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Bernardo de La Paz

(49,044 posts)
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 10:22 AM Feb 22

Garland hater ping

Yes, the pace of things is frustrating.
Yes, there are issues with Smirnov.

But if Garland is to be hated, then it would be consistent to hate Fani Willis. Garland was investigating, then appointed Smith, who charged tRump. Only after that Willis charged tRump. She did not require Smith to charge first; it just happened in that sequence.

Shouldn't haters be hating on Alvin Bragg? He charged first only by a few months, but that investigation started at least two years before Garland and Willis.

But if Garland is to be hated for being "slow", does that mean Willis was sleeping until waking up late in the game? No. There are things we wish had been done more quickly and things to dislike about Garland, but let's be consistent and steer a realistic course.

Let's realize that if Willis took her time to get it right, it also took Garland / Smith time to get their cases right.

91 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Garland hater ping (Original Post) Bernardo de La Paz Feb 22 OP
we dont have endless time with this thing- there is the rub Blues Heron Feb 22 #1
It's largely out of their hands now Bernardo de La Paz Feb 22 #2
All I see are foot soldiers going to jail for 1/6 where are the higher ups? Blues Heron Feb 22 #17
What you see is not consistent with what has happened. Beastly Boy Feb 22 #41
There is no space between understanding the gravity of the event and. moving with urgency to protect the Republic TheKentuckian Feb 22 #72
DOJ is a tool of the government. They don't pass the laws, they follow them. Beastly Boy Feb 22 #78
I don't think I even implied that the DOJ was a legislative body. TheKentuckian Feb 22 #83
This is the persistent shortcoming that I see in critics of DOJ: Beastly Boy Feb 23 #89
Jerry Nadler asks DOJ to investigate former US Attorney Scott Brady for false testimony about Smirnov republianmushroom Feb 23 #90
It looks like you are trying to make a point. Beastly Boy Feb 23 #91
Judge Chutkan is doing a good job, has to wait on SCOTUS to rule on whether trump is immune on criminal charges. brush Feb 23 #88
Hasn't Smith gotten off the pot? live love laugh Feb 22 #13
Hard not to hate a guy trying to take down our democracy and rule of law. Irish_Dem Feb 22 #3
In the context of the OP, I find your conception of our democracy and rule of law puzzling. Beastly Boy Feb 22 #42
Former FBI spy hunter pleads guilty to working for Russian oligarch republianmushroom Feb 22 #77
I said "undermines, not "affirms". Beastly Boy Feb 22 #81
If he was not undermining our democracy or rules of law, then why was he arrested republianmushroom Feb 22 #82
Let's see if you can answer this riddle yourself, shall we? Beastly Boy Feb 22 #84
Non one here hates Garland. But from what most see he's doing as little as possible. Autumn Feb 22 #4
See Post #3. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Feb 22 #5
That says it's hard not to hate him doesn't say they hate him. The problem is he has gone after the low handing fruit Autumn Feb 22 #24
You are being too kind. comradebillyboy Feb 22 #6
I strongly dislike him Tribetime Feb 22 #16
There should be no pinning of roses on MOMFUDSKI Feb 22 #7
Nothing I see here praises Garland. It just confirms what most know. live love laugh Feb 22 #12
Sometimes deliberately. Think. Again. Feb 22 #62
I hate no one, gab13by13 Feb 22 #8
March 16, 2021, eh? Garland was sworn in March 11, 2021. . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Feb 22 #9
And appointed Jack Smith edhopper Feb 22 #11
Appointing the Special Counsel was NOT the start of the investigation Bernardo de La Paz Feb 22 #14
Like Hur or Weiss? edhopper Feb 22 #18
Like Hur & Weiss were not the start of their investigations either. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Feb 22 #19
Like I said edhopper Feb 22 #21
So you want to censor me. Repeatedly. Bernardo de La Paz Feb 22 #25
You simply don't know what you're talking about Fiendish Thingy Feb 22 #20
Garland is 0 fer 2 in appointing special counsels gab13by13 Feb 22 #26
Sounds like you don't understand how investigations work either Fiendish Thingy Feb 22 #38
True, but some people do. republianmushroom Feb 22 #74
Because i dislike cilantro, shouldnt i also dislike garlic? getagrip_already Feb 22 #10
President Biden's lawyers gab13by13 Feb 22 #27
Yes, but you forget that there is a dead horse that must be beaten. Ocelot II Feb 22 #15
Talk to us after the stall allows cases to linger MOMFUDSKI Feb 22 #22
My question is whether complaining about it ad nauseam will change anything. Ocelot II Feb 22 #23
Tim Heaphy, lead J6 investigator gab13by13 Feb 22 #32
Assuming all of this to be true, how does complaining about it constantly Ocelot II Feb 22 #35
its a message board - its why they exist, to bitch about shit and see if like minded souls are on the same page Blues Heron Feb 22 #48
If there is no complaining and ineptness isn't addressed, will get better ? republianmushroom Feb 22 #79
The answer is no, but more people will be aware of the ineptness of Garlands justus department. That's a good thing. Autumn Feb 22 #33
All I see is the perpetuation of the narrative which is favored by a certain faction on DU Beastly Boy Feb 22 #50
its a bitch sesh, we were asked by the OP specifically to come and bitch, here we are. Doesnt amount to a hill of beans Blues Heron Feb 22 #51
Sounds about right, but this bitch sesh has been going on for months without any invitations. Beastly Boy Feb 23 #86
How deep is that. Autumn Feb 22 #55
No words of wisdom intended. Beastly Boy Feb 23 #87
Intentional ignorance is helpful when one starts with conclusions rather than facts. TwilightZone Feb 22 #45
Haters? You're calling us haters? CrispyQ Feb 22 #28
If you don't self-identify as some level of Garland/Willis/Bragg hater then you are not being called out Bernardo de La Paz Feb 22 #31
I don't call people who disagree with me haters but have at it. -nt CrispyQ Feb 22 #37
Likewise, I don't call people who simply disagree with me haters. But further, I know Bernardo de La Paz Feb 22 #43
It is hard to debate with anyone gab13by13 Feb 22 #44
Funny you should say this. Beastly Boy Feb 22 #52
Yeah we don't hate. pwb Feb 22 #29
Oh, I see... Think. Again. Feb 22 #30
So you're an all-or-nothing black-or-white kind of person it seems Bernardo de La Paz Feb 22 #36
It is actually yes or no... Think. Again. Feb 22 #40
Partisanship is not black-or-white Bernardo de La Paz Feb 22 #47
Not similar at all... Think. Again. Feb 22 #49
Agree malaise Feb 22 #34
"Hur was appointed after there already was a Special Counsel for tRump documents, so it was an unusual situation." gab13by13 Feb 22 #39
I think its been explained to you that Special Counsels are appointed to investigate whether a crime has been committed onenote Feb 22 #46
And the FBI can't do that? gab13by13 Feb 22 #57
What is THAT supposed to mean? Beastly Boy Feb 22 #54
Nobody "hates" claudette Feb 22 #53
Comparing Garland and Willis seems utterly absurd to me BeyondGeography Feb 22 #56
Nice post, maybe you can answer this question I asked before, gab13by13 Feb 22 #60
You make some good points, starting with first one Bernardo de La Paz Feb 22 #63
This R House will impeach anything with a D next to it BeyondGeography Feb 22 #65
Yes, agree with those points and well stated. . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Feb 22 #66
The fact that there are so many displeased with Garlands foot dragging is a sign that maybe you are flying_wahini Feb 22 #58
Your post starts with a false premise Bernardo de La Paz Feb 22 #59
I guess I read it wrong. You say that it takes time but Fani is running circles around them. flying_wahini Feb 22 #61
Agree, we don't have much time left, before the election. But that's not the final say-so on tRump Bernardo de La Paz Feb 22 #64
I don't hate Garland. I just hate his way of thinking about politics... ananda Feb 22 #67
This is the reality MorbidButterflyTat Feb 22 #68
*Snork!* What a crock. Scrivener7 Feb 22 #69
There is more republianmushroom Feb 22 #70
We are all Veruca Salt when it comes to justice Generic Brad Feb 22 #71
37 months and counting is not now, in my book. republianmushroom Feb 22 #73
Hate? No, I just don't grasp the adulation and find him dangerously worthless. TheKentuckian Feb 22 #75
I don't hate Garland, I just find his squeaking irritating. jalan48 Feb 22 #76
Garland wasn't slow about one thing: the Hassler Feb 22 #80
The problem is, Garland is still fucking up, unfortunately. We have to beg him to do his job ecstatic Feb 22 #85

