reduced-the-official-october-7-death-toll/amp/

Official Israel has revised the estimated number of murdered in the October 7 attack from 1,400 to 1,200. Fabian goes over the numbers and adds them up.

[Walleye]

3. This is kind of the essence of asymmetrical warfare.

The good guys are supposed to follow the rules, and the bad guys just fuck everything over. Then expect the good guys to keep following the rules.

[Igel]

25. In the past it worked for Israel to out crazy the other crazies in the neighborhood.

Israel became predictable.

And this time the crazy it had to surpass was a whopper.

[dutch777]

4. Either laughable PR by Hamas or admission of complete stupidity. With Bibi and the RWers in charge....really??!?!?!?

Perhaps it is over the top but Israeli response was going to be an incursion and gut punch of major proportions to a substantive degree. And as much as I disagree with the amount of innocent Palestinian death and suffering, I won't forgive Hamas just because they say "Ooops! We miscalculated." I hope the Palestinians themselves feel the same way.

[Uncle Joe]

17. Possible cover for Hamas leadership complicity in provoking exactly what they knew would happen.

I can't imagine with the history there in the region combined with Netanyahu's record of humanitarianism, stellar leadership and calm measurement that they would think he would react in any other way.

[yardwork]

27. It's impossible that any informed, sane person would have expected anything else.

It was totally predictable and, I believe, planned to elicit exactly this response.

As you note, Netanyahu is nothing if not predictable.

[Sympthsical]

18. It's "We had no idea Israel was so evil! Can you believe they're more evil than we thought?"

PR.

Which sounds . . . awfully familiar to mine western ears.

"The resistance fights soldiers"

Yeah, because that's just what courageous warriors for God do. Hide behind grandmas and infants.

[keithbvadu2]

6. What a bold faced lie! --- "because, ultimately, the resistance fights soldiers"

Hamas, whose muslim warriors sexually molested/killed/mutilated women, children, and babies.

[The Magistrate]

7. I Don't Think They Expected Quite What They Got, Sir

The level of delusion at which the whole of 'Palestinian resistance' operates militates against sound strategic calculation. I expect they figured something a bit more intense than the usual brief campaign might occur, but not this.

An instance of 'be careful what you ask for, you just might get it'....

[agingdem]

10. do you know why they didn't expect the force of Israel's

Last edited Sun Feb 25, 2024, 01:02 PM - Edit history (1)

retaliation?...because they hide their weapons in tunnels under schools, hospitals, mosques, homes and migrant camps...if they thought Israel would show restraint because Hamas chooses to use Gazans as human shields, they greatly underestimated Israel's resolve to protect and survive..Never Again..

[Beastly Boy]

13. I think they fully anticipated the response. In fact, their leaders openly and explicitly welcomed it.

What they counted on is the world reacting to it overwhelmingly in their favor. The well planned and rather overtly orchestrated campaign of outrage that followed Day 1 of Israel's response speaks of their intended strategy. It is not out of the question that South Africa petitioning ICG was part of that plan.

It was intended to be a brutal and costly publicity stunt, at the expense of Israeli and Gazan civilians. Where Hamas miscalculated was in their belief that campaign of outrage against Israel they were counting on would be sufficient to obfuscate the brazen cynicism built into their strategy. What they didn't anticipate was the emergence of a counter-narrative that ultimately exposed Hamas as cynical self-serving murderers that they are.

This is the part Mr Mousa Abu Marzouk did not anticipate and appears to be so bewildered about. Of course, he would never openly admit it.

[The Magistrate]

16. You Make A Good Case, Sir

I do agree the South African stunt was performed in coordination with Hamas, whether this was before or after the atrocities. I don't think advance coordination with the various student and 'community' groups is necessary to explain the speed of their response; all the slogans and charges are ready to go in such circles, and with modern communication can be deployed quickly. But I don't rule it out, either. A 'heads-up' could have been passed to people of influence in these bodies, I expect there are witting assets, if not clandestine members, among their leadership.

[yardwork]

31. It was fertile ground, Sir.

Student groups, lefty groups like DSA, etc., have been talking about the Palestinian plight for a long time. These groups are deeply and loudly anti-Zionist. They were primed to go, but I do think the global propaganda campaign that launched simultaneously with the Oct 7 attacks has highways, and these groups were immediate recipients of talking points.

