General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI know a lot of people who read DU also watch Dirty Jobs and Deadliest Catch.
So look who Mutt has campaigning with him in Ohio
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/09/26/mike-rowe-takes-dirty-job-campaigning-for-romney-but-wont-mention-his-name/
Siwsan
(26,333 posts)corkhead
(6,119 posts)bbinacan
(7,047 posts)proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)No surprise.
GoneOffShore
(17,346 posts)But then so was Reagan and so is Eastwood.
They forget who protects them.
EC
(12,287 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)yup: Originally a member of the Democratic Party, his positions began shifting rightward in the late 1950s, and he switched to the Republican Party in 1962.
eagan was first elected to the Board of Directors of the Screen Actors Guild in 1941, serving as an alternate. Following World War II, he resumed service and became 3rd vice-president in 1946.[42] The adoption of conflict-of-interest bylaws in 1947 led the SAG president and six board members to resign; Reagan was nominated in a special election for the position of president and subsequently elected.[42] He was subsequently chosen by the membership to serve seven additional one-year terms, from 1947 to 1952 and in 1959. Note: He resigned his presidency in 1960.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan
I've sometimes wondered if reagan wasn't a mole in sag. he certainly showed up at a most interesting time, & shortly afterward began his rise in politics culminating in the california governorship in 1967.
Erose999
(5,624 posts)unions away from.
Witness their silence over the union issues involved with the NFL, airline pilots, and other high paying professions.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Perhaps he had a message about working Americans he needed to deliver. It would be noteworthy if he were to show up at a Dem event too.
progressoid
(50,020 posts)He even has a "politics" tab. Mostly deals with news concerning the working class. But doesn't appear to take a side.
http://www.mikeroweworks.com/mikes-office/politics/
Bucky
(54,094 posts)Bucky
(54,094 posts)Or one with James Caan, John Voigt, Craig T Nelson, Kurt Russel, or Adam Sandler? Did you ever watch Frasier?
You watch Republican actors all the time. Why start something you have no intention of following through on?
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)And I do not watch shows with those actors.
Hayabusa
(2,135 posts)I have quickly learned that if I were to boycott a person or product or business that was Republican, I would be unable to shop just about anywhere. I've learned to live with that, and thus, I save the boycotts for when they do something completely idiotic.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)but seriously, I never mix entertainment with what stars political views might be, it doesn't matter. For example, I still like Clint Eastwood and am as much of a fan of his than before he spoke at the repub convention.
DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)Rowe will take any forum in order to get out the message.
He has never endorsed romney (although the campaign made that false claim on Monday and walked it back this morning), never mention him, never even uttered his name.
He has offered to appear with Obama, as well. The romney folks just grabbed him first.
Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)
darkangel218 This message was self-deleted by its author.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)I bet the Swamp People crew are republicans too, although I don't know why.
Response to bluestate10 (Reply #20)
darkangel218 This message was self-deleted by its author.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,382 posts)and thought they don't have a say in American Politics, I ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEE YOU that the douchenozzle, crap excuse for a truck driver Hugh "The Polar Bear" Rowland is without a doubt, a far right wing dicksniffle.
As professional driver with well over 20 years behind the wheel of heavy trucks, I can assure you that Mr. Rowland is NOT the kind of man I want to share the road with and I also guarantee he would be a Romney voter, through and through.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)That POS worked the roads when it was too cold to run his excavating/landscaping business in winter-time; he is only a 'trucker' because he needs trucks to move his equipment around from one job site to another.
One reason why he didn't actually know how to fill out a log book, or know exactly how the hours of service pertained to him.
Rowland is as much a 'trucker' as the guys running around with a backhoe on a step-deck going to dig a hole for a septic tank, or do rough grading before a lawn got installed.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,382 posts)I saw this one episode where he was running in Alaska. He had a flatbed and if I remember correctly, it was loaded with 3 of those large compressors on trailers, the kind where the unit looks like a metal box on two wheels. He secured the load but didn't do it right and one of the units slid forward during transit and damaged the one in front of it-actually damaging both.
He claimed that it wasn't his responsibility.
As a car hauler, I was astounded! I was yelling at the TV "Yes it is your responsibility, you fucking idiot, YOU'RE DRIVING THE TRUCK!!!"
