Is it okay to wear a forty year old fox jacket to a

[cachukis]

NYC wedding at the end of this year?
My wife last wore it there thirty years ago, or so.
I don't think people carry eggs or paint in their pockets, but we don't want to roil the observers.

[underpants]

1. I'm here to what people think

Whew tough one. I would expect someone to say something. I’d think it depends on the guests and what you can reasonably expect. Of course, at weddings you never know who the other side of the aisle will have in it.

[spooky3]

42. I'd think OP might be more concerned about offending people (even strangers) who

might not say or do anything, than about getting paint thrown on him/his wife.

[Croney]

2. I personally wouldn't.

[nocoincidences]

3. I wouldn't.

But you have a better read on what the room will be like.

[Sanity Claws]

4. Not really

I haven't seen fur worn anywhere in NYC in years.

[Celerity]

43. shtreimels

[cachukis]

49. Dug.

[JustAnotherGen]

5. Can she pass it off as fake?

I have a faux mink coat.

I will say - I've worn my buck skin coat my dad had made for me 30 years ago in NYC and Philly on uber cold days and never had an issue. Ditto a rabbit hat and gloves.

Note - we grew up eating wild game - and in my dad's family heritage you don't kill what you can't eat - and you make use of every part of that animal that sustained you.

[Deuxcents]

6. I would choose something else.

[Raine]

7. I wouldn't wear it

it's asking for trouble, even though it's old it gives the idea that wearing dead animals is alright.

[DenaliDemocrat]

68. Anyone who griefs someone at a wedding over their

Attire and its impacts on their political beliefs is a fucking asshole. There is a time and a place. A wedding is the bride’s day - not theirs. It’s a really good day to STFU and enjoy the festivities.

[shrike3]

78. That'd be asking too much of some.

[Sky Jewels]

8. I'd donate it to a wildlife rehabilitation group instead.

That's what I did with my grandma's old mink stole.

https://www.bornfreeusa.org/campaigns/fur-trade/fur-for-the-animals/

[Fla Dem]

17. Thanks for posting this information.

I have a mink hat that has to be 50 years old. It was my Mom's so didn't want to get rid of it. However, I totally have no problem donating it to an animal sanctuary to benefit the rescued animals. I'm sure she would agree.

[Disaffected]

18. Excellent Idea!

[efhmc]

94. Thanks for the info. Guess I did not look far enough in the discussion thread.

[Traildogbob]

9. 40 years old

Just tell em it died of natural causes from old age.

[canetoad]

10. No

And then you wont have to worry if someone takes exception to it and tries to embarrass you.

[Ferrets are Cool]

13. This

[Xavier Breath]

15. What I wrote seemed too confrontational

on second glance so I deleted it. I knew the sentiment was right so I should have just left it alone. Thanks for your response.

[LearnedHand]

12. Dear Abby would advise you

that wedding etiquette calls for not doing anything that took the attention off the bride and groom. Given that a wearing a real animal coat could do that, maybe don't wear it?

[obamanut2012]

83. That is a perfect answer

Indeed. And, a winter wedding in NYC calls for a nice wool topcoat anyway.

[shrike3]

109. No offense, but that would depend on what part of the country.

Where I live, nobody would notice. Or care.

[dembotoz]

14. How do you tell a new one from an old one

the bigger the reception the greater the risk?

an ugly confrontation might ruin the evening.

that being said, i have a history of not giving a damn;;....

[Disaffected]

16. Not OK.

Anyhow, why??

[Maru Kitteh]

19. Why?

It just seems gauche.

[cachukis]

20. Learning so much from the responses. My wife is very

reluctant to wear.
She modeled it this evening. Very stylish. Back in the closet.
We are traipsing in the FIDI and actually wouldn't bring it to the wedding, but we are near Chinatown and Little Italy and Tribeca for a couple of days. The highs will be in the 40's.
We live in Florida and while downsizing disposed of much warm clothing.

[claudette]

31. What's the

FIDI?

[cachukis]

33. Financial District. Lower Manhattan.

Wedding in local church. Reception in Brooklyn. Have to cross river. Cold. Fur coat warm. Don't want to offend.
Mostly high brow liberals, but no doubt some sensitives.

