Israel denies they caused the Hospital blast, and blames a Hamas/Islamic Jihad rocket misfire.

[JohnSJ]

"The Foreign Ministry says firmly that “the IDF did not conduct any operations in the area at the time of impact.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-publishes-video-it-says-proves-failed-rocket-launch-caused-gaza-hospital-blast/

Israel also says they will be releasing an intercepted conversation between Hamas and the Islamic Jihad which acknowledges a rocket misfire.

Whatever the case, Hamas or the Islamic Jihad will never admit if they are responsible, and use it as a tool to incite chaos.

It would be nice if a neutral party of experts could safely get into there to determine the blast's signature, but unlikely that will happen.

[2naSalit]

1. I don't trust any of them...

To tell the truth about this incident.

[JohnSJ]

2. Absolutely

[AloeVera]

3. Size of explosion

True. But definitely don't trust IDF on this.

The sheer size of the explosion and the number of people killed point to an Israeli Air strike or several even.

Huge difference between dinky Hamas rockets and fancy bombs the Israelis use.

IDF is not exactly a paragon of truth-telling but in this case there's not enough propaganda in the world.

[NickB79]

4. Hamas doesn't have dinky missiles any longer

They've been armed with much more powerful ones by Iran in recent years.

https://observers.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231013-inside-the-arsenal-iranian-sourced-weapons-used-in-hamas-and-islamic-jihad-s-israel-assault

[PCIntern]

9. And even a dinky misfile hitting an ammo dump

Next to a hospital could be problematic.

[BootinUp]

11. I haven't had a chance to read the reports yet

is it definite that something hit an ammo dump?

Fuck.

[PCIntern]

21. Looks like

[AloeVera]

25. It was conjecture thrown out by Israel. No evidence.

But they'll come up with something. They always do. Greatest(?) PR machine in the world next to the Republicans.

[wnylib]

12. The size of the explosion does not point to Israel.

There was a Hamas anmi dump next to the hospital, which amplified the effect of the hit.

It is not beneath Hamas to kill its own people in an attack like that in order to gain world support. Not saying that's what happened. Just saying that it is a possibility.

[AloeVera]

27. Occam's Razor?

The simplest answer is usually correct.

One side says there was a misfire of a Hamas rocket, which then happened to land in an ammo dump which just happened to be next to a hospital.

The other side says Israel dropped the 8000th (?) bomb on Gaza, this time on a hospital.

Which do you think is more likely to be true?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

28. I'll answer your question

Last edited Wed Oct 18, 2023, 12:55 AM - Edit history (1)

This one.

One side says there was a misfire of a Hamas rocket, which then happened to land in an ammo dump which just happened to be next to a hospital

.

[AloeVera]

42. Does someone who disagrees with you have to have an agenda?

Look, I get suspicious too about people who have wildly different views. I mean I loathe the Repubs and Trump supporters. As I'm sure you do too or you wouldn't be here.

I am very agitated about the suffering of the people in Gaza. I was the same way the week before about the Hamas atrocities against Israelis.

I am anti-war, anti-terrorism, pro-human rights and I want to see a solution to the Palestinian's plight. I see this war in a different way than most here. It is already leading to so much suffering and may light up the whole region or worse. Creating more breeding grounds for terrorism and reducing everyone's security.

If you see that as an "agenda" fine. I see it as speaking my truth and I hope I will be allowed to do that.

[manicdem]

51. no ammo dump

I don't think it hit an ammo dump as the explosion was too small and there were no secondary explosions.

Or it'd have to be a very very small ammo dump.

[DemocraticPatriot]

46. What do you know about the "sheer size of the explosion"??

Got any documentation, other than hearsay?


HAMAS isn't exactly a "paragon of truth-telling", either....

[BootinUp]

5. Agreed. nt

[womanofthehills]

6. Then why did Israel tell hospitals to evacuate because they were going to bomb them?

‘Agonising choice’ for hospital workers amid Israeli order to evacuate

The World Health Organization (WHO) on Saturday strongly condemned Israel’s repeated order for 22 hospitals in northern Gaza to be evacuated, describing it as a “death sentence” for the sick and injured.

