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PCIntern

(25,344 posts)
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 08:14 AM Sep 2020

Two female Trump voters in a row yesterday!

Last edited Sun Sep 13, 2020, 10:33 AM - Edit history (1)

I probably have a fair number of Trump voters in my practice, but most know better than to discuss politics with me if they’re right wing. I’m not exactly sure why, because I don’t telegraph too much to people, but this fortunately has been the case for many years.

But yesterday, my first patient of the day, a 45-year-old female of the Caucasian persuasion, a former model, very gentle and fragile, with a very bad series of marital histories, asked me for whom I was voting if I would not mind telling her. So I said quite explicitly that since Trump was destroying the country at every level and every fiber of his being, I was going to vote for Joe Biden. She nodded, and said that she did not particularly like Biden and she was going to vote for Trump AGAIN (emphasis mine). And then she quickly added, I hope I didn’t upset you. My reply to her was it’s not so much that I’m upset, but somewhat surprised that a woman who has been through what she’d been through and are so emotionally sensitive to other people’s’ needs would vote for him for President of the United States. Amazingly, she did not contradict me or assert anything other than with a nod. Of course I just let it go at that point since I didn’t bring it up in the first place.

Second patient, also Caucasian but 85 years old, quite with it, quite the well-read individual, Jewish, who started her life in a row home in West Philadelphia and became rather well to do from her marriage to a prominent physician, proceeded to tell me all the wonderful things that Trump had done for the country. Being that I Can be quite chameleon like, I hastened to add “enthusiastically” and for Israel too of course! She nodded her head and I commenced my dental work upon her.

Objectively, both of these women are attractive, lovely to talk to in all other respects, well educated, well comported, otherwise seemingly humanistic and other-oriented, and yet…

I have known both of them for a total of 72 years, and quite frankly had no idea at all whatsoever that they held these political views. It just goes to show you that there is a hidden mess of these voters out there even where you don’t expect it, and I will say one thing about both of them which is consistent with my theory of female Trump voters and that is that they were both abused in various ways during their marriages. For that you’re going to have to take my word but They were. It is very common for me to see this Connection, and although from a scientific standpoint it is certainly not proven, I have very strong feelings that identification with the aggressor is a very big part of his Fanbase. On this level, I see this is two personal tragedies, and in a crazy way,a loss for me personally.

