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cyclonefence

(4,483 posts)
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 02:01 PM Nov 2023

Grammar nazis can't help them(our)selves

From a column in last Sunday's Philadelphia Inquirer, by regular columnist The Grammarian:

A new study in the Journal of Neurolinguistics from researchers at the University of Birmingham found that when certain people come across grammar errors, their bodies respond physically.

Heart rates change. Stress increases. Bad grammar activates the part of our nervous system that provokes the fight-or-flight impulse we get when being chased ... like by a tiger. All of that happens when we encounter someone breaking grammar rules. To some of us, it can feel like an attack.


Interestingly, we don't respond so violently when the errors are made by a non-native speaker/writer or someone with an accent (Polish, in the study).

So there's a scientific explanation for why bad grammar makes us angry. That's the good news.

The bad news: It's biology. It's instinct. It's the tiger that won't stop chasing us.

And there's nothing we can do about it.

55 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Grammar nazis can't help them(our)selves (Original Post) cyclonefence Nov 2023 OP
I have managed to curb the instinct to correct people Bettie Nov 2023 #1
Ditto. But I had to stop taking on interns working on a thesis.. So many in recent years can NOT hlthe2b Nov 2023 #9
I resist correcting folks on DU but zuul Nov 2023 #33
This JIVES with my experience maxsolomon Nov 2023 #2
That's one of my triggers! nuxvomica Nov 2023 #36
link Celerity Nov 2023 #3
Thank you! cyclonefence Nov 2023 #7
yw Celerity Nov 2023 #10
You might want to correct the errors in the OP. NCIndie Nov 2023 #4
Word Crimes TheBlackAdder Nov 2023 #47
Oh dear sweet baby Jesus cyclonefence Nov 2023 #48
Sometimes when the error is particularly egregious, I can't breath. Maru Kitteh Nov 2023 #5
Its okey,,, yuul get through thi's. Hermit-The-Prog Nov 2023 #22
That's not bad grammar. You just need to fix your computer keyboard. Wonder Why Nov 2023 #32
Since I'm Polish... MiHale Nov 2023 #6
Sometimes, my voice surprises me and spontaneously produces a Polish inflection. John1956PA Nov 2023 #30
Ya, try mixing it with... MiHale Nov 2023 #37
Same here. ChazInAz Nov 2023 #38
I accept poor grammar from regular folks, though my brain rolls in my skull. LakeArenal Nov 2023 #8
HAHAHAHAHA!!! elleng Nov 2023 #11
A grammar nazi to the end! nocoincidences Nov 2023 #12
It makes me... 2naSalit Nov 2023 #13
Me too. But I also stop trying to understand the content - get sidetracked by the errors. erronis Nov 2023 #15
I was a spelling nazi when I grew up as the the first book I read as a little Aspie (terrorist) LiberalArkie Nov 2023 #14
Fellow Aspie! ChazInAz Nov 2023 #16
I am glad I am over the correcting everything. Trying to explain to people what a dictionary was LiberalArkie Nov 2023 #24
A comment from several years ago said we should have grammar Eisenhowers. keithbvadu2 Nov 2023 #17
I read that too... Backseat Driver Nov 2023 #18
Poor grammar is everywhere KT2000 Nov 2023 #19
James Joyce could get away with those devices. John1956PA Nov 2023 #31
I shouldn't pick on one example, but this just landed in my Inbox erronis Nov 2023 #20
Yow! DavidDvorkin Nov 2023 #25
I have learned some patience... flor-de-jasmim Nov 2023 #21
Years ago, I had a dear neighbor who said... 3catwoman3 Nov 2023 #43
Nobody is born a Grammar Nazi. They have to be carefully trained. hunter Nov 2023 #23
I like that - sounds a bit like a phrase from South Pacific... erronis Nov 2023 #34
That explains it! I really do become irrationally annoyed by bad grammar Ocelot II Nov 2023 #26
You might enjoy this masterpiece attributed to a 6 yr old... 3catwoman3 Nov 2023 #44
Replying to my own OP is probably rude cyclonefence Nov 2023 #27
Agree! And diagramming sentences is what our AI overlords can do very well. erronis Nov 2023 #35
There, their, and they're. Kingofalldems Nov 2023 #28
I've done a lot of copyediting over my career. greatauntoftriplets Nov 2023 #29
It's a generational thing! WarGamer Nov 2023 #39
Sometimes, people just need to be politely told Polybius Nov 2023 #40
I've pencil lines under misspelled words or incorrect useage in library books kskiska Nov 2023 #41
Oh my, I'm not the only one! IL Dem Nov 2023 #45
I could recognize books my father had borrowed from our public library cyclonefence Nov 2023 #49
What an interesting thread. 3catwoman3 Nov 2023 #42
A kind friend once pointed out to me cyclonefence Nov 2023 #50
Sum people edhopper Nov 2023 #46
Ve vill crush zoes zat cannot do ze gut grammar mit ze panzers! Wonder Why Nov 2023 #51
i may be a language god(little grammer test) too dyslexic to get picky. pansypoo53219 Nov 2023 #52
I fear I fall in the grammar Nazi zone.. northoftheborder Nov 2023 #53
Ode To Spell Check - I love this. 3catwoman3 Nov 2023 #54
I'm going to suggest we call ourselves grammar... 3catwoman3 Nov 2023 #55

