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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPossible Path To E-Vote Theft
And how Anonymous blocked Rove out.
Note that Rove was in denial about the Ohio totals, showing that he did not believe what the official state numbers were showing, because he thought he had it setup for his own numbers to be coming in
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On each county election office computer are read/write pages showing vote totals.
(Read/write means that you can write to that screen and read what was written and rewrite it so that it reads different. On DU you are working with a read/write program.)
As the numbers are entered at county level, a networked computer reads the numbers and can change those numbers at will. The data entry person at the county computer is updating so much that they can't keep track of any changes.
If the count is from a DRE -- Direct Recording Electronic -- there is no data entry person. The numbers are written from one networked computer to another without any human oversight.
OpScan numbers are also transferred electronically: from a read/write memory stick.
So, there is a Rove operated networked computer with a human sitting there looking at the numbers coming in and editing those numbers as the person sees fit. Those new numbers are sent over the network to the county computers, changing those numbers sight unseen. It doesn't even have to be a human, it could be a computer program reading and writing.
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What Anonymous claims to have done is place an administrative password on the network system keeping the person at the Rove keyboard from logging in (much like you log in to DU) thereby stopping Rove's people from accessing the network.
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JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Doesn't State election laws prevent campaigns from working too close to polls? How could ORCA legally spy on voters to record their names?
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Seems Orca and the vote manipulation operations were separate.
Y'know, I have not seen one investigative report about Orca, have you?
As for being networked into the county system all it takes is being able to log in, much the same as logging in at DU. With the right username and password, you're in. No telling how many people are allowed to be logged in to a county/state network, probably hundreds.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Probably by email, which would have been saved in a folder. Anonymous simply had to read that email and they were able to login to the system using that info.
Having an email account hacked has happened to nearly everybody who has been on the web for long.
randome
(34,845 posts)Incredible.
Last edited Mon Nov 19, 2012, 12:50 PM - Edit history (1)
I see you, an anonymous person on here using something like email trying to tell me what happened.
Point of all this is showing up how easily hacked our vote counting process has become. I see no one yet claiming otherwise. So....
brooklynite
(94,535 posts)All ORCA was was a reporting system by which poll watchers, legally allowed to be in the voting area, report on who has shown up to vote, NOT who they vote for. The goal was to build a model of where presumed Romney voter were turning out in sufficient numbers, and where they were not, to guide GOTV operations. The voting machines were not networked, and ORCA (if it had worked) had no ability to intereact with them.
But then, I guess a good espionage story is more entertaining. ESpecially when cartoon masks are involved.
GeorgeGist
(25,320 posts)but I couldn't. Mbyafos?
rightard whitey
(1 post)My read was Antonymous hackers installed code to block Rove's virtual private networking (VPN) connections to vulnerable servers used for voting. Anonymous called their firewall, the Great Oz. I suspect they installed a firewall to block certain TCP and UDP ports that Rove's hackers were using. This would be easier than trying to change remote access passwords.
Certainly, OH was one of the states Rove was trying to hack. Keep in mind, too, that Romney had links to a voting machine company whose equipment was used in the OH election. See http://www.salon.com/2012/10/23/romney_linked_voting_machine_company_to_count_votes_in_ohio/
Romney was very focused on PA ,too, a state Nate Silver suggested Team Romney had no chance of winning. I suspect Rove had found some voting server vulnerabilities there, too.
Hopefully Anonymous will publish more information so the Rove's operatives can be arrested and charged with vote tempering. Server logs in the battleground states need to be examined closely for unauthorized access.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Those logs should become public. We should be able to know who is authorized and who was not.
The real point of all this, I think you may agree, is that the system is very vulnerable and can easily exploited via the network.
Ohio 2004..... the network crashed and when it came back up some precincts had numbers that were incredibly large for Bush. In the heat of the moment, Ohio was called for Bush and no fair recount was ever undertaken. That's how Rove managed to pull off 2004. This time only the real numbers ever showed, leaving Rove flailing at the true count.