I don't see how large in-person protests could be organized with 24 hours notice, but maybe...

[agingdem]

24. the Hamas false outrage campaign began almost

Last edited Sun Feb 25, 2024, 05:08 PM - Edit history (1)

immediately...the hospital "bombing".. many killed blah blah when in fact it a Hamas wayward missile and it was the parking lot...here's the thing the "from the river to the sea" crowd doesn't get...Israel doesn't give a damn about public opinion/UN resolutions...Jews are a tiny fraction of the world population and yet Jews are almost universally hated because, I suspect, we survived...we survived expulsions, the Spanish Inquisition, pograms, the Final Solution...and as per Israel: 75 years of Arab hostility and Arab determination to wipe Israel (and Jews) from the face of the earth...

and one more thing...if Hamas (or any terrorist) kills even one Israeli, the IDF will target and kill 100 of their guys...there is no tit-for-tat..there is no restraint...Never Again..

[Uncle Joe]

29. Why hasn't Netanyahu realized this with his totally indiscriminate use of force?

I agree with much of your post.

Starving hundreds of thousands of children to get at 30,000 estimated Hamas members out of a population of 2.3 million Palestinians, that have been living in an open air prison for over decade, how could anyone, even Netanyahu believe that would be acceptable to the world?

[jimfields33]

33. Hamas didn't think it through. That's for sure.

Good for Israel for surprising even the evil terrorists.

[Uncle Joe]

35. With their long history, it would be almost impossible for Hamas leadership to not know

how Netanyahu's government would respond to October 7th and how the world would react over time as the atrocities piled up.

My question is how Netanyahu's government did not know this?

[jimfields33]

36. I don't know, but once it happened, Israel went all in. All countries would.

Heck Ukraine is fighting back evil. I’m glad Israel is too.

[Uncle Joe]

41. I have little doubt we would use these scorched earth tactics, we did it in Vietnam and Cambodia.

That didn't work out well.

Ukraine is fighting back evil, but they're a separate nation invaded by a hostile power.

I believe the closest analogy to us would be the U.S. with Native Americans on a reservation.

[The Magistrate]

40. You Must Know What Bullshit You Are Peddling, Sir, In Your 29 Above

You can't be unaware your position boils down to: Hamas can commit atrocity and operate in standing violation of international humanitarian law with impunity, while Israel's actions against Hamas must be subject to global censure, and halted by global outrage. I am tempted more and more towards the vernacular: that's just fucked up. That's not how things work, and the crap spewed in favor of Hamas (let's leave off the 'pro-Palestine' fig-leaf, the line argues for the survival and success of Hamas) wouldn't get a smidge of traction if it were not Jews Hamas was attacking, and Jews doing their best to protect themselves against pogrom.

[Uncle Joe]

43. That's a very simplistic approach to a 75 year old Groundhog Day

Out of well over 30 thousand dead Palestinians counting the ones buried under the rubble. how many are Hamas?

Two, three or four thousand?

Out of the hundreds of thousands of children being deliberately starved to death, how many are Hamas?

My position is, make a fucking deal give the Palestinian People the freedom, dignity and state that they and every other human deserves!

[The Magistrate]

47. War Is A Very Simple Thing, Sir

The ultimate in 'heightening the contradictions'.

You are approaching this as if it were a punitive expedition, someone attempting enforcement of a guilty verdict, and zealous no innocent be punished even if the guilty go free.

But that's not what it is.

This is war.

War is not some sporting event, where dead people are points, and at some juncture 'enough' have been accumulated so the war ends. But that does seem to be how many guide their understanding of it.

War is the attempt of one party to a dispute to impose by violence what it cannot secure by purchase or reason. It ends when the party first resorting to violence secures its object against the violent objection of the other, or acknowledges its violence has failed to do so, and ceases to fight.

In war one does not so much strive to kill people in order to end their lives, as one kills people to convince other people they'll be next if they don't give up, or flee, or at the very least keep their heads down a while.

It is true that if one party to a war fields a soldiery who actively courts death, killing a good deal more is required than in the average run: such soldieries are not common to history.