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Two female Trump voters in a row yesterday! (Original Post) PCIntern Sep 2020 OP
A loss for all of us. NT enough Sep 2020 #1
I had 3 Trump clients in a row yesterday which wasn't a surprise because grantcart Sep 2020 #2
The LaRouchies were the same way: polite, professional, well-educated and purveyors ... marble falls Sep 2020 #21
in my experience with people like these women, there is deep rooted racism they hide even better beachbumbob Sep 2020 #3
My sentiment exactly! - n/t mazzarro Sep 2020 #33
The only time I have been surprise is when I didn't account for racism in people's beachbumbob Sep 2020 #39
I don't get it. Jrsygrl96 Sep 2020 #4
I'm still recovering Laha Sep 2020 #14
How did almost marrying a cruel person totally break you? PTWB Sep 2020 #43
You dont see how thats possible? In many ways? oldsoftie Sep 2020 #55
Is she trying to say that not marrying the cruel person broke her? PTWB Sep 2020 #58
I would think the interaction with that person treestar Sep 2020 #60
Interesting anecdotes. I always find these stories very interesting since they give us a smirkymonkey Sep 2020 #5
And they undoubtedly are avid Fox News watchers PatSeg Sep 2020 #22
You can count on that - and therein lies the problem!!!!!!!!!!!! ElementaryPenguin Sep 2020 #54
And Fox News was designed to be addictive PatSeg Sep 2020 #62
I think it's called resolution of dissonance. Walleye Sep 2020 #6
That is an interesting nugget. Provides another glimpse of something for which one answer alone dameatball Sep 2020 #12
Out of curiosity, what were the wonderful things the second woman sinkingfeeling Sep 2020 #7
Good question... PCIntern Sep 2020 #8
I have some relatives who are Trump supporters. Lonestarblue Sep 2020 #17
Yes indeed - n/t mazzarro Sep 2020 #40
First things first - Vote Joinfortmill Sep 2020 #41
On occasion you will get one that is quite charitable treestar Sep 2020 #59
this explains their attitude sheilahi Sep 2020 #9
'Identification with the aggressor" dawg day Sep 2020 #10
What a good answer and disappointing response from her lostnfound Sep 2020 #15
Well, her response was very telling PatSeg Sep 2020 #27
I think thats why Squidly Sep 2020 #78
Exactly PatSeg Sep 2020 #79
OMG! Is she damaged. Joinfortmill Sep 2020 #36
So it's just a game to her. She isn't being harmed personally by Trump. yardwork Sep 2020 #49
Aha! That could explain how many finally see the light when they are personally harmed. tanyev Sep 2020 #66
This is an odd connection, but now you've started me thinking ... FakeNoose Sep 2020 #11
I'm afraid you hit good point. What sort of political Stockholm Syndrome is going on with ... marble falls Sep 2020 #19
If you have chosen a partner who belittles and abuses you luvtheGWN Sep 2020 #65
What I find sad is that the bullies are never called out FakeNoose Sep 2020 #72
a broken nation. rudderless. bereft of education. hateful. spanone Sep 2020 #13
I am in agreement with you. BlueDawn Sep 2020 #16
Interesting. My brother and I who are liberal are the two who will own up to and smirkymonkey Sep 2020 #67
I wonder, too.... BlueDawn Sep 2020 #81
The "undecided" numbers were really bothering me because, more often than not ... marble falls Sep 2020 #18
Could be BUT..... BigOleDummy Sep 2020 #24
I hope not. Joinfortmill Sep 2020 #29
This message was self-deleted by its author Joinfortmill Sep 2020 #32
I agree Joinfortmill Sep 2020 #35
I started traveling on business again just over a month ago and am blow away Snake Plissken Sep 2020 #20
Excuse me. Joinfortmill Sep 2020 #28
I couldn't care less who's fault it is, I'm just telling you exactly what I see Snake Plissken Sep 2020 #52
I just don't understand the elderly supporting trump mnmoderatedem Sep 2020 #23
Elderly and comfortably well off couldn't care less about SS. nt eppur_se_muova Sep 2020 #47
I don't get that either, unless they don't know about it. Bluepinky Sep 2020 #48
They honestly don't believe their payments will ever be affected. Mariana Sep 2020 #64
I take nothing for granted, there's just too many cult members. 634-5789 Sep 2020 #25
Thank you for sharing Joinfortmill Sep 2020 #26
Damn! I didn't interpret that correctly. aka-chmeee Sep 2020 #30
LOL PCIntern Sep 2020 #51
Interesting post, a couple of thoughts here. Bluepinky Sep 2020 #31
I doubt they got to this level of support without heavy doses of rightwing media LymphocyteLover Sep 2020 #34
the common features I've seen of female Trump supporters are LymphocyteLover Sep 2020 #37
Interesting about spousal abuse. ananda Sep 2020 #38
I think I'd always say I'm voting for whoever Buns_of_Fire Sep 2020 #42
"she did not particularly like Biden" Aussie105 Sep 2020 #44
All I see from this OP Proud liberal 80 Sep 2020 #45
PCIntern, you certainly know the right things to say to your patients! Personally I don't Illumination Sep 2020 #46
Hi. I certainly am not saying PCIntern Sep 2020 #50
Yet we still have those who think "ALL Trump voters are racists" oldsoftie Sep 2020 #53
Well, of course the patient feared upsetting you! drbtg1 Sep 2020 #56
I'll never understand how people can consistently vote against their own self-interest. Texin Sep 2020 #57
They aren't voting against their own self-interest. Mariana Sep 2020 #68
i think the link is fear. ihas2stinkyfeet Sep 2020 #61
Interesting. I'm starting to think that this is to inflict pain Kind of Blue Sep 2020 #63
My guess is that both women married it and haven't shaken it off Warpy Sep 2020 #69
I don't know about 'shaking it off', but I rather suspect they married authoritarians Texin Sep 2020 #73
I don't know about 'shaking it off', but I rather suspect they married authoritarians Texin Sep 2020 #74
Underlying anger issues iamateacher Sep 2020 #70
After much thought musclecar6 Sep 2020 #71
I hope you were not TOO vigorous ... JustABozoOnThisBus Sep 2020 #75
Again, it is base personality at play. Some folks are attracted to authoritarian relationships. Midnight Writer Sep 2020 #76
People like these women who insist on believing what they want to FM123 Sep 2020 #77
Narcissism is inculcated in white women. raging moderate Sep 2020 #80

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
2. I had 3 Trump clients in a row yesterday which wasn't a surprise because
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 08:26 AM
Sep 2020

I was working an area represented by Gower, one of the biggest Trump idiots in Congress.

The unusual thing about them is that they were all both nice and normal. I wanted to ask them how they could support such a terrible person.

marble falls

(56,358 posts)
21. The LaRouchies were the same way: polite, professional, well-educated and purveyors ...
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:28 AM
Sep 2020

Q level nonsense. And oh yeah, white.

