I really can't believe what I just watched

[CoffeeCat]

I'm still digesting the debates, but it is clear what went on here. It is also clear that Mitt Romney's singular debate strategy was to lie, lie and then lie some more--making it impossible for President Obama to engage in substantive or rational discourse.

First, Romney lied about this tax policy and his tax-cut plans--which would cut $4 trillion in taxes for upper-income millionaires and billionaires. Romney has run on this tax policy for more than a year, and he has also run on the his plan to voucherize Medicare. Romney also denied that.

Romney lied about this healthcare plan, revealing tonight that he had a plan to cover people with pre-existing conditions even though he has promised to repeal Obamacare on day one.

Obama's head must have been spinning--and that was the plan. Romney knew they couldn't win on substance and that their ideas would be rejected. So they decided to just deny the basic tenents of their campaign.

Listen folks. This was a very deliberate strategy. Romney would lie and frustrate Obama--and it worked. No one, including the President--expected such sheer depravity.

When you agree to debate an opponent--you expect that they will stand up for the ideas on which their entire campaign has been based. Romney didn't even ADMIT his ideas! He called Obama a liar for spelling out Romney's own ideas that he's beens showcasing for years.

So congratulations, Mitt Romney. You win my vote for bully of the year, liar of the year and manipulator of the century. You may have frustrated President Obama into some corners, and I'm sure you practiced those lies and the faux outrage plenty of times with uproarious guffaws from your handlers, "Can you imagine the look on Obama's face when we deny our own tax policies and our own Medicare plan--and then argue that we are for Obamacare now?! We'll be golden!"

Oh, I bet they howled with delight.

We all know that a favorite conservative strategy is to accuse your opponent of doing the very thing that you are doing. Republicans are masters at it. And look what they spent the past two weeks insinuating that Obama would do during the debates---lie. They said it repeatedly--Obama will lie.

And that's exactly what Mitt Romney stood up there and did.

No, Obama didn't lie. Obama presented Mitt with his own longs-held ideas and tried to debate him. Romney lied and said they weren't his ideas.

You could see the look of frustration on Obama's face. Fifteen minutes into this debate and it was very clear to our President that they were game playing. But you know what? That's the look of a President who is not about games. President Obama wanted to have a substantive debate, but couldn't, because his opponent chose rancor and nonsense over wisdom and sincerity. That's the look and frustration of a President who wants to have an honest, rational discussion with America--but can't because his opponent is too busy playing oneupmanship with lies.

Tonight was all about convoluted manipulations, horrendous lies and a labyrinth of games in which Mitt Romney denied his own campaign promises and policy stances. So, congratulations to Mitt Romney. He won by out politicking his opponent--and by dodging, distorting and denying.

Mitt Romney cheated. He not only cheated by lying; he cheated the American people out of a real debate. This was not a debate. It was a big game and the only winner was Mitt Romney, but everyone else in America who should have heard the truth about the issues--lost tonight.

I am proud of our President. Yes, it wasn't a commanding debate performance, but at least President Obama is honest and has integrity and enough good sense to never play games like the ones we saw Mitt Romney play tonight.

[still_one]

1. He should have called him on the lies /nt

[monmouth]

3. I honestly think the President is setting him up. Those lies are out there now, Romney owns every

word/lie he stated. The next debate will be very different IMO..

[OldDem2012]

6. Bingo. Look for them in the next round of pro-Obama ads. nt.

[still_one]

7. The next debate is too far off, people in this country have trouble with focus. Don't get me wrong,

I hope you are right

[gkhouston]

11. Oh, he won't be waiting for the next debate to attack the lies.

I expect new ads will be out tomorrow. I know if I'd been leading his Truth Team, I would have told them to grab a nap today because they'd probably be making new ads right after the debate.

[still_one]

13. I won't know because I am in California, but I hope you are right /nt

[Tyson73]

25. Exactly

This is not over, one man throws a punch, but the other man still has a punch to throw.

Obama needs to thoroughly game plan for the next debate and hit back hard.

[global1]

28. I Was Thinking The Same Thing And My Analogy Is A Pool Shark In A Bar.....

let the other guy think he's outplayed the pool shark in the first game. Feign being outplayed. Raise the stakes for the next game and then beat the other guy senseless and take all of his money. I read elsewhere on DU where Rmoney will probably get a lot of money pouring into his campaign after today's performance. It's just good money (or bad money depending on how you look at it) being throw in for bad.

My guess that this might be the Obama strategy. Now Rmoney's flip-flops are out there in plain view for everyone to see and evaluate and it will be hard for Rmoney to defend the lies he told tonight going forward. And this isn't even saying how Rmoney's flip-flops and lies tonight will play with his base - where they expected him to say certain RW things - and Rmoney went more central. It will be interesting to see how the analysis of this debate goes given a day or two of fact checking and holding Rmoney accountable for the lies and flip-flops he told and made tonight.

