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Mon Oct 8, 2012, 03:21 AM

Secession? Secession! You have got to be kidding me.

Are y'all daft?

The Southern states you think are so hot to trot to secede have, in many cases, large groups of minorities and groups of whites who have no desire to fire on Fort Sumter or join those who do.

If some moran or morans make such a declaration, the eruption in the states will be a sight. Do you think that all of us are going to blithely join a group of idiots who, as LBJ put it, 'can't pour piss out of a boot with directions on the heel.'

As I told a drunken KA(oxymoron) in college, Lincoln, Robert E. Lee, and Stonewall are dead. Why would I follow somebody who sees 2 of everything on most occasions?

There would be internecine fighting within the states. If there is any revolt, it is more likely to come from morans further west. Even there it is not a done deal if somebody jumps up and tries to lead the way.

Many accuse the South of having long memories. We do, and we remember the tragedy that was the war and its aftermath. It is not some marvelous time a lot of us want to revisit.

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Reply Secession? Secession! You have got to be kidding me. (Original post)
Are_grits_groceries Oct 2012 OP
Journeyman Oct 2012 #1
Are_grits_groceries Oct 2012 #2
Historic NY Oct 2012 #3
roguevalley Oct 2012 #21
Mariana Oct 2012 #31
Historic NY Oct 2012 #32
HiPointDem Oct 2012 #40
roguevalley Oct 2012 #49
orpupilofnature57 Oct 2012 #52
orpupilofnature57 Oct 2012 #53
Art_from_Ark Oct 2012 #72
Buns_of_Fire Oct 2012 #5
Pab Sungenis Oct 2012 #29
HillWilliam Oct 2012 #50
Pab Sungenis Oct 2012 #63
HillWilliam Oct 2012 #74
Downwinder Oct 2012 #4
JustAnotherGen Oct 2012 #6
Bucky Oct 2012 #10
JustAnotherGen Oct 2012 #20
Are_grits_groceries Oct 2012 #11
JustAnotherGen Oct 2012 #19
ErikJ Oct 2012 #54
malaise Oct 2012 #7
Bucky Oct 2012 #9
OldDem2012 Oct 2012 #18
Confusious Oct 2012 #57
OldDem2012 Oct 2012 #67
coldwaterintheface Oct 2012 #8
Viva_La_Revolution Oct 2012 #24
fadedrose Oct 2012 #27
kentauros Oct 2012 #33
coldwaterintheface Oct 2012 #45
kentauros Oct 2012 #47
coldwaterintheface Oct 2012 #48
kentauros Oct 2012 #56
Confusious Oct 2012 #60
kentauros Oct 2012 #61
OldDem2012 Oct 2012 #69
cordelia Oct 2012 #58
Paladin Oct 2012 #12
Are_grits_groceries Oct 2012 #13
Paladin Oct 2012 #14
Are_grits_groceries Oct 2012 #15
Fawke Em Oct 2012 #22
vinny9698 Oct 2012 #16
Are_grits_groceries Oct 2012 #17
Fawke Em Oct 2012 #23
hedgehog Oct 2012 #25
coalition_unwilling Oct 2012 #30
4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #35
NoGOPZone Oct 2012 #81
bluestate10 Oct 2012 #65
Art_from_Ark Oct 2012 #80
get the red out Oct 2012 #26
gordianot Oct 2012 #28
sharkman25 Oct 2012 #34
4th law of robotics Oct 2012 #36
sharkman25 Oct 2012 #38
Initech Oct 2012 #37
nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #39
Are_grits_groceries Oct 2012 #41
nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #42
Are_grits_groceries Oct 2012 #43
nadinbrzezinski Oct 2012 #44
bluestate10 Oct 2012 #66
Scootaloo Oct 2012 #46
cordelia Oct 2012 #59
Scootaloo Oct 2012 #62
Are_grits_groceries Oct 2012 #70
Scootaloo Oct 2012 #73
cordelia Oct 2012 #75
Scootaloo Oct 2012 #78
southernyankeebelle Oct 2012 #51
BainsBane Oct 2012 #55
hrmjustin Oct 2012 #64
Ter Oct 2012 #68
cbrer Oct 2012 #71
faith woos science Oct 2012 #76
Raster Oct 2012 #77
RC Oct 2012 #79

Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 03:25 AM

1. "4 Big Reasons, Plus A Bunch Of Smaller Reasons, Why The South Won’t ‘Rise Again’". . .

