Ralph nader is a terrible person...

[iamthebandfanman]

who has never done anything for anyone ..
except :

Instrumental in the passing of the following legislation:
National Automobile and Highway Traffic Safety Act (1965)
Clean Water Act
Clean Air Act (1970)
Co-Op Bank Bill (1978)
Law establishing Environmental Protection Agency (1970)
Consumer Product Safety Act
Foreign Corrupt Practices Act
Mine Health and Safety Act
Whistleblower Protection Act
Medical Devices safety
Nuclear power safety
Mobile home safety
Consumer credit disclosure law
Pension protection law
Funeral home cost disclosure law
Tire safety & grading disclosure law
Wholesome Meat Act
Natural Gas Pipeline Safety Act
Federal Coal Mine Health and Safety Act
Wholesome Poultry Product Act
Occupational Safety and Health Act (OSHA) 1970
Safe Water Drinking Act
Freedom of Information Act
National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act


Founded or sponsored the following organizations:
American Antitrust Institute
Appleseed Foundation
Arizona Center for Law in the Public Interest
Aviation Consumer Action Project
529 14th Street, NW Suite 923
Washington, DC 20045
Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Buyers Up
Capitol Hill News Service Center for Concerned Engineering
Center for Auto Safety
Center for Insurance Research
Center for Justice and Democracy
Center for Science in the Public Interest
Center for the study of Responsive Law - 1969
Center for Women Policy Studies
Citizen Action Group
Citizen Advocacy Center
Citizen Utility Boards
Citizen Works
Clean Water Action Project
Clearinghouse for Professional Responsibility
Congress Project
Congress Watch
Congressional Accountability Project
Connecticut Citizen Action Group
Consumer Project on Technology
Corporate Accountability Research Group
Critical Mass Energy Project
Democracy Rising
Disability Rights Center
Equal Justice Foundation
Essential Information
FANS (Fight to Advance the Nation's Sports)
Fisherman's Clear Water Action Group
Foundation for Taxpayers and Consumer Rights
Freedom of Information Clearinghouse
Global Trade Watch
Government Purchasing Project
Health Research Group
Litigation Group
Multinational Monitor
National Citizen's Coalition for Nursing Home Reform
National Coalition for Universities in the Public Interest
National Insurance Consumer Organization
Ohio Public Interest Action Group
Organization for Competitive Markets
Professional Drivers (PROD)
Professionals for Auto Safety
Public Citizen
Pension Rights Center
Princeton Project 55
PROD - truck safety
Public Citizen's Visitor's Center
Public Interest Research Groups (PIRGS)
Resource Consumption Alliance (conserve trees) 1004
Retired Professionals Action Group
Shafeek Nader Trust for the Community Interest
Tax Reform Research Group
Telecommunications Research and Action Center
The Visitor's Center
Trial Lawyers for Public Justice


Seriously, you nader haters need to just give it a rest.
Why do you even care what he says if hes that marginal and unimportant to you?

You know, at one point here on DU.. people said if the next president didnt do something about the wars and prosecute people in the bush administration theyd be guilty of the same crimes...
just sayin'.
----------------

Sorry, but i had to repost this in a different section of the forum .. it was 'hidden' because people simply dont like my opinion. thats not what the hide button was created for.
The person who alerted stated "Pure flame bait thread. Why this, why now?" I guess that would be true.. if the post that was directly underneath mine wasnt a thread talking about ralph nader being a piece of trash. thats why this, and now.

nowhere in this post is there anything personal, attacking, or profane. just an opinion of mine after seeing people again bashing him for a comment he made while at the same time talking about how irrelavant he is.. so why ya on here quoting him and bashing him if thats the case?

I mean, im sorry some of you dont like my opinion (one of the jurors said 'right wing enabler' as their reasoning..).. but its just an opinion! get a grip!!

[a geek named Bob]

1. I agree that Ralph has done a lot of good in the world... BUT

His ego screwed up the 2000 election, and Rolling Stone covered him as saying he wanted to "punish" democrats.

[DemzRock]

4. Agreed...

One "oh crap" cancels out 5 "atta boys," and one OHMYFREAKINGAWD can cancel out all the good you've done. Would it had been so hard for him to campaign FOR Gore, for example? His efforts since 2000 seem to slant toward helping the Greater Evil.

Also, I like the Corvair!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

30. I had one like this...

[img][/img]

A 64 Monza Spyder Convertible. Same colors only mine came with the Turbo.