It is also obvious that such a death-desiring soldiery, establishing itself in facilities and fighting positions beside, under, or over the dwellings of non-combatants, is going get a great many persons killed in course of war against them, who will suffer for no better reason than that they were in the way of people fighting the men here to fight till they died.

I suppose you might say that is worth it, if you favor the resolution of the dispute they are contending for, certainly no one opposed to it would agree.

If people do take up for a side which fields soldiery of this sort, and disposes them in that manner, they ought at least to be clear about what the goal actually sought by that side is.

That's something a good many people aren't at all clear on....

All criticism of Israel on grounds of cruelty or excess founder one simple fact:

Not one bomb would be being dropped on Gaza, not one person there killed or maimed or harmed in any wise, were it not for the spree of sadistic rape, torture, murder and kidnapping Hamas treated its killers to on October 7.

[Uncle Joe]

49. Do you believe that a person's environment can shape their character and perceptions of reality?

If you do, logic dictates that October 7th didn't happen in a vacuum and so long as the Palestinian People exist without freedom, dignity and a state of their own, Israel will never have security.

So what's your solution to this ongoing nearly three quarter of century conflict, because this is war?

I will answer it for you, there is no solution shy of genocide or a peace treaty with either a two state or acceptable hybrid one state solution.

[NickB79]

56. Hamas stated goal is the genocide of the Jews, per their charter

Not "freedom, dignity and a state of their own". The well-being of the Palestinian people is not on their radar, while their top officials live in villas in Qatar.

How exactly do you create a peace treaty with such an entity?

[Uncle Joe]

58. You don't make peace treaties with your friends.

You start by sitting down at the table, then you negotiate.

Obviously with any peace treaty, Hamas would have to eliminate that from their charter and disavow it.

I don't believe it takes too much Googling to find members of Israel's government calling for Palestinian extermination.

[TheKentuckian]

79. You make peace with those willing to seek it.

Peace is not the aim and is not being offered under any conditions but rather swearing to continue until Israel is destroyed and Jews are all dead.

That will not be met in the middle nor should it.

Burn in Hell is a completely appropriate and extremely generous counter offer.

[The Magistrate]

60. I Am Well Aware Of the History Here, Sir

It does not change what a ghastly crime was committed to inaugurate this latest fighting, or that no one in Gaza would be presently under fire had it not been committed.

The people of Arab Palestine 'exist without freedom, dignity and a state of their own' owing to choices made by its political leadership, ratified by the acquiescence of the populace over decades.

Without the continuous threat of random murder of Jews by Arab Palestinians, the Israeli government's measures styled as protecting its populace would be unnecessary, and would meet little support if pressed without that evident need.

If you are looking for a key to bringing the fighting to an end, that is it: stop fighting. Give it up. Nobody's getting grandpa's farm back, Jews live here and they aren't cowed dhimmis anymore; it's never again going to be like it was a century ago when the English and the League of Nations took over from the Turks. Violence has failed to gain anything for the people of Arab Palestine, every instance of resort to it has ended with their circumstances more straitened and their prospects for the future worse. People who seek revenge on another are often cautioned to dig two graves when setting out to achieve it, and that the political leadership of Arab Palestine has embraced. It might have been better had they taken counsel with Mr. Herbert that 'Living well is the best revenge'. That's in their power, even now.

[Uncle Joe]

61. You should know that context changes everything

The Palestinian People don't have political leadership, they're captured by it with Hamas guards on the inside and Israel on the outside.



From the influential author of Dynamics in Action, how the concepts of constraints provide a way to rethink relationships, opening the way to intentional, meaningful causation.

Grounding her work in the problem of causation, Alicia Juarrerochallenges previously held beliefs that only forceful impacts are causes. Constraints, she claims, bring about effects as well, and they enable the emergence of coherence. In Context Changes Everything, Juarrero shows that coherence is induced by enabling constraints, not forceful causes, and that the resulting coherence is then maintained by constitutive constraints. Constitutive constraints, in turn, become governing constraints that regulate and modulate the way coherent entities behave. Using the tools of complexity science, she offers a rigorously scientific understanding of identity, hierarchy, and top-down causation, and in so doing, presents a new way of thinking about the natural world.

