Promoting a Palestine from the River to the Sea (even if not sure which river and which sea)

[question everything]

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016369553

This concept will clearly eliminate Israel. The promoters do not detail what will happen to the current Israelis but they really do not want to be bothered by details, see above.

But we can envision a Palestine "from the River to the Sea" looking at Gaza which became independent in 2006.

The election that led to Hamas taking over Gaza - WaPo

(snip)

A core part of this talking point lies in what happened close to two decades ago. In 2006, the Palestinian political entity operating in the West Bank and Gaza staged elections. Little did observers know that it would be the last vote allowed by the Palestinian Authority, led then, as it is now, by President Mahmoud Abbas. The vote took place in the aftermath of a turbulent series of events: the fiery years of the second intifada, the death of longtime Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, and the 2005 Israeli withdrawal of troops and settlers from the Gaza Strip.

The election yielded a shock victory for Hamas, which won the most seats with some 44 percent of the vote. Lara Friedman, president of the Foundation for Middle East Peace, which advocates for rapprochement and peace between Israelis and Palestinians, recently observed that in no single district in Gaza did Hamas win a majority of votes.

(snip)

“Mostly, they were voting for opposition and voting against Fatah — against corruption, against nepotism, against the failure of the peace process, and against the lack of leadership,” Mustafa Barghouti, an outspoken, independent Palestinian politician then and now, told CNN at the time.

That analysis was echoed by a conspicuous onlooker. President George W. Bush had pushed for Palestinian elections, in part as an outgrowth of his administration’s ideological zeal for spreading democracy in the Middle East through whatever means necessary. As Hamas’s victory became clear, Bush said the vote reflected Palestinians’ disenchantment with their prevailing leadership, who had been elected a decade prior in the wake of the signing of the Oslo accords.

More..
free
https://wapo.st/3RkpFDq

What, then, happened after the elections? This report is from the Human Rights Watch from June 2007

Gaza: Armed Palestinian Groups Commit Grave Crimes

During recent fighting in the Gaza Strip, armed Palestinian groups have committed serious violations of international humanitarian law, in some cases amounting to war crimes, Human Rights Watch said today.

In internal Palestinian fighting over the last three days, both Fatah and Hamas military forces have summarily executed captives, killed people not involved in hostilities, and engaged in gun battles with one another inside and near Palestinian hospitals. On Saturday, armed Palestinians from Islamic Jihad and the Fatah-affiliated Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade used a vehicle with a “TV” insignia to attack an Israeli military position on the border with Gaza.

(snip)

On Sunday, Hamas military forces captured 28-year-old Muhammad Swairki, a cook for President Mahmoud Abbas’s presidential guard, and executed him by throwing him to his death, with his hands and legs tied, from a 15-story apartment building in Gaza City. Later that night, Fatah military forces shot and captured Muhammad al-Ra’fati, a Hamas supporter and mosque preacher, and threw him from a Gaza City high-rise apartment building. On Monday, Hamas military forces attacked the home in Beit Lahiya of Jamal Abu al-Jadiyan, a senior Fatah official, captured him, and executed him on the street with multiple gunshots. On Tuesday, there were reports of additional killings of individuals not involved in hostilities.

In addition, Fatah and Hamas forces engaged in battles in and around two Gaza Strip hospitals on Monday. After Hamas fighters killed Fatah intelligence officer Yasir Bakar, Fatah gunmen began firing mortars and rocket-propelled grenades at Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, drawing Hamas fire from inside the building, killing one Hamas and one Fatah fighter. At a hospital in Beit Hanun, three family members with ties to Fatah, `Id al-Masri and his sons, Farij and Ibrahim, were killed, and others wounded. Hospital officials reported that the three were being treated for injuries sustained earlier. One was reportedly shot at close range.

More..

https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes

This is not a whatabout. This is a realistic vision of what will take place in the "concept" of From the River to the Sea.

Back to my earlier comment: what will happen to the Israelis currently residing in the area by the sea?

We know what happened in one day

Brutality of Hamas attack seen at Israel morgue

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/30/morgue-burial-israel-hamas-attack-pkg-sidner-lead-vpx.cnn

So, go ahead, keep chanting for a "Free Palestine" but, if you care, and dare, read what you are promoting.

[enid602]

1. Freedom

Freedom’s not so bad. Israeli’s seem to enjoy it.

[sarisataka]

7. Do you believe a Palestinian state

Under Hamas would see the same freedoms as Israel? Honestly?

[redqueen]

8. Hamas wouldn't be in power without help from likud

Hamas hasn't allowed elections in over a decade.

It stands to reason that without Israel's interference Hamas will cease to be an issue

[sarisataka]

9. That is an assumption not supported by evidence

Hamas is the defacto government of Gaza. I have seen no calls, resolutions or demands for Hamas to give up power. The closest was from the Palestinian Authority telling Hamas they should return to the fold, so to speak, and rejoin the PA with Fatah in control.

Until there is an inkling of a plan we should assume Hamas will be the rulers of Gaza.

[DemocraticPatriot]

2. Of course, none of that justifies the number of women and children

who are being killed or starved in Gaza at this time....


most of them didn't have a vote in 2007.....


There are no 'good guys' in this war--- but there ARE innocent people who are being killed,
on both sides of the border...

[TheKentuckian]

3. Creating a radical theocratic terrorist state of any dimensions is unwise

Seemingly necessary but dangerously likely to back fire at great sacrifice to make it, cope with it, and deal with the aftermath of it.

The only thing is there is no one to take any plausible yes for an answer.

[elias7]

5. You really have this wrong

No one on this site WANTED Israel to kill Palestinian civilians - show me a link please -

However, it would appear from many polls and interviews I have seen that the majority of Gazans do in fact support Hamas.

We can disagree about many aspects of this conflict, but try not to misrepresent what you have read from an opposing viewpoint. You are projecting somewhat.

[Cha]

13. You're WRONG.

[mopinko]

6. so y is no one talking about elections?

i realize now is not the moment. but i cant help wondering what wd happen if they put a 2 state plan to a referendum.
but elections for the citizens of gaza seems like a path to me…

[Johnny2X2X]

11. It's really complex

And there are few black and white issues. Hamas rules Gaza with an iron fist, the people there will never know freedom with Hamas ruling them. And yes, they did elect Hamas and most still support Hamas.

Doesn't mean Israel is perfect, I think Bibi is a deranged fascist. But it's not as simple as some slogan about freeing Palestine.

[question everything]

12. Of course Israel is not perfect. And most Israelis would be the first to point this out

If you have not followed the stories, as soon as Metanyahu formed the right wing government Israelis took to the streets, protesting every single Saturday until.... October 7.

But try to protest in Gaza, or in Cairo, or in Riyadh, or Tehran and you will end up in jail. At best.

The sad thing about Gaza is that it could have been a gem, a tourist destination, a tax free financial center, instead the Gazans have been living in misery.