Bettie

(16,124 posts)
1. I have managed to curb the instinct to correct people
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 02:04 PM
Nov 2023

unless I am asked to proofread something.

But it is really hard to resist.

hlthe2b

(102,357 posts)
9. Ditto. But I had to stop taking on interns working on a thesis.. So many in recent years can NOT
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 02:14 PM
Nov 2023

write, spell, or use proper grammar. I was spending all my time editing the entire document to a shade of red. I'd give it back with the edits, it would come back again with a mere 1% improvement.

I do make my share of grammar, spelling, and general writing construction mistakes but I have never shown a formal document to anyone before at least a few major proofing sessions.

Now that I no longer feel responsible, I can ignore a lot. Still, some mistakes are more difficult to ignore than others (e.g., using "me" instead of "I" as the subject noun of a sentence). But, I would hope not to be so rude as to embarrass someone for a minor mistake in spelling or grammar. That is especially true if I know that English is someone's second language.

zuul

(14,628 posts)
33. I resist correcting folks on DU but
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 06:13 PM
Nov 2023

some people here write such nonsensical garbage that I cannot look at it. I have learned to put those handful of people on ignore. I'm sure they're nice folks, but I feel like I might puke when I read sentence after sentence with horrible grammar and a bunch of misspelled words. I just can't do it.

nuxvomica

(12,441 posts)
36. That's one of my triggers!
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 07:04 PM
Nov 2023

The others are usage of "who/whom" and "laid/lay". Just recently, I saw a post headline that said a man "laid dying" and it was all I could do to keep myself from replying to it with a correction. But it wasn't the poster's fault; that was the published headline. And the text of the article actually had "lay dying" so it wasn't the reporter's fault either.

cyclonefence

(4,483 posts)
48. Oh dear sweet baby Jesus
Wed Nov 29, 2023, 02:58 PM
Nov 2023

Yet another reason to worship at the altar of Weird Al.

Thank you, Black Adder. You have made my day.

Maru Kitteh

(28,342 posts)
5. Sometimes when the error is particularly egregious, I can't breath.
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 02:10 PM
Nov 2023

Okay it’s more of a spelling error, but the reaction is quite physical.


For the love of Mike people, you take a single breath.
You breathe in and out.
I really need you to remember this!


MiHale

(9,775 posts)
6. Since I'm Polish...
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 02:10 PM
Nov 2023

Maybe I should put a disclaimer at the beginning of each post that I’m writing in a Polish accent.
I foolishly put my disclaimer in my signature line.

John1956PA

(2,656 posts)
30. Sometimes, my voice surprises me and spontaneously produces a Polish inflection.
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 04:47 PM
Nov 2023

There is no escaping my Polish roots, not that I want to.

ON EDIT: After four hours, I noticed that I originally typed "infection" instead of "inflection." See, my Polish nature reveals itself again! Just joking, I worked overnight and was tired out when I posted my reply.

ChazInAz

(2,572 posts)
38. Same here.
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 08:50 PM
Nov 2023

Hungarian born. We grew up bilingual after a fashion, our mother being Welsh. When we emigrated to America in 1956, our father insisted that we kids speak only English. I've lost all my Magyarok. Took a long time to lose the accent, which sounded like Bela Lugosi trying to impersonate Dylan Thomas!
When I'm bone tired or really angry, it suddenly pops out...startling everyone around me. Gods know why it's still lurking like that when the language it belongs to has evaporated.

LakeArenal

(28,845 posts)
8. I accept poor grammar from regular folks, though my brain rolls in my skull.
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 02:14 PM
Nov 2023

However, when the media, politicians and pundits use poor grammar, I yell,
“ARGH”!!!

Particularly when I have heard Realtors call themselves ReeLaTors….

Please, media learn the difference between number and amount and the difference between fewer and less.

Thanks.

elleng

(131,102 posts)
11. HAHAHAHAHA!!!
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 02:19 PM
Nov 2023

'INCREDIBLE' does it to me, but not too 'severely.'
Love to see THIS exists: Neurolinguistics

nocoincidences

(2,229 posts)
12. A grammar nazi to the end!
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 02:24 PM
Nov 2023

French grammarian Dominique Bouhours's last words were:

"I am about to -- or I am going to -- die: either expression is correct."