 

beachbumbob

(9,263 posts)
39. The only time I have been surprise is when I didn't account for racism in people's
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:50 AM
Sep 2020

judgement as they hide it very well.

Jrsygrl96

(109 posts)
4. I don't get it.
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 08:30 AM
Sep 2020

40 years ago almost married a cruel, narcissistic sociopath. I was so broken I never totally put myself back together again. After that experience though, I can spot those kind of men from a mile away. Trump is exactly that!!!! Why would those women like him???? SMH.

Laha

(407 posts)
14. I'm still recovering
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 08:56 AM
Sep 2020

Sometimes I'm angry beyond all belief. Sometimes the pain of the loss is almost unbearable.

But like you I don't get it. I see the patterns of abuse now. I don't know why anyone would willingly subject themselves to that after they had experienced it.

 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
58. Is she trying to say that not marrying the cruel person broke her?
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 10:48 AM
Sep 2020

It is just worded in a way that leaves it open to much interpretation.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
60. I would think the interaction with that person
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 10:54 AM
Sep 2020

along the way before realizing it was best not to marry them would be what broke her.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
5. Interesting anecdotes. I always find these stories very interesting since they give us a
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 08:30 AM
Sep 2020

glimpse into the mindset of individuals who we would not normally think of as a typical Trump voter, yet there you have it. I still can't understand what motivates people like this, except for possibly what you mentioned about identification with the abusive male aggressor. Perhaps they see that as strength or power, or something they subconsciouly wish they posessed themselves.

People like me on the other hand, who grew up with an abusive step-mother (who has very many Trump-like qualities) see that kind of behavior as nothing more than weakness, cowardice and cruelty. We despise people who act that way and avoid them at all cost.

Not only do we need a much better educational system in this country, but I think we need easier and less expensive access to psychotherapy for people at all levels. There are too many damaged people out there who are playing out their psycho-dramas at everyone else's expense.

PatSeg

(46,794 posts)
22. And they undoubtedly are avid Fox News watchers
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:29 AM
Sep 2020

They may have the channel on all day like my sister does and rarely hear a different point of view.

PatSeg

(46,794 posts)
62. And Fox News was designed to be addictive
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 11:01 AM
Sep 2020

and inflammatory. Most people when hearing the same point of view over and over again will end up believing it. We only see occasional clips that are often ridiculous and outrageous, but regular Fox viewers don't see the outrageous because it is mixed in with some relatively ordinary news and commentary.

Meanwhile, I think people have become addicted to outrage, even some on the left, and as such they tend to seek it out online or on television. It is hard to remain reasonable in such a divisive environment. People who used to watch soap operas or talk shows like Jerry Springer, now watch Fox News and proudly believe they are informed, as well as entertained.

Sadly, there are those who are making big money off the mindless addictions of the gullible and they take no responsibility for the consequences that follow. In the end, it almost always is about greed in some form or another.

Walleye

(30,704 posts)
6. I think it's called resolution of dissonance.
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 08:31 AM
Sep 2020

Last edited Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:12 AM - Edit history (1)

The smaller the reward a person gets for believing a lie, the harder they have to work convince themselves that it’s actually true.

dameatball

(7,380 posts)
12. That is an interesting nugget. Provides another glimpse of something for which one answer alone
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 08:55 AM
Sep 2020

is likely insufficient.

sinkingfeeling

(51,276 posts)
7. Out of curiosity, what were the wonderful things the second woman
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 08:36 AM
Sep 2020

named as being done by MF45 for the country?

Lonestarblue

(9,878 posts)
17. I have some relatives who are Trump supporters.
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:13 AM
Sep 2020

We don’t discuss politics much these days, but I know some of their attitudes from years past. Racism is certainly a big factor, although all of them would say that they are not racist and have nothing against black and brown people. Their behavior, though, says they do not want such people in their lives. In most small towns, white and minority communities go their separate ways—separate churches, different restaurants, separate funeral homes, etc.

Schools of course are integrated, but white children are generally not allowed to socialize with minorities outside of school. My relatives would not only be horrified if one of their children wanted to date a minority, they would forbid it—even for casual friendship. Trump supporters like his racism and see him “putting black people back in their place”—meaning separate and no part of their majority white experience.

The second factor is religion. Conservatives have been convinced that the US is going to hell because fewer and fewer young people (and older ones, too) see religion as an important part of their lives. Their ministers preach this from the pulpit every Sunday. Trump promises religious freedom, which to them means no abortion for any reason anywhere in the country, the right not to recognize same-sex marriages and the legal right to discriminate against LGBTQ any way they want, and the imposition of Biblical law by the government to regulate what they see as immoral behavior. The last point is especially important to white evangelicals because they believe that their version of Christianity should be declared as the official religion of the US, along with declaring that only English may be spoken or used for documents in this country. They see Trump’s right-wing Supreme Court appointments as paramount for achieving their goals, and they do not consider anything he is doing to make the country weaker internationally as important at all. They have bought into his America First belief that the US is able to go it alone in the world and is strong enough to not need anyone else.