[marions ghost]

58. Rmoney's working class right wing base will be utterly confused

Gobblygook to them. They'll agree that he was Rocky (Hollywood style "win&quot --but they might (might) also pick up on the fact that he was speaking to his rich bankers and business tycoon supporters--not them.

I didn't hear a real strong dog whistle to the downscale base. Leaving that to Ryan I guess.

[dogfacedboy]

46. Agreed

President Obama's going to take Romney to school from here on out. Twitt has nothing more to play. He'll just repeat the same crap, and he's going to get called on it from this point forward.

[jwirr]

63. It would not be the first rethugs he has set up and showed them up for what they truly are.

[locdlib]

69. I believe

you are exactly right. There is a definite strategy here.

[Kablooie]

82. But when Obama didn't refute them it implies that he conceded they were true.

I understand that Romney's lies are now out in public but to the average person at home they aren't clear as to Obama's attitude towards each of those lies.

[CoffeeCat]

8. Agreed. I think Obama expected to show up for a debate...

...and I think he was thrown.

Romney wouldn't even admit to his own ideas. How the frick are you supposed to debate an opponent that denies his central campaign ideas???

Romney wouldn't even admit to voucherizing Medicare. How many hours did Romney and Ryan spend in Florida--trying to fool old people in Florida into thinking that voucherizing was the best idea on the planet?

Romney backed down from it--one of his central policy stances!

I don't think anyone expected this.

When you hear that two presidential candidates are debating--you expect that they will debate their ideas. Not lie about their ideas and come up with brand new ones during the debate.

Obama was in an impossible situation and I think he handled it well.

This debate is not going to make vouchers and Mitt's unworkable tax cuts--great ideas. No one was sold. Apparently not even Mitt himself--as he backed away from everything he's previously run on.

[global1]

30. Some Of The Blame Needs To Go To The Debate Moderator That Basically Knows The Stances Of Both.....

candidates and not calling Rmoney out on changing his stance for this debate versus what he's been campaigning on since he threw his had into the ring.

The debate moderator should have been a bit more probing and harder on Rmoney. He basically let Rmoney lie and didn't call him on it.

I know some here will say that it is not his job to call Rmoney out and that the President should be doing that - but Obama was not going to be drawn into that trap - because Rmoney might have had a zinger or two waiting to fling at the President.

[Blanks]

72. I agree 'some here will say that it is not his job'...

I am among them. That isn't the role of any moderator.

If anything I thought Lehrer made Romney look like a bully. Every little bit helps.

I also think that the analysts that said Romney won; aren't taking his base into account.

Romney's base is a bunch of racist pigs. Romney was respectful to the president and referred to him as 'Mr President'. That may work for independents; I think it turns off his base.

[Glitterati]

87. The moderator was AWFUL!

He had no control. None.

[marions ghost]

59. I agree with your analysis completely

Deny deny, and lie--make it impossible for Obama to get the upper hand.

BIZARRE.

[pangaia]

62. After 4 years of republican behavior

Obama certainly SHOULD have known EXACTLY what was coming.

[xtraxritical]

75. "horrendous lies and a labyrinth of games"

"Tonight was all about convoluted manipulations, horrendous lies and a labyrinth of games in which Mitt Romney denied his own campaign promises and policy stances."

I can't wait for my Ca. "absentee" ballot, so that I can vote a straight Democratic ballot.

[glinda]

24. Agree with the post and with you.

[bloom]

52. actually - he did

[ailsagirl]

91. As the OP wrote...

=snip=

"...Mitt Romney's singular debate strategy was to lie, lie and then lie some more--making it impossible for President Obama to engage in substantive or rational discourse." [emphasis mine]

=snip=

[rhett o rick]

105. In a perfect world yes. But it would have taken a lot of time. It would have come across as defensiv

I support Pres Obama's method of sticking to his agenda. Dont let Rmoney lead.

[Enrique]

2. they should have come up with some solution to the problem

you are completley right about Mitt's lying strategy and you are right it is very tricky to deal with that strategy, but they should have come up with something. It was obvious going in that that was going to be the strategy. This is for the presidency, they are supposed to be the best.

By the way, they are the best when it comes to the ads, the ads are brilliant. That's how Obama is going to win. But they fail with the debating Romney the Liar. I don't have high hopes for Biden vs. Ryan, Biden's nice guy act won't do anyone any good.

[factsarenotfair]

9. That's what I think.

I'm trying not to be paranoid.

[CoffeeCat]

12. I agree that Presidential candidates...

...can craft soundbytes and responses to another candidate's ideas and policies. You can even plan to counter some lies and spin.

However, when your opponent shows up and denies all of his major policies--that's just a whole other ball game.

I didn't anticipate this.