An interesting article I came across the other day. Thought you might find it interesting. . .


http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/09/29/4-big-reasons-plus-a-bunch-of-smaller-reasons-why-the-south-wont-rise-again/

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Response to Journeyman (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 03:58 AM

2. Ha!

Love the list!
Good and bad.

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Response to Journeyman (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 04:13 AM

3. I'd add all that northern tax money that gets redistributed to them.

States receiving the most federal funding per tax dollar paid:
1. New Mexico: $2.63
2. West Virginia: $2.57
3. Mississippi: $2.47
4. District of Colombia: $2.41
5. Hawaii: $2.38
6. Alabama: $2.03
7. Alaska: $1.93
8. Montana: $1.92
9. South Carolina: $1.92
10. Maine: $1.78.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/11/states-federal-taxes-spending-charts-maps

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #3)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 10:21 AM

21. considering the first four are among the poorest i have no problem

With the distribution of taxes. Just saying.

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #21)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:22 AM

31. I don't think many people on this site have a problem with it.

It's a point to mention to the neo-secessionists when they claim the Southern (and the other Republican leaning) states would be better off without the rest of the nation. They wouldn't be.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #31)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:45 AM

32. Thats the point.

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #21)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:33 PM

40. dc is poor?

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #40)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 07:43 PM

49. the big scandal of DC is beyond the beautiful buildings are slums filled with poverty.

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #49)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:12 PM

52. I was in shock as an Innocent 17 yr old . n/t

 

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #3)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:15 PM

53. That's why we won the war , New Yorks wealth alone was

 

more than the entire South .

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #3)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 02:57 AM

72. But there are only 3 Southern states on that list

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Response to Journeyman (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 05:43 AM

5. Tellingly, "Honey Boo Boo" was on the list. I must agree with that.

But I couldn't tell if the author intended "grits" to be a plus or a minus.

For reasons I cannot divulge at this point, grits are, in fact, our secret weapon for world domination. Sensitive negotiations have been in progress for many years with Minnesota to join forces with the lutefisk contingent. Once a few sticking points have been resolved (the introduction of Quaker "Instant Grits 'n' Lye" was a giant flop, for example), we will be unstoppable.

Uff da, y'all.

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Response to Buns_of_Fire (Reply #5)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:16 AM

29. We don't need your grits.

 

We have polenta. Game set and match.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Reply #29)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:06 PM

50. Uh, Babydoll

Polenta is just a fancy name for grits. Grits is grits

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Response to HillWilliam (Reply #50)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 10:23 PM

63. I know that.

 

Which is why we don't need their grits.

Nyah.

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Response to Pab Sungenis (Reply #63)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 05:52 AM

74. Just wait until we have a get-together

and you taste my cornbread and pulled-pork barbecue. OK, if you're not into pork, try hubby's chicken. If nothing else, we *know* how to feed bears!

Oh, and "THEIR"... "THEIR"...??

I owe you a

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 04:30 AM

4. Texas, take a chance of being kicked out of the NFL, no way.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 06:38 AM

6. I read this book in August

http://www.amazon.com/Better-Off-Without-Manifesto-Secession/dp/1451616651


Better Off Without 'Em: A Northern Manifesto for Southern Secession -

Chuck Thompson takes a hysterical look at the "threat" of "The South Is Gonna Do It Again" and turns the tables on the Take Our Country Back Crowd.

I have hesitated to post a review because we do have so many staunch liberal and progressive members at DU who come from the 14 states he makes a strong argument *nudge* for the rest of the country INSIST the South leaves the union.