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,044 posts)
2. It's largely out of their hands now
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 10:27 AM
Feb 22

They already shat and are off the pot.

Perhaps the hate should be directed against Loose Cannon. But do you want to hate also Judge Chutkan who is moving her case along quickly?

Blues Heron

(5,944 posts)
17. All I see are foot soldiers going to jail for 1/6 where are the higher ups?
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:03 AM
Feb 22

when?

come on bro - this is a joke of a response to a a coup attempt. We have a Federalist Society member as AG. Maybe that explains the lack of response.

Beastly Boy

(9,436 posts)
41. What you see is not consistent with what has happened.
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:29 AM
Feb 22

We are not a banana republic where wholesale executions follow coup attempts.

If the time-honored checks and balances and protections of our justice system are unacceptable, let's be honest and start advocating extra-judiciary methods of dealing with coup attempts instead of bashing DOJ official for admirably sticking to the letter and the spirit of the rules they are bound by, as per the laws that were passed by our legislators on out behalf, in the most difficult of circumstances.

TheKentuckian

(25,029 posts)
72. There is no space between understanding the gravity of the event and. moving with urgency to protect the Republic
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 09:17 PM
Feb 22

and a banana Republic?

I guess I there will be bananas today then if the other choice is a pass.

Yes, the leaders as well as the rabble needed to be locked up to face trial and not for parading and such crap but for insurrection rather than being free to still pose the same threat now years later.

Beastly Boy

(9,436 posts)
78. DOJ is a tool of the government. They don't pass the laws, they follow them.
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 09:49 PM
Feb 22

The kind of protecting of the Republic you are talking about requires an enforcement regime that our system of justice does not possess. A typical banana republic does.

So what's your preference, empower DOJ with banana republic rules of conduct or blame DOJ for not applying banana republic rules of conduct? The former insures the immediate banana-republic-ization of America, and the latter does squat to protect, as you perceive it, the Republic.