That thing was great for driving on dirt roads when I lived in the mountains. VW Owners discovered that about the Beetle and made the Baja Bug famous. I used Baja type knobbies on it.

[RoccoR5955]

48. One B-I-G problem with that Monza

Was that you had to move the engine to get the rear spark plug on 6 cylinder models. I hope you didn't have one of those!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

50. I did.

It was a pain in the ass. Another problem was the oil cooler was prone to leaking and all it took was a few stinking leaves getting in there to block it. Good thing there was an access plate. It was on the front left hand side as you faced the engine so that was no big deal. I finally put thumbscrews on the fan shroud bolts since it seemed everything started with removing it.

[a geek named Bob]

43. never drove one

but ralphie the wonder squirrel is a hypocrite...

he took GOP money to run against Gore.

[RoccoR5955]

49. who told you that lie?

can you back up that statement about Nader taking GOP money, or is it something you read on the Internet, so it MUST be true?

[a geek named Bob]

63. okay

http://www.factcheck.org/radio_ad_attacks_nader_over_gop_support.html
http://www.sccdp.org/sites/default/files/nader.htm
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1152747

is that enough?

[RoccoR5955]

71. Thanks.

I didn't know that.
But then again, he was running as an independent on the Green Party.
I suppose that there would be people from both parties backing them.

[a geek named Bob]

72. When I first heard about it, I was shocked.

I mean, I was a kid, when Nader was protecting the public. I used to think he was the definition of cool.

Then the stories started coming out. I don't know WHY he went bad, but he did. It really harshed my day.

[sabrina 1]

56. All Candidates take GOP money, unless you think all those Bush donors who switched

to Obama in 2008 were Liberals. Or all those Major Corps who donate to both parties, are all Liberals? This is the kind of childish claims made in order to take the heat off the Criminals on the Supreme Court, all five of them Republicans for the theft of the 2000 Election.

Nader had zero to do with that despite the propaganda spread around in order to protect and divert from that major crime. What Nader did was perfectly legal and part of the Democratic Process. What the Criminals on the SC did was totally undemocratic and unconstitutional.

If you don't like the Democratic process where anyone can run for president or any other office, then work to change it. But stop whining about it and attempting to turn it into a crime of some sort so long as we are still a democracy.

What those who hate Nader never do is to attack the actual criminals who really were responsible for that crime. Which I always find very interesting.

Gore won the 2000 election. SC Right Wing Criminals stole it from him.

Nader had nothing to do with that. It would be more productive not to fall for the diversionary tactic of pointing fingers away from the actual criminals who have so far, managed to get away with that crime.

[still_one]

6. he wanted to "punish" Democrats. Will he has succeeded in making himself irrelevant that most

people who classify themselves as Democrats or even progressives, just ignore him

[Fantastic Anarchist]

44. I'm a progressive and I don't ignore him.

[still_one]

46. majority do. He does not have the following he once had, nor will he have it again /nt

[frylock]

57. have anything to actually back that assertion up?

stats? an article? anything?!

[still_one]

61. Yes, he had no impact in 2008, and his anti-Obama crusade will

not influence any progressives in any meaningful way

He mentioned in February he prefers Ron Paul over Obama. That will not sway progressives

The only people who care about him are the corporate media and repukes who try to use him to divide democrats

Nader and his fillers will not impact sqwat

[frylock]

64. so it's your opinion that we're talking about here then

[still_one]

67. Yes, and can you show me a poll that says otherwise?

[frylock]

82. oh, gee. sorry, i don't play these freeper games..

you made the assertion, you provide the proof.

[still_one]

86. I do not know what you mean by freeper games, but ok. /nt

[Union Scribe]

2. I'm not a huge Nader fan but

I agree that "it was 'hidden' because people simply dont like my opinion. thats not what the hide button was created for."

[mangermerdeRWfreaks]

60. Nader speaks truth to power and most can't deal with that reality

when it is easier to attack the messenger then discuss the real issues and problems.

When Dems, Liberals and Progressives cannot openly discuss the issues on an anonymous message board it is a symptom of a bigger problem of either the people in the party who don't think the tent is actually big or the message board itself.

I am of the opinion that blaming Nader for Dem losses is just plain silly; the Democratic Party has moved way to the right in the last 30 years and many people are sick of it. I know I am. NAder is just saying what needs to be said, one can agree or not agree with what he says but it needs to be said.