The serious side of the book (layered throughout the humor) is the vast inequality that still exists in the South today. Example - how can we head into the future when the public school system is broken and RE- segregated? With people who wish to continue the inequality by their push of "charter" schools and the massive number of "Christian" (read whites only) schools that have sprung up in retaliation to the Brown V Board cases? Would the US be better to leave those 14 states Thompson outlines behind? Allow them to go so they can take science off the table and teach creationism without United States interference?

He touches on everything from the SEC College Football shakedown to the Jesus/Creation Museums, to the very definition of a Southern Strategy by one political party who benefits from the entrenchment of Confederate values, and how it could even become a huge tourist point for Americans . . . IE - made into an exotic foreign locale akin to Tanzania or Belize.

Might be worth a read - because while funny - its also a terribly sad analysis of perhaps WHY non Southerners and those who have no roots in the South (I'm in the North East - raised here but have Alabama red clay in veins) say . . . Why didn't we just let them go when we had the chance?

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #6)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 07:06 AM

10. The "let 'em go" crowd are as big a bunch of dumbfucks as the secessionists.

And all of them are mostly irrelevant. As long as there's cable tv, there won't be another war between the states

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Response to Bucky (Reply #10)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 09:41 AM

20. No

But I do suspect in my lifetime the domestic terrorism from Separatist groups is going to ramp up. I truly believe that. And let's not forget - Tim McVeigh was from just south of Buffalo NY.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #6)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 07:17 AM

11. 'Had the Chance'

HAD
There was a war fought to keep the country together.

And why on Earth do you want to just ignore the many people who don't deserve such a fate?

And what about those western states and others that are bright red? Giving them a pass? Some of them are home to some of the most virulent militias ever.
Look in your own damn back yard and turn over some rocks. You might be unpleasantly surprised what you find?
As I remember, Boston had a time integrating their schools.

In addition, you are hearing the loudest and most ignorant voices here. They are frantic and getting louder because they can read the tea leaves. They are doing everything in their power to entrench themselves. It would be easier to get rid of chiggers all over your body.

So, meh to you, that book, and everyone who wants us gone. We ain't going anywhere. Help those of us who are working in horrible conditions to move forward. I didn't live through the awful '60s and the hard won rights for people in these states to watch everyone shrug and say let them go.