[spooky3]

41. OK, but why would you not anticipate cold weather in NYC in December and that fur-wearing might not be wise?

I think it would be as taboo as smoking inside at the reception. Even people who are meat-eaters and leather-wearers often object to fur-wearing because there are so many warm and stylish alternatives, and the methods to obtain that 40 year old fur were cruel.

Buy her an inexpensive cloth coat if necessary. Sounds as if you might travel to other cold places at other times so she would get more use out of it.

Just my opinion.

[obamanut2012]

84. Kohl's are all over Florida, and they have inexpensive coats

As do outlets. Belk often has good deals, too.

Even a wool sweater or a fleecy from Target under a light coat or heavy jacket will work in the city.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

21. Do people object to leather shoes, belts, purses?

[Merlot]

24. Cows aren't farmed for their hides, and are going to be killed anyway.

Many many years ago some farmers tried to raise cows for their hides and found it to not be profitable.

[Raine]

30. Yes, exactly. nt

[Hekate]

40. Early Los Angeles history, post-Spanish rule: cattle were raised for tallow & hides...

Those products were more valuable than the meat, for shipping to the US. The local working men got to eat a lot of beef.

Times change.

[Happy Hoosier]

73. Exactly... I do not object to using furs and leather from animals...

... that are harvested for other purposes. In fact, my feeling is that if we are going to kill animals for our own uses, at least use as much of the animal as is possible.

And it's why I oppose tossing out old furs. Animals DIED to make that fur. Tossing it in the trash seems disrespectful. But don't buy a new one. Make the fur farms go broke.

[Big Blue Marble]

112. Actually, it really is not different.

I avoid leather when possible.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

36. I very much avoid them .

[NoRethugFriends]

44. I do

[NoSheep]

56. what I was thinking. and the menu?

[Voltaire2]

70. I avoid them.

[shrike3]

77. Some animals are more equal than others.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

22. Sure, why not?

[RussellCattle]

50. I'd agree, sure, why not? There are boats that were built out of old growth teak, homes in San Francisco.....

…..built out of lumber from 500 year old redwoods, chess sets carved out of old ivory, old scrimshaw from whale bones and on and on. Should all of these things be hidden or destroyed, or just rendered worthless by modern sensibilities? Wear the coat and, if questioned, explain that buying a new coat supports the market for fur while yours doesn’t.



PAMOETINA

[Merlot]

23. No, because it's not ok to wear it anywhere. Donate it to an animal org

It's not about "the room" and what would be accepted. It's about not wearing fur, period.

[EarnestPutz]

54. Please help me understand why you suggest donating, specifically, to an "animal org"?

I’m in the dark as to why. To what purpose.

[Disaffected]

62. It's for comfort purposes for animals in rehab.

Eg. a comfort "blanket" for kit foxes. Don't know however how well it works.

[EarnestPutz]

96. Thanks for the clarification. I guess my imagination wasn't up to the task. Nice idea.

[Disaffected]

98. Certainly better use than wearing it.

[cachukis]

25. I investigated donating it to animal organizations.

They use it to give to poor people to keep them warm or if it is too shabby to line boxes for animals to keep them warm.
One group sends them to Ukraine to keep the soldiers warm.

[NoSheep]

58. Could you link us to those groups? thanks

[Rhiannon12866]

26. My grandmother offered me an ancient fox stole, which I'm sure even predated her, when she was cleaning out her attic

And I couldn't deal with it - it was attached in front with the two fox heads.

[Ocelot II]

27. My great aunt had a mink stole with heads and little feet. It creeped me out.

[Rhiannon12866]

28. I sure understand! My grandmother's had little fox heads which attached by their mouths in front

I had never seen my grandmother wear it, figure it had been left to her decades before, and, knowing my grandmother, I'm guessing it bothered her, too. I sure don't blame you, that was my reaction, too. It even bothers me when I watch old TV shows when the women yearn for a mink coat.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

51. It's repulsive

"Here, honey...I love you so much I spent a fortune on this little murdered corpse for you to wear around your neck and impress your friends!"