2naSalit

(86,775 posts)
13. It makes me...
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 02:27 PM
Nov 2023

Reread the word or phrase over and over to try and get the intended meaning, same with punctuation. I try to correct my errors when I see them after posting. I guess that's why people asked me to proof their writing when I was in college. It was interesting when working with someone for whom English was a second or third language. Their first language always interested me. My best friend had me proof her work all the time, English being her third language, her first language lacking elements of English making translation/transposing challenging.

I learned, also, that I'm dyslexic.

English, I have learned, is messy, steals from other languages all the time and usually ends up breaking its own rules regularly. But some of us are rules keepers, it's in our nature for some reason.

I have also learned to keep it to myself ...in silent anguish most of the time.



erronis

(15,328 posts)
15. Me too. But I also stop trying to understand the content - get sidetracked by the errors.
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 02:36 PM
Nov 2023

I need to learn to "let it go."

LiberalArkie

(15,728 posts)
14. I was a spelling nazi when I grew up as the the first book I read as a little Aspie (terrorist)
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 02:28 PM
Nov 2023

was Websters Dictionary and in Junior High Encyclopedia Britannica.

Now at 75 my spelling is atrocious, almost to the point of being like my young neighbors.

And still they ask me how do you spell antidisestablishmentarianism, and I rattle it off.

ChazInAz

(2,572 posts)
16. Fellow Aspie!
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 02:50 PM
Nov 2023

Britannica was my best friend as a kid. My parents bought a set, as well as a set of The Book of Knowledge for young readers as soon as we settled into the American Midwest in 1956. Devoured and internalized them. That's probably why I no longer remember much of my native Hungarian. And why I'm a grammar fascist!

LiberalArkie

(15,728 posts)
24. I am glad I am over the correcting everything. Trying to explain to people what a dictionary was
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 03:46 PM
Nov 2023

was difficult. I am glad that is built into everything now. I guess my Britannica reading did help when the search engines came out. Now I am bugged by "What is the capital of Idaho".
TYPE IN THE SEARCH BAR WHAT IS THE CAPITAL OF IDAHO.
Oh.
Well, what is a search bar?
my phone accidentally drops the call..

I think Aspies are just the natural evolution and if that is the case, then the world population would drop also.

Backseat Driver

(4,394 posts)
18. I read that too...
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 03:03 PM
Nov 2023

I guess I must have been traumatized by the criticism of my spoken grammar by a Brownie leader. She told me that people would consider me uneducated if I used bad grammar. Forevermore, I have never said "I seen..." and guard against other imperfect grammar, spelling, and punctuation. Diagramming the parts of speech in a sentence on the blackboard was stressful and competitive "flight or fight" team sport fun--NOT!

KT2000

(20,587 posts)
19. Poor grammar is everywhere
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 03:04 PM
Nov 2023

There is a new reaction to bad grammar too. Now we have to ask ourselves if it is an auto-correct mistake or poorly educated writer.

I just proofread work from a writer who liked to use archaic terminology and poor punctuation. I thought I was going to have a stroke.

erronis

(15,328 posts)
20. I shouldn't pick on one example, but this just landed in my Inbox
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 03:10 PM
Nov 2023
If you are interested in hiring Us for any of the Cleaning Services Listed Above please give us a Call or send us a Text Message to set up a time for us to come see your property in order to be able to give you a free Estimate. We are fully insured, We have Client references available upon request. We want to Thank everyone for you're time, We look forward to hearing from new clients, and We strive to continue providing top of the line Cleaning with all of the services we provide to all of Our loyal Cleaning Clients, Which We achieve through Our hard work, Our keen attention to detail, and Our determination to providing the Best Cleaning Services to Our clients. Thank You, We Greatly Appreciate You're Business.


I became too engrossed in figuring out the use of Capitalizations to see the final misspelling.
(Oddly, the spill-chucker doesn't like "Capitalizations", altho it apeers in the wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalization)

flor-de-jasmim

(2,125 posts)
21. I have learned some patience...
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 03:20 PM
Nov 2023

I can deal with the its vs it’s, the their vs they’re vs there, and a few others, but there two that really bug me:

WHENEVER instead of WHEN
Use of PAST as part of a compound verb: I should/would have RAN



3catwoman3

(24,041 posts)
43. Years ago, I had a dear neighbor who said...
Wed Nov 29, 2023, 12:01 AM
Nov 2023

..."I should have came," and I should have went." The first time I heard her say that I almost corrected her. I was really glad I caught myself.