TheKentuckian

(25,029 posts)
83. I don't think I even implied that the DOJ was a legislative body.
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 10:37 PM
Feb 22

If I did I'm sorry it came across as such.

I am saying they should actually perform their function and prosecute the criminals and actual crime.

I grant that I don't enjoy parades so I may be jaded but I have attended them and seen more. I am missing the resemblance even through a negative lens on the events.

I maintain there is space well within the scope of the law for more determination with a more firm approach and if there isn't I am left more than a hair befuddled at prosecutorial fervor and/or lack of accountability for it over time.

Let's cut the bullshit, if these perpetrators were leftist or for sure black the whole enforcement and prosecution situation would be hair on fire and harder than diamond and it would take a hell of an argument for me to even begin to buy otherwise.

Sorry man, way too passive, political, and deferential to the right.

He was stifling anything above the rube/"enlisted officer" levels until Chump was so brazen and ridiculously defiant with the records that he ran out of options or there would be nothing out of the DOJ.

A black mob trying to sack the Capital would be too dead for court. Period.

Beastly Boy

(9,436 posts)
89. This is the persistent shortcoming that I see in critics of DOJ:
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 10:08 AM
Feb 23

Conjecture replacing facts and reason.

"they should actually perform their function and prosecute the criminals and actual crime"
-They actually do. Apparently, not to the extent you would like, but that is, by definition, a subjective judgement, which is not founded in fact.

"I maintain there is space well within the scope of the law for more determination with a more firm approach and if there isn't I am left more than a hair befuddled at prosecutorial fervor and/or lack of accountability"
- The scope may be more limited than you perceive. I only glanced at the volumes of rules and regulations governing DOJ, and they areway more extensive than I could imagine. There is a purpose to it: the powers DOJ possesses are immense and easy to abuse.This is why there are strict limits to what DOJ may or may not do, and the circumstances in whichaction is required or forbidden. Determination and firm approach are, again, subjective measures, while the rules and regulations are not.

"if these perpetrators were leftist or for sure black the whole enforcement and prosecution situation would be hair on fire and harder than diamond "
- Substitute "leftist" for "patriot" (an euphemism for "trumpist&quot and ""black" for "true American" (an euphemism for "bigot&quot , and this is the criticism of DOJ I hear from the right, nearly word for word. Without denying the institutional racism present in all strata of US government, this too is conjecture and, intentionally, hyperbole. I can easily argue, as subjectively as you do, that what you describe is, due to the extensive scope of the rules that govern it, less likely to occur at DOJ and FBI than it is, for instance, in Congress.

"Sorry man, way too passive, political, and deferential to the right."
-See above. As the old adage goes, if you offend everyone equally, you must be diong something right. Note that, like your statement, this is not an argument. The argument is in the OP.

He was stifling anything above the rube/"enlisted officer" levels until Chump was so brazen and ridiculously defiant with the records that he ran out of options or there would be nothing out of the DOJ."
- This is downright factually false, and again, doesn't pretend to be anything but speculation on your part.

"A black mob trying to sack the Capital would be too dead for court. Period."
-Probably the truest statement in your post. The National Guard would have been called in immediately. But DOJ is not in charge of National Guard, or the Capitol Police, for that matter. As a matter of fact, Garland wasn't even AG at the time. For the record and as a matter of fact rather than conjecture, of the Jan 6 crowd estimated to be around 2500, more than half had been arrested on Garland's tenure.

Beastly Boy

(9,436 posts)
91. It looks like you are trying to make a point.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 09:16 PM
Feb 23

Does it relate to anything I posted, or is this just a random reference to Jerry Nadler's request?

brush

(53,871 posts)
88. Judge Chutkan is doing a good job, has to wait on SCOTUS to rule on whether trump is immune on criminal charges.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 12:25 AM
Feb 23

But considering Garland, somehow his slowness always seems to favors republicans. It's going on 4 years and there is suspicion that some coup participants are still serving in congress, trump is still running around delaying, delaying, delaying, hoping his appointed judges/justices go along with the obvious plan to allow motion after motion after motion to run out the clock on bringing the 91 felony indictments to trial until after the election, or so close to the election that he can keep yelling that he's a victim of a witch hunt.

And so far Judge loose Cannon and the SCOTUS 6 are complying. SCOTUS for some reason is delaying ruling on the couldn't-be-more-goddam-obvious DC Circuit Court's decision that no one is above the law, even a president, is not immune from breaking the law.

Garland's first order of business on taking office should've been starting an investigation on not just the foot soldiers on J6, but also the planners of the attempt to overthrow the government of the United States...it's so obvious it should've been the very first job of the Attorney General to attend to.

But no, trump and others were running around non-indicted for a couple of years. If Garland had started investigating the attempt to overthrow the government of the United States immediately on taking office we would not be faced with whether trump can run-out-the-clock before the election.

Come on, if not for the House J6 Select Committee putting the DOJ, with way more investigative resources to shame, we wouldn't be here watching the clock tick down like in a football game.

trump should've already been tried, most likely convicted, a year ago. I mean it took how long, how many attempts in the slam-dunk MAL docs case to get him to return just the documents he stole...and he's still got some (DOJ's FBI agents missed finding a secret room with even more stolen, and still retained, hidden docs).

