BREAKING: PA Supreme Court rules election officials are PROHIBITED from rejecting mail-in ballots...

[Roland99]

BREAKING: Pennsylvania Supreme Court rules that election officials are PROHIBITED from rejecting mail-in ballots based on signature comparison.

Link to tweet

BREAKING: Pennsylvania Supreme Court rules that election officials are PROHIBITED from rejecting mail-in ballots based on signature comparison. Nor may a party "challenge based on signature analysis and comparisons."

https://www.democracydocket.com/cases/pennsylvania-kings-bench-petition/



Read the brief joining the Secretary’s petition here.
https://www.democracydocket.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/2020/10/Application-for-Intervention-1.pdf

Read the order granting application for extraordinary relief here.
https://www.democracydocket.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/2020/10/Order-Limited-Granting-Application-for-Extraordinary-Relief1.pdf

Read the opinion here.
https://www.democracydocket.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/2020/10/Petition-for-Declarative-Relief-Granted.pdf

[SWBTATTReg]

1. Good. This rejection solely based on unprofessional comparisons of signatures is ridiculous.

It's just a another ploy to reject legitimate ballots.

[MyOwnPeace]

5. Yep!

Just another way to "throw the finger" to "We, The People!"

[Kahuna]

20. In 2012, I voted in person and the poll worker questioned my signature...

I looked her. Are you kidding me? This signature looks identical to the one in the book.

[ananda]

22. Texas lost that same case..

It was the Ninth Circuit that ruled on that one.

[obamanut2012]

2. Most handwriting analysis is junk science anyway

But having non high-level experts even attempt it? Farcical.

[Hortensis]

48. I once read a supposed analysis of Trump's signature that pointed out

characteristics meant to signify personality traits in normal signatures. It obviously never occurred to him that Trump's signature is a time-consuming, stylized drawing of a high-rise skyline, or that what that signified might require different thinking. Trump could have been drawing a happy face with his Sharpie, and the guy would just have explained what the roundness of the figure revealed.

[Grins]

53. Comparison is not "analysis"

Handwriting analysis is detailed and fairly accurate. Took a course in it years ago for the fun of it. Total fun!

Last thing the instructor did, and went out of his way to do - show the women in the class (six of them, oldest was 31):

“Your boyfriend/guy you are dating has this for a signature, don’t walk - RUN!”

Showed several signatures of men who were violent, serial rapists, dishonest, flat out cruel. And he explained why that was.

Of course, I saw those signatures, too. That was in 1988. And when I saw Trump’s signature in 2017, my first thought was “Ho! Lee! Shit!! That’s just like those signatures!”

Given what we now know about him - pretty good match.

[Ms. Toad]

3. Excellent news -

Let's hope the decision was written to clearly call out a state-law based decision so there is no possibility to appeal to the federal system.

[exboyfil]

4. This should be a national finding

A signature comparison requirement should never have been included in any laws. We beat it back here in Iowa. It appears it is still operational in Texas.

No way should an untrained records official be allowed to decide if signatures match. A signature itself can serve to identify the race or ethnic background of an individual. Not even trained signature analysts would go out on the limb with a single example of a signature.

https://dailyiowan.com/2019/10/01/iowa-judge-upholds-voter-id-requirement-strikes-down-signature-matching-in-the-2017-voter-id-law/

[MFGsunny]

7. This! Should indeed be a national finding! n/t

[groundloop]

11. Yep.... and I bet someone with an afro-centric name gets more scrutiny than John Smith

[Statistical]

6. This is Yuge. Not only a great decision but one is a critical state like PA.

If Biden wins PA he is almost assured the white house. If he wins PA and FL it is all done.

[getagrip_already]

8. Is this really a good thing?

What is to stop someone, say a postal executive, from gathering up ballots, filling them in, and returning them?

Be careful what we ask for. Yes, they were abusing rejections, but they can also abuse ballots.

[Mr.Bill]

10. The same thing that stops people from doing a lot of illegal things.

If they get caught they go to jail.

[getagrip_already]

14. unless they are promised a pardon...

and all the postal inspectors are pulled off the job.

Yes, I understand the normal way things work. But this isn't normal.

[stopdiggin]

25. kinda with you here.

I understand the rationale for the ruling. But -- sans signature -- do we have some other method of verification -- or have we decided that verification is not necessary?
(open to suggestion, but ....)

[pnwmom]

33. They would be taking the risk that the REAL voters would realize they hadn't received a ballot

and call for a new one. The unreceived ballots would be cancelled when new ballots were issued. (They have ID numbers.)

And if multiple problems like this were attributed to a particular post office, that postal employee could find himself under investigation for a felony.