In one of my favorite movies, "Suspicion," Cary Grant gives his young maid a full body fox corpse as a gift and she swoons over it. The head, the tail, the whole damn thing.

Men telling and selling women what they want and promoting envy among them. It's insidious and creepy.

[Rhiannon12866]

53. I even saw an old Bewitched episode where Samantha and a woman she wanted to impress wanted mink coats!

That was considered the ultimate status symbol back in the day! I agree that it's as cruel and unacceptable as anything! I'm so grateful that women came to their senses, if I wanted a mink or chinchilla (I've seen pictures), it would have to be as a pet, they are so adorable. How could anyone ever want to slaughter them?!

[MorbidButterflyTat]

110. Oh yeah...

Lucy and Ethel, so many movies, "That Touch of Mink," with Doris Day (that movie is funny, tho) just too many to think of and list! It was ridiculous!

I would think men wrote those scripts, probably in cahoots with the fur industry. Tell women what they want then pit them against each other, they'll nag their husbands til they get one. OMG, that's so bad!

I'm with you. I don't want to understand people capable of that kind of cruelty.

[Rhiannon12866]

111. I sometimes watch old TV shows late at night and I cringe whenever I see women begging for mink coats

Lucy and Ethel go back far enough and I remember seeing "Missy" on Hazel thinking she was getting one, but Samanntha on Bewitched surprised me. I can't imagine that no one in those days even thought of that unspeakable cruelty.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

115. Agree.

Samantha was a fool. She could go anywhere, and do anything, but she gives up her identity for sexist, over bearing, unattractive Darren? Who demands she stop using her witchcraft unless it somehow benefits him?

That's how you know, men wrote those scripts.

Jeannie was the same. Oh I bet 1960s men just loved scantily clad blond cutie Jeannie calling Tony "master" and doing whatever he wanted, then poof! Back in the bottle with her.

Ugh...now I'm off on another tangent!

[Rhiannon12866]

116. Excellent point, and those shows are all still shown in syndication today, but they couldn't get away with those today

One show that I've seen that actually exposed the cruelty was Leave It to Beaver, which was so long ago that I never saw it first run. Beaver and Wally were always looking for ways to make money and a friend told Beaver about a company that paid for live frogs. So Beaver started collecting frogs and of course he named them all. But when he learned what his frogs' fate would be, he let them all go.

[debm55]

71. No.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

35. my mom had something with a little head on one end and feet on the other, that wrapped around the neck

it was very aspirational for women to want a fur coat or stole back then.

[NBachers]

61. Yeah, my gramma had one like that. The mouth opened as a spring clip to bite down on the other end and hold it in place

As kids, we were fascinated by it.

There was a point in human history where wearing animal fur clothes in cold weather helped ensure our survival. It's not necessary anymore.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

117. I just remembered what animal it was... a little fox.

[Hekate]

46. I remember encountering one of those when I was a very small child in early 1950s SoCal...

No memory of who the lady was, but the object both fascinated and repelled me. There was something about that little face at one end and the little feet at the other that put me off.

The feel of fur was lovely in other contexts, I admit, though an entire coat was something only movie stars wore — and they were apparently exempt from the SoCal climate.

Times change, as I noted in my post about the hides and tallow of cattle. When I was an adult the conservation movement and anti-fur movement clashed into making the wearing of exotic animal furs entirely socially unacceptable. Advice columnists like Dear Abby and Miss Manners dealt with queries from youngish women who’d inherited a gorgeous garment from a grandmother or great-aunt — what to do with something valuable and beautiful that could not be worn without causing extreme unwanted attention?

[Sanity Claws]

102. I've seen those stoles

Absolutely awful.

[Donkees]

66. I donated one of those to Pine Ridge Reservation for pow-wow regalia

[Rhiannon12866]

67. I wish you'd been there to suggest that to my grandmother, she spent the winter in Arizona

And when my Dad and I visited we went to a Native American festival.

[Kennah]

29. Forty year old fox must have been living right

[MorbidButterflyTat]

47. Oh

[Alice Kramden]

32. No

The wearer telegraphs that they are fine with animal cruelty - not a good message, not a good look

[IcyPeas]

34. Please no.

If I was at a wedding I wouldn't want to be having thoughts of animals being skinned. It's just barbaric.