I suspect a lot of Trump supporters have similar beliefs.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
59. On occasion you will get one that is quite charitable
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 10:52 AM
Sep 2020

I don't know if they do it to prove something or out of true charity. They hide behind that to say that they don't dislike poor people, they just don't think the government should be the way they are taken care of. But really it's do they can decide who among the poor "deserve" to be taken care of.

They can also be kind to people of color - same thing - they want to be the "superior" who so kindly helps the less fortunate. Like the old fashioned "noblesse oblige" they want to be of a higher class. I have a relative like this, did very well, was getting cancer treatment (he's rich and he's OK now) met an undocumented Mexican who also had cancer and was trying to help him get status to stay in the US for treatment as US expense! But he would never care about such people generally, just one guy he knew personally and liked.

People can be very complex. This relative is a Trumper, of course, and always Republican. Most of the people in my family who are older are solidly Republican since Roe v. Wade. They are Catholic and that is their only issue.

dawg day

(7,947 posts)
10. 'Identification with the aggressor"
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 08:51 AM
Sep 2020

It's so often some twisted, distorted, dark motivation, whether it's that Trump gives permission to surface hidden racism and hatred, or that he stokes their resentment of "the elite", or that he makes them feel unworthy, or that his abusiveness feels like what they're used to from their fathers, or...

It's almost never straightforward, and they can never really explain it. But it always connects to his pleasure in being angry and harmful somehow.

They get something out of that. But their approval of Trump-- even they sort of realize it-- is like the presenting symptom of some disease, whether it's racism or previous trauma or a deep sense of inferiority.

I have an acquaintance very like your first patient-- beautiful, well-traveled, with a marital history I suspect included abuse- and I tried not to argue with her. I just said that I'm looking forward to a time when we won't be so consumed with this one man's personality, that we can focus again on our children and grandchildren, and not worry about what strange scandal or dispute is going to happen next. I said it would be like waking up after a night of thunderstorms and see the peaceful dawn.

She was struck by this for a moment-- I could see that there was some longing for peace-- but then she shook her head and laughed harshly and said, "Admit it. You'd miss the excitement."

Yeah, right, the excitement of anticipating whether we'll have 300,000 or 400,000 deaths before New Years.

PatSeg

(46,794 posts)
27. Well, her response was very telling
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:34 AM
Sep 2020

A lot of these Trump supporters are addicted to the excitement and love the roller coaster ride. Apparently they want and crave mindless conflict. They are living in a real world tabloid newspaper.

PatSeg

(46,794 posts)
79. Exactly
Mon Sep 14, 2020, 09:50 AM
Sep 2020

These are the same people who used to watch shows like Jerry Springer and Sally Jessy Raphael religiously and then graduated to reality TV and Fox News. I suppose it was inevitable that they would eventually get off the couch and take their faux drama into the real world. I remember one woman telling me, "I stay informed about these things" (politics) and I knew then that she watched Fox News and THOUGHT she was informed.

yardwork

(61,415 posts)
49. So it's just a game to her. She isn't being harmed personally by Trump.
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 10:27 AM
Sep 2020

She likes the excitement, like watching a scary movie or visiting an amusement park.

tanyev

(42,358 posts)
66. Aha! That could explain how many finally see the light when they are personally harmed.
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 11:14 AM
Sep 2020

Until that happens, they’re just spectators of an entertaining reality show. Hmmmm.

FakeNoose

(32,340 posts)
11. This is an odd connection, but now you've started me thinking ...
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 08:51 AM
Sep 2020

I'm a woman in my late 60s, and I suppose over the years I've known some women who were abused or somehow mistreated by the men in their lives. It's sad that our culture condones (or ignores) this problem, but how does it affect those women who were abused? Does it cause them to choose another man who will also abuse or disrespect them? Because that is certainly what Chump is doing to the women of America. And yet some of them are OK with it, and some even plan to vote for him again.

I've been baffled as to why this is happening, but you might be onto something. Maybe it's a collective willful blindness, or a refusal to see the truth.



marble falls

(56,358 posts)
19. I'm afraid you hit good point. What sort of political Stockholm Syndrome is going on with ...
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:23 AM
Sep 2020

a good portion of the basket of deplorables?

luvtheGWN

(1,336 posts)
65. If you have chosen a partner who belittles and abuses you
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 11:13 AM
Sep 2020

(either physically or emotionally and probably both) you tend to start thinking "I'm not worthy of love or respect". If there is no one else in your life who recognizes what you're going through and can then convince you that you are indeed worthy, then it's likely you'll go from relationship to relationship with another abuser. In short, you're a sitting duck.