[bucolic_frolic]

41. Voter envelopes are uniquely tracked. Voters are notified when mailed, when returned.

So if your ballot never arrives, you notify them, and they'll cancel the initial voter envelope, and issue a new one, or you can vote provisional ballot, just don't try to pull down two votes. So if there were a flaw it would be a voter who didn't track his ballot.

[Rice4VP]

42. Oh please, who has that kind of time.

Can you honestly say that you sign your name the same way EVERY time? How is someone supposed to remember how they signed their name when they registered? It’s bogus

[kcr]

51. Yes. It's a very good thing.

Your argument is beyond weak. What's to stop them is the law. There's nothing stopping anyone from printing their own ballots, either other than it's against the law. There's nothing stopping Trump from declaring himself all-mighty lifetime ruler either. Except the law.

There are a million and one possible scenarios where people could break the law. We don't toss that aside and decide democracy doesn't matter.

[LiberalLovinLug]

9. Could Trump's lawyers use that to take to the SCOTUS after he loses Pennsylvania?

And his shiny new loyal cult member on the top court could tip the balance to overturn that decision? And thus de-legitamizing all mail in ballots from that State?

[Roland99]

12. not likely, esp since elections are up to each state on how to conduct them

[csziggy]

17. That did not hold true in Florida in 2000

SCOTUS ignored that and over rode the Florida Supreme Court's ruling on the recount.

[Roland99]

18. true

[getagrip_already]

30. and in the latest scotus ruling

4 justices ruled that it was in effect perfectly ok to over rule state sc rulings with respect to voting rights.

The only reason they didn't prevail was roberts went with the 3 liberal justices and a tie goes to the lower court which had a good decision.

After monday, that is not likely to happen again for quite some time. The court WILL over rule state supreme court decisions on a hyper partisan basis.

[csziggy]

35. Yes, I worry about the future of our country

Even when we defeat Dolt45 the damage that the GOP has done to this country will probably last longer than I have to live.

[BBG]

13. Great!

Wife heard about this last week and had us both rethinking our mailed in ballots. We’re voting here for the first time since moving last winter and we’re nervous about signature checking as we both kinda scrawl our way.

[barbtries]

15. i doubt we've heard the last of it.

they're probably already at the supreme republican anti-democratic court appealing.

[grantcart]

54. Doubtful, it was a unanimous decision included all Republican Justices

Not likely to get heard, less likely to win

[barbtries]

55. that's great,

i'm pleasantly surprised. this could be consequential. thanks

[asiliveandbreathe]

16. There is so much back story surrounding the PA Republicans efforts to disenfranchise PA voters..

The Pa. Supreme Court made the wrong call with mail-in ballot ruling | Opinion by none other than Linda Kerns..trumps campaign lawyer..


https://www.penncapital-star.com/commentary/the-pa-supreme-court-made-the-wrong-call-with-mail-in-ballot-ruling-opinion/

Just one of her arguments from article..but pathetic..

When ballots cast after Election Day are accepted, it fundamentally alters the nature of the election––something the Supreme Court reiterated after Wisconsin’s election mess in April. And with Pennsylvania’s long history of election fraud, extending the return deadline only increases opportunity for ballot fraud and illegal voting.

How they twist and belly ache..ballots cast after Election ..NO, Ballots cast, with postmark by Nov 3rd will be allowed to be counted if received by Nov 6th...

then, Pa. Senate Republicans take mail-in ballot fight to U.S. Supreme Court..CHAOS I tellya"..pishtaw...

https://www.penncapital-star.com/election-2020/pa-senate-republicans-take-mail-in-ballot-fight-to-u-s-supreme-court/

They know, as do we, the potential for PA to decide this election..now they are making the case for video taping voters mailing ballots...rats cornered....thank goodness the SCOTUS as we know it TODAY...

[DeminPennswoods]

40. But military ballots are ok to be counted after election day

nt

[asiliveandbreathe]

47. What do you mean...military ballots are ok to be counted after election day..

Their argument...CHAOS IN THE CITY....don'tcha know...sarcasm thingy....be well, we can do this...if only we had a time machine to send them (lying rethugs) back to where they want to be..the middle ages..

[moreland01]

19. Sorry, I don't agree with y'all on this one.

I've worked Signature Verification in Colorado a few times over the years. The first step is a huge machine (called Aegilis) flies thru all of the returned ballots and automatically matches (at the speed of light!) envelope signatures to the sigs on file. Only ones that aren't an automatic match get kicked out for a Dem and a Repub team to try to match with sigs on file. The County keeps LOTS of versions of people's signatures that they obtain from various areas (drivers license, etc.).

Only after that process, if they still can't get a match, they start seeing if another member in the household could have written the person's name. That does happen quite a bit.

If it's obvious that the person didn't sign their own ballot envelope, the Clerk writes a letter or calls (if election day is close) to ask the person to come down to the Clerk's office to verify their sig in person.