Please no. 🙏

[Bobstandard]

37. The rule is it's ok if it's 18 below or colder

And you live in Canada or Alaska and have to five three miles to the event, (25 miles if going by snowmobile.) The location and traveling other than by car is important. You have to give other wild animals a fair shot at you.

[cachukis]

38. A starting point. I like it.

[Happy Hoosier]

39. I'd never buy a new one...

… but I don’t see a problem with wearing an old fur. You can’t bring the dead foxes back to life.

FWIW, I buy and use old tattered fur coats for crafting all the time. I never buy new furs.

[Coventina]

45. Fur coats on people are gauche. n/t

[Scrivener7]

87. This. In the NYC financial district where

the OP is going, they were everywhere in the 80s. Now, not so much.

Everything else about wearing it aside.

[Sanity Claws]

104. Yes. Raccoon coats were big in the 1980s

I thought they looked bulky and ugly.
The winters are not as cold as they used to be in NYC.

[cachukis]

48. Tremendous exposure to people's sensitivity to

my wife's dilemma. I have not told her of my query here.
She is very reluctant to wear this beautiful jacket because she doesn't want to appear uncaring of the fox's plight.
She bought it in the early 80's and wore it last on a visit of ours to NYC in the early 90's. She modeled it this evening and has returned it to the closet. It was very stylish.

I was curious for the wisdom of my peers here.

It is late and I have a morning tee time.
Thanks for your insight.

[NoSheep]

57. A morning tee time?

this feels weird

[obamanut2012]

85. Why is a morning tee time weird?

It's the best tee time to have, especially in FL.

[cachukis]

91. Exactly. Just walked 9 and passed through a

foursome and a twosome. At 10 the foursome on the tee said they were behind a slow foursome. Came home for lunch. 42 from the whites.
Temp at tee off was 47°. 9:40 . Finished 9 at 11:00.
The course is run by city. $75.00 a year gives discounts and free rounds.
8 minutes from where I live. $32.00 for 18 with a cart. Two of my normal group had knee issues and the other had kids coming in for holidays. Had to play or lose tee time.

[obamanut2012]

106. I used to live in SOFL

I wouldn't pay past a certain time in the morning, unless it was a quick nine on the little par 3 by us in the evening. Basically a pitch and putt course -- I would play with my hickory clubs!

[cachukis]

107. I started out with wooden shafts from my

grandfather. Don't remember the wood. A friend gave me an hickory 5 iron and I used it a few times. Hit it 150. Interesting feel.

[obamanut2012]

108. Nice! Mine are mainly estate sale finds that I fixed up

[shrike3]

89. If she feels uncomfortable wearing it, that's another thing entirely.

I myself don't care what people think. But if it would cause her psychological pain to wear it, maybe she should just wear something else.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

52. Curious...

Why would your wife want to wear an old coat of any kind to a wedding? I would imagine a 40 year old corpse must be fairly moldy if not totally decomposed by now.

There are lots of beautiful alternatives to fur. "Roiling observers," comes across as really insensitive but you probably knew that.

[NoSheep]

55. I see your dilemma. What's on the menu at the wedding feast? Is everyone vegan?

[NoSheep]

59. I finally got in touch with my inner self and wonder if you have to ask, isn't the answer no?

[jcgoldie]

60. is this about fox news

I wouldn't wear a coat advertising that shit anywhere.

[littlemissmartypants]

63. I wouldn't. It's dated, so not really in fashion.

Especially since natural fur is not the status symbol it used to be. Wearing it could mark her as out of touch and insensitive plus it would likely break the 'don't upstage the bride' rule.

Calling attention to and being remembered for the wrong reasons is what she could risk accomplishing.

The time of the wedding is also a factor. Is it before 4 pm or after? This one factor influences the proper attire rule.

It's important to try and adhere to the wedding's dress code which is established by the bride.