[still_one]

3. Because of nader's ego, a women's right to choose, rights to privacy, social security, medicare,

labor rights, civil rights, even what you say he accomplished can be destroyed in the blink of an eye because of his complicity in 2000.

The only saving grace is that he will NEVER have the influence among the many progressives who once respected him. He is now an irrelevant citizen, who helped get george bush elected, and he will NEVER have that kind of influence again

[DemzRock]

5. Agreed. n/t

[October]

79. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

You summed it up so well.

That long list by the OP has nearly been washed away because of everything he did SINCE those days.

He stinks at politics.

[gopiscrap]

7. But he's turned in to a sour grapes asshole

because he's been marginalized since fucking the Democratic Party so he has to say outrageous shit in order to get noticed.

[moobu2]

8. He's just another self absorbed multi-millionaire now.

And he's responsible for G. W. Bush being elected.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. Which is a hell of a lot more than politicians do.

[limpyhobbler]

10. I like Nader because I like his policy proposals. Wow that's crazy.

If the Democratic party wants to blame somebody for the 2000 election loss, try looking in the mirror.

If they wanted to make him shut up or go away they could have adopted a few of his very modest policy proposals (like repealing the Taft-Hartley Act) Nader always said he would be happy to see the Democrats take on some of his agenda so he could go away.

People try to act like it was about his ego. Sounds wrong to me. It was all about policies, and about the Democrats gradually morphing from a center-left party into a corporate dominated party whose main role is to serve as a defender and apologist for the power elite.

This website is obsessed with Nader. Do liberals feel guilty for collaborating with Republicans to purge the left wing? Do they use Nader as a scapegoat to absolve themselves of that guilt and to rationalize their own complicity in the matter?

[ProSense]

15. The RW uses Nader

and he complies. Interview with Tucker Carlson's Daily Caller:

Nader rules out another run but ‘almost 100 percent’ certain Obama will face primary challenge

http://dailycaller.com/2011/08/04/nader-almost-100-percent-chance-of-a-democratic-primary-challenger-to-obama/#ixzz27Xzxp15V

[limpyhobbler]

17. The Democrats create a vulnerability by abandoning the left.

And by collaborating with Republicans to protect the corporate power elite.

Even though it doesn't seem to be much of a real vulnerability this cycle, since support for the minor left parties seems pretty negligible.

But don't be surprised if it comes back to bite them in a future election.

I don't see how that article shows the RW using Nader.

But even if the right wing created and funded a left-wing spoiler candidate to "steal" voters from the Democratic Party, it wouldn't matter if the Democratic Party didn't work so hard at abandoning important parts of its base, such as environmentalists, trade policy enthusiasts, poverty activists, pacifists, clean water enthusiasts, and the radical left.

[dreamnightwind]

18. +1

[bbgrunt]

19. +5000

[ProSense]

24. This is like a fantasy

"And by collaborating with Republicans to protect the corporate power elite."

Yeah, I remember how the 2000 and 2004 elections prevented that.

"But don't be surprised if it comes back to bite them in a future election. "

Been there, and I'm damned glad he failed in 2008.

"But even if the right wing created and funded a left-wing spoiler candidate to "steal" voters from the Democratic Party, it wouldn't matter if the Democratic Party didn't work so hard at abandoning important parts of its base, such as environmentalists, trade policy enthusiasts, poverty activists, pacifists, clean water enthusiasts, and the radical left"

"Environmentalists" like Al Gore?

Nader is an ass!

[limpyhobbler]

65. Nader is just a guy. The issues matter. The man is of no significance.

It should be a masked person like sub-commander marcos, or pussy riot.

The material issue for me is this: Quit siding with corporate power and shitting on the poor.

This website seems kind of obsessed with Nader bashing.

But people almost never talk about the important issues that Nader brings up. I think the liberals bash Nader personally as a way of discrediting his policy proposals, because those proposals irritate corporate donors and the power elite.

[limpyhobbler]

68. I'm printing 'Al Gore 2016' bumper stickers. Here is a reward for bringing up Al Gore...

Former Vice President Al Gore sharply criticized President Obama as lacking leadership on climate change in a magazine essay published online Wednesday, saying his policies had been little more effective than those of President George W. Bush.

...snip...

But Mr. Gore said that in the face of well-financed attacks from fossil fuel industries and denial and delay from Republicans in Congress, Mr. Obama had failed to act decisively to alter the nation’s policies on climate change and energy.