How else do you know that Dad or Mom didn't take everyone's ballot, vote it for them, sign their names and send it in?

I mean, do we not want ANY verification that people aren't having their ballots stolen? I so don't get people's aversion to this one little security check. It's not unAmerican to want to make sure your vote counted and wasn't stolen.

[LAS14]

26. The process you describe sounds reasonable. I tried to read the legal stuff in the OP's...

... post but just couldn't do it. I do agree with other posters that signature verification by an untrained person being the only step is not fair either.

[stopdiggin]

27. thanks. and thanks for your bit of expertise

on the process. (my state, too, will make every effort of "verify" a disputed signature with the voter before rejection). And I agree too that there seems to be a bit of tribalism in play here rather than rational consideration. So -- we're calling for no verification at all?

[Roland99]

32. There IS a verification process. The order says that the signature cannot be the reason for a reject

In the first guidance document issued on September 11, 2020 to all county boards,
Secretary Boockvar set forth the procedure the boards were to follow upon receipt of an
absentee or mail-in ballot. This guidance directed the county boards to examine the
declaration contained on the ballot return envelope containing the absentee or mail-in
ballot. It further directed the county board to “compare the information on the outer
envelope, i.e., the voter’s name and address, with the information contained in the
‘Registered Absentee and Mail-In Voters File, the absentee voter’s list and/or the Military
Veterans’ and Emergency Civilians Absentee Voters File.’” Pennsylvania Department of
State, Guidance Concerning Examination of Absentee and Mail-In Ballot Return

https://www.dos.pa.gov/VotingElections/OtherServicesEvents/Documents/Examination
%20of%20Absentee%20and%20Mail-In%20Ballot%20Return%20Envelopes.pdf. The
Secretary advised that, if the declaration is signed and the county board is satisfied that
the declaration is sufficient, then the absentee or mail-in ballot should be approved for
canvassing unless it is challenged in accordance with the Election Code. The Secretary
specifically cautioned the county boards of elections in this regard that “[t]he Pennsylvania
Election Code does not authorize the county board of elections to set aside returned
absentee or mail-in ballots based solely on signature analysis by the county board of
elections.”

...

Judge Ranjan discerned nothing in the text of these provisions which requires
county boards of elections to “verify” the signatures on mail-in and absentee ballots – that
is, to examine the signatures to determine whether or not they were authentic, Trump at
*53, and thus rejected Intervenors’ argument that Section 3146.8(g)(3) requires county
boards of elections to engage in signature comparison and verification. In Judge Ranjan’s
view, the county board of elections is required under this statutory provision to verify only
the proof of the voter’s identification by examining the voter’s driver’s license number, the
last four digits of his or her social security number, or other specifically approved form of
[J-113-2020] - 10 identification which is required by Section 2602(z.5) of the Election Code.10
Indeed, Judge Ranjan noted that nowhere in Section 3146.8(g)(3) does the term “signature”
appear. Trump, at *55.

[klook]

43. Ruling says officials aren't REQUIRED to reject a ballot SOLELY on the basis of signature mismatch.

The brief explains the thinking behind the complaint:
(Note: I've removed the citations to make it read more smoothly. Original at link.)

Lay officials routinely fail to account for the many reasons individuals’ signatures naturally vary, which causes them to reject ballots erroneously far more often than they accept a ballot erroneously. A voter’s signature varies for a host of reasons such as her health, the time of day, her level of concentration, nervousness, the writing instrument she uses, her stance, the surface she uses, and her level of stress. And because certain subgroups of voters—such as younger voters and voters for whom English is a second language—tend to experience wider signature variation, lay officials erroneously reject those voters’ ballots at a significantly higher rate.

[Rice4VP]

44. If you registered to vote 10 years ago, are you really

expected to sign your name the exact same way? When I sign the screen at a store, I scrawl, when I sign I work, sometimes I scrawl. I only take my time on taxes and official documents.

So they ar least show you what you signed when you registered?

[kcr]

52. Sorry, but signatures do change

It's not like that's the only possible way to verify ballots. You're on the side of those who want to disenfranchise voters, even if your intent is good.

[AllaN01Bear]

23. yay. id love to file up with a lawsuit on denying people their basic right to vote .

[MissB]

24. Wow.

I mean, Oregon does reject them based on signatures but we are also notified very promptly. It happens immediately when they receive the ballot. I’d get a text notifying me that they received it and there’s a problem. Instead I always get a text that says they received it and it’ll be counted.

Some states have a ways to go on mail in ballots!

[madeup64]

28. Arizona too

In 2018 I got a call about my ballot saying my signature didn't match. I didn't answer the phone so the worker left a voicemail. All I had to do was call back and say yes that's my ballot and I was good to go.

[DENVERPOPS]

29. I would guess

that my signature is not the same as when I registered to vote five decades ago..........