But no, Garland waited way too long to appoint Special Counsel Smith (doing a great job btw), when no special counsel was needed. He, the Attorney General should've taken direct charge of the investigation of the attempt to overthrow the government of the United States. He himself, the AG, that's his job.

But no, his hesitance, timidity, or whatever you call it, some may see it as guile even, him being a Federalist Society recommendation, he went the special counsel route for others to do his job. Hell he even appointed a republican-appointed special counsel, Hur, to go after Biden's docs case. It took years and produced a bang-up, near-400-page, hit job report on Biden which Garland read and released without editing out the blatant HIT JOB comments on "the old, slow, well-meaning elderly man with a poor memory not fit to be president." The exoneration of Biden was some 200 pages deep into the report, where as the exoneration of former VP Pence for his similar docs case, took one page and much less time to exonerate Pence with no hit job commentary.

Did I mention Garland is a Federalist Society recommendation, the outfit that generates a list of all the extreme, right wing judges/justices that republican presidents appoint to courts from, including Judge Cannon and the SCOTUS 6 btw?

Is Garland a republican party mole whose, I'll be kind, DELIBERATE moves take much time and seem to always favor the republican party, and trump?

It's too late now but IMO after Biden wins the election, Garland should immediately be thanked for his services and shown the door before he can do more damage.

I still can't believe he released that Hur report without editing out the hit job stuff. Talk about a passive-aggressive stabbing of Biden in the back...

Beastly Boy

(9,436 posts)
42. In the context of the OP, I find your conception of our democracy and rule of law puzzling.
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:31 AM
Feb 22

Care to explain how anyone at DOJ has acted in any way that undermines either our democracy or the rule of law?

republianmushroom

(13,687 posts)
77. Former FBI spy hunter pleads guilty to working for Russian oligarch
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 09:44 PM
Feb 22

Charles McGonigal, once special agent in charge of counterintelligence at the FBI’s New York office, admitted that he took money from Putin crony Oleg Deripaska.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/fbi-agent-mcgonigal-pleads-guilty-russian-oligarch-rcna100073

Believe he did work at the DOJ.

Beastly Boy

(9,436 posts)
81. I said "undermines, not "affirms".
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 10:06 PM
Feb 22

The due process of law that brought about charges against McGonigal, who was investigated by the FBI, indicted by DOJ, and found guilty by the courts of law, undermines squat. It affirms our democracy and the rule of law a full 100%.

Beastly Boy

(9,436 posts)
84. Let's see if you can answer this riddle yourself, shall we?
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:45 PM
Feb 22

Hint: Did he succeed in undermining our democracy?

Any light bulbs above your head yet? No?

Ok, second hint: Who prevented him from succeeding in undermining our democracy?

Any lightbulbs yet? No?

Ok, last hint: Look at your post above. The answer is right there, staring at you: just find the cause and the effect parts in your question and arrange them in their proper sequence.

Got it yet? No?... Oh, I give up!

Here's the answer: he attempted to undermine our democracy, and he failed miserably. And he failed BECAUSE he was investigated and arrested. His failure affirms the strength of our democracy and the rule of law, thanks to FBI, DOJ and the courts acting in concert, as intended.

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
4. Non one here hates Garland. But from what most see he's doing as little as possible.
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 10:29 AM
Feb 22
I think the term is inept. It's a big department and 2 big cases, 4 if you count the ridiculous unwarranted Biden cases is really pretty fucking sad.

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
24. That says it's hard not to hate him doesn't say they hate him. The problem is he has gone after the low handing fruit
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:13 AM
Feb 22

ignored the ones at the top who were in on it. . The ones who are still in power and have the ability to do it again. We know some of trumps people have flipped on him, we know phones, texts and messages have been turned over. We know which people in Congress were in on it with him. Where are the charges against those people? The Justice Department has more than 40 separate component organizations and more than 115,000 employees. You want to tell me they can get the people who openly bragged that they were in on J6 but they don't have the ability to go after a few Congress people?

Maybe I was wrong, maybe he is hated. Rightfully so. He is fucking protecting the people who tried and will probably succeed next time to destroy our Democracy. Hell after typing that I'm thinking it would be easy hate him. He should be fucking fired.

live love laugh

(13,137 posts)
12. Nothing I see here praises Garland. It just confirms what most know.
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 10:49 AM
Feb 22

The wheels of justice really do turn slowly.

gab13by13

(21,405 posts)
8. I hate no one,
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 10:33 AM
Feb 22

Most of what I post about Garland comes from reliable sources.

There is no debate about Garland waiting too long to investigate Trump, I got that information from the J6 lead investigator Tim Heaphy and from every member of the J6 committee.

Fani Willis opened up her investigation into Trump on March 16, 2021.

What would it look like right now, today, had not the J6 committee started investigating Trump?
What would it look like if Cassidy Hutchinson had not shamed Merrick Garland into opening up his investigation of Trump?