Here's a guide from The Knot a wedding magazine.

https://www.theknot.com/content/formal-wedding-attire

Here's a What Not to Wear to a Wedding article. It includes the don't outshine* the wedding party caveat.

https://www.dressforthewedding.com/wedding-guest-attire-guidelines/

You never want to outshine the couple. Try to read the tone of the invitation to get a glimpse into the style of the wedding.

https://www.dressforthewedding.com/wedding-guest-attire-guidelines/


*in a "good" way and/or a "bad" way

Queen Elizabeth (mother of Elizabeth II) wearing a fox fur in 1927
https://weheartvintage.co/2013/09/24/strange-vintage-trends-fox-furs/


Bustown Modern just sold this cropped jacket, made of arctic fox fur. (Courtesy of Bustown Modern)
https://www.collectorsweekly.com/articles/should-you-feel-guilty-about-wearing-vintage-fur/
From...
Should You Feel Guilty About Wearing Vintage Fur?
By Lisa Hix — March 7th, 2013


♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡
I hope you have fun and maybe it won't be too cold that day. Then having an arm wrapped around her from her sweetheart will be all she needs to keep her warm.
❤️pants

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

64. I had a New Zealand opossum coat

That my mum gave me when I was in uni. I hardly wore it, and ended up giving it back to her a few years ago because it was just...wrong to keep it.

Now I realize... My brother has no use for it and his wife is vegan. That means I'll be getting that coat back, and Mum's personal furs, too, when she passes. Argh.

For now, they're not my problem. I'll probably sell them off, because the climate here dictates putting them in storage for most of the year. Why pay that for something I don't want in the first place?

[Takket]

65. No. Get grid if it.

[Happy Hoosier]

72. I disagree.

You can't save the foxes by destroying their furs. In fact, although I oppose fur farming, I think we have a duty to try and at least make their deaths serve SOME purpose. I dunno... throwing their furs into the trash seems... disrespectful to me?

I wish trade in new furs was not permitted, except for animals already harvested for food.

[Fla Dem]

75. Yes donate to a wildlife rescue group.

See Sky Jewel's post #8 above

https://www.bornfreeusa.org/campaigns/fur-trade/fur-for-the-animals/

[llmart]

69. Absolutely not!

But that's just my animal-loving opinion. I won't even eat in a restaurant that has those taxidermy deer or other heads on the walls. I'd probably upchuck my meal if I had to sit there looking at dead animal heads glaring at me.

I believe it was Maya Angelou who said, "You do the best you can with what you know, but when you know better, do better." As humans we are supposed to be evolving, though I highly doubt that some of us are (I'm looking at you, MAGAts).

[Happy Hoosier]

74. I have a chess set made from elephant ivory.

My Dad bought it back in the 50's when he was doing an "Around the World" cruise when he was in the Navy.

I am a bit horrified and saddened by that. But I'll never get rid of it, and I do display it. I'd NEVER buy a new one, but an elephant died for that chess set. We can't bring them back, but we can appreciate the beauty of what was made.

My Dad always expressed regret and guilt about that. But I can't see anything positive about tossing the set away like it's garbage.

[shrike3]

76. I wear fur, which has gotten me castigated more than once on DU.

But that's fine, people have their opinions. Question on where y'all are going: is it a small, intimate wedding? And if you're indoors, how long is she going to be wearing the coat? Wouldn't it be put away in coat check? Would there be paint and protestors at coat check? Would most guests even be aware she wore fur, given she won't be wearing it to dine or dance?

That said, you know the atmosphere in New York better than I do. I'm in the Midwest and NOBODY cares if I wear my 20-year-old coat. In fact, people are usually envious. It looks warm and it is. I have never had a problem where I live. However, there are parts of the country where I wouldn't wear it, given prevailing opinion. Life is too short for that kind of hassle.

[snowybirdie]

79. I can only relate

that 30 years ago, I was on business in NYC in winter. Came from Chicago. Wore my warm Beaver coat I was told everywhere how inappropriate it was by many. Don't think its changed much. It was the beginning of the anti fur movement.

[Sal_NV]

80. I don't think its appropriate, but I may be a bit biased because I have a pet fox who is the cutest animal I've ever had

the pleasure of taking care of.