MLK would be ashamed of everyone of you! Find a book of his speeches and writings and try to catch a clue. Read his 'Letter From The Birmingham Jail!'
Medgar Evers
Schwerner, Chaney, and Goodman
Emmitt Till
And remember these people too. Explain to their relatives why you want us gone.
The 40 Who Fell in the Turbulence Of the U.S. Battles for Civil Rights
A civil rights memorial to be dedicated Sunday includes the names of the 40 people killed in the movement. The list, in chronological sequence, gives the date and circumstances of the person's death as described on the memorial. LEE, the Rev. George, killed May 7, 1955, for leading a voter registration drive in Belzoni, Miss. SMITH, Lamar, 63 years old, slain Aug. 13, 1955, for organizing black voters in Brookhaven, Miss. TILL, Emmett Louis, 14, slain Aug. 28, 1955, for speaking to a white woman in Money, Miss. REESE, John Earl, 16, slain Oct. 22, 1955, by nightriders opposed to black school improvements in Mayflower, Tex. EDWARDS, Willie Jr., killed Jan. 23, 1957, by the Ku Klux Klan in Montgomery, Ala. PARKER, Mack Charles, 23, taken from a jail and lynched April 25, 1959, in Poplarville, Miss. LEE, Herbert, 50, voter registration worker, killed Sept. 25, 1961, by a white legislator in Liberty, Miss. DUCKSWORTH, Roman Jr., taken from bus and killed April 9, 1962, by the police in Taylorsville, Miss. GUIHARD, Paul, a European reporter, killed Sept. 30, 1962, in a riot at University of Mississippi in Oxford, Miss. MOORE, William Lewis, slain April 23, 1963, in a one-man march against segregation in Attalla, Ala. EVERS, Medgar, 28, civil rights leader, assassinated June 12, 1963, in Jackson, Miss. COLLINS, Addie Mae, 14, killed Sept. 15, 1963, in the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Ala. MCNAIR, Denise, 11, killed Sept. 15, 1963, in the Birmingham church bombing. ROBERTSON, Carole, 14, killed Sept. 15, 1963, in the church bombing. WESLEY, Cynthia, 14, killed Sept. 15, 1963, in the church bombing. WARE, Virgil Lamar, 13, killed Sept. 15, 1963, in a wave of racist violence in Birmingham, Ala. ALLEN, Louis, witness to the killing of a civil rights worker, assassinated Jan. 31, 1964, in Liberty, Miss. KLUNDER, the Rev. Bruce, killed April 7, 1964, protesting the construction of a segregated school in Cleveland. DEE, Henry Hezekiah, 19, killed May 2, 1964, by the Klan in Meadville, Miss. MOORE, Charles Eddie, 20, killed May 2, 1964, by the Klan in Meadville, Miss. CHANEY, James, 21, civil rights worker, abducted and slain June 21, 1964, by the Klan in Philadelphia, Miss. GOODMAN, Andrew, civil rights worker, abducted and slain June 21, 1964, by the Klan in Philadelphia, Miss. SCHWERNER, Michael, 24, rights worker, abducted and slain June 21, 1964, by the Klan in Philadelphia, Miss. PENN, Lemuel, 48, killed July 11, 1964, by the Klan while driving through Colbert, Ga. JACKSON, Jimmie Lee, civil rights marcher, killed Feb. 26, 1965, by a state trooper in Marion, Ala. REEB, the Rev. James, march volunteer, beaten to death on March 11, 1965 in Selma, Ala. LIUZZO, Viola Gregg, 39, killed March 25, 1965, by the Ku Klux Klan while transporting marchers on a highway near Selma, Ala. MOORE, Oneal, 34, black deputy, killed June 2, 1965, by nightriders in Varnado, La. BREWSTER, Willie Wallace, 38, killed July 18, 1965, by nightriders in Anniston, Ala. DANIELS, Jonathan, 26, seminary student, killed Aug. 20, 1965, by a part-time deputy in Hayneville, Ala. YOUNGE, Samuel Jr., student civil rights worker, killed Jan. 3, 1966, in a dispute over a whites-only restroom in Tuskegee, Ala. DAHMER, Vernon, black community leader, killed Jan. 10, 1966, in a Klan bombing in Hattiesburg, Miss. WHITE, Ben Chester, 67, killed June 10, 1966, by the Klan in Natchez, Miss. TRIGGS, Clarence, slain July 30, 1966, by nightriders in Bogalusa, La. JACKSON, Wharlest, 37, civil rights leader, killed Feb. 27, 1967, after promotion to ''white'' job in Natchez, Miss. BROWN, Benjamin, 22, civil rights worker, killed May 12, 1967, when the police fired on protesters in Jackson, Miss. HAMMOND, Samuel Jr., 18, killed Feb. 8, 1968, when highway patrolmen fired on protesters in Orangeburg, S.C. MIDDLETON, Delano, 17, killed Feb. 8, 1968, in the Orangeburg shootings. SMITH, Henry, student killed Feb. 8, 1968, in the Orangeburg shootings. KING, the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther Jr., 39, assassinated April 4, 1968 in Memphis.
http://www.nytimes.com/1989/11/04/us/the-40-who-fell-in-the-turbulence-of-the-us-battles-for-civil-rights.html

MEH!!!!!!!!!!!

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #11)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 09:36 AM

19. Um

All I did was share a book title - Sorry . . . Imagine I had written - Bill Maher or John Stewart had written it . . . It's very tongue in cheek. But as a black/mixed race person whose father/family toiled under the repressive regime called Jim Crow - please check your "MLK Would Be Ashamed of You All". I'm so sick and tired of white Americans telling Black folks shit like that!

Ask yourself - why did the well educated former Green Beret married to the white woman move her and his children to Rochester NY in 1978 at the end of his military career - instead of Talladega Alabama? MLK would have been ashamed of that decision too - But we do what we have to do to survive as brown people in America. Then -and now. No different than me vowing to never take my husband to Arizona/New Mexico (he's from Italy - and gives creedence to your point that if it happens it will happen somewhere from out West) because truthfully?

