General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow do we stop gun violence/mass shootings
With over 393 million LEGAL guns out there (no idea as to how many illegal guns), how do you stop mass shootings?
Serious question...
15 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited | |
Confiscate | |
0 (0%) |
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Expanded background checks | |
2 (13%) |
|
Painfully tax ammunition | |
5 (33%) |
|
Eliminate Constitutional/Concealed carry | |
2 (13%) |
|
Buy-back programs | |
0 (0%) |
|
Other-explain | |
6 (40%) |
|
1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided. | |
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Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll |
uponit7771
(90,371 posts)Last edited Mon Apr 4, 2022, 04:31 PM - Edit history (1)
radicalleft
(482 posts)Please expand...
uponit7771
(90,371 posts)I think the anomaly in the software so far has been covid but as things get back to normal so should area level pre crime
Law enforcement has become more effective with pre-crime technology and predictive policing. In Chicago, one of the largest and most crime-intensive cities, officials attribute decreased crime rates to predictive policing efforts. Consider also the capability to snuff out crimes before they occur by culling and monitoring data from social media. When used judiciously, predictive policing can also improve targeting by law enforcement agencies and help mitigate inevitable law enforcement biases.
radicalleft
(482 posts)Thanks!
gibraltar72
(7,518 posts)There must be a change in our culture.
Amishman
(5,559 posts)Several of those options probably won't pass constitutional review. Confiscation and extreme ammo taxes fall in that category. Full elimination of concealed carry probably wouldn't pass either. Same for mandatory buybacks.
I'm also wondering if supply side restrictions will be effective at all long term. 3D printing and home manufacturing is only going to advance.
Gun violence falls into several categories.
Domestic violence probably is the hardest to mitigate.
Gang and drug trade ultimately has deep roots in poverty and lack of opportunity. That can be reduced by addressing those reasons. Gun violence as apart of theft also falls in this bucket.
So many modern problems come from economic inequality and the robbing of the American public by the top 1%
Blues Heron
(5,954 posts)They gave us the whiteout we need to get rid of outdated amendments like 2a. We just need to use it. Every massacre pushes us a little closer as people stare in abject horror at the evil situation the gun kooks have put us in.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)the 2A isnt there.
Blues Heron
(5,954 posts)so it is possible albeit unlikely anytime soon.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)of modifying (let alone repealing) the 2A are nil for the foreseeable future.
Blues Heron
(5,954 posts)I think if they had known what it would lead to they would not have written the 2a the way they did. You are right though - we are in this nightmare for the foreseeable future.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)Modern firearms are extraordinarily durable with only minimal care. They will literally last for centuries. Ammunition isnt quite as long lasting, but Ive personally shot ammo over a century old, and it typically goes bang almost every time.
Even if measures such as expanded background checks, assault weapons bans, etc., were passed at the national level another hundred million firearms are still being manufactured/imported every decade.
Guns are here to stay.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Beastly Boy
(9,581 posts)Make every round traceable to the purchaser, and make every purchaser accountable for every round fired.
Also: mandatory gun safety and handling training for every firearm before purchase.
Shanti Shanti Shanti
(12,047 posts)Anyone connected to enable deadly shooting should get life sentence. Lock them up and throw away key.
And confiscation of all family members houses, cars, possessions, destroy the criminals families lives forever too.
LiberatedUSA
(1,666 posts)Its the only way to be sure.
Celerity
(43,771 posts)Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)And confiscation of all family members houses, cars, possessions, destroy the criminals families lives forever too.
"You are charged with being the sister of someone who shot someone to death. How do you plead?"
"Um....guilty?"
"I sentence you to having everything you own confiscated. Don't bother going home, you don't have one now. I will allow you to keep the clothes on your back. There's no need to be cruel. Bailiff, take her purse."
"But...you just took all of my money and credit cards! Where am I going to sleep? How can I get food?"
"You should have thought about that before you became his sister. Next case!"
Srkdqltr
(6,386 posts)The message has to get to people to stop shooting others. If there is one gun left someone will shoot someone else with it. There is no way on earth to confiscate guns. People have to stop shooting people. There is no other answer. It doesn't seem to matter who or how many are killed with guns the shooting continues.
You can make all the laws. Use any example but it is up to people.