I anticipated some dirty tricks, maybe some cutting remarks. I never anticipated that they would deny all major policy stances--and then call Obama a liar when he simply repeated what Romney/Ryan have said on the campaign trail.

It's a strategy that a bully with unpopular ideas and sociopathic tendencies would employ, that's for sure.

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

22. Was each lie a "Zinger?" and the "Grand Zinger" calling Obama liar?

[glinda]

26. Perhaps that is why they nominated Mitt. He is a Sociopath and will be

a perfect pawn to achieve total mass destruction of Democracy as well as the Planet.

[Z_I_Peevey]

57. Precisely, and normal tactics don't work with them

You can't win a rational argument witha sociopath, because the truth is not in them. They 'create their own reality.' You can meet them with overwhelming force, call a lie a lie and address the reality-based audience, but you can't make a sociopath admit to a lie.

[Turborama]

92. Sounds like you know what you're talking about

...from personal experience?

I only ask as you've described clearly and succinctly someone very close to me, and it's destroying our relationship.

[DhhD]

98. There have been three personalities shown and the 4th is the one that this is too hard on Mitt.

[LiberalAndProud]

4. Excellent OP, CoffeeCat.

This is the absolute truth of the matter. The other Mitt showed up tonight. Turn on a dime, believe nothing, promise everything. Mitt stayed true to form.

[flamingdem]

5. Thank you CC - our guy is honest vs. the other guy who spews lies n/t

[Fawke Em]

10. Uh... no. Obama just sucked.

Admit it. Deal with it. And tell him the milquetoast only tastes good dunked in tea.

[CoffeeCat]

16. Quite the opposite. Obama held his composure...

...while Romney called Obama a liar for simply reiterating what Romney has said on the campaign trail for months.

Obama was able to get many points across. He was also able to make the case that he had accomplished a great deal in the past four years--and that he inherited a mess and had garnered some important successes.

Obama did a lot of things that were right.

He's just a person, for Pete's sake. He's not a lying, kniving robot sociopath like Romney.

I'm sure he was taken aback by Romney's complete depravity. Seriously! Disavowing your own tax policy that you've had since the primary! And refusing to admit that you are voucherizing Medicare!

Obama hates the games. He hates the nonsense. He's human. He's not a neocon, warmongering, corporatist psycho like the rest of them--so yeah, he's not perfect when his opponent is displaying ridiculous, bizarre and manipulative behaviors.

Give Obama a break! He held his own even though he had to stand next to that sociopathic, lying clown.

[glinda]

27. Yes but there are people that Mitt confused and swayed by his lying.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

43. Romney is counting on the idea that nobody saw him on the campaign trail,...

.....and the media to not fact check him.

[Ikonoklast]

42. Who looked and sounded presidential last night?

THAT guy won.

Deal with it.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

44. That wasn't "Presidencial". That was a con man in action.

[NightOwwl]

102. It's hard to hit back

when you are fighting nothing but hot air.

[rhett o rick]

107. Disagree. Romney had it easy. All he had to do was spout agressive talking points and make impossib

impossible proposals. The president had to defend actual programs that are real and may have flaws. Rmoney could just get away with lying.

[pinboy3niner]

14. Romney's promise to cover pre-existing conditions isn't new, but it's limited

According to his campaign website it applies only to people who have been "continuously insured" (whatever that means--up to 3 months ago, 1 year, 5 years?). When CNN asked for an explanation before, the Romney campaign declined to give one.

It's the same old story--he makes a lot of promises, but provides no specifics.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

83. Same old story: you're covered until you can't make payments or slip up accidentally once. Curtains.

[pinboy3niner]

89. And about 89 million Americans experience gaps in coverage

Who would be left out of Romney’s preexisting conditions plan? About 89 million Americans.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/10/who-would-be-left-out-of-romneys-preexisting-conditions-plan-about-89-million-americans/

The original source of the 89 million figure is a study by the Commonwealth Fund:
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Publications/In-the-Literature/2012/Aug/Gaps-and-Transitions-in-Health-Insurance.aspx

[Tennessee Gal]

15. Excellent analysis.

I had not thought about how extremely difficult it must be to be debating someone who you know for a fact is lying repeatedly, but be in a position of having to remain dignified and calm .... Presidential. It would have been a mistake for Obama to sink to Romney's level.

However, I am not sure the American voter will grasp what actually occurred. Far too many of them are simply willfully ignorant and have no interest in considering the facts of what was said, much less the nuances of such a debate.

[Cha]

17. I totally expected it.

And, thank you for your thoughful analysis, CoffeeCat.

[CoffeeCat]

19. I didn't at all...

I expected Romney to lose this debate, on the issues. I knew there was no way he could defend his unpopular, bizarre agenda.

I guess Romney knew that too!

[Cha]

29. I just expected romney to go all

apeshit with the lies. and, wondered how Pres Obama would handle that..