I sometimes think back to my school days when a supposed girlfriend said something unkind and made me feel bad. My mother would always tell me that the girlfriend was the one who should feel bad and ashamed that she was unkind.

Not everyone grows up with that sort of family support, unfortunately.

FakeNoose

(32,340 posts)
72. What I find sad is that the bullies are never called out
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 02:04 PM
Sep 2020

... just like Chump, they always get away with their bullying. So of course they're going to bully the next person, and the next one. It makes me sick to think that most of the victims are women and/or children.

But to relate it to our current national nightmare, Chump was actually raised by his parents to BE this way! The mystery to me is, why are so-called normal people OK with this? Why are women OK with it? It's time for an intervention, and he belongs in a straight-jacket.



BlueDawn

(892 posts)
16. I am in agreement with you.
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:08 AM
Sep 2020

My mother and one of my sisters will be voting for Trump again, but my younger sister and I despise Trump and will vote for Biden.

We have had many conversations about this, as we all grew up with a man who was exactly like Trump, albeit without the wealth. While my youngest sister and I feel great compassion for abused people, my mother and my other sister identify more with the abuser, even vehemently defending his horrendous, abusive behavior throughout the years. They are far more black-and-white, even legalistic, in their thinking. They both are evangelical Christians. They think that I and my other sister are "socialists."

I think you make an astute observation. I have often thought that it would be informative to know how many die-hard Trump followers grew up with an authoritarian, abusive parent. of course, they would probably deny that, even if it were true, just as my mother and sister deny their respective husband/father's sadistic abuse.

I do believe that they both are terrified to confront the truth because they would have to deal with their long-buried pain. I feel empathy for them, but I just cannot understand how in the world they can look at Trump and not see the vile, disgusting creature that I and my other sister see.

Oh, I think it is important to add that I and my youngest sister sought counseling and worked through most of our pain and anger. My mother and other sister have said they do not need counseling because they are not "crazy."

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
67. Interesting. My brother and I who are liberal are the two who will own up to and
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 11:17 AM
Sep 2020

talk about my mother's abuse. I have worked things out in therapy. I don't know about my brother.

Our other brother and sister who say they don't remember it and/or deny it are the two right wingers and Trumpers in the family. Maybe there is something to that.

BlueDawn

(892 posts)
81. I wonder, too....
Tue Sep 22, 2020, 01:15 PM
Sep 2020

....if there is something to it, smirkymonkey.

I realize that not every Trump supporter fits within that category. I was generalizing, of course, when I made my observation.

Hmmm.....I just find it interesting.

marble falls

(56,358 posts)
18. The "undecided" numbers were really bothering me because, more often than not ...
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:20 AM
Sep 2020

more of the undecided go to the incumbent. But that undecided number has shrunk and Biden's lead has become more solid.

But it won't be in the bag until Nov 3.

Personally, I think you may have been able to put enough of a question into your first patient's mind to make her go Biden when she hits the booth.

BigOleDummy

(2,260 posts)
24. Could be BUT.....
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:31 AM
Sep 2020

.... I can't help but think (and more so almost everyday) that the constant refrain we hear from the GangOfPutin and our chump in chief about "The Silent Majority" and "Hidden Trump supporters" is just a tacit nod of reassurance to the rwnj's and big money donors that yes indeed, the fix is already in place.

Response to marble falls (Reply #18)

Snake Plissken

(4,103 posts)
20. I started traveling on business again just over a month ago and am blow away
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:26 AM
Sep 2020

at how much support I am finding for Trump, even among intelligent people.

Trump is successfully keeping the narrative about rioting, lawlessness in the minds of voters. I have never met a single person who has witnessed any rioting but it's all they see on the news, and somehow everyone but Trump is to blame for it.

Democrats need to do a better job shifting the narrative to how much of a disaster Trump has been for the economy and his disastrous handling of the COVID-19 is a large part of that, or this can end up being a repeat of 2016.

Joe Biden needs to start camping out in the swing states to get his message out, or the only message they will have is Trump's

Joinfortmill

(14,237 posts)
28. Excuse me.
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:37 AM
Sep 2020

They drink the cool-aid and it's the Dem's fault. I doubt that is why they are voting for Traitor. It's the reason they're giving you.

Snake Plissken

(4,103 posts)
52. I couldn't care less who's fault it is, I'm just telling you exactly what I see
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 10:40 AM
Sep 2020

And quite frankly there is only one issue I care about this election is removing Trump from office, but what I'm seeing is quite a bit of support for Trump in the Midwest, and it's almost exclusively driven by what people are exposed to in the media.

