I don't like the fact we are playing the GOP's game with the SCOTUS nom.

[TeamPooka]

The President gets to pick a nominee. The Senate confirms.

Yeah Trump gets to pick RBG's replacement, because Hillary lost.

We should not be playing the game Moscow Mitch started with his lies when he stole the Garland seat.

Now we look like hypocrites too.

The Constitution is clear.

We were in the right on Garland and should not change our positions on the fucking law just because the GOP did.

The focus of our talking points in this fight should be that the Republicans will lie, cheat, and steal to win at all costs to protect the rich, their tax cuts, and special laws that let them get away with things regular folks can't.

You don't let the GOP break the law and then a couple years later say yeah that's the right thing to do.

This is why many people see no difference between the two parties.

We either need to fight as dirty as the GOP or we need to do what's right.

I don't think our party collectively has the horrible ethics required to fight like them so we need to "go high" like Michelle Obama says.

[SlogginThroughIt]

1. Well that's nice

meanwhile women will lose agency over their own bodies and other terrible decisions that will potentially be the downfall of our democracy. But we have to play by the rules because they never do.

[TeamPooka]

3. 1. How are we going to stop them? 2. How should we cheat to win, please elaborate?

[Bev54]

6. The fight is real and you don't bring a knife to a gun fight

the republicans count on the dems not to go on the offensive, they need to do this and nothing they are doing is "cheating". It is all legal, they are just norms that everyone previously respected but the repubs have not been respecting for years. This is important for the future of the country.

[qazplm135]

7. We stop playing by unwritten rules

and start playing to win.

We add seats to the court. We get rid of the filibuster. Neither are "cheating."

[SlogginThroughIt]

8. I don't know

Impeachments might help clog the senate timetable.

Where did I say cheat to win?

[beachbumbob]

16. when rules are invovled, no republican today will abide. There will be a 6-3 supreme court

for a generation and we better get used to it.

[lagomorph777]

2. So...AFTER Turd loses in a landslide, and the Senate is flipped blue,

it's perfectly OK for the lame cucks to change SCROTUS for a generation?

Wrong.

[frazzled]

12. You said it

This is too critical to acquiesce to their temporary power: the effects of this could last for 40 to 50 years, not just a single term.

It is NOT okay for them to make the argument that we have to listen to "the people." We might that remind them that "the people" elected Hillary Clinton, by an excess of 3 million votes. It was the Electoral College, not the people, that was able to declare Donald Trump president.

Post-election, when G_d willing (and evil forces rendered toothless), we take back the Senate and the presidency, they can not be allowed to usurp the will of the people.

I'm usually one to say "we don't want to be like them." But we're not being like them: what they did was nearly 10 months before an election; we are in the midst of an election right now, and votes are being cast in some states as we speak.

[Mike 03]

4. Maybe it's just the gloomy mood I'm in, but I'm beginning to believe that "go high" is a

euphemism for "sit down, shut up and allow us to turn the United States fascist."

[Timewas]

9. Fighting a war

And acting like it is a pillow fight..They made the rules we need to use them against them

[TeamPooka]

19. and we can't let them change the rules and just go along with it. we'll never catch up or win that

way

[Timewas]

23. Unless

Unless you fight dirty like they do you will lose, the proof is in the facts the last 20 years or so, we Got Obama and they stopped him cold.. Being a "nice" guy doesn't work against these people.

(on edit) I was told by someone who knows how it really is that if I found myself in a "fair" fight I was doing it wrong if you are not in it to win it stay home.

[TeamPooka]

43. So we have to become them, lie cheat steal?

Win at all costs, no matter what damage we do to the Constitution and our nation along the way, just like them, right?
What do we win then?

[Timewas]

47. Sorry

That is not what I meant at all I mean we have to fight back and being mister nice guy isn't gonna make it, nothing to do with breaking laws or undercutting the constitution but fight fire with fire.. regardless of the biblical "turn the other cheek" My cheeks are chaffed and I am out of lotion.

[Moostache]

5. If you want to advocate for consistency, then you want secession as badly as I do...

The GOP is NOT a governing party or even a political party engaged in operating the United States of America. They are a criminal cabal of rapists (Trump), murderers (Trump) and back-biting snakes (McConnell and the rest of the Senators who voted to acquit without bothering to actually see evidence and hear from witnesses in Impeachment).