Blues Heron
(5,954 posts)Those are all rational modern developed countries that just don't have daily massacres the way we do. It doesn't have to be like this.
Sancho
(9,072 posts)This is my generic response to gun threads where people are shot and killed by the dumb or criminal possession of guns. For the record, I grew up in the South and on military bases. I was taught about firearms as a child, and I grew up hunting, was a member of the NRA, and I still own guns. In the 70s, I dropped out of the NRA because they become more radical and less interested in safety and training. Some personal experiences where people I know were involved in shootings caused me to realize that anyone could obtain and posses a gun no matter how illogical it was for them to have a gun. Also, easy access to more powerful guns, guns in the hands of children, and guns that werent secured are out of control in our society. As such, heres what I now think ought to be the requirements to possess a gun. Im not debating the legal language, I just think its the reasonable way to stop the shootings. Notice, none of this restricts the type of guns sold. This is aimed at the people who shoot others, because its clear that they should never have had a gun.
1.) Anyone in possession of a gun (whether they own it or not) should have a regularly renewed license. If you want to call it a permit, certificate, or something else that's fine.
2.) To get a license, you should have a background check, and be examined by a professional for emotional and mental stability appropriate for gun possession. It might be appropriate to require that examination to be accompanied by references from family, friends, employers, etc. This check is not to subject you to a mental health diagnosis, just check on your superficial and apparent gun-worthyness.
3.) To get the license, you should be required to take a safety course and pass a test appropriate to the type of gun you want to use.
4.) To get a license, you should be over 21. Under 21, you could only use a gun under direct supervision of a licensed person and after obtaining a learners license. Your license might be restricted if you have children or criminals or other unsafe people living in your home. (If you want to argue 18 or 25 or some other age, fine. 21 makes sense to me.)
5.) If you possess a gun, you would have to carry a liability insurance policy specifically for gun ownership - and likely you would have to provide proof of appropriate storage, security, and whatever statistical reasons that emerge that would drive the costs and ability to get insurance.
6.) You could not purchase a gun or ammunition without a license, and purchases would have a waiting period.
7.) If you possess a gun without a license, you go to jail, the gun is impounded, and a judge will have to let you go (just like a DUI).
8.) No one should carry an unsecured gun (except in a locked case, unloaded) when outside of home. Guns should be secure when transporting to a shooting event without demonstrating a special need. Their license should indicate training and special carry circumstances beyond recreational shooting (security guard, etc.). If you are carrying your gun while under the influence of drugs or alcohol, you lose your gun and license.
9.) If you buy, sell, give away, or inherit a gun, your license information should be recorded.
10.) If you accidentally discharge your gun, commit a crime, get referred by a mental health professional, are served a restraining order, etc., you should lose your license and guns until reinstated by a serious relicensing process.
Most of you know that a license is no big deal. Besides a drivers license you need a license to fish, operate a boat, or many other activities. I realize these differ by state, but that is not a reason to let anyone without a bit of sense pack a semiautomatic weapon in public, on the roads, and in schools. I think we need to make it much harder for some people to have guns.
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)Gun control. My prediction, they will never stop here.
Make gun manufacturers and sellers libel for deaths, maybe, but that will never happen.
bif
(22,829 posts)That seems to be the Republican answer.
Doc_Technical
(3,530 posts)we should apply the same laws for semi-automatic weapons.
The penalties for violating these laws should be severe
(mandatory prison sentences)
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)The courts would throw such a measure out the moment it was enacted. The common use rationale in the Heller case alone would invalidate it.
PJMcK
(22,074 posts)The genie is out of the bottle. There's no way to put the toothpaste back in the tube.
Not with nearly 400 million guns. It can't and won't happen.
Sadly, I believe we're stuck with the guns and he resulting violence.
MissMillie
(38,611 posts)complexity is not a vice.
There is absolutely no 10-word answer to this question.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,117 posts)'Merica chose this path. Now we are suffering the consequences.
sanatanadharma
(3,761 posts)Until the "it will never happen" surrenders shut up, nothing will change.
Until sane people among us begin to call out EVERY gun desiring*-owner as a danger to our society, nothing will change.
Until 'gun-desirers' are shunned as a despised population, nothing will change.
Until every 2nd-A defender is laughed at as a selfish, anti-social fool, nothing will change.