If Trump can get away with posting a two more months of his fake unemployment numbers and it continues to go unchallenged, from what I see this could end up like 2016. These are not exclusively White men I'm referring to either, not even close. These are people who are worried about the economy and foolishly believe Trump will handle it better than Biden because it's the only message they are hearing.

mnmoderatedem

(3,706 posts)
23. I just don't understand the elderly supporting trump
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:30 AM
Sep 2020

he has all but declared he will end social security, and end it quickly.

Bluepinky

(2,260 posts)
48. I don't get that either, unless they don't know about it.
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 10:22 AM
Sep 2020

Biden needs to keep hammering this issue, needs to state that Trump has already taken steps to dismantle SS and Medicare will be next! They might not be aware of it, Fox certainly won’t talk about it.

Mariana

(14,849 posts)
64. They honestly don't believe their payments will ever be affected.
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 11:08 AM
Sep 2020

They expect if anyone's benefits get cut off, it will only be the younger people, not current recipients - and they think that's just dandy.

634-5789

(4,175 posts)
25. I take nothing for granted, there's just too many cult members.
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:31 AM
Sep 2020

Especially ...how can these 2 women square how the king of misogyny plays in their ideals?

aka-chmeee

(1,129 posts)
30. Damn! I didn't interpret that correctly.
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:39 AM
Sep 2020

I was expecting an account of two trump supporters having a fight.

Bluepinky

(2,260 posts)
31. Interesting post, a couple of thoughts here.
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:39 AM
Sep 2020

My sister, who was in a bad marriage for many years, is also a Trump voter. Her husband was a very tall, large man, with a loud voice, who was never shy about stating his opinions. My sister was somewhat emotionally abused by him over the years. What initially attracted her to him was his height/size and bravado. I think he made her feel safe and protected, that he could take care of himself and also her. It would be interesting to see what type of men these women choose to be with. Perhaps they gravitate toward men who they see as protectors, who make them feel safe.

Two women I work with are Trump supporters due to the fear factor; they are both married (Caucasian) and appear to be strong and independent, but they’re fearful of terrorism, Marxism, etc. They see Democrats as weak. They believe that only Republicans and Trump know what’s going on and can protect them and our country. Of course, all of these women (my sister too) are avid Fox News watchers, so they have been brainwashed. Fox has exploited their fears and told them that only Republicans can protect them. All are college graduates as well and should know better.

Talk radio also has played a role in this brainwashing as well. My sister had a sales job for many years and would listen to talk radio in the car. She voted twice for Obama, but during Obama’s second term, she suddenly became much more extreme and turned Republican. I can’t talk politics with her at all now. It’s very sad, a real loss in my life.

On a positive note, all of these women take Covid seriously and wear masks, none of them are “Karen’s”.

LymphocyteLover

(5,601 posts)
34. I doubt they got to this level of support without heavy doses of rightwing media
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:43 AM
Sep 2020

and they probably got sucked into pro-Trump FB groups and so forth. It's a whole separate reality.

LymphocyteLover

(5,601 posts)
37. the common features I've seen of female Trump supporters are
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:48 AM
Sep 2020

1) get very upset about any sort of violence against police
2) love to share stories about black people doing bad things
3) think BLM is a terrorist group that wants to kill or get rid of police
4) know all the latest rightwing talking points

ananda

(28,782 posts)
38. Interesting about spousal abuse.
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:49 AM
Sep 2020

Is that a thing? Abused spouses tend to vote
for abusers like Trump? Stockholm syndrome
or something?

I had a friend like that actually. Her first husband
was abusive and difficult. She had a pretty bad time
of it with him. Yet she is so smart, caring and
and empathetic, it's unreal. But she voted for
Trump because Ben Carson said to and she liked
him. WTF, I know!

She also has a LOT of ego invested in everything
she does and everyone she interacts with, so it
was pretty inevitable that we were not going to
stay friends because I could see through her.

I felt bad about it because in every other way, she
is a lovely person and has really helped a lot of
people in so many way.

Oh well....

Buns_of_Fire

(17,119 posts)
42. I think I'd always say I'm voting for whoever
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:52 AM
Sep 2020

the person with the drill in his hand is voting for.

If the question ever came up. Which it never has.

Aussie105

(5,211 posts)
44. "she did not particularly like Biden"
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 09:59 AM
Sep 2020

and will vote for Trump AGAIN?

This is the attitude that worries me greatly.

