Sure, vote for Jill Stein.

[Mr.Bill]

Biden is too old. Jill will only be 78 at the end of her first term.

[getagrip_already]

1. What term is that? Jail?

Unregistered foreign agent?

[elocs]

2. Here in Wisconsin in '16, Stein received more votes than Trump's margin of victory,

and it's safe to say that most of her voted came from the Left and at the expense of Hillary Clinton. I would hope in '24 that those on the Left finally learn that it's stupid to throw away your vote on a 3rd party candidate. Nader helped to elect W Bush over Gore, but the Left forgot that lesson again in '16. Imagine an America where a Trump has never elected president.

[kwolf68]

3. Nader had a role maybe but what got Dumbya elected

Was the Supreme Court of the United States.

[Hekate]

5. If Nader hadn't been a fool with an ego the size of the Twin Towers, it never would have..

…gotten to the Supremes in the first place.

[Celerity]

7. How Florida Democrats torpedoed Gore (Slate Magazine - November 28, 2000)

If the vice president had locked up his party's traditional base in the Sunshine State, the election wouldn't be tied up in the courts.

https://www.salon.com/2000/11/28/hightower/

snip

How is the Democratic Party establishment dealing with this crisis of legitimacy and its own declining numbers? By blaming Ralph Nader. Partisans wail that Nader denied Gore the few hundred votes he needed to prevail on election night. Indeed, Nader polled some 95,000 votes in Florida, which prompted New York socialite and Hillary Clinton moneyman Harry Evans to blurt angrily, "I want to kill Ralph Nader."

Hold your horses, please. Ralph's not the message -- he's only the messenger. Again, the politicos and pundits are ignoring another set of election statistics in Florida that are way more revealing about the core weakness of the corporate Democrats. I'm grateful to Tim Wise, a Nashville writer and activist who dug into the Florida tallies and exit polls to find some stunning results that refute the "Ralph did it" assault. Wise's full report will appear in a forthcoming issue of Z magazine, but the essence of it is that Gore was the problem, not Nader. Start with two constituent groups that Democratic nominees usually win in the Sunshine State:

1) Seniors. By a 51-47 percent margin, Gore lost the over-65 vote in Florida. Bush got 67,000 more senior votes than Gore did, even after all the Democratic scare talk about vanishing Social Security benefits. Had Gore simply broken even with this constituency, he would have won.

2) White Women. This group typically votes Democratic in Florida, or splits evenly. Gore lost them to Bush by 53-44 percent. Had he gotten 50 percent of these votes, he'd have added 65,000 votes to his total -- plenty enough to have put the state in his column election night.

Now it gets really ugly for the Gore campaign, for there are two other Florida constituencies that cost them more votes than Nader did. First, Democrats. Yes, Democrats! Nader only drew 24,000 Democrats to his cause, yet 308,000 Democrats voted for Bush. Hello. If Gore had taken even 1 percent of these Democrats from Bush, Nader's votes wouldn't have mattered. Second, liberals. Sheesh. Gore lost 191,000 self-described liberals to Bush, compared to less than 34,000 who voted for Nader.

snip

[SocialDemocrat61]

12. Whataboutism

Ralph Nader was a major contributing factor to Bush becoming President. Let’s not forget in addition to Florida he pulled enough votes in New Hampshire to throw that state to Bush. He also accepted Republicans funding which he used to run false attack ads against Gore in several states which caused the Gore campaign to divert away from states like Florida funds to respond to those ads.

[Celerity]

16. no

Btw, I find the term 'whataboutism' to be one of the most overused, most often misapplied, and generally ineffective and unconvincing rejoinders employed here on DU.

[SocialDemocrat61]

18. Sorry you don't like the term

But it’s accurate in this case.

[Celerity]

19. disagree, but to each their own, cheers

[elocs]

6. Hillary Clinton did run a piss-poor campaign. Biden has already been to Wisconsin several times now already.

Wisconsin is no longer a state that smart candidates ignore anymore.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

9. BS

Going to Wisconsin wouldn't have changed anything. It's already been demonstrated that visiting a state only occasionally improves a candidate's results in a state.

Really.