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Welcome to DU.....
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Last edited Fri Nov 23, 2012, 02:47 PM - Edit history (1)
Counties counted their votes on a precinct by precinct basis, reported totals to the State, and the state totals were reported on the WWW. There was a switch when one server became overloaded and could not handle the amount of traffic, another web server came online. That was intentional and planned for in advance, and not a crash of a network.
The county numbers were NOT altered. Each county keeps track of their own numbers, they keep counting absentee and provisional ballots,then turn in official results later. You DO NOT remotely alter the county counts, it was not done, there is no evidence of any county's vote total being altered ever. Yet this false meme continues.
The vast majority of Ohio voted on punch cards.
Ohio Punch Cards = http://jqjacobs.net/politics/congress/ohio_punch_cards.ppt
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Ohio 2004. Election night.
One huge county closed the doors on the count keeping the public out. Result: Bush won that county big, Fox news reported.
Several smaller counties were listed with more Bush votes than there were voters. Not until days later were the numbers corrected.
There never was any kind of accurate recount, audit or official statewide examination until weeks or months later, and when it was audited it was found that thousands of Kerry votes were miscounted as Bush votes.
In the heat of the night, the server, when it came back on line had Bush with @ a 10% higher margin with hardly any extra votes counted.
Fox news ran with those wrong numbers, called the election for Bush, and the theft was done.
One question for you Coy: Do you deny Ohio was stolen in 2004?
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Last edited Fri Nov 23, 2012, 01:16 PM - Edit history (1)
"Fox reported that" is what you've got? Read these:
Election Fraud, Irregularity, and Reform Headlines archive.zip
http://jqjacobs.net/politics/archive.zip
Try the actual numbers and the county name, if you care to present something resembling a fact.
Where is your so-called audit?
Where is your source for this claim?
If you knew how Ohio was stolen in 2004, you would not make the exaggerated and baseless claims.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)So tell us how Ohio was stolen in 2004.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)to the questions I posed? Or, you just don't want to admit what you said was baseless?
snot
(10,524 posts)So far, you've offered no more info or sources than he has.
LiberalFighter
(50,912 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Coy, I see you missed this whole Mega thread here's the link:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1835756
Snipped piece::::
So what happened then? Stephen Spoonamore, a computer expert and close associate of Michael Connell, who was widely known as “Karl Rove’s IT guru”, provided a likely answer to that question in a sworn affidavit on October 26, 2008.
During the evening and early morning on the 2004 General Election in Ohio, on my own computer I was watching the results of incoming counties and precincts. I believed there was a more than likely chance County Tabulators had been programmed to manipulate votes…. As early results showed Kerry ahead, I noticed a trend in a very few counties (I believe I noted 8 counties on election night) that at about 11 p.m. suddenly began reporting radically different ratios of Kerry to Bush votes. All in favor of Mr. Bush. This sudden rate of change… resembled a fraud technique called an Intelligent Man In the Middle, or KingPin Attack. This type of attack requires a computer to be inserted into the communications flow of an IT system…
Other experts found additional data indicating Bush's increase in votes from these counties, and Kerry's decrease in votes… When information about the SmartTech IT routing switch became public… I again stated that we now have confirmation of a KingPin, or Intelligent Man in the Middle position had been created… The SmartTech system was set up precisely as a KingPin computer used in criminal acts against banking or credit card processes and had the needed level of access to both county tabulators and Secretary of States computers to allow whoever was running SmartTech's computers to decide the output of the county tabulators under its control… The SmartTech computer would as the results of the evening proceeded be able to know how many votes Bush needed to steal from Kerry, and flip enough votes on the desired county tabulators to reverse the outcome of the election…
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Skewing the facts to support false inferences does not get past the fact checkers.
You will find repeated debunkings of that CT on DU. But, don't ask the believers to notice the facts.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)I am in awe. Speechless, even.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)There is a book called "Fooled Again" by Mark Crispin Miller that I have right here. You really need to read it, Coy.
louis-t
(23,292 posts)Phony 'terror alert' was the excuse they used to count votes in secret.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)There was nothing in the results to warrant any vote change suspicions.