Why hadn't Garland already talked to Cassidy? The J6 committee was way ahead of DOJ and that usually never happens.

edhopper

(33,616 posts)
11. And appointed Jack Smith
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 10:47 AM
Feb 22

A year and a half later! Not in April or May or June of 2021, when he should have started the Trump investigation, But November of 2022. Saying Garland did not do his job is not hate, it's fact.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,044 posts)
14. Appointing the Special Counsel was NOT the start of the investigation
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 10:57 AM
Feb 22

You don't just appoint a Special Counsel instantly because there seems to be evidence (strong or not) and you think you can get solid evidence if you use a Special Counsel as a baseball bat.

edhopper

(33,616 posts)
21. Like I said
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:10 AM
Feb 22

sing your song somewhere else.

The appointment of Hur came hours after the White House confirmed the discovery of a second set of documents in a garage at Mr. Biden's Delaware residence. Garland said the government first learned about the initial group of documents that were found in an office Mr. Biden used upon leaving the vice presidency in early November, and the FBI began an assessment of potential mishandling of classified information several days later. Garland revealed the documents in Mr. Biden's garage were subsequently discovered on Dec. 20.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-is-robert-hur-special-counsel-biden-documents-investigation/

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,044 posts)
25. So you want to censor me. Repeatedly.
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:15 AM
Feb 22

Hur was appointed after there already was a Special Counsel for tRump documents, so it was an unusual situation.

Further, there was solid evidence at that point in the Biden documents, because of course Biden provided the solid evidence.

But hey, it's easier to call for me to be censored than to deal with facts.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,657 posts)
20. You simply don't know what you're talking about
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:07 AM
Feb 22

And you clearly don’t understand the role, function and justification for appointing a special counsel.

gab13by13

(21,405 posts)
26. Garland is 0 fer 2 in appointing special counsels
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:15 AM
Feb 22

to investigate Democrats. Shouldn't a crime be involved?

Fiendish Thingy

(15,657 posts)
38. Sounds like you don't understand how investigations work either
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:26 AM
Feb 22

You don’t need proof of a crime to investigate , you need probable cause/reasonable suspicion.

You need proof of a crime to indict. (At least enough proof to convince a grand jury)

If an investigation fails to turn up evidence of a crime, and does not seek an indictment, that’s not a failure (assuming everyone did their job properly), it’s a complete, closed investigation.

Happens all the time, outside of media scrutiny,

Nobody keeps a tally of closed investigations as failures except, apparently, you.

republianmushroom

(13,687 posts)
74. True, but some people do.
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 09:31 PM
Feb 22

Merrick Garland Weighed Search of Trump’s Mar-a-Lago for Weeks

Attorney general took his signature deliberative approach to the move; Justice Department asks judge not to unseal affidavit that provided basis for search

https://www.wsj.com/articles/merrick-garland-weighed-search-of-trumps-mar-a-lago-for-weeks-11660601292

getagrip_already

(14,838 posts)
10. Because i dislike cilantro, shouldnt i also dislike garlic?
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 10:47 AM
Feb 22

The various prosecutions have different timeliness for different reasons. You can't draw connections between them.

As for garland, there is simply no excusing his lack of prosecutions. Even white collar crime prosecutions are at the lowest point they've been in decades, save covid. Lower even than tfg.

He hasn't pursued any cases not directly involved with attacking the capitol, or referred by congress for contempt - and then only at 50%.

He hasn't even removed tfg's inspector General who is actively protecting doj criminals from prosecution.

He is acting like tfgs ag. Not bidens. If he had it to do over, I doubt he would have appointed Jack Smith. I'm sure he sees that as a huge mistake.

Ocelot II

(115,858 posts)
15. Yes, but you forget that there is a dead horse that must be beaten.
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 10:59 AM
Feb 22

Garland took too long! (Whack!)
Garland took too long! (Whack!)
Garland took too long! (Whack!)
Garland took too long! (Whack!)
Garland took too long! (Whack!)

There are posts every day from a few who persist in pummeling that equine corpse; there can't be much left of it by now but apparently they haven't noticed. By the way, did you know that Garland took too long? (Whack!) Maybe, maybe not. But that dead horse will remain dead no matter how enthusiastically it is beaten, and the legal process at it exists currently will not accelerate by a nanosecond for all that effort. The beaters of said dead horse might want to focus their energy on actually understanding the process, although all attempts to explain it so far have been drowned out by that whacking sound.

gab13by13

(21,405 posts)
32. Tim Heaphy, lead J6 investigator
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:22 AM
Feb 22

when investigating witnesses, knew whether or not DOJ had talked to them. Tim Heaphy and the rest of the J6 committee stated that DOJ waited too long to investigate Trump, those are not my words. Cassidy Hutchinson shamed DOJ into action, without the J6 committee I dread where we would be at today in holding Trump accountable.

Yikes, that dead horse just kicked again.

Ocelot II

(115,858 posts)
35. Assuming all of this to be true, how does complaining about it constantly
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:24 AM
Feb 22
change anything that's happening now, or cause the process to move any faster?

Blues Heron

(5,944 posts)
48. its a message board - its why they exist, to bitch about shit and see if like minded souls are on the same page
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:39 AM
Feb 22

you are literally on a message board complaining about basic message board behavior

republianmushroom

(13,687 posts)
79. If there is no complaining and ineptness isn't addressed, will get better ?
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 09:54 PM
Feb 22

Or will it get worst and forgotten because there was no interest ?

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
33. The answer is no, but more people will be aware of the ineptness of Garlands justus department. That's a good thing.
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:22 AM
Feb 22

Complaining about it sure as fuck doesn't hurt.