With around 2,000 desperately ill patients inside their wards, WHO said the forced evacuation of both patients and health workers “will further worsen the current humanitarian and public health catastrophe.”
https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/10/1142347

[BootinUp]

7. Bombs sometimes hit things even if it wasn't planned.

I don't know if that is what happened either, but I think it is a good possibility.

[question everything]

8. Gaza has a network of tunnels that cross the border. The entrances to them

are from hospitals precisely for this reason.

[LeftInTX]

10. They never told anyone they were going to bomb hospitals!

They just wanted everyone out of harm's way.

Why would they intentionally bomb hospitals. They know it's a war crime, so why would they say, "Hey we're gonna commit a war crime"?

[yagotme]

13. If Hamas was using the hospital as a shield, covering, say,

a command center, a missile launch site, or, even, an ammo dump.

[ripcord]

14. Does anyone where the Ford carrier group is?

If they are in range they probably have radar footage of the missile launch.

[Mz Pip]

15. Israel gains nothing by doing this

Hamas gains a lot if they can blame it on Israel.

[JustAnotherGen]

16. Reichstag fire anyone?

This is not good.

[mitch96]

17. My question is does the radar show any Israeli planes in the air when the bomb hit?

With the US aircraft carrier off the coast it has some pretty powerful long range radar that is probably tracking every plane and rocket that is in the air. No plane? it's a rocket. No rocket but planes? Hummmm. What was aloft when this happened?
A thought..
m

[Cha]

18. I trust Israel More on this Than

Fucking HAMAS Butchers.

[GuppyGal]

22. +1000

[Arazi]

19. Multiple experts have evaluated it and it's a Hamas rocket launch gone bad

I posted an Al Jazeera link earlier.

Here’s some GIS folks who did a lot of geo locating of the rocket trails etc. Not that it will matter. Israel will be blamed. The Arab states have already decided which makes it near impossible to change their lies

Link to tweet

?s=46

[Maru Kitteh]

20. Yeah this isn't really a "both sides" situation. Terrorists LIE. Islamic terrorists

are responsible for all those innocent lives. Hamas must really hate Palestinians.

[AloeVera]

23. It wouldn't be the first time Israel bombed a hospital in Gaza.

https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/news-release/2014/07-21-gaza-al-aqsa-hospital.htm

July 2014. Gaza hospital was shelled by Israel.4 dead, 40 injured.

Don't know if they tried to blame Hamas.

[edhopper]

24. Did you join on Saturday

Just to spread anti-Israel propaganda?

[AloeVera]

30. I came here for my voice to be heard by people whose opinions and beliefs I have long agreed with.

As I said in my first comment on Saturday:

I am aghast and sick to my stomach at the facile responses here in regards to the fate of the 2+ million civilians as well as the ignorance of their ongoing plight and oppression.

I have lurked on DU for years and years and consider it my first source of information on U.S. politics. I had agreed with most of the thinking and views of people here. DU was my refuge, where I could find solace and comfort in the face of the madness of Trumpism.

Now I just don't know if this really is my tribe or some alien species masquerading as such. I don't recognize posters I have admired for a long time. I am heartbroken."

I have different views on this ONE issue. One I care deeply about. I joined because I could not stay silent.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

26. And this has what to do with the current situation?

Last edited Wed Oct 18, 2023, 12:56 AM - Edit history (1)

And, so far, it appears to be a rocket fired off by a wing of Hamas.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

35. Welcome to DU.

BTW, what toppings do you like on your pizza?
And do you prefer Tombstone Pizza?