Election Fraud, Irregularity, and Reform Headlines
http://jqjacobs.net/politics/archive.zip
farmbo
(3,121 posts)In fact, after the "terror alert" and late reporting, Warren County delivered an extra 13,000 votes for Bush above his margin over Al Gore in 2000.
It shifted Red, big time.
LiberalFighter
(50,912 posts)one supervised by a Democrat and the other by a Republican. With neither having access to the other.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)I can even understand it.
Why would anyone think that Rove's ethics-challenged operatives would NOT do this? It seems all too easy...and after all, it worked before....
JohnnyRingo
(18,628 posts)The only connection made when we set up the machines at the beginning of the day is to plug them into a wall outlet. There is no login or internet connection. Votes are tallied in each county, not in Columbus.
As for "hackers installing codes" into the Ohio voting machines, that would be logistically impossible. Our machines, manufactured by three main companies to avoid corporate sabotage, are stored in each of Ohio's 88 counties, and the number of people who can walk into every one of those counties with authorization to work on the dozens or even hundreds of machines located there, could be counted on one hand. That's a lot of accountability (read: prison time) for someone who pledges their allegiance to the likes of Karl Rove.
Every one of our machines have had a paper trail since newly elected democratic governor Ted Strickland demanded it upon taking office. He overhauled Ohio's voting machine requirements in time for the '06 election (remember how Ohio went for Obama in '08?).
The machines, while used for tabulating a local digital result, is reset after the election for the next one. The paper ballots, machine printed on the Accuscan TSx right in front of the voter's very eyes, and the paper ballots marked by hand and fed into the optical scanners like the Hart and ES&S optical scan machines, are handed to a poll worker for return to the county BOE. There, they are stored under lock & key for two years in case of a dispute or recount.
If someone wanted to uncover a plot by some Batman movie villain, all they would have to do is take their evidence to court and get an order to count the printed and verified paper ballots in just one suspect county. That will prove there was fraud involved in the election. I don't think anyone would rest easy knowing that thousands of machines are sitting in 88 counties ticking like a federal indictment time bomb, or that those paper ballots are locked up just waiting for officials to count them by hand.
Conspiracy theories are always rooted in conspiracy fact, but there's usually a few puzzle pieces that don't fit and have to be pounding in with a mallet. What you end up with is an imperfect picture of the perfect crime. Some people look to Anonymous as the defender of truth, justice, and the American way in this election...That's the Lone Ranger, not a hacker.
If you have any questions about how Ohio votes on the modern electronic voting machines, and how precinct security assures an accurate count, I work the polls every year and have first hand knowledge. Meanwhile, here's a place where you can see how each of the main three machines work. Notice that in each case, there is a hard copy of a ballot printed on paper for archival purposes:
http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/Upload/elections/votingsystems.aspx?page=25056#
randome
(34,845 posts)There is an entrenched belief in magic on DU. Maybe we need a Magic Activist forum.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)The lack of comprehension of what the computers can and can't do with numbers, from someone who works at the polling place, scares me.
Like I told you in another thread, they will not let you audit or do a timely and fair recount. Because, the last time they did, it was discovered Kerry won Ohio. They learned their lesson well.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Wow, that's a whopper! Did you make it up yourself? Because it is a new whopper, ttbomk.
The funny thing about recounted punch cards, they recount the same! The Ohio 2004 recount was a complete waste of money, but it did accomplish one thing, bleeding activists for donations. The recount changed the outcome by very few votes. Now, if you could have reshuffled the ballots back to their original precincts, they might have recounted very differently! Snookered is snookered! Foresight is why it is so important to understand how stealing elections is done, and how that is evolving. Now you can't just move the punch cards to another pile and switch a Kerry vote to a Bush vote, move one ballot, change the vote margin by two votes!!