Addressing climate change on national and international levels will require forceful American leadership, Mr. Gore said.

“Yet President Obama has never presented to the American people the magnitude of the climate crisis,” he wrote. “He has simply not made the case for action. He has not defended the science against the ongoing, withering and dishonest attacks. Nor has he provided a presidential venue for the scientific community — including our own National Academy — to bring the reality of the science before the public.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/23/science/earth/23gore.html

OK let's hear it... "Al Gore is an ass", right?

[Vidar]

34. +1

[99Forever]

55. Well put...

... but as per usual, the Obama can do no wrong crowd will just keep playing the same game they always do. There will come a time when it bites them in the ass again, just as it did in 2010. And once again, they will shirk any responsibility for their screw-up.

Reminds me very much of the true believer Republicans.

[spirit-soul]

53. Obama is a hawk. Learn to deal.

You, my friend, as others on DU (Sid Dithers and Clean Hippie) are a SHILL. I don't know who pays you or what makes you race to certain threads and spew pro-war crap, but you should change your name to pro-drone.

[Warren DeMontague]

76. Yea, but has he increased funding for library internet access?

[SidDithers]

80. Fuck. PPR'd already...

Sid

[bbgrunt]

21. you're getting too close to the truth--watch out!

[AnOhioan]

39. Bravo..well said

[MuseRider]

52. Agreed.

[frylock]

58. and boom goes the dynamite

[SheilaT]

11. I worked at National Airport in Washington, DC in the 1970's.

I can tell you that man was completely unable to make it on time for a flight.

[tama]

33. Damn hippie! nt

[ProSense]

12. Wow a list of

legislation passed by Congress. A list!!!

None of Nader's past actions can make up for the jerk he has become.

He's such a blight on the political scene he was pushing Americans Elect.

Ugh!

[Capt. Obvious]

95. "Wow a list of legislation passed by Congress. A list!!!"

Glad to see you can poke fun at yourself.

[Jamaal510]

13. Ralph Nader: A man with great ideas, but no viability.

People like him who are further away from the "center" will never have a snowball's chance in Hell of winning an election until there's some type of election reform, like enacting ranked choice voting.

[Honeycombe8]

14. You do realize he didn't do ALL those things, right?

He may have been FOR many of those things, but he did not enact even one of those laws. He has never been a legislator.

What you list is the old Nader. The "before" time. Before he became super famous. Before he became fairly wealthy. Before he became enamored of himself and all he has accomplished. Before he lost sight of what he started out to accomplish - making this a better country for the average person.

It is true, though, that he was once a knight in shining armor. But his armor creaks, his sword flails about, hacking away at anything that gets in his way of his dream of holding an important political office, even though were it not for his ego he would know there was no chance of that ever happening. Even though it disrupts important, legitimate candidate campaigns.

Nader is not a bad person through and through. He is a good person who has allowed himself to become corrupted on the inside, putting himself before his causes. His cause became himself.

[pnwmom]

16. Yeah, too bad he took the wrong direction starting around 2000.

He'd done a lot of good up till then.

[white_wolf]

20. Yeah he has done some good and the people blaming him for 2000 should look at the Democratic Party.

Seriously, if Gore lost votes to Nader it's Gore's fault for not earning those votes as simple as that. No one owes the Democratic Party their vote, they have to earn it. Furthermore, Gore won that election. Blame Bush and a criminal Supreme Court not Nader.

[treestar]

22. You wouldn't be one of those who sneer at the list of the President's accomplishments?

Founding organizations doesn't mean much and Acts of Congress were all passed by Congress and signed by a President - those individuals get credit too.

[Luminous Animal]

26. You are right. MLK had little to do with getting the Civil Rights Act passed.

Thank god for Congress! Those tireless advocates for citizens just naturally do it on their own. Hell, they even gave women the right to vote! Those crazy women, blacks, and environmental activists, what were they griping about? Didn't they understand that Congress (which always does the right thing tout suite) would take care of everything?

[Mopar151]

23. It is important to note

That Nader got the Corvair story wrong, in a couple important ways. The "design defect" in the 1st generation Corvair could be remeidated with the right shock absorbers and decent tires ( remember 6.50-13 bias plies?), and was fixed in the 1965 model year redesign.
The Corvair had a bunch of real problems, with 2 major issues - rust, particularly in the front crossmembers (No worse than current Subarus and many Toyotas) and heater ducting on the engine that brought exhaust and/or oil fumes into the car (air-cooled competitor VW beat this with scrupulous design of the heater ducting).
Didja know that Ralph Nader never held a drivers license?