He's an asshole. Plain and simple
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)figures he's a republican but a Mitt plugging Republican is a special brand of stupid. I mean, he does car ads and Mitt said let Detroit go bankrupt, so Rowe is pretty fucking smug as he takes his millions from Detroit if you ask me. That kind of qualifies as assholery.
ashling
(25,771 posts)reality from your commercials? ... like this:
Nothing fakey poo here!
PatSeg
(47,770 posts)That was awful! Almost as bad as Prell Shampoo that actually made one's hair "feel like straw".
ashling
(25,771 posts)picture Queen Anne in these commercials ... or not.
PatSeg
(47,770 posts)commercials were back then.
Not just "rich", but "Extra-Rich"! Oh I want some Prell right now!!!
progressoid
(50,020 posts)Hmmm??
ashling
(25,771 posts)inquiring minds want to know
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I used to be involved with that sort of thing professionally. So yeah I do look at commercials with a critical eye. I enjoy his work on the other shows, in the commercials he seems stilted and unnatural.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)LOL
ashling
(25,771 posts)proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)sammytko
(2,480 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,169 posts)The Stench must be awful.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)It never failed to amaze me that people who did those jobs and often for little reward would still vote Republican.
shanti
(21,675 posts)how disappointing, mike!
A HERETIC I AM
(24,382 posts)I like Mike Rowe. I think "Dirty Jobs" is a good show and he is one hell of a narrator.
It's OK with me if he wants to do that sort of thing.
I am always reminded of one of the best (in my opinion) lines from the movie "An American President" starring Michael Douglas and Annette Bening, when they are at Camp David and she says to him, "These are people who say they love America but clearly can't stand Americans."
I don't want to be one of those people.
Blue Idaho
(5,070 posts)Mike Rowe has a Non-Profit called MikeRoweWORKS. He has spoken before Congress. His message is an apolitical celebration of hard working blue collar men and women. He promotes a variety of training programs and the honor of all work. If you look at the link you provided it clearly states he NEVER mentioned Romney's name at this event, nor did he endorse him. As mentioned earlier, the Romney campaign had to retract it's statement that Mike Rowe supports Willard the Dullard.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)Have fun now.
Flatpicker
(894 posts)is that Mike has been looking to create a national dialog about supporting American labor and is willing to work both sides of the aisle as long as they listen.
Mitt was willing to read his letter (one that he has sent to both candidates) and brought him in to talk about his issues.
He has expressly stated that he is not endorsing Mitt with these actions, but wants the public to hear his message.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,382 posts)lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)eqfan592
(5,963 posts)...then I guess that's your choice.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)And it certainly is thank you.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)not crap.
Believe it or not, this is one fella that gets it, and needs to get the message out there.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Nor did he endorse Romney.
I know, I don't see things in black and white, sorry.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Apparently...
Black and white...have a good day.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Look it up.
Flatpicker
(894 posts)What a great example that is for our big tent mentality.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)vi5
(13,305 posts)Obama did not respond to the letter (from what I understand).
Rowe did not endorse Romney. He sent the same letter with the same purpose of calling attention to the importance of blue collar workers in America and the need to create and foster these jobs. He said he would appear with whoever responded (even if both did).
He may or may not be a Republican but this is not evidence either way. He has not endorsed either candidate.
progressoid
(50,020 posts)Rowe says he addressed a similar letter to President Obama in 2009, but received no response.
...
Romney and Rowe sat onstage alongside a half dozen Ohio business owners and leaders in Bedford Heights talking jobs and manufacturing.
"He's non partisan, he's not here to endorse me, he's not here to add support to one campaign or another," Romney said of his guest. "He's here to talk about his ideas about how to help America create more jobs."
Rowe described the importance of "the men and women who do the kinds of jobs that make civilized life possible for the rest of us," and said he attended the event at the invitation of Romney.
In the face of unemployment, Rowe said, "we can't just talk about opportunity and we can't just talk about training."
"The conversation needs to start in the kitchen, around the table with moms and dads and kids, and when these kids start to think about what's possible, mothers and fathers can't immediately push options off of the table because they've bought into the idea that some jobs are better than other jobs," he said. "This gets right to a really, really, really, really big point that the things we used to consider to be inspirational - jobs that we used to consider aspirational, education that we used to consider aspirational - we now look at as alternative. I don't even know what alternative education means, alternative to what?"
http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/09/26/dirty-jobs-mitt-romney/
There is an irony that he's speaking at this rRmoney event. He starts @ 6:30
Response to Blue Idaho (Reply #24)
Adsos Letter This message was self-deleted by its author.