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Just like you said:
Now, if you could have reshuffled the ballots back to their original precincts, they might have recounted very differently! Snookered is snookered!
That is one way they stole many votes.
So, on the night of the election, using fraudulent numbers from switched ballots, and the additions of many votes to Bush via the servers and outright magic votes for Bush in several small counties, the media, under pressure to declare a winner, and without knowing of all the snookering you just told us about, declared Bush the winner.
This time the vote was not close enough and too many eyes and too many Anonymous keyboards were in play. Rove had a conniption seeing his dastardly plans thwarted and we kept Obama in office. Oh Happy days!!
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)How many times is it necessary to repeat the simple facts? The counties count their ballots and report the votes. It is not the other way around, where someone informs thew county of their votes. It only works one way. Every precinct is counted and recorded at the county level, then reported to the state. The counties know their vote totals. Show me where any one of the 88 counties found their totals to be altered by a server. This is a pure myth.
The media called the election when the vote counting indicated Bush was the winner.
There were no magic votes in 2004. Do your research. That myth has been debunked too.
If you are taking credit for keeping Obama in office, your server logs please!
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Mark Crispin Miller, my own eyes and many good DUers, or a coupla Anonymous characters on the web, like you.
Can ya guess who?
You need to read the book, dude. You are woefully uneducated.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Apparently, you cannot face that fact. Name the county. Which of the 88 counties had one vote changed by a server?
The fallback of those who don't know of which they speak, point to someone else and pin it on them? You have accomplished nothing but deflect your inability upon someone else.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Pg 30, Fooled Again.
It has been 8 years so I forgive you for not knowing any of this. You were probably in grade school then, right?
Go read the "Fooled Again" so you may know that besides us being, as you say "snookered" by the punch cards, the computers gave Bush many, many votes.
JohnnyRingo
(18,628 posts)..it indicates they want to believe in anything as long as Big Brother is involved. Exactly who is "they"?
As I told you in a previous thread, a court would only have to order a recount in a single suspected county to prove fraud. If you or anyone else has something that indicates such fraud, take it to court. If you believe Karl Rove (or anyone else) owns the country's federal courts, I'm disappointed in your lack of comprehension of how the Department of Justice works.
Once again, the computers are only a conduit for counting the paper ballots that were verified by each voter. A ridiculous fraud like you want to believe in is logistically impossible given the vast number of counties and voting machines. That's why Rove, etal, doubled down on deceptive advertising and voter suppression for 2012. That was criminal enough.
I've officially tired of arguing with someone who has a conspiracy fetish. I've gone into great detail about every security measure Ohio takes, and you continue to put your full faith in a masked man who posted something on an internet web site. If hard paper ballots aren't good enough for you to believe an election is accurate, I'd like to know what method you think is suitable.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Jeez,
And cyber-crime is now a conspiracy fetish?
I hope you are tired of posting this name calling and denial.
Obama won. Just like Kerry did in 2004.
You too need to read "Fooled Again". Don't be afraid of being educated. It's good for you.
JohnnyRingo
(18,628 posts)I employed reality based facts to refute the fantastic claims you make that are based on nonsense from 2004 that you dug up on the internet and science fiction, and you call me stupid? Unlike you, I have intimate first hand knowledge on how votes were cast and counted in Ohio in 2012. it's different now, and there's no internet connection available to hack. That would be absurd.
I'm done with you, you're a babbling idiot who sees Karl Rove hiding under your bed waiting for you to go to sleep so he can steal your vote. So far I've received four PMs from DUers thanking me for setting you straight. I feel quite vindicated and am ending this discussion I've been having with a flower vase.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)I am talking about 2004 and using the book "Fooled Again" as my information source. It cost me $30 bucks and I am so glad to be using it here. If you have not read it, you haven't read it so I forgive you.
So far, no one has refuted what I and the book "Fooled Again" has put up as evidence. I have not a cogent argument from you or any others. How could you argue if you haven't read it?