Juarrero argues that personal identity, which has been thought to be conferred through internal traits (essential natures), is grounded in dynamic interdependencies that keep coherent structures whole. This challenges our ideas of identity, as well as the notion that stability means inflexible rigidity. On the contrary, stable entities are brittle and cannot persist. Complexity science, says Juarrero, can shape how we meet the world, how what emerges from our interactions finds coherence, and how humans can shape identities that are robust and resilient. This framework has significant implications for sociology, economics, political theory, business, and knowledge management, as well as psychology, religion, and theology. It points to a more expansive and synthetic philosophy about who we are and about the coherence of living and nonliving things alike.

https://direct.mit.edu/books/oa-monograph/5600/Context-Changes-EverythingHow-Constraints-Create

[The Magistrate]

65. Whatever

Seriously, this is bean-breeze.

In the days of the Mandate, there was political leadership centered on the Mufti al-Husseini (who became an open collaborator with Hitler).

There was political leadership centered in the PLO, morphed into the current Palestine Authority.

Hamas is political leadership today in Gaza. It's nonesense to pretend otherwise. The reason Abbas of the PA does not stand for re-election is widely acknowledged to be that if there was such an event in the PA's territory, a Hamas candidate would likely win. People approve of the goals of Hamas, the expulsion of Jews achieved by the extinction of Israel, enough of them do to define the political climate. That has been the goal of Palestinian Nationalism from its beginnings, and remains the organizing and fighting creed of it to this day. Its roots are religious and ethnic bigotry, and persisting in it has led to its adherents dwelling in a paradise of the mind, comprising fantasies of restorative vengeance strained through suicidal ideation. It's a toxic brew, that like most any intoxicant does its imbibers little good.

[Uncle Joe]

70. So you're defining the Palestinian People based on a possible pre-election poll?

Netanyahu's long term both pre and post October 7th policies have only served to weaken the PA and strengthen Hamas.

[The Magistrate]

71. I Am Observing the Circumstances, Sir

With no particular interest in making one side or the other look good.

I don't see myself ranged on the side of angels against demons, I do not view things in terms of right and wrong. It makes it easier to comprehend what's actually going going on, in any situation.

[Uncle Joe]

73. Well that's good, but circumstances without context

is just propaganda.

[Bucky]

52. Hamas are lunatic, nihilistic terrorists. They don't "think through"

They only hate and react.

But sure, congratulations to Israel for killing half of hamas's current stack of pawns. All it took was the killing of 13,000 children, a bargain.

[jimfields33]

53. Look. Israel cannot lose sight of survival.

The last time they did, they ended up in ovens getting gassed. Israel MUST win this!

[Bucky]

57. You got to keep shooting water at the wasp nest

The second you turn the hose off, the wasps will come out and sting you again. You have to sit there and hold the hose on the wasp nest forever and hope eventually they'll all drown.

I get that. The problem is, what do you turn into if that's your approach?

I'm just saying that crowding 2 million Gazans into an open air hot gulag created the conditions that made the growth and anger of Hamas so profitable to the cynical sociopaths who gain power by manipulating their fear and hatred of Israel. You know, along with little help from Bebe.

At this point, I can see why they would treat these human beings like wasps and find ethnic cleansing to be the best solution.

[TheKentuckian]

50. The world can dispense with Hamas in a way it feels is more palatable

If the plan is to suck it then to hell with the world's input is batcrap.

[Beastly Boy]

63. I am not sure what exactly Netanyahu was supposed to realize.

The brutality of the original attack on Israeli civilians or the cynical disregard for the lives of their own civilians? And I am not sure what you meant by realizing whatever you expected Netanyahu to realize withhis totally indiscriminate use of force. As far as I am aware, the IDF use of force was discriminate, while the use of force was not, so I am not sure what you mean.

Arguing the proportionality of Israel's response is way above my pay scale, especially considering who among the belligerents is ultimately responsible for the dead and starving children, so I am bowing out of that debate. The same goes for the "open air prison" nonsense, which is nothing but an oveused hyperbole. I don't see any merit in agreeing or disagreeing with a hyperbole.

Also, I hope you don't consider the response to Hamas invasion itself indiscriminate. That was the most legitimate of any causes to use retaliatory force in retaliation.