[Luminous Animal]

28. No he didn't. His book wasn't about the Corvair.It was about how corporations suppress safety issues

and he used the Corvair as as illustration in the 1st chapter. The "right shock absorbers" didn't come stock with the 1st several generations of production and decent tires were never an issue. I say this as a long time lover and an owner of several Corvairs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsafe_at_Any_Speed

[Mopar151]

32. I still trust my friend's opinion on the suspension issue - he's owned somewhere north of 50.

Virtualy all base model American cars of the era came with cheap, lousy shocks and crap for tires. Some designs are more sensitive to that than others.
The Corvair was symptomatic of a couple major problems with GM cars - obsession with production cost, particularly in the "value engineering" phase of development, and a willingness to use customers as "beta testers" for new technology. I was a GM dealer tech when the Citation was introduced - GM made similar mistakes with them, and, if anything, they were not as good a car as a Corvair.

[Luminous Animal]

35. Yes, the Corvair was symptomatic and it was used in 1 chapter of 8 to illustrate that symptom...

it was not a polemic against Corvairs but rather a book that described a lack of concern for safety and the Corvair was but one example out of many.

[Tarheel_Dem]

25. WoW! Pretty impressive list, except just like the Crypt Keeper, Ralph's never been a legislator....

and never will, but they do bear a striking resemblance.

[Luminous Animal]

29. Yep. There are no important people except those that legislate...

Not Mother Jones, nor Harriet Beecher Stowe, nor MLK, nor Thomas Paine, nor Susan B. Anthony, nor Helen Keller. Losers all of them.

[libodem]

27. Yeah

FUCK NADER!!!!!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

31. I'll never forgive him for taking Republican money to knowingly be a spoiler in 2004.

Sorry. 2000 was a fluke but 2004 was a chance to redeem himself and he let greed destroy him.

[The Doctor.]

36. And as many have probably said, he ultimately FUCKED US ALL.

He couldn't tamp down his fucking ego enough to help the properly elected president, Al Gore, take office.

Sorry,but it made enough of a difference that it cost us 2 towers, 3000 civilians on US soil, 2 wars, 1000's of servicemen and women, nearly a million civilians overseas, a few TRILLION dollars we didn't have, the scorn of the civilized world, our national decency, and ultimately our economy.

He HELPED to fuck us just as much as the SCOTUS did that day almost 12 short years ago.

He may be 'right' about things, but he wronged us all. And there's nothing he's done, or ever will do, that could ever approach rectification of that.

[redgreenandblue]

40. Complete logic fail.

[The Doctor.]

89. Normally, an explanation is supposed to come with such a disagreement.

Lacking that, my only conclusion is that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Logic win.

[jimlup]

37. Strongly agree

As Nader pointed out - the 2000 elections "should have been a Slam dunk" by Gore. They were not because Gore tried to curry favor with establishment "mainstream" viewpoints rather than stating a clear and decisive vision. Don't get me wrong I love Al as much as the next democrat but he should have had Florida 2000 and small percentage of Nader votes (who may well have voted 3rd party regardless) is but one of many factors and a very minor one at that.

[Le Taz Hot]

38. Gladly K & R'd.

You forgot one:

- The name "Nader" serves as the predominant dog whistle for the Party Faithful who INSIST that it was Nader's fault the election was "lost" in 2000.

[longship]

41. Personally responsible for eight years of George W Bush as President

I think that kind of erases all the so-called good he's done. Two wars, the longest in US history.

Fuck Ralph Nader! Fuck him in the ass with a stolen dildo.

[bluestate10]

66. Which did more to damage the country than any thing Nader is claimed to have

accomplished. Everything that the OP claims Nader, and Nader alone, worked for got seriously rolled back by Bush II. President Obama has worked hard to correct that fuck-up.

I take serious offense to the claim that Nader did the list the OP gave. Nader didn't accomplish shit, politicians and citizens that had the foresight and bravery to push for social change did.

[JHB]

42. And If he'd stick with those, fine. It's the political gadfly part that causes the anger

Popping up occasionally for third-party presidential runs hasn't accomplished any of the goals, has it?