Sadly, my thinking is that TRUMP INC. will use this as another way to cloud the vote....."look, they don't even check signatures".....

[klook]

45. Just as they call even the most moderate Democrat "A SOCIALIST!!1!!11!"

Republicans will always try to cast doubt on free and fair elections where every voter gets to participate. In any closely contested election, they can only win by dissuading or preventing Democrats from voting.

[Sherman A1]

31. Excellent!

[RainCaster]

34. This court can smell the ratfuckery in the GOP actions

Do you think the SCOTUS will be as wise?

[asiliveandbreathe]

49. SCOTUS denied rethugs -

The Court’s 4-4 split upholds the ruling from the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, which interpreted the Pennsylvania Constitution to extend the state’s mail-in ballot deadline. In upholding the state court’s order, the Supreme Court denied a challenge from Republicans in the Pennsylvania legislature who opposed extending the deadline to allow for mail ballots to arrive

https://couriernewsroom.com/2020/10/20/pa-mail-in-ballot-deadline-extended-supreme-court/

[BumRushDaShow]

36. Supplemental

Link to tweet

TEXT

Jonathan Lai
🙊
賴柏羽
@Elaijuh
·
Oct 5, 2020
Replying to @Elaijuh
They dropped that after the PA Department of State issued guidance that county elections offices should not reject ballots “based solely on signature analysis by the county board of elections”.

Jonathan Lai
🙊
賴柏羽
@Elaijuh
Replying to @Elaijuh
Here’s last Friday’s guidance, which says ballots with blank (unsigned) envelopes should be set aside, not counted; “sufficient” signed ones counted unless specifically challenged; no rejecting ballots “based solely on signature analysis by the county board of elections”.
Screenshot of guidance from the Pennsylvania Department of State describing the background on whether and how to count ballots.
Screenshot of guidance from the Pennsylvania Department of State describing how county elections officials should track the date ballots are received, how they were returned, and their ballot status.
Screenshot of guidance from the Pennsylvania Department of State describing how to handle signatures on ballot envelopes: Do not count ballots arriving in unsigned envelopes, count sufficiently signed ballots unless challenged, and do not reject ballots "based solely on signature analysis by the county board of elections."

Jonathan Lai
🙊
賴柏羽
@Elaijuh
New: The Pennsylvania Supreme Court is using its King’s Bench power to take up the question of whether state law requires or allows counties to reject ballots based on signature analysis and perceived mismatches.
Screenshot of Pennsylvania Supreme Court order granting the application for King's Bench relief, limited to the following question: "Whether the Election Code authorizes or requires county election boards to reject voted absentee or mail-in ballots during pre-canvassing and canvassing based on signature analysis where there are alleged or perceived signature variances?"
Screenshot of order from Pennsylvania Supreme Court. Justice Dougherty files a concurring statement, Justice Baer files a dissenting statement, and Chief Justice Saylor and Justice Mundy dissent.
11:00 AM · Oct 14, 2020

[klook]

37. HUGE news!! Marc Elias is one of our most important champions.

Preet Bharara's interview with Elias on a recent Stay Tuned podcast episode was enlightening and reassuring.

Can Trump Steal The Election? (Oct. 8, 2020)

On this week’s episode of Stay Tuned, “Can Trump Steal The Election?” Preet is joined by Marc Elias, the Democrats’ top election lawyer and the person responsible for overseeing the Biden campaign’s state-by-state legal war room. Elias gives Preet the full rundown on voting: the facts on mail-in ballots, the current legal battles over voting rights all around the country, and the various ways that President Trump could attempt to undermine the outcome of the election. Plus, when will we actually know who won?

[bucolic_frolic]

38. Signatures change over time, fingers get wobbly as ligaments thicken

My own handwriting can slant a little left or right based on posture, sitting, standing up, in a car, on an envelope instead of a desk or table.

In some way I don't understand, handwriting echoes in relatives, or at least in my family. My handwriting looks increasingly like my dad's, my mom's was indistinguishable from her mother's, so yeah, singnatures are not an airtight basis for identification.

[DeminPennswoods]

39. The fact is, signatures change over time

I'm sure if anyone compares their signatures from high school, college, work, retirement, it would be easy to see the change.

[cab67]

46. I voted this morning.

It was literally drive-thru voting. After they checked my ID, they gave me a clipboard with the ballot and the envelope, which I was expected to sign.

Under those circumstances - signing a document on a clipboard up against my steering wheel - my signature probably bore little resemblance to any other signature I've ever produced.

[Cha]

50. Rt.. TY!

[not_the_one]

56. Court rulings are SOOO last century. They are like subpeonas, mere suggestions.

DeJoy has stopped all the bullshit and replaced all the sorters, hasn't he?

[BlueNProud]

57. SC rules only white, male landowners can vote. Is this far off really?