This idea that we can "go high" and still survive is a nonsensical sound bite from a non-politician who did not want to sound overly partisan at the time. It was 'grandma always said' homespun advice and it SOUNDS great, but in reality, it does nothing.

Jesus' teachings (and Buddha and Gandhi and many others) preach the value of 'turning the other cheek' and 'non-violent protest' as a means to show the world what an oppressor is and to build the pressure on them to change their ways...well, the modern GOP is ACTIVELY showing the world how little regard they have for law, morals, precedent and the well-being of their constituents. The time and benefits of non-violent resistance and rapidly dwindling and the time for more extreme non-cooperation is drawing short as well.

When they go low, we should club them in the back of the head and beat the unconscious corpse into a bloody pap...

[brooklynite]

33. What do you want to secede from what?

Blue States from Red States?

Does that mean that Massachusetts and Maryland (with Republican Governors) are “us” and States like Kansas and Montana (with Democratic Governors) are “them”?

[eShirl]

10. they cheated; we want what was rightfully ours

[hamsterjill]

24. Bingo!!!!

+1000

[TeamPooka]

46. OK how do We get it without lying cheating and stealing and becoming them?

[budkin]

11. Nah, Eff all that noise.

This is not the time for playing nice. That time is over.

[Demsrule86]

13. So if the GOP steals our nominee we just accept it but give them judges?

No...not acceptable. If we had the Senate, I would tell Fat Donnie to fuck off.

[MoonRiver]

15. This

[TeamPooka]

20. I think you are describing what has already happened.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

36. "If we had the senate," ... then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

But we don't, so RBG's bench can be grabbed by Trump/McConnell.

[Under The Radar]

14. Dems have always played by the rules and Republicans have always cheated

Because of our high road Congress can’t effectively subpoena republicans or documents from republicans, not even for impeachment hearings! Watch how the tables turn on Republican Senate Subpoenas.
Because of or high road the Supreme Court is now a legal enforcement arm of the Republican Party, with a 6-3 majority.
They are hypocrites and we have shown Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell tapes flip flop lying for their cases since the Contract with America and Clinton impeachment and here they are today doing the same thing.
We are losing ground. Republicans have always cheated, now they own the referees. We can no longer fight nuclear with muskets

[Yavin4]

17. The GOP counts on thinking like this to get away with their bullshit.

If you don't punish them for breaking norms and going back on their word, then they will never stop doing it. Never. They will do more and worse.

[TeamPooka]

21. How do we punish them without becoming them?

[Yavin4]

27. By using our power to protect people and improve their lives.

And not worry about violating norms. I say give DC and PR state hood. Doing that gives us the power to address Climate Change.

If doing that pisses off Republicans, so be it.

[TeamPooka]

38. OK, how to we give DC and PR statehood without the GOP stopping it? Please be specific

[Yavin4]

41. We take control of both houses and the presidency

And simply pass a bill to make it happen.

[former9thward]

48. PR has never asked to be a state.

Referendums on the subjects have either rejected statehood or had no clear majority, The last one, in 2017, had a 21% turnout due to a boycott.

[ibegurpard]

18. JFC...

Republicans had the majority with the Garland nomination. So they did what they wanted. Their excuses were utter shit as we knew then and can obviously see now but they still hold the majority. The solution in 2016 and 2018 was to vote them out. We failed.
Democrats can pull every trick they can think of but ultimately it comes down to whether a few Republicans will abide by their word from 2016... which is highly unlikely.

[TeamPooka]

22. This is on us for losing in 2016. we can't lose this year. Or ever again.

[Doremus]

25. Isn't that special.

If Obama hadn't "taken the high road" when he was kicked in the teeth re Merrick Garland, we wouldn't be in this fucking mess.

[frazzled]

30. What, exactly, do you think he should have done?

Scenario: the Senate is the body that discusses and then votes on a president’s nomination. The Republicans hold the Senate majority, and they have voted to abolish the filibuster for Supreme Court nominations. The need only a majority to confirm. They refuse to take up the nomination. Any nomination.

The way I see it, he could keep on nominating different people, and having them not get a hearing time and again, just to run out the clock. But the Senate was not expected to change hands.

What was your plan for him? Kick and scream, maybe? That wouldn’t have changed a thing. Actually, it didn’t.

We will kick and scream now. But it’s not likely to change a thing either. We’ll just have to go nuclear next January.