Ocelot II

(115,836 posts)
26. That explains it! I really do become irrationally annoyed by bad grammar
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 04:18 PM
Nov 2023

and misspelled words, and I can be an awful pedant about it. I try to restrain my editor fingers (I've done a lot of editing work in various capacities all my life) on DU so people won't think I'm an asshole. I'm not really an asshole except where grammar is concerned, so please forgive me. Apparently I can't help it.

3catwoman3

(24,041 posts)
44. You might enjoy this masterpiece attributed to a 6 yr old...
Wed Nov 29, 2023, 12:06 AM
Nov 2023

...little girl who was not happy with her dad's choice of a bedtime story - "Why did you bring that book that I didn't want to be read to out of up for?"

cyclonefence

(4,483 posts)
27. Replying to my own OP is probably rude
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 04:22 PM
Nov 2023

but what the hell.

I love diagramming sentences. I think every junior high school student should master diagramming sentences.

My English teacher in seventh grade set us the best sentences to diagram, like this one:

They named the baby Elmer.

Or this one:

Should the barn be painted red?

erronis

(15,328 posts)
35. Agree! And diagramming sentences is what our AI overlords can do very well.
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 06:35 PM
Nov 2023

Of course most of it is just learning how language is commonly used in trillions of instances. But I'm sure they are also learning what makes a human-understandable blob of text so that we can be easily controlled.

(The above was not completely a snark.)

WarGamer

(12,483 posts)
39. It's a generational thing!
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 08:54 PM
Nov 2023

but I try not to loose too much sleep over it and their are bigger things to worry about

kskiska

(27,047 posts)
41. I've pencil lines under misspelled words or incorrect useage in library books
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 10:33 PM
Nov 2023

and have been tempted to do the same.

IL Dem

(815 posts)
45. Oh my, I'm not the only one!
Wed Nov 29, 2023, 12:18 AM
Nov 2023

I even make the correction.

I read a book about a year ago that was so poorly written and edited that I went to Goodreads to give a negative review. The author had multiple advanced degrees but couldn't construct a coherent sentence.

cyclonefence

(4,483 posts)
49. I could recognize books my father had borrowed from our public library
Wed Nov 29, 2023, 03:02 PM
Nov 2023

Not only did he pencil in remarks and corrections about grammar, he also corrected misconceptions about things like when adult men did and did not wear caps instead of hats. All in pencil, thank glob.

3catwoman3

(24,041 posts)
42. What an interesting thread.
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 11:48 PM
Nov 2023

Without a doubt, I am one of those "certain people." I have to really watch myself and tamp down the almost irresistible urge to correct people who are committing assorted usage errors.

My husband has a couple of pronunciation habits that bug me. He voices the silent "t" in often, which I know some dictionaries say is OK, but is sounds affected to me. The other annoyance also involves the letter "t" - he adds it to across and says "acrosst," which makes me grit my teeth and I resist with all my might the impulse to snarkily respond, "There's no "t" at the end of that word."

He also sometimes uses "myself" instead of "I." For example, "John, Matt and myself are going to meet for lunch." I have no idea where this came from.

Current pet peeves -
1. Making a possessive from "I" - Mary and I's vacation -
2. The possessive of guys pronounced as "guises" - Your guys's/guys'es garden looks great." To my distress, I once heard Rachel Maddow use this.

cyclonefence

(4,483 posts)
50. A kind friend once pointed out to me
Wed Nov 29, 2023, 03:07 PM
Nov 2023

that just because I know something, I am not obligated to say it out loud. This has stood me in good stead. I am not just a grammar nazi. I am also an etymological nazi, so that when my sister-in-law asserted that there was an etymological relationship between the phrases "Pig in a poke" and "Let the cat out of the bag," I did not leap, shrieking, across the dinner table to strangle her.

Forever grateful to Mary Elizabeth Branaman. She saved my sister-in-law's life and me a long prison term.

edhopper

(33,615 posts)
46. Sum people
Wed Nov 29, 2023, 12:34 AM
Nov 2023

dont care if there grammar isn't any good, or whose upset when reading it. You're feeling aren't important or if your angry.

northoftheborder

(7,574 posts)
53. I fear I fall in the grammar Nazi zone..
Wed Nov 29, 2023, 04:33 PM
Nov 2023

It’s especially annoying to see it in print by writers who should know better. I asked my grandson if he learned to diagram sentences in school - said yes. Depending upon spell check is not fail proof.

3catwoman3

(24,041 posts)
54. Ode To Spell Check - I love this.
Wed Nov 29, 2023, 05:31 PM
Nov 2023

I have a spelling chequer.
It came with my pee see.

It planely marks for my revue,
Miss takes I can knot sea.

I've run this poem threw it,
And I'm shore your glad to no.

It wonder full in every weigh.
My chequer tolled mi sow.

(I did not create this. I did make a couple of modifications so the cadence was right.)

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