Beastly Boy

(9,436 posts)
50. All I see is the perpetuation of the narrative which is favored by a certain faction on DU
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:42 AM
Feb 22

which doesn't get us beyond the narrative favored by a certain faction of DU. Doesn't make this predetermined narrative any more compelling.

Blues Heron

(5,944 posts)
51. its a bitch sesh, we were asked by the OP specifically to come and bitch, here we are. Doesnt amount to a hill of beans
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:47 AM
Feb 22

to quote bogie in the classic flick

Beastly Boy

(9,436 posts)
86. Sounds about right, but this bitch sesh has been going on for months without any invitations.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 12:10 AM
Feb 23

Which begs a question: why is it still going on without any reasonable justification for it to keep going? Months of beating a dead horse, and not a single rational explanation for this obsession.

It's tiresome, and the absence of any rhyme or reason for it frustrates me. I believe the same is true for the OP. But I agree, the OP's desperate appeal to facts in defense of soundness of judgement is likely to fall on deaf ears.

Beastly Boy

(9,436 posts)
87. No words of wisdom intended.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 12:24 AM
Feb 23

But sticking to facts may indeed be perceived as words of wisdom to those who abandon facts in favor of baseless judgements.

TwilightZone

(25,485 posts)
45. Intentional ignorance is helpful when one starts with conclusions rather than facts.
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:34 AM
Feb 22

Just like with conspiracy theories, it's pretty easy to justify erroneous conclusions when one ignores all evidence that pokes holes in those conclusions. Some posters have even claimed that Garland is intentionally "destroying democracy", ignoring that Jack Smith might be one of the only people capable of saving it, outside of the voters in November, and ignoring that hundreds of the people who were trying to interfere with democracy have been charged and convicted. Blame for everything; credit for nothing.

It's kind of our version of the big lie. Repeat stuff often enough and someone might be convinced. The difference, of course, is that our version doesn't really accomplish anything other than discouraging people (and making us look a bit ignorant), while the right's version is destroying institutions.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,044 posts)
31. If you don't self-identify as some level of Garland/Willis/Bragg hater then you are not being called out
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:22 AM
Feb 22

Please reread the first two sentences of the Original Post. It is possible to have complaints as I do against Garland without being an out-and-out hater. There are many degrees of consternation, frustration, criticism, and disdain between neutral and all-in hater.

Where do you fit on that spectrum? You're not an all-or-nothing black-or-white kind of person, right?

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,044 posts)
43. Likewise, I don't call people who simply disagree with me haters. But further, I know
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:33 AM
Feb 22

... there are degrees of things, gradations, shades of gray, orthogonal dimensions, multiple aspects. Reread the first two sentences of the OP.

But if it is as simple as you seem to write, have at it.

gab13by13

(21,405 posts)
44. It is hard to debate with anyone
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:34 AM
Feb 22

who starts out with a fact that isn't a fact. It is safe to say that Garland waited at least a year and a half before investigating Trump and that is backed up by expert witnesses.

Michigan AG Dana Nessel made a criminal referral to her US Marshall to investigate Michigan's fake electors. She waited 1 year and when DOJ did nothing she opened up the investigation herself. That is why Michigan is prosecuting its fake electors because of DOJ inaction. When Jack Smith took over he subpoenaed information from Michigan.

Beastly Boy

(9,436 posts)
52. Funny you should say this.
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:49 AM
Feb 22

You have been presented with the facts of the Trump investigation time and again, and again, and again. The facts that show DOJ investigating Trump even before Garland was appointed, and continuing non-stop after his appointment.

Now, tell me again how hard it is to debate with anyone who starts out with a fact that isn't a fact. And how hard do you think it is to debate with someone who keeps referring to facts that aren't facts?

Think. Again.

(8,422 posts)
30. Oh, I see...
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:19 AM
Feb 22

...we're supposed to ignore every other move garland has made that resulted in benefitting the gop, got it!

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,044 posts)
36. So you're an all-or-nothing black-or-white kind of person it seems
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:25 AM
Feb 22

Please re-read the first two sentences of the Original Post.

Yes, there are issues.

No, it is not binary yes/no 0/1.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,044 posts)
47. Partisanship is not black-or-white
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:37 AM
Feb 22

As Einstein said, things should be as simple as possible but no simpler.

Yes/no partisanship is obviously too simple. Perhaps you feel the Squad are not Democratic because they do not support Biden all-in on every issue? That would be a similar binary judgment and just as simplistically bogus.

Think. Again.

(8,422 posts)
49. Not similar at all...
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:41 AM
Feb 22

....not supporting all-in on every issue and actively working against are 2 very different things.

gab13by13

(21,405 posts)
39. "Hur was appointed after there already was a Special Counsel for tRump documents, so it was an unusual situation."
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:27 AM
Feb 22

What does that mean? Why a special counsel when a crime wasn't committed? In hindsight it sure looks to me like a sc wasn't warranted, just like a sc wasn't warranted for Mike Pence having classified documents, even though Pence didn't turn in all of his documents, the FBI found another one in his house.

onenote

(42,767 posts)
46. I think its been explained to you that Special Counsels are appointed to investigate whether a crime has been committed
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:36 AM
Feb 22

Sometimes they conclude there was and sometimes they conclude there wasn't.