His olive skin and accent will make him a target for ignorance. Papers Please! Say it again! PAPERS PLEASE!

It's okay to be angry and upset at the CONCEPT - but don't just say - Well folks - you have nothing to be concerned about here.

We do - and I don't think I've seen so much racial polarity in my 39 years as I have the last 4. Just for food for thought that you might want to taste. Actually - we went down for a family visit in 1978 and ran into a little bit of trouble in a Dairy Queen - I.E. My mom wanting us to sit down inside. What's that about 'We've moved past that and remember.' Because I don't see much difference in this country between 1978 (hooooooooooow many years after MLK was shot???) and now.

I truly hope you are right Are_grits - I really truly hope you are right. But I see one hell of an ugly country. Truthfully? We suck on this issue. We just suck.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #6)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:23 PM

54. SELL the South to Canada or Mexico.

 

We cant just let em go for free. But on 2nd thought ...........

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 06:44 AM

7. The people who want a fight know nothing about history

They make it up to suit their agenda

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Response to malaise (Reply #7)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 07:04 AM

9. Most don't know much about holding down a job, either

No one takes this shit seriously. Southern secessionists can be safely ignored (except maybe by the cops for criminal behavior)

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Response to Bucky (Reply #9)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 09:24 AM

18. That's rather a broad brush, don't you think?....

....Just guessing, but you appear to have forgotten the following rather interesting remarks from Governor Perry of Texas in 2009:

"You know, my hope is that America and Washington in particular pays attention. We’ve got a great union. There is absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what may come out of that? But Texas is a very unique place and we’re a pretty independent lot to boot."

What should we read into that? Nobody took the South seriously in the 1840s-1850s until 1861, when it was much too late for talk. My point is you have to take these kinds of remarks seriously enough to understand where they're coming from and to know how to minimize them, otherwise you just repeat previous mistakes.

Having lived in the Deep South for 22 years, I can tell you for a fact that the secession concept is not limited to those struggling to hold down a job in a job-poor economy. It cuts across all levels from the very wealthy to the dirt-poor, from business owners to those getting unemployment checks. Bad economies tend to stir up political unrest, and the US is no exception to the rule. Additionally, quite a few folks down here are still fighting the US Civil War 147 years after the end of the conflict and 135 years after the end of the US military occupation. The resentment toward Northerners and the Federal Government is still very real.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #18)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:46 PM

57. Nobody took the South seriously in the 1840s-1850s

No, they took them seriously.

Compromise after compromise, they took them seriously. The runaway slave act, the Missouri compromise, bleeding Kansas.*

Every president during those years southerner, had sympathies toward the south, or owned slaves.

The south didn't get their way in 1860, and acted like children. And they've continued to do it for 200 years now.

Now they do it through a surrogate, the Republican party.

Someday we'll have to say enough is enough.

* my source, "The Impending Crisis 1848-1861," David M. Potter. "Free Labor, Free men, Free Soil," Eric Foner

http://www.amazon.com/Impending-Crisis-1848-1861-David-Potter/dp/0061319295
http://www.amazon.com/Free-Soil-Labor-Men-Introductory/dp/0195094972

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Response to Confusious (Reply #57)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 10:44 PM

67. What I was trying to say is nobody believed the South would actually secede....

...appreciate the history refresher, but I graduated with a degree in History.

By the way, what's happening now is not just taking place in the GOP South. Take a look at all of the states who are trying to suppress the vote:

INTERACTIVE MAP: Voter Suppression Efforts By State

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 06:57 AM

8. The only states who should be talking Secession are the BLUE States

 

What would the Red states (takers) do if the Blue States (Producers) went Gault?

The Red States have been holding this nation back since its inception.

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Response to coldwaterintheface (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 10:49 AM

24. Viva Cascadia!



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Response to coldwaterintheface (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:02 AM

27. Time to start a movement nt

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Response to coldwaterintheface (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:20 PM

33. So the Moon Landings WERE a hoax!

Not to mention the lack of an Internet due to those awful red states "holding the country back since its inception."