If, on the other hand, you mean that force was used indiscriminately in the course of this war by IDF, I must disagree with it as well. You may argue that it was excessive, but not indiscriminate. It was Hamas that indiscriminately distributed their military assets among civilians. Actually, this was a very discriminating decision on the part of Hamas to maximize civilian casualties. Hamas leaders said so themselves. I have yet to see evidence of IDF targeting areas absent of legitimate Hamas military assets.

As far as "the world", it appears that some things are more acceptable to it than others, so it is understandable why Netanyahu may be counting on "the world" being inconsistent in its judgements.

[Uncle Joe]

66. Is that why the IDF shot their own hostages waving a white flag?

Is that why the IDF destroyed every hospital in Gaza while cutting off food, water and medicine to a population of over two million people without any discrimination as to actual Hamas fighters and the general population of Palestinians?

All those two thousand lb bombs that the IDF dropped on a high density population, was that discriminate?

If the world didn't get upset about that and a whole lot more, I would be worried.

Netanyahu knows he is creating more enemies than he is eliminating, but it does increase the chances of prolonging the war and keeping him from facing justice for corruption.

[The Magistrate]

72. Oh, Yeah, That Was A Direct Order Down From the Top: See A Hostage Waving A White Flag, Shoot Him

I'm not even going to bother explaining rules of engagement against an enemy know to feign surrender to get close and detonate.

I'm done with you.

[Uncle Joe]

74. and the 2000 lb bombs dropped on high density area, the cutting off

of food, water and medicine for over two million people was that just rogue IDF?

That came from the top along with the statements from Israeli government officials that was for all but any form of distinction between Hamas and the Palestinian People.

[NickB79]

82. The main perpetrators of the indistinction between Palestinians and Hamas are Hamas

If they were even remotely worried about the IDF targeting civilians, they'd wear uniforms like a real military organization. But their ability blend into the local populace is their strongest weapon, and they are loathe to give it up.

[Beastly Boy]

77. If you seriously think IDF target their own hostages, or

or target hospitals that are not being used by Hamas militants, or have the power to unilaterally cut off food and water to two million people, or unilaterally create war zones out of densely populated areas, all without discrimination or provocation, you are dreaming.

And guess what: "the world" isn't getting upset about a whole lot more than what you are paying attention to, except you are not paying attention to it. "The world" definitely has its favorite pinatas to swing at. Hell yeah, you should be worried, as I do!

And have you seen all those hate filled text books found in the Hamas-run Gaza schools turning out more enemies, whether Netanyahu is eliminating any or not? Tell me he published them all!

[The Magistrate]

69. Just A Bit Of Errant Pedantry, Sir

'Hyperbole' comes from the name of one Hyperbolus, a demagogue in Athens active in the early stages of the Peloponnesian War, who evidently made a name for himself by exaggeration, if lampoons of him in contemporaneous comedies are to be credited. He was assassinated at Samos in course of the coup of The Four Hundred against the Athenian Democracy.

[yagotme]

86. What is an "open air prison"?

Gaza has walls/fencing around 3 sides, not 4. There are gates that allowed movement, albeit restricted, into Israel and Egypt (due to terrorists hiding among authorized Palestinians). 2 of the 3 sides were built along the borders of Israel. the 3rd, was built along the border of Egypt. Now, Egypt and Israel, in general, haven't gotten along well throughout history. Why would Egypt throw up a wall connecting to the Israeli wall, to keep in a population that, generally, politically agrees with Egypt? Perhaps it's the Palestinian terrorists that are the problem, since 2 different countries have decided to erect barriers along their frontiers...

[yardwork]

30. I agree. The propaganda didn't work as well as planned.

A whole bunch of us turned out to (1) be able to have compassion for innocents on both sides, (2) hold strong to our conviction that what Hamas did was wrong no matter what, and (3) never abandon President Biden.

[Hekate]

34. Good to see you Sir. I don't really have anything to add at this hour of the morning....

I’m just getting in before our resident apologists show up.

Back to my first cuppa joe.

[The Magistrate]

48. Thank You, Ma'am

I'm feeling particularly wasp-ish just now, we're all down with covid at the house, waiting for wife's paxlovid prescription to get sorted at the pharmacy.