And a Special Counsel was appointed in the Pence situation because the conflict of interest issue wasn't present as it was where the president of the United States, and a declared candidate for re-election, is the subject of the investigation.

Is this really that hard to understand?

Beastly Boy

(9,436 posts)
54. What is THAT supposed to mean?
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:57 AM
Feb 22

Isn't it the whole purpose of any investigation to determine whether or not a crime was committed? Since when does a mere suggestion that the crime wasn't committed is a legitimate excuse to criticize an investigation that determined that the crime wasn't committed?

BeyondGeography

(39,380 posts)
56. Comparing Garland and Willis seems utterly absurd to me
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 12:03 PM
Feb 22

One has the full resources of the US DOJ to play with, the other is a county DA.

One is a white man, the other a black woman. For relevance, when was the last time a white male US AG was hauled before a judge to explain key dates of his love life and how he might have benefitted financially from it before a case could proceed?

One gets roasted on Twitter, the other receives death threats.

One has a house that has never been vandalized by poitical opponents, the other has had racial epithets spray painted on it.

One is subject to impeachment, something he need not worry about. The other, because she was elected along with a number of other black DA’s, inspired a special recall law that makes her relatively easy to fire if she “gets out over her skis.” And partisan Republicans who control the GA state legislature get to define what that means.

I don’t “hate” Merrick Garland. He’s a good man who’s overly cautious. He also doesn’t have a fraction of the political courage of Fani Willis. Imagine mild-mannered Merrick in her shoes as a county DA sticking his neck out and doing what she has done. I can’t.

gab13by13

(21,405 posts)
60. Nice post, maybe you can answer this question I asked before,
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 12:16 PM
Feb 22

I would never attend a Klan rally,
I would never attend a Federalist Society event.

Why did Merrick Garland monitor 11 Federalist Society events?

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,044 posts)
63. You make some good points, starting with first one
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 12:58 PM
Feb 22

Also, "overly cautious" hits the mark. And Fani Willis is subject to (re)election, so yeah, political courage as well as physical courage.

However, I'm incredulous that Garland hasn't received death threats.

Garland is subject to impeachment, like the Republicant children did with Mayorkis, also a cabinet secretary.

https://www.govtrack.us › congress › bills › 117 › hres743 › text
Text of H.Res. 743 (117th): Impeaching Merrick Brian Garland, Attorney ...
Impeaching Merrick Brian Garland, Attorney General of the United States, for high crimes and misdemeanors. That Merrick Brian Garland, Attorney General, is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors and that the following Articles of Impeachment be exhibited to the United States Senate:
https://thehill.com › homenews › house › 4102156-gop-debates-impeaching-merrick-garland-after-mccarthy-surprise
GOP debates impeaching Merrick Garland after McCarthy surprise
Jul 18, 2023House Republicans are debating whether to focus impeachment efforts on Attorney General Merrick Garland after Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) suggested an inquiry against him, taking some...

BeyondGeography

(39,380 posts)
65. This R House will impeach anything with a D next to it
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 01:11 PM
Feb 22

So point taken. But it would just die in the Senate whereas GA’s law leaves DA’s much more exposed IMO. Kemp has already signaled that he wouldn’t support the removal of Willis (this was prior to NathanGate or whatever you want to call it), which basically tells us she needs to avoid doing anything to get on his bad side if she wants to keep her job. Not to mention the circus she was just exposed to, which could still result in her removal though I find it highly unlikely (fingers crossed).

flying_wahini

(6,651 posts)
58. The fact that there are so many displeased with Garlands foot dragging is a sign that maybe you are
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 12:13 PM
Feb 22

Incorrect in your beliefs that Garland is working as fast as he can.
Yes, some things take time, but you have to admit his timing is slow. Is he really taking the time to get it right? Right for who? or just the old stalling techniques?
The J6 panel investigation things started over a year and a half later. Then he acted.

I think Garland, in order to appear non biased has bent over backwards to give the GOP ample time to stall until after the election. So in that part he DID succeed. Either you want to prosecute or you don’t.
Remember Garland is a federalist. He has kicked the can down the road, and now here we are.
Nothing has been resolved just like the Meuller report. Nello zippo.
Still in limbo. My fear is that it this foot dragging will cost us bigly.

I hope you are correct Bernardo. I really do. I want you to be but it’s hard sometimes with the lack of movement. Hard to tell if Garland is dead or sleeping at this point. The old too little/too late saying comes to mind.

Thank God for Jack Smith.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,044 posts)
59. Your post starts with a false premise
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 12:16 PM
Feb 22

I did NOT say Garland was working as fast as he can.

Please reread the first sentence of the Original Post.

flying_wahini

(6,651 posts)
61. I guess I read it wrong. You say that it takes time but Fani is running circles around them.
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 12:22 PM
Feb 22

It sounded like you’re are just making excuses for Garland to take his time.
We don’t have much time left.
How long do you think this should take?

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,044 posts)
64. Agree, we don't have much time left, before the election. But that's not the final say-so on tRump
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 01:10 PM
Feb 22

It is extremely important that the main trials against tRump (2 Smith, 1 Willis) take place before the election. But it is not absolutely necessary.