Now.... your level of discussion here is odd. Most everyone on DU agrees Ohio was stolen in 2004 and was not stolen this time, so why are we in such a disagreement? And why do you lower yourself like this?
You may need to step away from the keyboard for a bit. Please, go read the book "Fooled Again". The sub title is "How the right stole the 2004 election & why they will steal the next one too (unless we stop them)"
We stopped them! That is what I am trying to impart: We stopped them. What is wrong with that?
JohnnyRingo
(18,628 posts)...when newly elected governor Ted Strickland demanded (and got) a paper trail added to every voting machine. That was the end to the accountless electronic voting in Ohio that elected GW Bush. I live here, and recall vividly the fight Strickland had getting this done. It was only when he threatened to shred the contracts that we got the machines in use today. What happened in 2004 is now irrelevant to the 2012 election.
I do however, apologize for resorting to a personal attack in my frustration. I'll tell you what though, instead of studying elections by scouring the internet and Amazon for clues of corruption, you should go to the elections board in your county and ask to be a precinct worker. I sure they could use you. If you're in the minority party in your district, they'll snatch you up in a heartbeat.
I don't know what state you live in, or what method they use to record votes, but after you work an election and see the level of devotion exhibited by other workers and learn the redundant steps required to assure security, you may be less prone to think a mere mortal like Karl Rove can hit a few keystrokes and flip an entire election. Plus, they pay you.
If by then you still think electronic voting is vulnerable, you'll be in a better position to pinpoint the problem and suggest a fix. It certainly gave me an eye opening education on election integrity.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)You continue to downplay what the electronics can do. I KNOW better.
As for the local, I went to the board after 2004 and told them that was the last time a DRE would be used. It was the last. I lobbied my state people and NC passed a paper ballot law.
The last time I was privy to an audit there was a 4% error. They said "so what". Fuck them. I was told by a former board member that "it was getting harder to skim votes."
Now here you are sitting there telling me that I have nothing to worry about.
It might do you some good to listen to the stuff i have to say. You might, y'know, maybe, learn something? Instead you say Fuck you.
Well, there ya have it. Oh, go read the book, K?
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)Name: Maintenance
Password: Password
That's how smart GOP IP is.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)This whole scenario is something that happens 24/7.
It is called cyber-crime, this tapping into networks and changing numbers around.
Nothing new. It is not mysterious or even very complicated if you know your way around computers like Anonymous does.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Have you any proof that Rove was not stopped from hacking the vote?
From what I have seen, Obama won. Just like Kerry did in 2004. Only this time Rove was blocked. He showed himself disbelieving the Ohio numbers.
He showed himself with something up his sleeve, He thought.
Anon warned him. Rove was made into a fool. How do you explain that?
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Any old smoo can post any old story on the internet, but that does not make it true.
If you believe it just because you want to, where does that lead?
Zorra
(27,670 posts)as the distinguished Karl "Turdblossom" Rove would ever stoop to using this simple, fast, easy, convenient method to commit mass election fraud and attempt to steal an election?
Of course, he has long been aware of the possibility that he could use this method to steal elections under certain predetermined conditions in the right circumstances (there would probably have to be a corrupt and dishonest Secretary of State in a particular battleground state, as well as a corrupt co-conspirator to operate the keyboard, and we all know these types of persons are non-existent among the ranks of Republicans).
It may seem completely logical and reasonable to you that there is an absolute 100% probability that Rove would use this almost foolproof, simple method to steal an election, but that is just because you are some kind of suspicious progressive Democrat conspiracy theorist who even probably believes that many Republicans are ethically deficient and morally bankrupt.
I assure you, Karl Rove is a gentleman of impeccable, incorruptible character who would never engage in such chicanery.
Kind regards,
struggle2persuade
Third Way Concern Coordinator,
Internet Communications Division
(satire)
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Would you enlighten everyone else and explain how it is done. This should be very interesting, at long last, a detailed description of how it is so simple, so fast, so easy, so convenient and so massive. Droool
brooklynite
(94,535 posts)Is it just Karl Rove punching numbers on his cell phone? Or does it likely require a host of programmers to write the code, engineers to design the circuits, and statisticians to determine how many votes to add to which voting precincts?