Female relative of my wife said the same thing about Hillary, that she couldn't possibly vote for her. Definitely didn't like Trump, but her dislike of Hillary was on a totally different level.
(Whether she voted for Trump, or not vote at all, I still don't know.)

When questioned, she couldn't explain why she thought that way. She got very grumpy indeed, instead!
I assumed some of the negativity thrown Hillary's way somewhat clung to my sister in law.

Perhaps some people don't want to see the possibilities Biden presents? A hope created, but deflated, is a worse feeling than a hope not raised in the first place?

Or put more simply 'My life is shit, I can't see it getting any better, so I will vote to ensure the same shit continues!'

Proud liberal 80

(4,167 posts)
45. All I see from this OP
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 10:02 AM
Sep 2020

Was white privileged.....bottom line is that these ladies aren’t nice or good people, they don’t care what happens to others, as long as their privilege isn’t affected.

 

Illumination

(2,458 posts)
46. PCIntern, you certainly know the right things to say to your patients! Personally I don't
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 10:12 AM
Sep 2020

subscribe to the abuse theory. My dad beat my mom, brother & myself. Also suffered other abuse. However, I CAN understand what Trump is doing to America. He's been dismantling, destroying, dividing, weakening it, etc. (possibly for Putin). He isn't acting on behalf of the American people. It is very disturbing that he would have ANY female supporters! He has @ least 25 women who have accused him of sexual misconduct since the 1970s. There could be a much larger problem of mental illness than we knew in the US & growing...

PCIntern

(25,344 posts)
50. Hi. I certainly am not saying
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 10:37 AM
Sep 2020

That all people who are abused are Trump voters, But it is striking when it is the case. So much of life is counterintuitive, and you would think that people would avoid the situation rather than be attracted and then adhere to it, but it’s how people are. Very tragic.

oldsoftie

(12,410 posts)
53. Yet we still have those who think "ALL Trump voters are racists"
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 10:43 AM
Sep 2020

Because they're never AROUND any real trump voters.
Like this OP points out, "regular" people are out there who will actually vote for him.

But i do think he's LOST more of them over the past 4 yrs than he has gained. I dont know anyone who didnt vote for him in '16 who WILL vote for him this time. I do know a few who voted for him in '16 who say they are done with him now. Not from me asking, they just volunteer it. Dont know if they'll vote FOR Biden, but by not voting for trump its still a positive for Joe

drbtg1

(1,054 posts)
56. Well, of course the patient feared upsetting you!
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 10:46 AM
Sep 2020

she probably and suddenly realized she didn't want a root canal to show up on the tx plan! (I'm not saying you would do that since you're the progressive dentist and thus have ethics and morals. But the Republican dentist down the street, well.....)

Patients like that always surprise me. They seem to be the type of people who would also pick a fight with a waiter before getting their food and not expect any "secret sauce".

Anyways, hope you're doing ok with the practice. Where I'm at, the hygienist situation is one huge mess, so I hope you were able to avoid that.

Texin

(2,585 posts)
57. I'll never understand how people can consistently vote against their own self-interest.
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 10:48 AM
Sep 2020

It utterly makes no sense to me. It is akin to a kid sticking his or her hand on a hot burner and from that point forward, keep on sticking their hand back onto the burner to see if it resulted in the same burn. Incomprehensible.

Mariana

(14,849 posts)
68. They aren't voting against their own self-interest.
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 11:18 AM
Sep 2020

Their interests just aren't what you think they should be.

 

ihas2stinkyfeet

(1,400 posts)
61. i think the link is fear.
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 10:55 AM
Sep 2020

it is hard to be brave. me, i am as fearless as they come. but i only recently realized that this has lead me to be unable to abide cowards. it sets me off like nothing else.

i was married to a chickenshit for 30 yrs and it took me 6 yrs after it ended to realize that the thing i couldnt stand about his was his cowardice.
esp about standing up for others. me, first and foremost. his idea of bonding w his kids was to agree that mom was a bitch.

but he had a position of power in his job. we had 2 kids while he was in that job, and both times only took 1 wk vacation time to be w me. since they were my 4th and 5th kids, this sucked.
at the time, there was no family medical leave. i begged him to stand up and demand this as sick leave. not just for me, but for those lower on the totem pole.
there was a guy in his group whose career was dead ended when his wife had a tough pregnancy and a hard time after. if he had done it, it would have helped poor bob.
but no.

an abusive family, even if only verbally/psychologically can set you up for a lifetime of looking for protection from a bigger bully.
i am not sure how i escaped that. tho my folks were mostly very gentle ppl, i grew to fear my da. it started as fear for his health. he used to cough until he turned blue. but he also drank. a lot. tho my fear was tinged w pity, then disgust, it sent my in the other direction. not real surprising, as he was a great father before he got sick and started drinking.

but yeah. bravery is hard. i struggle w it sometimes for myself. but it is just knee jerk for me to stick up for others.
too bad that is so uncommon. we wouldnt be in this mess if it were the norm.