Until every gun used in a crime is destroyed, not resold, not returned if stolen, noting will change.
Until laws make dangerous gun use prohibitively ponderous to pursue (as in life sentences for all crimes with guns), nothing will change.
Until we try creating laws, excise taxes, insurance requirements, over and over again at all levels (like anti-abortionists have), nothing will change.
The Supreme Court of the USA will change. It has before. The nine are not Gods to be propitiated by blood sacrifices.
* "Desire" is the key word. Having guns is one thing; desiring guns is dangerous.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,522 posts)Instead, prevention around mental health (including education around emotional health and relationships); better health care; higher wages; more opportunities for people in employment, socialization and recreation; etc., etc. Things that would improve all of our lives in incredible ways.
Hangingon
(3,071 posts)Start with the shooters and not the guns. Go back to stop, question and frisk and other pre-active techniques.
NutmegYankee
(16,207 posts)Police need to have reasonable suspicion of a crime to stop and detain someone. Just randomly stopping people, usually minorities, does not meet that legal requirement.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)Just check out the current thread with over 200 posts where many are calling for the first amendment to be ignored or repealed.
Hangingon
(3,071 posts)The new mayor NYC is asking about gun law enforcement and offering sensible plans. They involve going after the gun carriers and shooters.
If we are truly interested in solving the problem, we have to find the will to solve it. Chicago has wailed about gun violence for decades but has done nothing but find reasons not to.
Finally, if we can so easily do away with the 2nd amendment, we can do away with the 4th. See the slippery slope.
brooklynite
(95,012 posts)Legal gun sales in NYC are virtually non-existent, except for law enforcement
If you're willing to commit a crime with a gun, you're willing to commit a crime to get a gun.
Hangingon
(3,071 posts)I am all for attacking the supply chain. In all these decades, why hasnt it been done. The crooked gun shops are known. Why hasnt BATF closed them. Out of state, unlicensed sale of firearms is a Federal crime. Why hasnt it been closed by the FEDS. We have the means to drastically reduce straw purchases or punish the purchaser after they are identified, but we dont. District attorneys often trade off gun charges to get out of court deals. Why?
Now we do not allow police to stop known gang members who are know for violence because they are members of the protected class. Do we really want to solve this problem? It likes we dont.
Our Answer is to go after gun nuts. That is people who are not involved in the shootouts. But these people generally vote conservative, so it is a good answer. This leads us to talk about confiscating 4 billion guns, put prohibitive taxes on guns and ammunition and to license, educate and place waiting periods on gun purchases. Theses seem satisfying, but will not solve the problem.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)you speak of will not (by your own admission) solve the problem.
Hangingon
(3,071 posts)I am a gun nut, a moderate democrat ( hence the Hangingon) and a pragmatic person.I am careful who I buy from and sell to. Walked out of guns store that gave me a shady feeling.
I was replying to the calls for puntative legislation aimed at gun owners who do not engage in shootouts - I.e. not part of the problem. I have little patients with the abolish Constitutional amendments - second amendment or other.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)Hangingon
(3,071 posts)Im having trouble keeping Allies straight on this thread too.
Hangingon
(3,071 posts)Im having trouble keeping Allies straight on this thread too.
NutmegYankee
(16,207 posts)If so, you're probably on the wrong website.
Hangingon
(3,071 posts)I hear things on this board that suggest curtailing or ending all sorts of constitutional rights - guns and religion come to mind. Actually abolishing peoples rights will have political push back.
Hotler
(11,484 posts)Tax the shit out of it to start with. Use those funds to fund the cops and cut back on tax payer money. Stop online ammo sales. Maybe a 10-day waiting period.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)You cant tax a constitutional right out of existence.
Amishman
(5,559 posts)Though with an interesting caveat that they seemed to be ok if a modest tax with the proceeds going to crime prevention efforts.
Law was a cook county ammunition tax
A tax big enough to impede use and ownership would not pass the scrutiny and criteria of that ruling. While that was a state supreme court and not federal, it was a solidly blue court and about as friendly to our party as we are likely to find.
maxsolomon
(33,473 posts)You want the gun, you spend 2 weekends a year doing militia training.
It is necessary for the security of a free state, after all.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)maxsolomon
(33,473 posts)YOU have to do 4 weekends.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)Um
interesting proposal.