[SidDithers]

45. Whatever. Fuck Nader...nt

Sid

[Octafish]

75. Good one!

From an article Ralph wrote for CounterPunch:

Fully 100 percent of the nation’s 500 biggest corporations are dependent on various kinds of corporate welfare – subsidies, giveaways, bailouts, waivers, and other dazzling preferences – while many pay no tax at all on very substantial profits (see their familiar names – General Electric, Pepco, Verizon etc. – at http://www.ctj.org/pdf/notax2012.pdf).

[SidDithers]

81. ...

Sid

[Mopar151]

47. His acolytes were no picnic, either - like Joan Claybrook

The pervasive anti- car attitude at NHTSA (and their pals at IIHS)thru the 70's and 80's effectively cut vehicle safety research off from its best and most vital source for information, and fostered a "passive safety" approach that compromises real-world safety to this day.
Not to mention some amazing boondoggles - Like the "ESV" prototypes from AMF and Fairchild-Hiller, costing millions each at a time when a NASCAR "rolling chassis" from Holman-Moody cost $10K, or the front-drive, rear-steer, unrideable "safety motorcycle".


PS: That "roller" would accept the engine and driveline from a police cruiser with very minor changes.

Want to see some of that irrelevant technology in action?

[graham4anything]

51. Nader and his fans aided and abetted Dick Cheney & George W. Bush & his presidency

why are they deniers?

Without Nader, Bush would not have won New Hampshire, making Florida irrelevant.

what a stupid, racist man Ralph Nader is.
Anything he had done in the past is long forgotten.

he is a fraud
he is a sellout
and he made Bush president.

not to mention a f-k-g liar.
NO Ralphie dearest, Bush and Gore were NOT the same. Nor were Bush and Kerry. Or Obama and Mitt.

NO Scotus proves you are a fu''ing liar Ralphie.

[GoneOffShore]

54. He's done some great stuff, but he's still an asshole.

With his "not a dime's worth of difference" bullshit.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

62. Actually there is a lot of similarities between Ron Paul supporters and Nader supporters....

Both go around saying unless their guy wins America is doomed and claim they are "enlightened".

It's a like a cult of personality.

Nader is absolutely right on a lot of issues but,....well that's it. It's the "but". He would have been better off creating a powerful liberal system outside of Washington as he promised instead of running for President with zero support in the current system.

[PatrickS]

59. Egomaniac

Nader didn't like that someone else, Al Gore, was going to be president who sided on most of the issues he campaigned for. It's all about ego. Sad. He saw Gore as someone would might get credit for the stuff he did. He used to be great but this has diminished his stature in a permanent way.

[bvar22]

69. Didn't you know? Nader was a SUPERMAN.

This mild mannered geeky little Consumer Activist knocked the wheels off the entire Democratic Party and cause Gore to lose in 2000!

Was Nader's message THAT STRONG?

OR

...was the Centrist, Anti-LABOR, Free Trading, deregulating, privatizing Democratic Party platform and Clinton legacy that weak?

You decide.



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

[CrispyQ]

70. +1

Did Nader lie?

When the next repub president continues the Drone Wars, will we consider that president to be a war criminal? Or are water boarding & drones as American as apple pie now?

I'm voting for Obama. I don't expect to see any serious change until the wheels start to fall off the global cart, which considering the Arctic reports, is probably going to happen sooner than most of us thought. Certainly sooner than we're prepared for.

In the meantime, I believe all women should have the choice to be mothers & not forced into it by a bunch of religious zealots who think that freedom of religion gives them the freedom to shove their religion down other people's throats.

[graham4anything]

84. and you will only get that from Obama and then Hillary 45 not from Naderepicfail

you do understand that the schmuckNader indeed brought about Bush
(almost as if he knew it would and was privy to inside info).

because real shit happens when you least expect it
it's called the law of unexpected consequences

just to feed his ego(that was paid for by phony rightwing mouths sending love to Nader that he mistook and allowed to feed his ego.

someone else put a thread about John Lennon up today and sad to say, Nader took away just as much as the asswipe that did John Lennon in took away.Yes they did.

[CrispyQ]

90. Hey, I said I'm voting for Obama.

Live in the now! Nader is so last century. Instead of whining about Nader, why not do something to help progressives, now?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1421562

Welcome to DU.