In his statements ..he's been setting up the debate like this..

"Towards the end of the interview, however, Romney looked ahead to the upcoming debates and said he'll have a challenge to deal with: "he president tends to, how shall I say it, to say things that aren't true."

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/09/14/13865583-chronicling-mitts-mendacity-vol-xxxiv?lite

Steve Benen has 35 Volumes of mitt's lies. I read that he called the President a Liar in the debate tonight.

[young_at_heart]

18. Romney was REALLY proud of himself----he's great at game-playing

He has mastered the art of "the game" and he lets everyone know how good he is at it. Does that qualify him for the presidency?

[CoffeeCat]

20. Exactly...this isn't going to change minds!

Last edited Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:10 AM - Edit history (1)

No Obama supporter--at this point--is going into the Romney camp, because of this debate.

Romney may have helped the general public forget about some of his worst campaign moments, for now.

However, voters pay attention to these candidates and have been doing so since the conventions. They know what Romney and Obama are about, and there are so few undecideds left to persuade. I highly doubt that this debate will be a big push to Romney and away from Obama.

Romney had a good night, but Obama did not do poorly enough to cause his supporters to shift to Romney. No way in hell.

We can all be disappointed that Obama didn't win the debate and didn't communicate as effectively as he usually does--but I don't think we need to worry about Obama losing supporters over this.

[BlueMTexpat]

39. Also remember, there are a lot of us who have already voted.

We were never going to change our minds.

We KNOW what Rmoney is and what he represents.

If there are still people who were genuinely undecided, even before these debates, after everything that they have seen and know about Rmoney (Bush II redux, but worse) and Obama (someone who generally cares about ALL of us and who has managed to turn around the impossible situation he was given in 2008 so that it looks as if there may be some light at the end of the tunnel), then those people are truly beyond hope/help.

If all it takes to get them to vote for Rmoney is yet another bunch of lies from Rmoney, then so be it.

We just need to GOTV. In the meantime, you can bet that Team Obama will be mining this debate for real gold. If their ads are half as effective as they have been so far, then watch out R-R!

[mikeforu]

110. Your Wrong

If you believe that, Ill sell you ocean front property in Arizona. It changed my mind, and Ive never voted republican

[pacalo]

21. That's my feeling as well!

The two-minute limitation on answers worked to Romney's advantage; he was able to fill up the time with a long list of lies that deserved more than just seconds allowed for a rebuttal from Obama.

Fact checkers will get the word out tomorrow, hopefully.

[ohheckyeah]

23. President Obama didn't give them anything to use

against him.

I hope he put the debate behind him and celebrated his anniversary with Michelle properly.

[otohara]

31. Well Done, Thanks

Best post debate analysis on DU!

[NJCher]

36. agreed

Bravo, coffeecat!

But there's one point I would like to make: are they lies or are they complete about-faces? It seems as though Obama thought they were an about-face, based on his remark, "oh never mind!" It was obvious at that point that the president knew R-money had abandoned any previous policy stances that he may have had and was now just throwing @$# at the wall to see what would stick.

A friend and I were just talking and my friend pointed out that doing what Romney did is very risky and that he will be eaten alive by the fact checkers. This will continue over a period of about 4-6 days and will cancel out any boost he might get from the debate.


Cher

[polly7]

32. I've just been watching clips

and Obama seemed almost sad at times listening to Romney's lies, like he was truly disappointed in him for going there.

[Loudly]

33. tenets. n/t

[mstinamotorcity2]

35. The President is smarter

than that. He played Mitt like a fiddle. Which Mitt was going to show up?? Go back and look at Health care debates. He took on every house and senate republican. He can handle Mitt. No he let Mitt commit himself. Expose himself. Show where his weakness and vulnerabilities are. He started getting antsy after about 15 minutes. When he has to lie he stutters. He shows when and where his arguments can be put to rest. The viewership for the next debate goes up because they believe Romney did so well. And the Quarterback is TOAST!!!

[Amonester]

37. Isn't that 'strategy' the same for 'most' of the 0.001%?

I mean, when confronted with their own misdeeds, they start manipulating, accusing, distorting, and lying, like it's a natural mean of defense for them. In other words, all they care about is to get away with it scot-free. They don't want to face the truth about how much they screwed up for personal gain. They only try to muddy enough water all over the issues.

That's what RobMe did there.

[BarackTheVote]

38. I agree with you completely, CoffeeCat

that was my first impression, too--that Obama was knocked off his game by Wromney just taking a complete about-face from all of the policy he was prepared to debate him on. But, Wromney didn't really back away from what he's been saying, he just reframed it and lied shamelessly. The 20% across the board tax cut *IS* the 4 trillion dollar tax cut... the debt-nutrality of it by closing loop-holes is STILL IMPOSSIBLE, as Clinton pointed out. Obama DID point out Wromney's lies, and also got a good zinger in there about Wromney's policy being "nevermind"--I think that can potentially stick, especially with Wromney already having a reputation as a flip-flopper.