The only people that talk of secession, whether they live in blue, red, or purple states, have NO IDEA what it would do to not only their economy but the economy of the world. Are you ready for a global depression?

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Response to kentauros (Reply #33)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 05:00 PM

45. Gee back when the internet was ARPA/DARPA net nothing was in the red states

 

but lets not let the facts get in the was shall we.

Rocket launches can be done in any place close to the equator.

The well being of New England is more dependent upon Canda then red states

as far as recession you are just guessing.

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Response to coldwaterintheface (Reply #45)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 06:14 PM

47. I wasn't talking about WHERE these things were done.

I'm addressing your asinine statement that the red states have held back this country since its inception. Or are you going to retract that in lieu of facts?

And my "guess" is an educated one. Just look at industry, ports, farmland, wind-power, mineral resources (and more than I care to list) that are located in the South as an example of why destroying the union would be a bad idea for the entire world.

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Response to kentauros (Reply #47)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 07:10 PM

48. We became a SLAVE nation because of the red states at this countries founding

 

even fought a civil war because of it. so no I willl not retract.

sorry you can't deal with facts and reality,

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Response to coldwaterintheface (Reply #48)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:42 PM

56. And you're not paying attention to your own statements.

Here, let me help you:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1492622

coldwaterintheface (69 posts)
8. The only states who should be talking Secession are the BLUE States

What would the Red states (takers) do if the Blue States (Producers) went Gault?

The Red States have been holding this nation back since its inception.


To make such a bold statement as this tells me that you haven't been paying attention to what's been going on in our country since it started.

Also, I see a big parallel with RW sentiment with regards to this notion that a part of the nation is undeserving of help, and resentment that y'all have to pay anything at all when you don't get an equal amount in return. Sorry, doesn't work that way. We are a union whether you like it or not, and as a "fellow" Liberal, we help all, no matter what they think of it.

I find this exceedingly weird to have to defend our union from someone presumably in a northern (or NW) state from breaking it all up again. You really don't know what you're talking about if you want that to happen.

Look at the Big Picture, as I've been attempting to point with how such a move would affect the economies of the world.

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Response to kentauros (Reply #56)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:55 PM

60. Well, first off, a breakup isn't going to happen

Second:

Also, I see a big parallel with RW sentiment with regards to this notion that a part of the nation is undeserving of help, and resentment that y'all have to pay anything at all when you don't get an equal amount in return. Sorry, doesn't work that way. We are a union whether you like it or not, and as a "fellow" Liberal, we help all, no matter what they think of it.


It's actually more of a resentment that the "takers" are labeling the "givers" as the "takers."

You can try and convince them (the actual "takers" with facts that they are wrong, but in the end, maybe they have to learn their own lesson. it's kind of a "tough love" thing you would like to see, but know will never happen.

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Response to Confusious (Reply #60)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 09:06 PM

61. I know a breakup won't happen,

or that it would even be possible. Too much crap would have to happen at once for that to even begin to take place. It's a Utopian idea as far as I'm concerned, and not one I share.

Your "givers" and "takers" bit is somewhat confusing, but I think I got it I wouldn't do "tough love" though. I'm more of a "kill 'em with kindness" kind of guy. Conservatives see compassion as a weakness whereas we (normally) embrace it, using it unconditionally, which they also hate

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Response to coldwaterintheface (Reply #48)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:22 PM

69. Maybe you should take a look at this PBS site: Slavery and the Making of America"....

Slavery and the Making of America

....and....

1790 United States Census


My comments: Even though the first African-American slaves were brought to Jamestown colony in Virginia, Massachusetts was the first colony to legalize slavery in 1641. Slavery spread throughout ALL of the American colonies. The US Constitution did not address the issue of slavery when it was adopted in 1787.