Kind of Blue

(8,709 posts)
63. Interesting. I'm starting to think that this is to inflict pain
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 11:06 AM
Sep 2020

in a comfortable atmosphere that they know cannot result in much if any blow-back.

This week, my husband talked about a colleague he liked very much. Co-worker has never hidden that she is a republican. The two are a year a part in age, share the same work ethic and sense of humor. This week, she put a 45 sticker on her car to make it clear to everyone. Then out of nowhere during a fun chitchat, she said to him, "I'm voting for 45 again." He tried to hide his disappointed in her and then she said with a smirk, "I hope that I didn't hurt your feelings." She enjoyed it.

Warpy

(110,902 posts)
69. My guess is that both women married it and haven't shaken it off
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 12:00 PM
Sep 2020

No, there is nothing you can do about a woman who slavishly follows a husband's politics. I know they're out there. I've worked with quite a few of them, and as you said, they were good people otherwise.The women had little interest in politics, and let hubby lead the way. I never wanted to meet their husbands, I suspect the same could not be said about them.

I guess some women are Eve's descendants. Others are Lilith's. I'm definitely a Lilith.

Texin

(2,585 posts)
73. I don't know about 'shaking it off', but I rather suspect they married authoritarians
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 02:10 PM
Sep 2020

and are used to being dictated to by males and valued only for their bodies; their bodies as a receptacle for male *pleasure*, for bearing the authoritarian's spawn, raising them, feeding the family, and for silently agreeing to the authoritarian's will. I inferred from the OP that these two women are older than middle age (in one instance, over 85, which places her in a generation growing up in the late Depression era, WWII and beyond. Women were raised to believe that their only value was in securing a marital partner and pleasing that partner no matter the consequences in which they found themselves. That is a mindset and history that's pretty difficult to change.

Texin

(2,585 posts)
74. I don't know about 'shaking it off', but I rather suspect they married authoritarians
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 02:12 PM
Sep 2020

and are used to being dictated to by males and valued only for their bodies; their bodies as a receptacle for male *pleasure*, for bearing the authoritarian's spawn, raising them, feeding the family, and for silently agreeing to the authoritarian's will. I inferred from the OP that these two women are older than middle age (in one instance, over 85, which places her in a generation growing up in the late Depression era, WWII and beyond. Women were raised to believe that their only value was in securing a marital partner and pleasing that partner no matter the consequences in which they found themselves. That is a mindset and history that's pretty difficult to change.

iamateacher

(1,088 posts)
70. Underlying anger issues
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 12:14 PM
Sep 2020

They like the way Trump 'owns" people. Often women are taught to not express their anger and Trump and Fox News does it for them.

musclecar6

(1,680 posts)
71. After much thought
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 12:44 PM
Sep 2020


To me, the majority of people who are going to vote for Trump after seeing on full display for the last 3 1/2 years all his terrible quality’s, biases, selfishness, wild insecure narcissism, and most of all his complete incompetence for the job, the voters fall into 2 categories. Deplorables and wallet lovers (theirs) who only care about themselves ( just like their idol Trump). Yes there is also another group who are just too stupid to realize they are being conned 24/7.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,283 posts)
75. I hope you were not TOO vigorous ...
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 02:21 PM
Sep 2020

... in checking the depth of their gum pocket thingies, whatever they're called.

Midnight Writer

(21,546 posts)
76. Again, it is base personality at play. Some folks are attracted to authoritarian relationships.
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 02:48 PM
Sep 2020

They choose domineering mates, worship an all controlling God, and vote for authoritarian leaders.

FM123

(10,050 posts)
77. People like these women who insist on believing what they want to
Sun Sep 13, 2020, 04:48 PM
Sep 2020

regardless of what information is out there are pretty much "unsavable" from trumpy. Even if you told them that all you had to do to keep from drowning was to stand up, they wouldn't.

raging moderate

(4,281 posts)
80. Narcissism is inculcated in white women.
Mon Sep 14, 2020, 10:12 AM
Sep 2020

Narcissism is inculcated in white females, and it starts in childhood. Angels are shown as blue-eyed blondes, and so are princesses. Even the Virgin Mary is shown as a blue-eyed blonde. And it is not only blondes. I well remember the patriotic movie (made during WWII) which I saw on late night TV, when I was a teenager, about the early days of the Republic. The handsome young officer tells the young white belle of the ball: "White skin, blue eyes. It's too bad you don't have red hair: you'd be a walking American flag!"

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