Adsos Letter
(19,459 posts)"...careful reading, careful reading."
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)watching such suckie bullshit?
Edweird
(8,570 posts)Something that refutes this: "Contrary to some claims by the Romney campaign Rowe has not endorsed Mitt Romney for President." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Rowe
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)Edweird
(8,570 posts)I see a glaring flaw in your 'logic', one which will be fun to mock with google images.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Obama was on the same stinkin' stage when he attended their retreat.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)sucky bullshit like American Idol, Bachelorette, or Survivor?
I like Dirty Jobs and Deadliest Catch, and will continue to watch them. I didn't see Mike Rowe endorsing Romney anywhere.
Edweird
(8,570 posts)Also there's this: "Contrary to some claims by the Romney campaign Rowe has not endorsed Mitt Romney for President."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Rowe
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)Flatpicker
(894 posts)Mixing Dirty Jobs in with other reality programming does it a disservice.
I find DJ to not be exploitative and actually can be helpful in learning about things that I would never have a chance to think about doing. I didn't know that you maintained bridges in that way.
I used to be interested in stuff like that as a kid and the engineering and maintenance of our support services still impresses me.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)He loves annything that has to do with building things...especially big things. I do think Rowe has been a positive influence when it comes to this stuff. I think that's why I just don't care that much about him doing this.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)I stopped watching after Capt Phil died.
mangermerdeRWfreaks
(39 posts)I did watch both from time to time now I will not, why one may ask, because watching the shows will directly and indirectly impact his pay check and his money goes to Mitt and other RW fucwads.
I refuse to help RW scum in anyway, shape or form.
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)I still don't know who he is going to vote for, but I think Dirty Jobs and Deadliest Catch are two shows that honor the contributions and personalities of genuine, hard working blue collar people.
For all that Mike Rowe has done for real people, I'll give him a pass on this. The man respects the working class, and if he saw this as an opportunity to help us, then good for him.
mangermerdeRWfreaks
(39 posts)You may I do not.
and yes All Pubs are scum, without exception.
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)You are truly an honorable, enlightened, tolerant person.
I can't bring myself to hate people just because they are misinformed. That is one heck of a talent you have there.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)having some pizza soon.
mangermerdeRWfreaks
(39 posts)mangermerdeRWfreaks
(39 posts)Perhaps your inability to see them for what they really are by being wingers is part of YOUR problem of seeing things clearly in life.
Good luck in dealing with them.
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)Because they support policies that actively hurt and kill people. So blow off.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Edweird
(8,570 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)Sugarcoated
(7,739 posts)Like Bono meeting with shrub to get support for his humanitarian causes. I give Mike the benefit of the doubt. Unless someone can prove he's a Republibully, I'm reserving judgement.
Corgigal
(9,291 posts)I think the man just cares about the hard working people who he has spent some time with. If Obama wants him to speak then I sure he would.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)And no, I don't watch either show.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Sugarcoated
(7,739 posts)knee jerk DERP
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)The facts have been presented, but you can't let them get in the way of a good derp-fest.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...and I watch both shows.
Rowe is promoting his own cause and he's willing to do whatever it takes, including standing on a stage with Mitt-less Romney.
Sad to say, but there is a tendency among some posters on any board to shoot first and ask questions later. But hey, why let facts get in the way of a good fact-less rant?
Lint Head
(15,064 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,232 posts)As long as he isn't virtiolic in his rhetoric, it's nothing more than a shrug. Won't change my viewing habits. Republican persuasion hasn't switched me off of Clint Eastwood movies or Patricia Heaton TV shows, and I don't think this is any different. I can usually seperate one's artistic efforts from their personal beliefs.
Except Donald Trump. He's just a douche. Was and will always be one.
I will say that it is funny that speaking for Mitt Romney is indeed the dirtiest job of all.
Sugarcoated
(7,739 posts)He makes some good points
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/27/1136952/-Remarks-on-Mike-Rowe
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)"reality" shows about boring, banal people doing boring, banal things. If they showed ordinary people ORGANIZING for better working conditions, that would be something exciting. But just doing their jobs? YAWN.
Sugarcoated
(7,739 posts)FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)Please tell me you are being sarcastic! Your statement comes off as,
"I could care less about those icky boring people unless they are doing something that I am passionate about. Why don't they love and obey us and do what we want them to do?"