Our shock and disgust shouldn't be aimed at the President... Jim Lehrer completely lost control of the debate... and Romney took advantage by constantly getting in the last word, i.e., leaving the audience with the brain-bug of an unanswered lie. Fortunately, we still have ads and two more debates, so Wromney didn't REALLY get in the last word. His sense of success is false.

To everyone wringing their hands tonight: CALM THE FUCK DOWN.

[DollarBillHines]

40. Lying for the Lord

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/1251116610

[King_Klonopin]

41. I didn't watch the debate

because I knew it would be masochistic.

I listened to NPR for a few minutes after the debate was done.
They sounded pretty disappointed in Obama's performance.
I hope this is just Obama playing the debates like a chess game.

I don't intend to watch the other two debates, either.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

45. Excellent analysis. The only thing not addressed

is the lack of moderation. Romney's handlers knew Leher could be railroaded and
that's exactly what Willard did. The debate was a free for all, a disgrace.

[barbtries]

47. "No one, including the President--expected such sheer depravity." i did.

i'm not more savvy than the president or his advisors, but i saw that coming ages ago.
i like the theory that obama was just setting the stage for the next debates.
what causes me pain is the media - they're so in the tank for the republicans or so determined to milk the race for every cent they tend not to report on the LIES.

[MadrasT]

48. Agreed.

I sat there dumbfounded, thinking "How are you supposed to debate somebody who stands there contradicting and denying everything he ever said before?"

I would have blown a gasket at Romney. Obama stayed cool. That impressed the heck out of me.

Also the moderator did a horrible job. Just awful.

[lunatica]

49. Romney won the prize for being the most long winded, rapid fire liar on record

What a prize!

The only thing is, everyone knows it, and the fact checkers will drive it home.

[bucolic_frolic]

50. If Obama doesn't gain traction in debate two

the campaign should consider pulling out of debate 3.

And imagine what lies will come from Paul Ryan-Rand!

[ProfessionalLeftist]

51. Yes it was deliberate. I called it "speed-lying"

Another DUer posted this - a debate style called "Gish-Galloping":

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

[bloom]

53. Romney also kept going from "compassionate conservative" to "obnoxious know it all"

I found him incredibly annoying.

[SmittynMo]

54. It's easy to play the game, once you know what the rules are.

Now that Obama has a good idea what this idiot stands for, I'm sure he'll be much more prepared for the next debate. It's showtime folks!!!

[Grammy23]

55. The so-called debate was just a demonstration of how low Mitt will go to win---

this is a man used to getting his way, at all costs. He came prepared to lie, switch positions, leapfrog around his own positions and, in short, do whatever he could to stay away from the truth. This was a peek into the mind of a man who will stop at NOTHING to get his own way, including denying his own ideas, principles and policies. If the American people really want another LIAR and CHEAT in the White House, Mitt is their man.

The President, on the other hand, came prepared to actually compare and contrast their respective positions on the issues. He was unable to engage in that kind of conversation because his opponent simply would not play fair.

I wish the President had been more forceful in his responses and had been more aggressive in calling out the more egregious lies and half-truths. But Mr. Obama is a much better man than Romney (and NO I will not call him Mr. because he is no gentleman.)

Compounding this problem, the news media fell into Romney's devious plan and practically eviscerated the President once the debacle ended. I didn't watch any network except MSNBC but read comments here on DU and Daily Kos and noted that the blood bath for the President was pretty much across the board.

I think in the cold light of day, once the fact checkers get finished (and it won't take them long) Romney will be found out and called to account for every word out of his mouth last night. Remember, now he has to go back out on the road again and CAMPAIGN. So what's he going to say the people in Ohio, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Florida and Virginia now? He has pretty much renounced every position he took for months of campaigning.

I think the real show has just begun. I can't wait for any interviews he gives and any speeches he makes. The ads from the Obama camp will write themselves.

Oh and the next debate ought to be MUCH WATCH TV since the President now knows how Romney plays. I don't think he will disappoint us. He will still be the same calm, cool and collected guy we all know and want to continue in the job, but Romney needs to be ready for a very different opponent.

[HangOnKids]

77. Stop Grammy. Stop Now. The News Media Did NOT Fall Into Any Plan.

They are THE PLAN. The News is owned by rich fucks who want to eviscerate Obama. Why don't people understand this? The media is AGAINST the American people. End of fucking rant.

[bullwinkle428]

56. I'm sorry - the cynical side of me is looking at "Team Obama" the same

way I looked at Condi Rice when she said "No one could have imagined the idea of hijacking planes and flying them into buildings."