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Response to coldwaterintheface (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:50 PM

58. Wrong.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 07:24 AM

12. Any Particular Reason For Raising This Issue At This Point? (nt)

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Response to Paladin (Reply #12)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 07:34 AM

13. Because almost every effing week somebody

brings up secession or some form of dumping the red states, the South in particular. Read a few of the posts in this thread alone. Those are OPs every day.
Or I just got up on the wrong side of the bed. You choose.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #13)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 07:37 AM

14. OK, I Made My Choice. (nt)

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Response to Paladin (Reply #14)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 07:41 AM

15. Ha! Well played. nt

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Response to Paladin (Reply #14)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 10:35 AM

22. Do I hear the StayPuft Marshmellow Man

stomping your direction?

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:45 AM

16. Even during the Civil War there were counties that remained loyal to the Union

Not all Southerners were loyal to the Confederacy. A lot of them went to fight for the Union.

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Response to vinny9698 (Reply #16)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:54 AM

17. Winston in N.Alabama

is a prime example.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #17)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 10:36 AM

23. Knoxville, TN

to name another.

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Response to vinny9698 (Reply #16)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 10:53 AM

25. You beat me to it! This time around, i can't se cities like Miami, New Orleans or Atlanta

being interested in anything that scares off corporations!

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Response to vinny9698 (Reply #16)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:21 AM

30. Hell, West Virginia became a state during the Civil War because its patriots

 

didn't want to join the Tidewater traitors. (I always remember that when people on DU start bagging on West Virginia.)

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Response to vinny9698 (Reply #16)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:24 PM

35. And at least one Union town seceded and joined the south

 

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #35)


Response to vinny9698 (Reply #16)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 10:37 PM

65. Lee fought for the south only because his beloved

Virginia joined the confederates. Grits makes a good point, if anyone tried to secede a southern state, there would be a fucking bloodbath within that state with neighbor fighting neighbor, sibling fighting sibling.

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Response to vinny9698 (Reply #16)

Thu Oct 11, 2012, 08:57 AM

80. Not all soldiers from Union states fought for the Union, either

For example, Missouri had many units that fought for the Confederacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Missouri_Civil_War_Confederate_units

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 10:56 AM

26. NCAA Football and Basketball

The Southeastern Conference isn't abdicating its chances at those titles any time soon!

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:14 AM

28. There are hard core secessionist in Missouri such as State Senator Brian Nieves.

Like other similar radicals most of their constituents have no ideas what they say or are advocating in legislation too radical for and ignored by most Republicans. Let them try to succeed and find out what happens in their own borders.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:21 PM

34. It's just talk...won't ever happen. n/t

 

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Response to sharkman25 (Reply #34)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:25 PM

36. The only way I could see it happening is with some major crises

 

so . . . we run out of oil and the entire economy collapses.

Or significant chunks of the country are laid to waste by a surprise nuclear attack or natural disaster.

Then we would fragment along geographical lines (it's hard to maintain a country this size without modern technology).

Otherwise yeah it's just talk.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #36)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:30 PM

38. If the scenario you lay out happend, all bets are off EVERYWHERE in the U.S. n/t

 

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:26 PM

37. I say let 'em see their no government government in action - in a month they'll come crawling back.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:32 PM

39. Yeah, that happened the first time too

 

remember? North Carolina, South Carolina, nope, I don't remember.



Also it would not just be the old Southern Dominion. You point, rightly, to some western States... I am looking at you Arizona...

Anyhow, anybody thinking this will be the blue and the gray all over again is smoking something really, and I mean this, REALLY strong... and I do not want to partake of it. It won't... I will be nice, I will give the uprising a month before it truly becomes asymmetrical warfare. And I am being nice in that respect.

But some folks are actually itching for a rematch... and they are enough of them to give the rest of us a lot of heart ache.

For the record, civil wars are not civil.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #39)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 12:56 PM

41. The Southern states are different than they were in the 1800s.

I pointed out the minorities and they weren't a factor. So no, it didn't happen the first time.

But there would be serious problems if those mooks tried it now or do you think these minorities and the whites who agree with them will just watch?

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #41)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:38 PM

42. Yeah but I am not talking of the Southern States, you are

 

I am talking of a state of being. Some people, not just in the South, want a rematch, for a sundry of reasons.