[Irish_Dem]

81. It's the bride and groom's day. Why wear something that might cause a ruckus?

Whether it is politically or socially correct to wear the coat is not the point.

It might offend others and it is not appropriate to possibly stir up trouble at a formal social event
which is someone else's special day.

If your wife wants to wear it she should choose a less formal occasion and then try it.

[shrike3]

86. If it's indoors, how long will she actually be wearing the jacket?

If there's a coat room, she might just drop it off and other guests might not even know she wore fur.

Though I live in a very different environment. Large metropolitan area in the Midwest and nobody says a word about fur around here. Then again, it gets COLD.

[obamanut2012]

82. Do what you want, of course, but I would not wear it

And, I honestly judge folks who do wear obvious real fur coats, especially older ones, because teh animals were treated even more horrifically then.

[Niagara]

88. For the wedding, I would substitute a shawl for the vintage fox fur

Consumers can order elegant evening dress shawls from Amazon that aren't too expensive.

There's sheer, bling with metallics and solids. There's most likely other options out there online and in other retail stores as well.

I would definitely go with a dressy shawl to wear at the wedding.

Hope this helps!

[Nanuke]

90. I screamed in church.

In the 60s when I was five, my family was in church. When the lady in front of us turned to great us with the traditional “Peace be with you.” ritual, I caught a glimpse of the dead fox head and claws and hysterically screamed, cried, and acted out. Mom had to take me out of the sanctuary.

[efhmc]

92. Sorry to butt in but what do you do with old furs? I have a cedar chest of them I inherited. Is there any good I can

achieve with them?

[MorbidButterflyTat]

114. PETA can help

"Your old furs could save someone’s life!

Donating your fur coat can help not only our furry friends but also humans. The vast majority of furs that PETA receives are donated to homeless people—the only humans with any excuse to wear fur. Every year, we hold a few “fur kitchens” at homeless shelters around the U.S., and we’ve even shipped hundreds of furs to help warm refugees freezing in Afghanistan and Iraq.

For residents of the U.S.:
To make your tax-deductible fur donation, simply mail your unwanted furs to the address below.

Attn.: Fur Campaign
PETA
501 Front St.
Norfolk, VA 23510"

More info and suggestions at link:

https://www.peta.org/donate/ways-to-support-peta/gifts-of-property/donate-fur/#:~:text=Your%20old%20furs%20could%20save,any%20excuse%20to%20wear%20fur.

[efhmc]

119. Thank you.

[The Blue Flower]

93. Is it one of those with the heads intact?

Those creep me out in the worst way. Haven't seen one in years, thank goodness.

[cachukis]

95. No. It is white with a warm turnup collar.

[Oopsie Daisy]

97. Sure. If it's just a finished collar without a tail, legs, head and a mouth that clamps it in place *

* and if she likes it, then that's what's important. Not what other people think. (And if any one asks, she can say "no, it's fake... but it looks real, doesn't it?&quot

[CTyankee]

99. I still have my mother's mink stole that I inherited. Nobody would want it nor could I make something out of it.

It just hangs in my closet.

[NameAlreadyTaken]

100. Yes if the fox is a consenting adult.

[Ocelot II]

101. A jacket made from 40-year-old foxes might look a bit rough.

Seriously, though, it's probably better not to wear it.

[walkingman]

103. I think it would be beautiful. Go for it!

[Chainfire]

105. If you don't wear it will it bring the fox back?

If you want to wear it, wear it. If someone raises an eyebrow, tell them it is faux fox fur, and admonish them for not being able to tell the difference.

At my age, I quit caring what people think about my habits.

[Big Blue Marble]

113. Do not wear it.

That would only validate the wearing of fur, which we understand now is horrible.

Many years ago, as I was preparing for my first year in college. I purchased a
fox fur hat and proudly wore it for special occasions. Only a few years later,
I regretted ever buying it, but was never sure what to do with it. I still have
it and never worn it again. Now I am a vegetarian who never wears leather.

[cachukis]

118. Thank you all for your comments and insight.

Had thought the issue was past and no one would have thought anything of it. The younger people I consulted with did not recall seeing a fur coat.
There will be many in their twenties at the wedding, but many parents as well.

We are not into offending.