"No one could have imagined that Romney would lie his fucking ass off throughout the entire debate!"

[eqfan592]

60. I think they expected some lying.

But Romney doing a 180 on a bunch of his positions, such as his tax plan? Hard to prep for that.

[CoffeeCat]

74. That was exactly my point in the OP...

I am sure Obama was wondering...Who in the hell is this guy and where is Mitt Romney?

Romney denied his own positions! Then Romney called Obama a liar for laying out Romney's policies.

It was like debating Sybil.

Romney may have out weaseled himself into some pseudo debate win. However, Romney still has unpopular ideas and he's still a sociopath.

This "spectacular performance" will unravel within the next few days.

In short, Romney's lies won't stand the fact-check test. You can't hide from lies.

I predict that the next Presidential debates will leave Romney crying like a baby.

[DaveJ]

94. It's dangerous to even attempt figuring out the mind of a sociopath

They need to involve specially trained psychological operatives, because the inner working of a mentally deranged mind is nothing you want to spend too much time thinking about. This guy pretended to be a cop, pinned down a student and cut his hair, put a dog on his car, laid off thousands, he truly is warped.

Which is scary enough. His backers are even worse.

[maddiemom]

104. It was like debating Sybil....good one!

[Wednesdays]

76. It's like trying to catch a phantom

[Vietnameravet]

79. I agree

They should have known and should have prepared..did they not see those ads talking about Obama doing away with work requirements for welfare, and the misleading 750 billion cut from Medicare?
No excuse for this failure to prepare..

[katmondoo]

61. Just donated to Obama again

Romney's performance made me want to something

[pangaia]

64. After 4 years of republican behavior

Obama certainly SHOULD have known EXACTLY what was coming. As I posted way below...

[busterbrown]

65. I agree however

I feel that Obama's plan that if Romney did what he did, flinging lie after lie then
Obama was not gonna ( at this debate) get into a classless street fight. He stayed
above the fray and remained presidential looking and I feel that anyone who was
planning on voting for him will still do so.
I doubt Obama will let Romney have his way next time.
If you think Romney lied through the debate, Ryan will be worse.

[meadowlark5]

66. You can't debate against a liar

The pres had Romney's campaign policy facts at hand but Romney flat out kept denying everything he's campaigned on for the past year. It was like arguing with a little kid, "I saw you take the cookie out of the cookie jar" - "no I didn't" - "Yes you did, I saw you with my own eyes" - "no I didn't!" "yes you did" "no I didn't" How can you debate with that?

Maybe it was the Romney camps strategy - lie, distort and throw off your opponent's game because trying to counter all of the lies would have had Obama running in circles. I think he took the best direction with the least damage. I'd say him being less aggressive and appearing "passive" as some have said is better than him countering the lies one after another would have made him look scattered and confused.

I hope they learn from this one and shut that smug, rich liar down next time.

[DryHump]

67. Bill Clinton's debate style...

...is to take liars to the woodshed and do it succinctly and with a smile. Would our president learn that technique. By NOT calling Mittens out on his lies, Mr. Obama lent credence to Romney's untruths. I love Mr. Obama, but this is the same Barack who spent four years trying to placate Repubs and reach across the aisle. He does not know how to go for the jugular (unless it's Osama bin Laden). He's not setting Romney up for future debates; there is no chess game. Barack Obama is frustratingly plodding and non-confrontational.

[Vietnameravet]

84. very true!!

[humbled_opinion]

88. I think Romney was the one that

used that technique very effectively on Obama, i.e., “I’m used to people saying something that’s not always true but just keep repeating it and ultimately hoping I’ll believe it. But that is not the case.”

Now I asked my teahead coworkers what did Obama lie about regarding Romney's tax plan.... their bottom line is that Obama and Democrats refuse to recognize that there are more ways than taxing the rich to add revenue to government, It's jobs stupid...

I am flabbergasted....

[lame54]

68. That's Obama's Problem...

He can't see what we all can see soooo clearly

this is a repeat of his ridiculous bi-partisan talk

we all knew that the repugs were not going to cooperate at all

but it took Obama years to learn that lesson

[Blue Owl]

70. Romney wins debate -- in other news, the Seattle Seahawks beat Green Bay Packers last week

n/t

[sevenseas]

71. CAN WE TAWK....

Obama looked tired, and he was lackluster. Sorry folks, I love Obama, but we do not want to fall into the spin world like the Repubs do- we are honest and tell it like it is. Obama needs to do better. He didn't call Willard out on his lies, just stood there and let Romney attack like a vicious little Chihuahua.

Romney - in our faces- said he would repeal bank, Wall st and health care laws- then let congress enact new and better laws.


We all know congress is bought off by the lobbyists, so there will be no laws, and Wall St and the banks will run amok....and the insurance companies will say "NO" to everything.

Even in Leher's face he said he would get rid of PBS, and Leher just smiled like an obedient slave.