[Doremus]

32. Not give up.

The "high road" did not serve him --or us-- well re Merrick Garland. There were any number of things he could have done. Of course, they all required him to put away his affable, genteel persona and become single-mindedly fierce as he fought for his rightful obligation. Any of his many options was better than what he did do: give up.

[frazzled]

35. I don't think you've given a concrete suggestion

You’re saying he should have gotten mad and fought. But you haven’t said exactly how that would help, given the situation I described. Exactly what would acting fierce have done? You think it would have made the Republicans cower and submit? That’s tough guy thinking. I don’t think it ever got anyone anywhere.

But good luck with that.

[Yavin4]

45. What's your plan? Just take it?

Just roll over and show our bellies to the Republcans?

[frazzled]

50. We have to use our voices and opposition ...

And the Democratic senators have to make threats. But I’m not naive ... I think they will forge ahead in the lame duck session and do whatever damage they can, while they can.

So when we take the Senate, G-d willing, the Senate needs to make good on those threats: we must end the filibuster, so they can no longer block the Democratic agenda; and yes, we need to pass a statute to expand the Supreme Court membership. And we can do that if the filibuster is gone. It’s extreme, but necessary.

This is all we can do within the law. Bullying them and yelling alone won’t work: they are impervious to rational arguments.

[hamsterjill]

26. No. We dig in our heels and use every thing possible to stall.

This is why Democrat’s lose. We’ve got to fight them like they fight us. We have no choice or it’s always going to be them winning.

[Crunchy Frog]

28. How about Democrats FIGHT this like a fucking cornered wolverine?

[d_b]

29. 11/10 satire

[Baclava]

31. There is no fight, McConnell is moving forward with the vote, if he has them

[mcar]

34. I feel like I'm watching tennis on this site, sometimes

Boom - "Democrats are weak!!11 Why aren't they fighting everything and anything???"

Boom - "Democrats shouldn't play Republican games. Let's just let them appoint a 40-something RW lunatic to the court for the next 50 years because norms or something."

[PlanetBev]

37. Yes, let's play nice, as usual

Yeah, just like we’ve been doing for the last 40 years. The Republicans stopped playing by the rules years ago and look where it’s got us.

When they bring a gun to a fight, we should bring a grenade launcher.

Be noble? I call bullshit.

[TeamPooka]

39. If your solution is to lie, cheat and steal like republicans show me how we do that and win.

[rufus dog]

40. FFS almost 40 replies yet this thing hasn't been hidden.

I keep taking hides for calling out Dems, yet this remains? A position that clearly isn't being followed by Dem leadership yet it hasn't been shutdown?

TeamPooka, so let's follow your logic, take the high road. Tell me what is the penalty?

What will stop them from doing this again?

[kcr]

42. Please list the ways our side is planning to "cheat"

thx

[mac56]

44. They go low, we go high.

We go high, they win elections.

[ColoradoBlue]

49. We would not be lying, cheating, or stealing

The solutions to this are all legal, ethical and Constitutional. Let's take a look at what has been suggested by various people.

Adding justices to the Supreme Court - There is nothing in the Constitution about the number of justices the Supreme Court is allowed to have. It has had as few as five and as many as 10. Adding two more justices (let's say) simply restores balance and order and it is not illegal. Some worry this will set a precedent. Fine. The more justices there are, the less weight each one's decision carries so it's not such a political bombshell when one dies or steps down.

Making Puerto Rico and DC states - Also completely legal. PR should have been a state long ago, quite frankly.

Impeach Barr - Perhaps something that would be perceived as the most politically motivated but it isn't as though Barr hasn't committed impeachable offenses because he clearly has. It would be different if the Dems were manufacturing crimes and misdemeanors but they're not.

In addition, as AOC recently mentioned, there are numerous procedural tools at our disposal to buy time.

ALL of this is Constitutional and legal. Absolutely no cheating, lying, or stealing.

On a recent Pod Save America, the Reverend Greg Lewis - a Black minister who leads a movement called Souls to the Polls - said that it bothers him that Democrats are always so nice. He said (and I'm paraphrasing) that he believes in turning the other cheek but that when someone hits you below the belt, you should at least be able to defend yourself with an open palm. He said that we MUST fight back. We don't have to be unethical or immoral about it but we MUST fight back. People's lives and liberties literally depend on our willingness to get tough.