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Malmsy

(302 posts)
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 08:12 AM Jul 2023

When Kris Kristofferson believed and stood by Sinead

In a world of Jason Aldeans, be a Kris Kristofferson

From a FB post:

https://www.facebook.com/hamckinney/posts/pfbid02KoKubuwsjA4Lnm2upcA87pauxDhLt3yrVf5BgRcshWFmeT1uqS7Mh1sMFLTzRvvsl


The week after her SNL performance in 1992, Sinéad O’Connor was scheduled to perform at a tribute to Bob Dylan. Under the circumstances, most artists would have canceled. She was not most artists. She came, and was booed, loud and long and near universally by the crowd, as soon as she stepped on the stage. She stood at the mic, waiting. Later she would describe how awful it felt, but in the moment, she looked resolute. The organizers sent Kris Kristofferson to get her off stage. Kris, who is a saint in his own right, declined to do so and instead comforted her, whispered encouragement, and stayed by her side until she was able to perform. He is said to have told her “Don’t let the bastards get you down,” and she replied “I’m not down.” And she was not. She was brave and strong and talented and fierce and RIGHT about the Church’s cover ups of abuse. This world burns women like her at the stake. Life wasn’t fair to her. We did not deserve her or her gifts, but I am so grateful for what she shared anyway. May she rest in peace, and may we fight the real enemy in her honor.

Kris Kristofferson later wrote a song about that night called “Sister Sinéad.” I don’t love that he refers to her as a “little girl,” she was a woman, not a child, though it reminds me that even with good intentions we men have to be aware of our role in the patriarchy and minimizing women. I very much like the line “some candles flicker and some candles fade/and some burn as true as my sister Sinéad.”

I'm singing this song for my sister Sinead
Concerning the god awful mess that she made
When she told them her truth just as hard as she could
Her message profoundly was misunderstood
There's humans entrusted with guarding our gold
And humans in charge of the saving of souls
And humans responded all over the world
Condemning that bald headed brave little girl


And maybe she's crazy and maybe she ain't
But so was Picasso and so were the saints
And she's never been partial to shackles or chains
She's too old for breaking and too young to tame

It's askin' for trouble to stick out your neck
In terms of a target a big silhouette
But some candles flicker and some candles fade
And some burn as true as my sister Sinead

And maybe she's crazy and maybe she ain't
But so was Picasso and so were the saints
And she's never been partial to shackles or chains
She's too old for breaking and too young to tame




40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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When Kris Kristofferson believed and stood by Sinead (Original Post) Malmsy Jul 2023 OP
Kris was a Rhodes Scholar. twodogsbarking Jul 2023 #1
This I didn't know. n/t MontanaMama Jul 2023 #11
And a captain in the Army Rangers geardaddy Jul 2023 #20
He is someone I always listen to. Might learn something. twodogsbarking Jul 2023 #21
His intelligence has always showed. BlackSkimmer Jul 2023 #30
I fell in love with Sinead... AZ8theist Jul 2023 #2
My hubby calls me little girl LittleGirl Jul 2023 #3
When my father met Pope John Paul, he gave him a similar message. His holiness pretended not FailureToCommunicate Jul 2023 #9
Good for you father for speaking up. MLAA Jul 2023 #16
JP2 was a conservative catholic soldierant Jul 2023 #33
Woman doesn't rhyme with world. Give an artist a little liberty. AZLD4Candidate Jul 2023 #4
I agree. Abigail_Adams Jul 2023 #8
Another agreement here! ShazzieB Jul 2023 #36
In this world of Aldeans, be a Kristofferson. Murphyb849 Jul 2023 #5
Nice. FailureToCommunicate Jul 2023 #10
+1 MLAA Jul 2023 #17
👍👍👍 Rebl2 Jul 2023 #25
Strong words from Kris! Botany Jul 2023 #6
Why am I not surprised? Thanks for sharing this Botany. As horrible as it is... littlemissmartypants Jul 2023 #31
There's a wonderful movie starring Judi Dench, called "Philomena" FakeNoose Jul 2023 #34
I saw this movie with a friend of mine who is a devout Catholic.. Deuxcents Jul 2023 #39
This message was self-deleted by its author Hekate Jul 2023 #35
Joni Mitchell also had something to say about this in her fine song Magdalene Laundries: yonder Jul 2023 #38
I saw that, and have never forgotten it. yardwork Jul 2023 #7
I'm 67 years old slightlv Jul 2023 #12
That is very moving and beautiful. Mickju Jul 2023 #13
K; R CatWoman Jul 2023 #14
Okay, I'm crying now. Aristus Jul 2023 #15
Always been a fan of Kris Kristofferson. Music Man Jul 2023 #18
He was the authentic, real Texan. A kind, gentleman. NCjack Jul 2023 #37
Where was Dylan at that tribute? mahannah Jul 2023 #19
Good question orangecrush Jul 2023 #29
K&R spanone Jul 2023 #22
Seems a lot more complicated than that from her point of view thebigidea Jul 2023 #23
Yeah... druidity33 Jul 2023 #40
I think I have something in my eye... nt. BlueIdaho Jul 2023 #24
Dylan Fans RobinA Jul 2023 #26
+1 treestar Jul 2023 #32
Sinead/Kris mamacita75 Jul 2023 #27
... orangecrush Jul 2023 #28