Abstract

Hillary Clinton’s failure to visit the key battleground state of Wisconsin in 2016 has become a popular metaphor for the alleged strategic inadequacies of her presidential campaign. Critics who cite this fact, however, make two important assumptions: that campaign visits are effective, in general, and that they were effective for Clinton in 2016. I test these assumptions using an original database of presidential and vice presidential campaign visits in 2016. Specifically, I regress party vote share on each candidate’s number of campaign visits, at the county level, first for all counties located within battleground states, and then for counties located within each of six key battleground states: Florida, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. The results of this analysis do not clearly support either of the assumptions made by Clinton’s critics. In general, none of the presidential or vice presidential candidates – including Clinton – significantly influenced voting via campaign visits. However, Clinton is one of only two candidates – along with Mike Pence, in Ohio – whose campaign visits had a significant effect on voting in an individual state. Specifically, Clinton’s visits to Pennsylvania improved the Democratic ticket’s performance in that state by 1.2 percentage points. Also, there is weak evidence to suggest that Clinton might have had a similar effect on voting in Michigan. It is unclear from this evidence whether Clinton also would have gained votes, or even won, in Wisconsin had she campaigned in that state. But two conclusions are clear. First, Clinton’s visits to Democratic-leaning battleground states did not have the “backfiring” effect that her campaign reportedly feared. Second, Donald Trump did not win in Pennsylvania, Michigan, or Wisconsin as a direct result of his campaign visits to those decisive states.

https://ecommons.udayton.edu/pol_fac_pub/116/

[betsuni]

10. Thank you. Bookmarking.

[TheProle]

11. Then your argument is null as well

If it “occasionally” makes a difference, then your statement (that it would not have) is unfalsifiable and therefore conjecture.

[Polybius]

14. I remember seeing an animated GIF of campaign stops from October 1 till Election Day 2016

The difference between the sheer amount of states visited in that span by Clinton and Trump was staggering.

[edhopper]

15. I hate that argument

She had a massive rally in Pennsylvania the night before the election,
But still lost the State.
If some idiot didn't vote for her because she didn't visit enough, that's on them.

[betsuni]

24. Are there no TVs, computers, electronic devices, newspapers, books? Only way to know what a

candidate says is to go in person to hear a train stop speech or travel to a big city for a rally (too hard on the horses, they've got to plow in the morning)?

Do people not understand how large the United States is? Do they think if an undecided or Republican voter attends a Democratic nominee's rally they'll be converted like at a revival meeting? I have no idea what that's all about, it's ridiculous.

Was that last week after the Comey letter when Hillary lost points and undecideds swung to Trump. The Bad Campaign, Flawed Candidate, Couple More Rallies for White People in Swing States, She Had No Economic Message -- garbage.

[elocs]

26. Well, I live in Wisconsin and it did make a difference to many

and one of the one of the things they took from her not making a single campaign stop here in the general election was because she was certain she had the state locked up in her column. So that gave them the freedom to vote for somebody like Stein.

I'm sorry you hate that argument, but I'm sure you can live with it. Save your hate for more important things.

[inthewind21]

36. So

How'd that "think she had it locked" up work out?

[Bucky]

28. I'm no fan of third parties, but the argument that they cost us the 2016 or 2000 elections

are based entirely on the dubious assertions that the preponderance of Nader votes would have gone to Gore and the preponderance of Stein votes would have gone to Clinton.

We don't have mandatory voting in this country. The people who won't vote for the Democratic nominee when there's three or four or five choices for the most part won't show up to vote if they're limited to just two.

[Hekate]

4. And she's good buddies w Putin & Gen. Flynn💡

That photo of them breaking bread together was quite the scene.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

8. Russian Asset

Link to tweet

[Bucky]

30. In my circle I have more than a couple of Stein supporters

I think their sense of politics is a mush, but there's no way people who think that's a good use of their vote was going to vote for Secretary Clinton.

[marble falls]

31. I looked into the Greens and what I saw was lefties like me and huge component of right wingers ...

... and not many moderates at all.

[roamer65]

13. Fuck that Putler lover.

[LudwigPastorius]

17. _

[marble falls]

33. See? Now that's funny!

[iemanja]

20. Who are you talking to?

Do you think people on this site will vote for Jill Stein? Why is it people never think about their audience?

[Mr.Bill]

21. People with a sense of humor

who know what the Sarcasm emoji means.

[betsuni]

25. Heh.

[MichMan]

29. There were some who were gullible enough to donate money to her for her fake recount.

[marble falls]

32. Every once in while we need a booster shot and a good laugh.

[DemocraticPatriot]

22. Jill who ????????? End of story.

I am a loyal Democrat---
even if the presidential nominee has a few imperfections, IMHO...

[peggysue2]

23. Yes, vote for Jill Stein if your objective is . . .

To see the American Experiment obliterated and replaced with a theocratic, white nationalist nightmare.

Otherwise, vote Blue like your life depended on it. Because it does.

Jill Stein is a spoiler, nothing more. Hey, maybe she’ll get another free dinner with Putin.

[marble falls]

34. Post about her so as to never accept her as harmless, and she provides laughs and giggles along the way.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

35. Stein is a Russian Asset

Link to tweet

[MichMan]

37. Which makes all the donations she got from members here in 2016 even worse.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

38. Stein defrauded a ton of people in 2016 when she promised to contest the 2016 election

Stein lied about the recounts and contests and kept the money donated to her. Stein is a dishonest person.