[Hekate]

54. We had that back in August -- miserable stuff. Fortunately, hubby got it after me...

…so he was the one detailed to go to the pharmacy for Paxlovid, and our doc had presciently ordered prescriptions for both of us.

My sister in law kindly left a large pot of homemade chicken soup on the front porch for us.

Hope you all get better soon. 🌸

[RandomNumbers]

8. I stopped reading at Hamas spokesman's use of term "barbaric". I mean really, WTF?

But okay, I went back to the whole sentence where that occurred:

(emphasis added)

Nobody expected the [Israeli response] to be so barbaric because, ultimately, the resistance fights soldiers. It is not fighting civilians with planes and tanks.”

No, it fights civilians with torture, humiliation, and rape.

But they didn't expect the Israeli response to be "barbaric"?

Granted, they are two different kinds of barbarism. I don't agree with the approach by Netanyahu and his far-right cretins. But to bitch because a state entity responded to a barbaric attack with barbarism?

Right, and where are the hostages? Get back to me when you've released them all, compensated the families for the dead and injured, and submitted the rapists and murderers to the courts. Then we can talk about reparations from the other side.

Oh and let's be clear:

1. Hamas leaders certainly knew who Netanyahu is, and how he would respond, to their brutal attack.
2. Hamas leaders certainly knew that their attack would only strengthen the hold of Netanyahu and the rabid right-wing in Israel.

So, fuck you, Hamas. Fuck you and your buddy Putin and all your rabid misogynistic anti-humanity members and buddies.

[Cha]

42. Barbaric, Sadistic, Medieval Terrorist Gang Raping HAMAS PROJECTS!

SHOCKING!

[dlk]

9. I'm not buying it

Hamas had to know Israel’s response to Hamas’ torture and butchery of Israel’s civilians would elicit a very harsh response from Israel. Who are they trying to fool?

[RandomNumbers]

64. They are trying to fool Gazans

many of whom, I believe, were just trying to live their lives and are caught in the vortex of violence Hamas has created.

Of course, among those "just trying to live their lives", there was already plenty of hatred of Jews / Israel. There were family members fully supportive of the rape and other cruelty that Hamas perpetrates. The babies and young children are/were innocent. Not sure how much innocence we can grant to any adults that have tolerated Hamas as their "leaders".

(For any apologists - it is the same thing if the U.S. is exceedingly stupid and somehow makes Trump President again. While many of us do not "deserve" what will happen, we can hardly expect to be excluded from the consequences.)

[JustAnotherGen]

11. He is full of

Shit.

This asshole has the authority to have the hostages released yet refuses to do so.

[limbicnuminousity]

12. Okay, that's a line of nonsense.

That is what we used to call "Grade A" bullshit. You don't get to murder, rape and take hostages and then express surprise at the response. Outrage, sure, arguably. Surprise? GTFO.

[LeftInTX]

14. They used the hostages as bargaining chips and it didn't go their way.

[Coventina]

15. Wait, wait, let me get my violin!!

[keithbvadu2]

19. How much does Hamas care about the lives of ordinary Gazans/Palestinians?

How much does Hamas care about the lives of ordinary Gazans/Palestinians?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218683807

Hamas commander on why terror group attacks civilians

CBS-""You had to have known that there would have been Israel's response, that Palestinians would suffer as a result."

A- "We are not pleased with that, but this is the path of armed struggle."
-----------------------

Certainly not the families of Hamas elite.

Hamas leader and family escape through their tunnels.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218686776

Hamas uses civilians as human shields, Gazan journalist states

[republianmushroom]

20. Retribution can be a bitch, as Hamas has found out.

Maybe they will think about it a little more in the future. Maybe.

[TheKentuckian]

21. I'm all for no next time. Time to nip it in the bud.

[republianmushroom]

22. Hamas officials have said this is just the start. There will be a next time.

[TheKentuckian]

23. I wasn't saying they did not have the intent.

I'm saying that they should not be around to carry out the aim.

[RandySF]

26. Well fuck you (Hamas) and the horse you rode in on.

They had no idea how a government would respond to raping and slaughtering their.citizens? Classic example of true baebarians trying to hide behind the rules they believe their victims should follow.