The Liberal/Progressive movement would be much stronger if those boring banal people doing boring banal things didn't look left and see elitism.
Thank goodness Mitt has that arrogant elitist air about him as well. If he were as relate-able as GWB (a fool, but a fool that people want to have a beer with), this might be a race.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)but most jobs are pretty boring and don't make great television entertainment--including mine. Wanna bring the TV cameras to my job and watch me type and look up words in a dictionary?
The current "reality" shows are nothing but a symptom of TV producers being lazy, uncreative, and cheap!
Sugarcoated
(7,739 posts)It shows the public what people do, behind the scenes, the God-awful things you and I probably wouldn't go near for any amount of money, and they do it with pride. Rowe has said he wanted to pay homage to his grandfather who was a pig farmer, give people a look at what these hard working laborers do, every day, with a smile. They deserve our respect. Being a Democrat that resonates with me.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)some 'banal boring' person will do their 'banal boring' job so you aren't ankle deep in shit.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)nor would I be interested in standing around to watch the plumber at work.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)I spent three years in the 1980s working mostly industrial temp jobs, and this assumption of class bias is really rich coming from people on a website where posters routinely make fun of "white trash."
The "reality" shows are simply a symptom of TV producers being 1) uncreative, 2) lazy, and above all, 3) cheap.
High-quality TV requires good writers, good actors, and good tech people. They all cost a lot more more than simply running a camera while some guy drives across Canada or hauls in a load of fish or cleans out a septic tank. If I thought these things were entertaining I'd go back to working as an industrial temp. (I never cleaned out a septic tank, but I did sort bedding and clothing caked with blood, piss, shit, mucous, and Lord knows what else while temping in a hospital laundry, so I do know something about dirty jobs.)
jeff47
(26,549 posts)And the massive elitism therein.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)OK. Then I'm proud to be an elitist.
I have plenty of respect for the PEOPLE who do the boring, low paid jobs. I've actually done those kinds of jobs. Have you, or are you an affluent person "slumming" by watching other people doing those jobs?
I have NO respect for the show biz producers who would rather follow people with a camera than hire good writers, good actors, good designers, etc.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)They are stupid and boring to you.
You are not everyone. Nor are you so wonderful that we all ascribe to be you.
There are no good writers, actors, etc on TV. In my opinion. But I also know it's just my opinion and do not pretend I should speak for everyone.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)The problem:
"Ohmigod he has a DIFFERENT POLITICAL POSITION THAN I DO! HE IS EVIL! I MUST HATE HIM! EVERYONE WITH HIS POSITION IS A NAZI!"
The solution:
"Eh, he has a different political position than I do. He's wrong, but whatever...it's a free country."
Which do you want to be?
Political polarization is a far greater danger to this country than any policies proposed by the opposition. To boycott an ACTOR simply because he likes someone we oppose is a bit silly.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)may not always agree with us politically. I don't see the big deal. Don't like it, don't watch. That's your right. Just like it's this dudes right to make a stop for the candidate he chooses.
I don't watch these shows, but if I did, I wouldn't think it was a big deal that he made a stop for Romney.
LaurenG
(24,841 posts)besides he "poops" baby chicks so I don't like him anyway. hmph...
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)off of the 47%, and now he stands up for "management". Fuck him.
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)He didn't use this platform to yell, "Go Mitt!" He used it to remind one of the groups that most needs reminding (the other being certain posters here) about the value of those "boring banal people doing boring banal things".
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)meeting. Appearing with him at a campaign event a month before the election is SUPPORT for the campaign. So, yeah...fuck him.
Sugarcoated
(7,739 posts)so yes, that's raising awareness. He's well liked by conservatives. He's trying to be bipartisan. But he's trying to raise awareness for the blue collar workers, that's a good thing.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)care to tell me why? I know, very republican of him, isn't it?
Black and white thinking is not a good thing.
jorno67
(1,986 posts)Last edited Thu Sep 27, 2012, 04:09 PM - Edit history (1)
He accepts and invite from Romney and then speaks to the crowd about the working class - I definite (D) issue and never endorses the guy who ships jobs over seas! Hell, he never even says his name! I think that took balls! He most likely even took a speaking fee that took $ out of the Romney campaign.
joshcryer
(62,287 posts)"The people who keep the lights on."