AZ8theist

(5,655 posts)
2. I fell in love with Sinead...
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 08:26 AM
Jul 2023

After she ripped up that picture of the pope.



"Fight the real enemy"

Indeed.

LittleGirl

(8,299 posts)
3. My hubby calls me little girl
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 08:46 AM
Jul 2023

because I'm small in size, but mighty. Just like her.
May she forever rest in peace.

I applauded her ripping the photo of that pope. I realized much later how evil he was after all of the stories of the raping of children became common news. I left the church before that event.

FailureToCommunicate

(14,080 posts)
9. When my father met Pope John Paul, he gave him a similar message. His holiness pretended not
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 09:16 AM
Jul 2023

to understand 'American English'.

Needless to say, he was not invited back to the Vatican.

Pope John Paul himself may not have been evil, but the institution he represented had (has) many evil actors.

soldierant

(7,120 posts)
33. JP2 was a conservative catholic
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 06:14 PM
Jul 2023

and conservatism seems always to empower evil, be it in the church or the state, John XXIII and JP1 were more like Francis. Both had very short papacies (to some, suspiciously short.) John accomplished Vatican II but didn't live much longer and JP1 didn't live long enough to really accomplish anything. My impression was that neither would have tolerated abuse but I have no hard evidence and certainly could be wrong.

Abigail_Adams

(316 posts)
8. I agree.
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 09:16 AM
Jul 2023

He needed a rhyme for "world" and it's nitpicky to complain about "little girl." It may be a reference to the intense vulnerability she must have felt standing alone at that mic as boos rained down on her, or maybe not, but it's no big deal.

Botany

(70,846 posts)
6. Strong words from Kris!
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 08:54 AM
Jul 2023

"And maybe she's crazy and maybe she ain't
But so was Picasso and so were the saints
And she's never been partial to shackles or chains
She's too old for breaking and too young to tame"

Sinéad was well aware of the abuses that people suffered
@ the hands of the Catholic Church in Ireland such as "The
Laundry Women of Ireland." Where the Catholic Church kept
"fallen women" as slaves and blamed them for being humans
and not being perfect Catholics and hey if the nuns beat them
or they were turned out as sex slaves or if they died oh well
they bodies could just be buried on the grounds of the church
run prisons called the Magdalene Laundries.

From Wiki:

The Magdalene Laundries in Ireland, also known as Magdalene asylums, were institutions usually run by Roman Catholic orders, which operated from the 18th to the late 20th centuries. They were run ostensibly to house "fallen women", an estimated 30,000 of whom were confined in these institutions in Ireland. In 1993, unmarked graves of 155 women were uncovered in the convent grounds of one of the laundries. This led to media revelations about the operations of the secretive institutions. A formal state apology was issued in 2013, and a £50 million compensation scheme for survivors was set up by the Irish Government. The religious orders which operated the laundries have rejected activist demands that they financially contribute to this programme



littlemissmartypants

(23,121 posts)
31. Why am I not surprised? Thanks for sharing this Botany. As horrible as it is...
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 05:50 PM
Jul 2023