YOU have to do 4 weekends.
maxsolomon
(33,473 posts)People in wheelchairs can have guns if they do the militia training. Accommodations will be made.
I don't have a gun, nor do I care to, so I don't have to do any weekends.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)gear. How exactly would that work for someone in a wheelchair, someone who weighs over 300 lbs, or someone more than 70 years old?
I have many guns (because I care to), so I don't have to do any weekends either...because the chance of your proposal coming to pass is somewhere south of slim and none.
maxsolomon
(33,473 posts)I've been on DU 20 years, and after any mass shooting, there's always a gunner quibbler just like you.
There is simply no point in putting forward ANY serious gun control proposals in this armed madhouse of a nation. You know it, and I know it, and so do DU's gunners and DU's gun grabbers. Nothing will move in the direction of sanity for the remainder of our lifetimes.
The 2nd amendment is what it is: a national suicide pact. I just hope to stay out of the crossfire.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)As for there not being any chance of substantive gun control coming to pass, I quite agree with you.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)MarineCombatEngineer
(12,543 posts)Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)Hangingon
(3,071 posts)How about lunch?
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)The stuff costs around $10 a round...if you can find it.
Yes, but it's 10 year old MREs.
Hangingon
(3,071 posts)Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)to explore its ramifications.
Response to maxsolomon (Reply #32)
Dial H For Hero This message was self-deleted by its author.
Mr. Sparkle
(2,958 posts)Chainfire
(17,757 posts)Guns are a convenient tool for killing the most people in the shortest time, but the root of most of the killing lies in hopelessness, poverty, and lack of education, unequal opportunity and self treating of those maladies by the use of prohibited drugs or alcohol. Republicans refuse to address these kinds of issues, because the retain power from supporting gun owners. Guns, like abortion, are issues that are good for the Republican Party. A fair, just, society, with opportunity for all would reduce gun violence faster than any other measures. With liberty and justice for all...
I do think that it would make sense to handle "assault rifles" like the way we do machine guns. A permanent ban on high capacity magazines would reduce the carnage. Even these changes would be the Reichstag fire that the far right has been waiting for and would probably cause more rather than less bloodshed. It would give the anarchists an excuse to wage war on the rest of us. It is a highly complex problem and they do not come with simple solutions. Closing the economic divide would be a damn good start.
Hangingon
(3,071 posts)Take them out of video games, music, theater and music and popular literature. It doesnt mean we cant discuss the problem. Just dont portray them as tHings of glamor.
Chainfire
(17,757 posts)How do you curb the propaganda supported by the 19.5 billion dollar gun and ammo business? They have the economic power to out-gun us at the movies and at the polls.
The investors don't care how many people have to die to keep those dollars rolling in. Violence sells.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)to be ignored or repealed.
Hangingon
(3,071 posts)Use rating boards, public ridicule, make the books, movies and tv shows unavailable - all the tools. Society can bring to bear. We have barred the N word from use.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)They vote with their wallets. How could you make (for example) the Call of Duty games unpopular, let alone unavailable? It's one of the most popular video games ever made.
Amishman
(5,559 posts)I live in a very red apart of rural PA.
There's no one to do the ridiculing, and if there was, they'd love it.
With the zealots on the other side, our scorn is taken as a compliment.
Shaming only works if the recipient has the capacity to feel it
Chainfire
(17,757 posts)Or, easier than that, simply define the phrase, "well regulated militia" in 2A to more closely align with its meaning when the amendment was written. I am a plumber, not a Constitutional scholar, but, I do not believe that a "Well regulated militia" includes
drug gangs, white Supremist, or toothless rednecks training to overthrow the legitimate government in order to Make America Great Again. I could be wrong...But I have a little more faith in the wisdom of our founders than that.
It is all academic anyway. No one has the courage to challenge a nearly 20 billion dollar gun and ammo business. It is far easier to just pray for the families of the victims. Our gun problem is like a runaway train, breaks gone, screaming down a mountain, the only thing that will stop it is the huge crash that is coming.
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)By simply requesting it, or by government mandate?
48656c6c6f20
(7,638 posts)Because today is Monday and Pootin might use nukes.
Oops I mean because it's Monday and we haven't ever ever ever repealed anything.