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)
These things happen by magic, without explanations or feasible physical pathways People been watching too much Harry Potter or what? Zorra
(27,670 posts)electronic voting machines.
Good grief! You know as well as I do that electronic voting machines should be used early and often to protect the free market from democracy. If the truth about these machines gets out to the unwashed masses, we might be forced to use a transparent, as foolproof as possible voting process in the United States!
And we absolutely can't have that, can we?
Regards,
struggling2persuade
Third Way Concern Coordinator
Internet Communications Division
brooklynite
(94,535 posts)...I'm just challenging the complete lack of evidence the they either were or could have been hacked.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Perhaps the only part that doesn't ring true in your post is the word "satire," given the apologetics here to defend the impeachable character of Mr. Rove.
No matter how improbable an event is, there will always be those that think it happened without any nefarious interference.
I am suspicious of those that think there are never any conspiracies to commit any large scale fraud on the American or World's public.
The bu$h Administration was honest and up front about 9/11. Iraq had WMD. They were just moved to Iran before we got there. Karl Rove would never rig an election. 3rd way Democrats, being Democrats, have our best interest in mind. And so on.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)He isn't titled in my world
To say that a Conspiracy Theory about Rove is not in evidence and an outlandish claim is not a defense of Rove.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)if they had they would produce the corpus delicti, which they have not. Mere words posted on the internet does not add up to much.
Show us, show the court, produce the body of evidence, show us those acting in concert, because claiming a conspiracy means nothing.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Fact is that Rove did not steal the election. Whether it was because of all the work so many of us have done over the years working to make sure officials (who tried their best to ignore us) did their jobs, or it was a simple kill switch on Rove's cyber-crime, Obama won.
If you look around you will see many who are on the fence about Anonymous. That's cool. But what you will find is nearly all say that the way the system is setup, Anonymous may have been involved and that system which would allow anyone such as Rove or Anonymous to game it must be changed.
Do you, Historic NY, agree with that?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)At the end of the day, it wouldn't have mattered if Rove had been able to steal Ohio.
But I still think this "story" is silly. You have unfounded assertions from someone claiming to be "anonymous", with zero evidentiary corroboration beyond the fact that Rove was in denial about Romney losing. The entire GOP establishment was in denial about Romney losing. Sorry, no sale.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)electoral votes won the election, the story would be different. A repeat of the 2004 election theft would have been circumvented.
No one (except maybe Nate Silver) really knew that the election was not going to be decided in Ohio. While the (ok, alleged, if you like) actions of Anonymous in this case were not responsible for Obama's victory, they very well could have won the election for us if the election had come down to who won Ohio's votes.
No one, that I am aware of, is saying that Anonymous was responsible for Obama winning the election.
What we are saying is that they made an (alleged) effort to stop an instance of electronic voting fraud in Ohio, and that, if Ohio's 18 electoral votes had been the deciding factor in the cumulative national electoral count, then the (alleged) actions of Anonymous would have been responsible for Obama winning the election. It's not that Anonymous saved the election for us, it's that they (allegedly) located an anomaly in the Ohio electronic voting system and corrected it in order to ensure that the vote count would be accurate. They (allegedly) did a good deed, and made a non-partisan effort to make sure Ohio's electoral votes went to the candidate who won them fair and square.
Anyway, it really doesn't matter one whit who believes whatever about the (alleged) actions of Anonymous here, because the bottom line here is this ~
[font color="blue" size="10" face="face"]We need to eliminate electronic voting from our electoral process because
"An open and honest examination of the flaws in electronic voting will lead us to only one possible conclusion: electronic voting machines are dangerous to democracy because there is no way of ensuring their accuracy."[/font]
~~Rep. Dennis Kucinich
End of story.