"Dirty Jobs is a tribute to (the working class)."
"Back in 2008, as you well know, the headlines started to catch up to the themes in Dirty Jobs."
"Think about what they do and the degree on which we rely on them."
"I don't know about you but I'm addicted to paved roads, cheap electricity."
"I think it (the bad employment numbers) from what I've seen it has something to do with the conversation we have on a daily basis."
"I'm here as a guest to the extent that I can contribute to the conversation." <-
You're so right jorno67. This is an epic, amazing, gutsy little speech.
jorno67
(1,986 posts)It's sad how many people are jumping to the wrong conclusion based on what the event was. I haven't seen a gutsy thing like this since Colbert owned the Bush Administration at the Correspondence Dinner.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)I still like Deadliest Catch, though.
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)Too bad Stinky and others in this thread were too lazy to actually read the article linked in the OP.
Stinky The Clown
(67,848 posts)The OP was posted with irony.
I can see the replies.
You're just as guilty of jumping to conclusions as anyone.
And don't call me lazy.
Nice try though.
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)to see who fell for your misleading OP and who actually followed the link. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and thought you were just being lazy. I apologize.
Stinky The Clown
(67,848 posts)Open your mind a bit and reread the OP from a different perspective.
Or not. You seem hellbent on a mission to confront me. I'm not buying. Have a swell evening. Buhbye.
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)I take it you knew that would happen.
Feel free to explain your perspective on this, I'd really like to understand where you're coming from.
Edweird
(8,570 posts)I'm not calling you a 'troll'. The OP is a 'troll' in the real sense of the word. Here in DU 'troll' has been misappropriated and re-defined to describe a rw disruptor. Stinky really helped some people show their ass and knee-jerk bigoted ignorance as well as inherent nastiness.
ohiosmith
(24,262 posts)At Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:29 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
Trolling is a art.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1435961
REASON FOR ALERT:
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)
ALERTER'S COMMENTS:
What, are opinions not allowed? So everyone that disagreed with this stunt is now a troll? What crap.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Sep 29, 2012, 11:46 AM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Opinions are allowed. The poster's opinion is just that, an opinion and not necessarily fact. Leave it.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: over the top
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Edweird
(8,570 posts)This thread is a troll. A successful troll. Granted, it's not one of the "Kate bar the door" throwdowns initiated by some of the more ham fisted posters (Le Zuchinni, Tex and long gone mindcontrol) but it is better in that it is subtle. That's the mark of a true craftsman. I'm impressed. It also helps 'out' the low information bigots and mob mentality group thinkers. The DU definition of troll appears to be 'disruptor'. Stinky isn't a disruptor. He is a wordsmith using his talent to achieve a goal - part of which I believe is his own personal entertainment
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)Seems like a pointless thing to do though.
newspeak
(4,847 posts)with a man who is against labor and unions who protect labor. I laugh every time I hear "right to work states." Talk about newspeak. It's the right to treat you like shite, the right to pay you slave wages, the right to give you an unsafe work environment and the right to deny a person work because of prejudice.
to the clueless, being on stage with mittens looks like an endorsement, no matter how hard he attempts to deny it. I suspect he is trying to get politicians to really look at hard working americans. However, if he is attempting to create empathy for laborers in the repug party, it's not going to happen-can't show empathy as a sociopath.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Because the guy's been a champion of the working class, posters are distrustful of his politics and feel vindicated when he's "found out".
H/T to Stinky for designing an effective social experiment.
Bucky
(54,094 posts)I'd be relieved if he did. Stinky's feisty, but he doesn't frequently play McCarthyite or mob incitor...
I was among those saying it was no big deal--all sorts of celebs are Republican. But I wrongly assumed that because Rowe showed up with Romney at a rally, he was endorsing him. So I guess I kinda got caught in the experiment's net.
Stinky The Clown
(67,848 posts)When I wrote that OP (fully thinking it was pretty much a throwaway) my first title was something along the lines of "Rmoney get's punked" or "Look who's punking Mutt."
Then I thought I'd play it a little straighter. The more fact-based OP title and a link to the story without comment. I thought everyone would get it.
Clearly not, since the "throwaway" post is still attracting comments.
Sometimes this place amazes me.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)Response to Bucky (Reply #129)
lumberjack_jeff This message was self-deleted by its author.
flyguyjake
(492 posts)at salvation are so fucking blatantly pathetic!