[AloeVera]

37. Nice. Thanks.

Have a nice night.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

38. Have a great night yourself.

[AloeVera]

45. Thank you!

[carpetbagger]

39. Too late lol

[MarineCombatEngineer]

40. LOL!!!

Last edited Wed Oct 18, 2023, 01:04 AM - Edit history (1)

[AloeVera]

44. I'm sorry!

[Moosepoop]

29. Your link does NOT say that Israel bombed the hospital.

It says a hospital in Gaza was bombed in July 2014. It does not say by whom. The ICRC admonishes "all parties" in the conflict regarding medical sites and personnel.

Nice try, though.

[AloeVera]

34. I thought you knew

The Red Cross is non political. They do not name the offenders.

Here is another link from MSM. Clearly stating the shelling was by Israel.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/middle-east-unrest/another-gaza-hospital-hit-israeli-strike-four-dead-40-hurt-n161086

You see

[MarineCombatEngineer]

32. Did you even read it?

It doesn't say whether or not Israel is responsible.

[AloeVera]

36. It's the Red Cross! That is not their job!

Here:
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/middle-east-unrest/another-gaza-hospital-hit-israeli-strike-four-dead-40-hurt-n161086

[Xolodno]

31. Doesn't really matter at this point.

The Arab populace around Israel has already made up its mind. When the Israeli government demanded the hospitals to be evacuated they already telegraphed that they were military targets. Even if they weren't, it didn't look good on the world stage.

[BootinUp]

41. Ok, but I prefer to think that IF it was

an Israeli weapon that it was entirely unintentional.

This whole thing is going sideways. But what did anyone expect with Netanyahu in charge.

[Xolodno]

43. And that's how things can get quickly out of control.

WW1 happened because it was a domino effect of alliances. We have something similar in the ME and everything could quickly fall apart if the wrong decisions are made.

I'm reminded the Russian Revolution was started by bread riots. Turned out there was plenty of bread, but two nobles were haggling over how much each should get of the profits, so they refused to release the bread. Stupid little things like this can have dramatic consequences.

[manicdem]

47. Israeli video is plausable

The video of the explosion:

From the video it shows the explosion is small. The explosion looks big and far away, however the cameraman is pretty close to the impact site as you don't hear the audio lag from seeing the explosion to the sound that would say it's far away. Sounds travels at 1,100 feet per second, so cameraman was probably around 100 feet away since the blast and sound occur at the same time. The Israeli video of the damage does support the small explosion.

Also Hamas rockets contain 10 to 50lbs of explosives for a small explosion like that, with minimal damage to the vehicles and buildings. A typical Israeli bomb contains 200 to 1,000lbs of explosives which would flatten the area and leave a crater. Israel has a smaller SDB guided bombs now that has 50lbs of explosives. But why would they hit a parking lot? Does't appear to be an ammo cache as the explosion would've been much larger if it was.

Also a small explosion like that wouldn't kill 500 people like Hamas claims. Maybe up to 50 people max if it hit a crowd.

[manicdem]

48. Pics of the hospital?

Has anyone actually seen pictures of the demolished hospital building? I can't find any. You'd think something like that would make headlines and be plastered everywhere. And theres videos of the explosion happening, but no pictures of the hospital.

If there are no pictures, then why is everyone saying it actually happened, to include the UN?

[manicdem]

49. Everyone got duped

A lot of Middle East leaders are going to be embarrassed when they realize they've been duped. Even the UN Secretary General. How does that even happen?

[sarisataka]

56. Not everyone

But those who were not duped are accused of supporting genocide of the Palestinians

[Recursion]

50. It looks like the dog was wagged here

We've spent 12 hours arguing about who destroyed a building that is still standing

[FVZA_Colonel]

52. They've bombed eleven other medical sites over the past 10 days

The IDF is not trustworthy

[Happy Hoosier]

53. The guys who deliberately targeted civilians are?

The guys who place miliatary assets in an under hospitals and schools are trustworthy?

C'mon....

[FVZA_Colonel]

54. Hmm, Israel could just not bomb medical sites

While giving proof of their claims other than their own word.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

55. Terrorists, Holocaust-enablers and Jew-haters lie. Fuck 'em straight to hell. n/t