Wait I mean. Well I don't know. I just know we've been told we can't. So that's that.
sarisataka
(18,926 posts)You can't.
Human behavior and the fact guns exist on the planet means there will always be a non-zero risk.
So how do we reduce shootings (mass or otherwise)?
The answer is one most people don't want to hear. It is more of a software problem than hardware.
In our real world, options 1 and 3 are unconstitutional. The Amendment is not going to be repealed in any of our lifetimes. Option 4 isn't happening either; today 22 states have Constitutional carry and on January 1 it will be at least 25. Studies have shown "buy backs" have no measurable effect so the only thing on the list that may help is the only thing that has a chance of passing- expand background checks.
The things that will help are harder to do and will take much more work. Address the socio-economic factors that drive most crime (including gun crimes). To reduce mass shootings we need to address our tolerance and glorification of violence as a solution. We just saw a man slap another on world wide live TV because of an improper joke. Is it any wonder that our society mirrors and magnifies this.
Imagine the same situation in a high-school today. What are the chances the person slapped would seek revenge, possibly using a gun?
radicalleft
(482 posts)People get shot for some really stupid reasons and some for no reason at all.
Chainfire
(17,757 posts)Last edited Mon Apr 4, 2022, 12:41 PM - Edit history (1)
Most families had a shotgun and a rifle. (we had no firearms at home) Some families had an old revolver in the house. The rifle was for harvesting deer, the shotgun was for small game and the revolver spent most of its time in a dresser drawer. You had to convince a sheriff or judge that you had a good reason to carry a pistol on your person, so few people did. The guns were primarily for recreational hunting. Ammo supplies would have typically an open box of shells or cartridges, and a box of "deer" rounds would last usually more than one season.
Today, it is much different. Most people claim to have guns for "protection." I suspect that a typical neighbor will have the firearms mentioned above plus at least one semi-auto pistol and one or more semi-auto, removable, high-capacity magazine rifles; typically a lot more than just one... Instead of an open box of ammo, they will feel "unarmed" without ten thousand rounds stashed in an old ammo can, and maybe more buried out back, "just in case." Most adults will have a concealed weapons permit and will carry their guns whenever they go out in public; again to protect themselves from bad guys with guns... The additional weapons in the modern arsenal (and they are weapons as opposed to tools) are in preparation for the SHTF scenarios that they are sure are coming. After all they will have to protect their families from all of those blacks, browns and liberals who are coming for their guns and their freedom; and if not to directly "protect" their families, there will probably come a day when they need to return the people of color liberals, athiests, Jews and other Untermensch in their proper places in society.
Hateful propaganda, beginning with radio shows, and continuing on TV has fostered the change in people's attitudes. Hate radio and the NRA has done more for the gun and ammo business than all of the direct advertising that they could ever buy. Guns haven't changed as much as people.
radicalleft
(482 posts)I think you are absolutely right about the SHTF thoughts. I find myself on the other end of that spectrum, but fearing a RW/authoritarian scenario. They have armed up the "crazies" so what is the "liberal" who believes in protecting themselves against this supposed to do?
IcyPeas
(21,955 posts)Crunchy Frog
(26,719 posts)Zeitghost
(3,896 posts)Why not talk about policy changes that do and actually have a chance of getting passed (eventually)?
End drug prohibition and the violence it causes.
Fix the problems causing generational poverty.
Rebuild our inner city neighborhoods and provide opportunities for their residents.
hunter
(38,353 posts)One way or another, fools and their guns were soon parted.
At least one of my great grandmothers was the sort of woman who could call her friend the sheriff to clean up any mess.
The trouble with guys is testosterone. Once they've got a gun in their hands they all think they're heroes. Even the bad guys think they are heroes. Maybe especially the bad guys.
You think I'm kidding.
Gun fetishes are disgusting.
Most U.S. Americans don't care enough about guns to bother owning one. That's a very reasonable perspective. Who needs that shit?
The current interpretation of the second amendment is flaming bullshit.
At one time I was competent enough as a hunter not to shoot anyone or any animal I wouldn't eat, but now I'm mostly vegetarian.
And seriously, it's always better to wear shoes you can run in than carry a gun for "self defense."
Dial H For Hero
(2,971 posts)manicdem
(397 posts)Lifetime sentence with no parole for anyone committing a crime of violence with a gun.