Judge Chutkan gets it, as does the DC Appeals Court. Loose Cannon also gets it, but in her case she believes it is best to have her case delayed until after the election and believes that it is important.

Keeping tRump on his losing streak (lost 4 popular votes: 2016, 2018, 2020, pinked 2022) is crucial for democracy.

But even if the verdicts come after the election, they are also crucial. If tRump is convicted, then by A14s3 he is forbidden from taking the office. Which VP gets selected by the courts?

It seems that Smirnov may have shoes to drop on top of tRump.

Ultimately history is already not being kind to loser tRump: rated dead last. The hole he is in will only get deeper.

ananda

(28,876 posts)
67. I don't hate Garland. I just hate his way of thinking about politics...
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 01:22 PM
Feb 22

which causes him to make wrong decisions.

He needs to go.

MorbidButterflyTat

(1,855 posts)
68. This is the reality
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 02:29 PM
Feb 22

Unless someone invents a time machine to go back and change everything, this is now.

I don't understand people who don't comprehend that rushing a trial is a bad idea. He could be acquitted! Imagine the victory lap MAGAts would take if prosecutors weren't prepared, and he skated in September or October. It's not like prosecuting a former "president" happens every day.

Also...this rot is deep, and international. It absolutely includes Putin and who knows who else. Maria Butina happily sacrificed herself to push the "Russian second amendment" to Goober Goopers while laundering rubles through them and possibly -gag- sexing them. The world has seen how stupid MAGAts are. They would absolutely believe Russia has a "second amendment," especially with the cheap Russian honey pot cozying up to them.

That infamous photo taken by Russian (not any American) media five seconds after the oozing sore swore to defend the constitution, where he yuks it up with the other two fat ugly Russians in the Oval Office, for some reason Butina has been cropped out of it. She was there, to the right of them. She's another link nobody talks about anymore, one of many.

When she was shipped off to Russia, she was suddenly a "journalist" and harassed Navalny in his jail cell. I have not forgotten these things! The Mueller prosecutors didn't investigate for months or years to just shrug everything off, despite vocal cynics, paid cable pundits, and arrogant know-it-alls.

Russia has been laundering and bribing these traitors for years, and there's a lot of them THAT WE KNOW OF.

I just can't anymore with this "Garland is weak and we're gonna lose our democracy because of him not doing anything, blah blah, low hanging fruit, not doing it my way...etc." Just NO.



republianmushroom

(13,687 posts)
70. There is more
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 08:23 PM
Feb 22

United States nuclear programs; potential vulnerabilities of the United States and its allies to military attack; and plans for possible retaliation in response to a foreign attack.”
Prosecutors presented evidence that Mr. Trump shared a highly sensitive “plan of attack” against Iran to visitors at his golf club in Bedminster, N.J. in July 2021 — and was recorded on tape describing the material as “highly confidential” and “secret,” while it admitting it had not been declassified. In another incident in September 2021, he shared a top secret military map with a staff member at his political action committee who did not have a security clearance.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/06/09/us/trump-indictment-documents-news

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217986359

National security damage assessment from justsecurity.org

https://www.justsecurity.org/86887/national-security-implications-of-trumps-indictment-a-damage-assessment/

... "Because of the remarkably sensitive nature of the documents the former president retained, and the shockingly insecure locations where they were held and transported (“in a ballroom, a bathroom and shower, an office space, his bedroom, and a storage room”), there are also potentially grave implications for U.S. national security. It is those national security implications, as evidenced in particular by the 31 counts lodged under the Espionage Act (18 U.S.C. § 793(e)), which we briefly lay out here.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217990566

FBI resisted opening probe into Trump's role in Jan. 6 for more than a year
Hours after he was sworn in as attorney general, Merrick Garland and his deputies gathered in a wood-paneled conference room in the Justice Department for a private briefing on the investigation he had promised to make his highest priority: bringing to justice those responsible for the attack on the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.

https://wapo.st/3JkVCbu

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/06/19/fbi-resisted-opening-probe-into-trumps-role-jan-6-more-than-year/

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143089688

See how the DOJ slow-walked and hesitated investigating Trump's coup: Melber breakdown - The Beat

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017838512

It’s not just Mar-a-Lago: Trump charges highlight his New Jersey life
Two of the most vivid scenes in the former president’s indictment take place at his Bedminster golf club, which has not been searched by the FBI

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/27/its-not-just-mar-a-lago-trump-charges-highlight-his-new-jersey-life/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most

TheKentuckian

(25,029 posts)
75. Hate? No, I just don't grasp the adulation and find him dangerously worthless.
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 09:31 PM
Feb 22

The Garland love affair born of Obama trying to sneak anyone across the plate the Republicans would stomach is ridiculous.

A hail mary has been transformed into some icon or something.

He is weak, mealymouthed, deferential to cons, and politically motivated and demotivated at best.

ecstatic

(32,731 posts)
85. The problem is, Garland is still fucking up, unfortunately. We have to beg him to do his job
Thu Feb 22, 2024, 11:53 PM
Feb 22

If we don't say anything, nothing is done. Not a single gop traitor from congress has been investigated or held accountable. And what about the way women are being treated all across the south? And voters? And the Hur debacle? The list goes on and on. He is incompetent. He probably would have done better on the Supreme Court than he's doing as AG.

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