And Romney is itching to start another war. NO! You Bastard, NO!

I am sure the 1% super-rich are doing cartwheels this morning.

If Romney is elected- BUY GOLD, that is the only thing that will be left of value by the time the Republicans finish robbing our country.

PRAY PRAY PRAY that Obama can jump back in the ring and KO that scumbag bully next time around, because with Romney as president, America will go down the drain.

[frylock]

73. obama seemed completely unprepared and disengaged..

allowing romney to spew lie after lie after lie unchallenged is not a winning strategy. you don't win by playing not to lose.

[Cleita]

78. The Romney lies were what stood out to me from the beginning and

frankly I was surprised to read the tweets from the so-called professional pundits that didn't point this out. They tiptoed around the issue of his bold-faced lies that could be instantly fact-checked. One or two mentioned that they were fact checking. Duh Oh!

[Jester Messiah]

80. Romney took every shot on the goal he could get. Didn't matter if 75% didn't go in.

It's a decent strategy, really. Obama was swamped on defense.

The other thing is that Obama needed to bring the fire that he showed at the convention, but this he failed to do.

[jonesgirl]

81. Folks, it was just 1 debate. I'm sure President Obama knew what he was doing last night, and I'm

positive he has a game plan. He just wanted to size Romney up, just to see what Romney has on the table. Repubs are already calling Romney the winner after just one debate, however, we know the real Romney and what he really means when he talks about "small business" and refers to his cronies and rich investors as "we". Romney put all his eggs in one basket last night. President Obama knows you can't do that. It's just like playing for a championship game title...just because you win one game, doesn't mean you won the entire thing.
Here's what I would like to point out:
Romney says he can create all those millions of jobs IF elected for president. My question is, he hasn't done anything since 2006, and if he is so worried about our middle class, then why the hell hasn't he stepped up to the plate and created those jobs on his own power in the last 5 years? Why has he chosen to take those jobs overseas to help other countries prosper? Ohhh I remember now...him and his cronies don't want to do anything to make President Obama look good. In my opinion and from my findings over the past few years...they should be charged with treason! We the People should be able to sue them for interfering with our life, liberty and pursuit of happiness!

[harun]

85. He should have called him a liar and said the American people deserve

more respect than that from a candidate.

[humbled_opinion]

86. Well I had to run this by the teaheads

at my job, I asked them how they could deal with all the lies their candidate told last night..... This is what they said, LIES? what lies?, the only lies that have ever been told are the lies that the Democrats try to tell about Romney's plans. They concluded the best thing that Romney did was not to let Obama define his (Romney's) policies and in fact turned it all around on Obama's very policies that have not worked to fix the economy...

Anyway that is look into their thinking on this.

[ailsagirl]

90. Outstanding analysis, CoffeeCat

[matt819]

93. Calling out the lies

I have mixed feelings about that.

Having not done so, President Obama's performance was characterized as weak and distracted. Maybe that was the plan. Maybe he really was stunned by the sheer volume of lies.

Had he called Romney out on the lies, Obama would have been seen to be on the defensive, and it could have changed the dynamic of the campaign so far. Also, the debate would have turned into the typical children's exchange. Did not. Did so. Did not. Stick out tongue.

I think the time has come for the debates to come to a close. No more debates from 2016 onward. They really have become pointless.

In the meantime, I have little faith that the moderators in the next few debates will be any better than Lehrer, who was a disappointment.

Frankly, I think the moderators should take a more active role, forcing the candidates to respond to the question, and if they begin answering a question that was not asked - typical for Sarah Palin and Mormons - the mike should be shut off. Even if they don't get that proactive, candidates should be held to the time restrictions, and their mikes should be shut off at the time limit. No discretion. No do-overs. And the mike for the person not speaking should be shut off, so there's no interrupting. Also, the podiums should not be partially angled to each candidate. They should be facing directly outward to the moderator.

Of course, none of this will be done. The debates are little more than a variation on the Hunger Games, a game demanded by the corporate masters for the entertainment of their upper class patrons.

[left on green only]

99. I liked your idea....

......about cutting off the mic whenever the two instances occur that you have mentioned. The same thought occurred to me as I was viewing the debate last night. But please expound on the reason for modifying the angle of the podium. I cannot imagine how doing that would make the debates more fair or more successful.

upon edit for syntax

[thucythucy]

95. But "There you go again" worked fine for Reagan,

and is STILL being touted as the all-time greatest zinger in the history of presidential debates, even though Reagan's come-back was to Carter accusing him of opposing Medicare--which Reagan in fact DID. Carter afterwards said he didn't call out Reagan on his lie because he figured the press would do that for him.

Have Democrats learned nothing in 32 years?