The civil war, for the record, was not something the MAJORITY wanted in the southern states in 1860 either.

Civil wars, this is a great misunderstanding of the dynamic, do not come from majorities, but come from minorities who feel the only recourse they have left is the ammo box. In that sense, we are reaching a similar, not the same, just similar, condition.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #42)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:42 PM

43. In some senses we are.

However, the RW nuts aren't the only aggrieved parties. There are enough different groups with pent up frustrations that everybody will be in somebody else's sights. It won't be some walkover by those idiots.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #43)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 01:50 PM

44. I never said it would be

 

In fact, I have reasons to fear that, since I know what high speed lead does.

But my feeling is that the RW is actually ready to start shit. In fact, we have been having a slow crescendo of violence, which follows the pattern of modern civil wars... so you could say we are in that twilight zone between the cold civil war and the hot civil war.

I expect the organized uprising to last a month, best case (it's a big country after all)... after that... The Troubles in Ireland are probably a good model. That scares me.

But limited to the south? No... my back country has more than that talk too.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #42)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 10:39 PM

66. I agree with you. nt

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 05:11 PM

46. How many posts are you going to make on the subject?

 

Just wondering.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #46)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:53 PM

59. Maybe they can stop when this type of ignorance stops.

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Response to cordelia (Reply #59)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 09:15 PM

62. Aren't you a charmer?

 

Yes, I'm ignorant of exactly how many posts Grits needs to make on the same subject. I was hoping for elucidation, mmmm?

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #62)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 02:37 AM

70. As many as I want to or think I need to.

Every day, all day.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Reply #70)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 03:53 AM

73. Everybody needs a hobby

 

Me? I collect potato chips that resemble dead celebrities. Got a little shrine going.

You? Well, I think what you do is weird, but whatever.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #62)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 06:24 AM

75. Unlike you, yes I am.

The OP has a valid point, and your juvenile snark - and you know it was - helps make it.

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Response to cordelia (Reply #75)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 08:50 AM

78. It's a point the OP has made in a few other threads

 

Actually, I take that back. I'm not seeing a point. it looks like a teenager jabbering on their livejournal about an idea they have, without ever actually giving form or meaning to the idea.

Okay, Grits dislikes the notion of secession and Robert E. Lee. What relevance does this have to any damned thing in the world, other than Grits maybe using the wrong neck-tube when doing tequila shots?

What I see, is another vaguely affronted southerner on DU, shaking their fingers at those of us who have the fucking audacity to not live there, without ever explaining why there's finger-shaking, presumably for no reason other than to clench their own testicles and screech about how oppressed the south is when someone goes "excuse me, but what the fuck are you going on about, and why does it need five threads?"

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:09 PM

51. Well if these people are so set on doing it then I will sell my property and move to Maryland

 

where my family lives. They can keep their hate and religion and watch how fast people will jump ship when the get the same treatment of Sharia Law only for christains. Watch how fast people will move.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:41 PM

55. Good riddance

I say we let them so this time and invite the loyal Americans up north. I'm sick of spending my tax dollars subsidizing idiots who call me a socialist.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 10:33 PM

64. I think we will stick together in the end.

 

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:04 PM

68. There is nothing sweeter than the smell of secession

 

I for one would welcome it.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 02:46 AM

71. You worry too much!

 

The North will use drones. Neater, and it keeps the body count down!

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Response to cbrer (Reply #71)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 06:31 AM

76. The North?

 

HUH?

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 07:55 AM

77. Secession? What do you call the Southern States away from the Union?

Poor.

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Response to Are_grits_groceries (Original post)

Tue Oct 9, 2012, 09:50 AM

79. Come to Missouri

 

Many accuse the South of having long memories. We do, and we remember the tragedy that was the war and its aftermath. It is not some marvelous time a lot of us want to revisit.

There are many groups who do just that as their reason for being.. They glorify the Civil War. Some on one side and some on the other.
Specialized stores selling nothing but Civil War books, Civil War era clothing and paraphernalia. Reenactments, big and small, up the kazoo every year.

The Todd Akin's of Missouri are not near the anomalies we wish they were.

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