[elleng]

28. Irony is dead REALLY.

[Wounded Bear]

32. I think Netty has been looking for an excuse to do exactly what they are doing...nt

[TexasDem69]

80. No idea what he's thinking

But Israel’s reaction to Hamas’ atrocities were completely predictable and fully justified. If Hamas truly cared about saving Palestinian lives it would lay down arms, release the hostages it seized, and turn over the murderers/rapists who planned and participated in 10/7 for trial.

[Lovie777]

37. What total bullshit...................................

instead of the world becoming more enlighten with compassion many have decided to go in the other direction.

They prefer to go backwards but still move forward in technology.

Hamas knew what the fallout was going to be. They did not care, and they do not care about the Palestinians neither.

[Lunabell]

39. Fuck around and find out.

Although I personally think bibi's gone too far, he's an evil putin wannabe and his government is despicable, what the fuck did hamas expect? They were civilians!! Party goers. Just your ordinary citizens, not troops. Attack military targets if you must, not innocents who are having a lovely day.

[The Magistrate]

45. Well Said, Ma'am

[Cha]

44. Bull F Shit, Mousa Abu Marzouk ... your Stupid Sales Pitch

is NOT Working!

Go Back to your HOLE.

[BootinUp]

46. Hamas only makes statements when they need to

spread fear or disinformation.

[Cha]

62. Exactly. TY

[Bucky]

51. Couldn't anticipate? Israel is doing the VERY thing Hamas wanted.

They may have underestimated the scale, maybe, but Israel is essentially locking in at least two more generations of reliable recruits for Hamas or whatever success organization comes along next.

This operation is Netanyahu's big fat Christmas present to Hamas. He needs them like Batman needs the Joker.

[TheKentuckian]

55. What longterm sentiment do you think Hamas engendered?

What do you think a more reasonable government would have done?

This isn't partisan in my view.

[The Magistrate]

75. Indeed, Sir

No conceivable government of Israel would have done differently.

Israel was brought into being to establish one place on earth Jews need not worry people would come kill them because they were Jews. In face of pogrom launched over its borders, the state will, it must, vindicate its purpose.

[LeftInTX]

88. In the past, Israel has bent over backwards for hostages.

They released 1,000 Palestinian prisoners for one hostage!
I think that's what Hamas was expecting.
"We got 200 hostages. They're gonna empty the prisons! We got it made!!"

[edisdead]

67. Are you fucking kidding me?

Reminds me of the time I poked a stick in that hornets nest. How was I supposed to know what would happen?

[Turbineguy]

68. For a long time

the Israelis have wanted to get the Palestinians to the same point that the US got the Germans and the Japanese to in that they surrendered unconditionally.

The Hamas attack showed the Israelis that time was at hand.

[TheKentuckian]

81. That is the path to peace. There will be none as long

as the lost cause is held onto in any capacity.

[Turbineguy]

84. The Palestinians have a 30 year head start down the rabbit hole

over the MAGAts

[TheKentuckian]

89. Quite a bit longer than that but yeah.

[no_hypocrisy]

76. Like Hamas pulled a silly prank and Israel overreacted?

Is THAT what they mean?????

[agingdem]

78. Slaughtered, mutilated, tortured, burned alive, kidnapped....

Last edited Mon Feb 26, 2024, 05:02 AM - Edit history (1)

how dare Israel retaliate!...wasn't Israel advised to show restraint, give warning, follow the rules of war, make nice with Hamas...how about a cease-fire/ how about a no-fire...how about if Hamas says they're really really sorry and pinky swear to never again behead babies, dismember children, gang rape women, set the elderly and disabled on fire, turn a music festival into a killing field, and capture/kidnap/hold hostages....oh, and that "river to the sea" thing, just a nursery rhyme, nothing serious..so are we good?...

[Mountainguy]

83. Well, they know now

These assholes need to understand that when you fuck with a country with a modernized military, and you have Toyota pickup trucks and soviet era AK-47s, you're going to get fucked up.

[Silent3]

85. At this point, I think Hamas and Israel are trying to one-up each other on who cares least for Palestinian lives n/t

[yagotme]

87. I believe Hamas is the winner there.

Hamas has never really cared for its own population. Israel at least tried to warn civilians before bombing runs.