During the next debate President Obama has to directly engage and refute these lies--at the very least he has to acknowledge that lies are being told. To allow these lies to go basically unchallenged before an audience of tens of millions of voters is to risk losing everything.

[Curmudgeoness]

96. Obama may have been caught off guard with all the denials, but

I loved when he said "For 18 months, he’s been running on this tax plan, and now five weeks before the election, he’s saying that his big bold idea is 'nevermind'." He did notice the inconsistency and he did call him on it in a really smooth way.

[Rain Mcloud]

97. Rec +1

[NightOwwl]

100. Damn straight.

+1

[hrmjustin]

101. Agreed!

[Nevernose]

103. My 16 year old, who knows very little of the issues

At least specific details of the issues, watched at a friend's house last night. Her man takeaway was, "Romney seemed a little psycho, and the way he bullied that old man was just sad." And I had a lot of students -- including Republican, Mormon students -- tell me without prompting that Romney might have won the debate, but he came across like a bully in doing so.

I'm not a conspiracy kind of guy, but this makes me think more and more like the media are playing us.

[Grammy23]

106. There is a reason Romney came across as a bully---and it's very simple----

It's because he IS a bully. There are multiple stories (some offered by his own children) that confirm this notion. The hair cut to his class mate. Impersonating a police office. Shoving his children's faces in food. Cutting in line ahead of his own grandchildren to fill his plate. FIRING PEOPLE. His nasty comments about the 47 %.

The man is a brash, boorish bully. And last night it showed.

Some of us have been watching this man for a long time and KNOW who he is and WHAT he is.

Other people got their first good look at him last night and some were not pleased with what they saw and perceived about him.
His fans (and yes, he does have some) thought he was great and cheered when he "won" the debate.
Others were not so smitten with Mitt.

[PATRICK]

108. Our discredited media

is still our national forum and despite all the persistent and consistent evidence as soon as we tune in the sh*t starts flowing. All of our discussions can include Hannity and O'Reilly etc. because they are there, intruding smack dab in the middle of vital discourse and the national conversation.

They shouldn't be there for any number of critical reasons. Romney should not be there. They are all related to the same problem. We "occupy" the bleachers. Obama enters there ring. We take them seriously without being able to take them on.

They self destruct. A little help along the way would be nice.

Obama prepares as all candidates, indeed as many previous GOpers would have for the "debate" per se knowing some of the media game board rules. However even though it was totally predictable, how does one intrude into the rude clown self destruct mode?

This is entirely consistent with the GOP primaries this year, the ultimate low in shameful displays daring to compete for the presidency. legitimacy, weight, respectability- to clowns, haters, idiots. Romney COULD do what he did best(barely) then, play the clown game then bury everyone in money lies ads and fraud. With media acclamation.

But set all that aside, even the media hangover of the Romney "content" and abominable "style" in a softly cautious aftermath of pimping for evil.

What is a special interest doing moderating presidential debates? Parties can let their special interests host and influence the selection process if they think that works for them, but the nation is denied fairness when the full choice is displayed. The bottom line is a polarized even contest means mega bucks flowing into media coffers. Either that stops or they should have no say in the debates in programming or refereeing(before, during or after). Not control of cameras, not the mediators, not anything because they have a built in money motive. That, nakedly shown, even before you get into the small clique of media owners and their ruinous effect on truth in media.

In the Superbowl at least two teams have to play by the same old rules whatever the framing even pre-eminence of the media show all around it. In political debates- and candidates have always been warned- once you start altering the game rules themselves for partisan advantages then the media can dominate everything, even self-righteously. Hypocritically disgusting on so many levels.

And a debate? How does it compare to any form of that cerebral sport? Stop accepting these stupid and ruinous media shows, this surrender to their feeble claws and simply establish boring unchangeable rules even moderators must adhere to and let the media hover around critiquing any violations or gaming of the system which they must air freely, without ads, commentary, or profit.

Dems who at any time think they can overcome by sheer quality or cleverness in playing the deceitful games need to give it up. The other side can present a batshit crazy used car salesman from China pissing on the American flag as a viable choice and sane lawful and competent Dems will always be a threat to their kingdom.

This whole election is a disgrace though Obama himself is not. The GOP fraud, A-Z, insane shameless, ruthless and unrelenting. The media stooges, presenting crap as gold and Obama as a target. The waste of money, rigging and prevention of votes. the sheer volume(both senses) of destructive lies more monstrous than any conceivable parody of real political skills(which you don't need when you have raw power to deprive people of power).

Though the outcome is certain you have to be uneasy, but you needn't be stupid either. The vast populous will not wake up en masse, just enough to bat away the crazy repugnant bad choice. Even people voting for Obama, even Obama himself will not get the big picture or the whole truth. You can win battles, wars and still fail as a civilization in frighteningly short order.

What you don't have to do is respect and feed the corporate media.

[uppityperson]

111. Thank you MIRT