Sunlight is a strong disinfectant. ❤️

FakeNoose

(33,315 posts)
34. There's a wonderful movie starring Judi Dench, called "Philomena"
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 06:18 PM
Jul 2023


It's a true story that touches on this very subject. Judy Dench plays a middle-aged Irish woman who as a teenager gave birth out-of-wedlock, and the nuns gave or sold her baby to an American couple. It doesn't sound like a happy story, but after looking for most of her life she finds her long-lost son who has grown into a fine young American man. Steve Coogan plays the reporter who helps her search for her son.

The movie is about 10 years old, and it really does have an upbeat narrative. However the truth is that most of the unfortunate young women who gave up their babies to the nuns in Ireland weren't so lucky. I believe the practice stopped in the mid-1960s, so Sinead O'Connor wouldn't have been a victim of the horrid baby-stealing nuns. (It doesn't seem likely.) But perhaps Sinead knew someone who was a victim? One wonders.

Deuxcents

(16,714 posts)
39. I saw this movie with a friend of mine who is a devout Catholic..
Fri Jul 28, 2023, 12:17 AM
Jul 2023

We had a couple of very good discussions..some personal and some about the movie as it made an impression on both of us.

Response to Botany (Reply #6)

yonder

(9,713 posts)
38. Joni Mitchell also had something to say about this in her fine song Magdalene Laundries:
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 11:35 PM
Jul 2023

It begins about 2:30 after her worthwhile intro

yardwork

(61,965 posts)
7. I saw that, and have never forgotten it.
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 08:57 AM
Jul 2023

He showed her kindness, respect, and strength. What a great moment.

slightlv

(3,030 posts)
12. I'm 67 years old
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 09:47 AM
Jul 2023

95 pounds and 4' 9" tall... hubby calls me his "little girl", as do two of my best friends (one male, one female)... it's done in love. Not a misogynistic bone among any of them. Someone said Kris also needed the poetic license, and I agree with that, also.

I missed the SNL episode, although I sure heard about it! I missed her music while she was alive, though I've definitely been hearing it now. I'm sorry I missed it. It could have given me comfort in some bad times I went through.

I feel so deeply for this woman; the troubles she suffered throughout her life. I don't understand her turning from one religion of the "Book" only to turn to another one of the "Book" that was just as misogynistic. I can't help but feel she would have found such power and comfort through her own ancient Celtic Paganism. But maybe she felt that was a step too far away that she just couldn't traverse. We'll never know. I just feel so bad for her, especially to have lost a child as she did. You just don't get over that.

May she rest in peace. But more than that - May she rest in Power.

She will be missed.

Music Man

(1,187 posts)
18. Always been a fan of Kris Kristofferson.
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 10:06 AM
Jul 2023

Love his music, and he's lived quite the life. Rhodes Scholar, helicopter pilot in the Army, actor, songwriter.

He is the real deal of a country singer, like Willie Nelson. Not an "America is going to shove a boot in your ass" types.

thebigidea

(13,169 posts)
23. Seems a lot more complicated than that from her point of view
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 10:27 AM
Jul 2023

she tweeted:

“I would not agree Kris wasn’t toxically masculine. He took full advantage when he got the chance #NoHeroOfMine.”

"In case my use of the words “took advantage” an earlier tweet might be misconstrued I wish to make clear that in no way, shape or form was I in any way sexually assaulted by Kris Kristoffersen. And that the one time we did have sex, it was consensual.”

druidity33

(6,465 posts)
40. Yeah...
Sat Jul 29, 2023, 07:05 AM
Jul 2023

at the time i thought, she really doesn't want him standing there next to her, does she? Her body language says it all.



RobinA

(9,951 posts)
26. Dylan Fans
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 11:55 AM
Jul 2023

booed someone for speaking her mind against a very powerful political figure? Talk about clueless.

mamacita75

(74 posts)
27. Sinead/Kris
Thu Jul 27, 2023, 02:02 PM
Jul 2023

I had no idea Kris had written a song about her. Thank you for posting this. I love Kris and Sinead is a legend. Brave, courageous and honest!

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