[Octafish]

73. Other than that, what has he done for We the People lately?

Not a Gaffe Machine

The Full Romney

by RALPH NADER
CounterPunch
WEEKEND EDITION SEPTEMBER 21-23, 2012

There was something missing from the release of a tape showing Mitt Romney pandering to fat cats in Boca Raton, Florida with these very inflammatory words: “There are 47 percent who are with him, (Obama) who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it. These are people who pay no income tax.” Romney said his job “is not to worry about those people.”

Hey, Mitt, why start with the 47 percent? Fully 100 percent of the nation’s 500 biggest corporations are dependent on various kinds of corporate welfare – subsidies, giveaways, bailouts, waivers, and other dazzling preferences – while many pay no tax at all on very substantial profits (see their familiar names – General Electric, Pepco, Verizon etc. – at http://www.ctj.org/pdf/notax2012.pdf).

Are the corporations that receive this corporate welfare going to vote for President Obama? (Mr. Romney has declared that corporations are people.) Of course they’re not. Nor are all of the 47 percent of people who are “dependent upon government.”

Mr. Romney doesn’t understand the double standard where government checks, whether already paid for or not, to people are called “entitlements” while far bigger checks to corporations are called “incentives.” Romney has lost control of his self-consciousness. Here is a man who talks about 47 percent of American households paying no income taxes (more on this later) while he has refused, unlike his father, to release back years of tax returns because they’ll show he has parked much of his wealth and income in foreign tax havens like the Bahamas precisely in order to avoid paying U.S. taxes.

Indeed, as tax expert and former New York Times Pulitzer prize-winner David Cay Johnston said on Democracy Now, Romney has maneuvered the tax laws so that his five sons will continue to receive millions of tax-free dollars from their parents’ enormous pot of wealth.

Why aren’t the big-time Democrats making much more of an issue of this “make or break” Romney campaign vulnerability? Maybe it is because, as author Kevin Phillips once said, “The Republicans go for the jugulars while the Democrats go for the capillaries.”

CONTINUED...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/09/21/the-full-romney/

[Taverner]

74. Man, did someone dig up the Boogeynader again?

[Warren DeMontague]

77. Yeah. Except for the paid Republican operative thing, he's peachy.

Sorry, like too many "more radical than thou" types, he ended up enabling the bad guys by trying to prove how much cooler he is than the good guys.

He's an idiot, and I'm sure karl rove has a framed picture of him over his fireplace.

[hrmjustin]

78. I don't like him because of 2000. He cost us votes. All the good he did...

... went away for me.

[Kelvin Mace]

83. Yeah, I know, but he dared criticize someone for something they did

and that is unforgivable.

Hell, the other day I finally relented and admitted I planned on voting for Obama (as a proxy for suppressed votes) and was scorned and derided because I wasn't voting for an approved reason.

[frogmarch]

85. The evil that men do (2000) lives after them.

The good is oft interred with their bones.
So let it be with Nader.

I had great respect for Ralph Nader until he became a spoiler in the 2000 election.

[bigwillq]

87. K and R

[DonCoquixote]

88. Yesterday's heroism

is never an excuse for today's crimes.

Gilles de Rancourt was a hero of France, helping Joan of Arc win. In his later days, he became a serial killer that targeted children . All the good he did for france did not save him for having to answer for his crime.

And nader, by allowing Bush in, DID help kill a LOT of children.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

91. Well yes and he undermined most of those pieces of legislation

By helping to elect the most right wing administration in America's history that trashed almost every precept that he championed in his lifetime. And yet he continued to help them in every way he could

I guess in all fairness he gave most of the organizations he established a lot of work during the Bush years by monitoring the various violations of all those areas that Bush and his cronies engaged in. I guess that's one novel way to ensure the organizations you've established are kept busy, help elect a government that wants to destroy everything they stand for.

Sure, he's done a lot of good in his life but he's completely undone a lot of that by his own self-serving and self-indulgent actions over the past twelve years. And as well as the acts listed here, you should also make a list of everything he's been responsible for by helping the smirking chimp get elected twice. I guarantee that list would be a lot longer

[limpyhobbler]

92. Nader didn't steal or spoil the election. Democrats should stop taking left-wing votes for granted.

[uppityperson]

93. So Pres Obama is guilty of war crimes? Yes, Nader has done some good stuff. But Obama is "guilty of

the same crimes" for not prosecuting bushites?

[stlsaxman]

94. oh... fuck- you mean to tell me HE'S RUNNING AGAIN?!?!?