Hold on! We might have Big Ten football after all.

[underpants]

You may not think this is politics but it is. Football is BIG MEDICINE in Ohio Michigan Wisconsin Pennsylvania and even Minnesota. Trump hung his hat on this just last week. He will declare a big victory if they vote to return to football —— BTW by all accounts it went pretty well yesterday for everyone else.

Sources: Big Ten revote on when to start football season could take place Sunday

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29870531/sources-big-ten-revote-start-football-season-take-place-sunday

The Big Ten's council of presidents and chancellors will meet Sunday to review the latest medical information and possibly vote again on when the fall football season can begin, sources told ESPN.

The medical subcommittee, co-chaired by Penn State athletic director Sandy Barbour and Ohio State lead team physician Dr. Jim Borchers, will present the presidents with at least four rapid response antigen tests that could allow Big Ten teams to test daily for the coronavirus and significantly decrease the amount of necessary contact tracing. The latest information about myocarditis and its occurrence in athletes who test positive for COVID-19 also is expected to be shared, sources said.

"It's light-years different than it was five weeks ago," a conference source told ESPN on Friday.

The medical subcommittee includes four Big Ten athletic directors -- Michigan's Warde Manuel, Michigan State's Bill Beekman, Minnesota's Mark Coyle and Maryland's Damon Evans -- as well as team doctors and other medical experts from Illinois, Purdue, Michigan, Nebraska, Northwestern, Indiana and Maryland.

[LovingA2andMI]

1. This is Stupid....

Guess it will take folks falling dead in the streets one by one to get it. Considering October is coming and the numbers are creeping up, this just might happen.

[Sherman A1]

4. Agreed

It is just that.

[634-5789]

2. Doubtful.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/michigan/2020/09/13/all-msu-students-asked-to-self-quarantine-after-school-confirms-300-covid-19-cases/

[LovingA2andMI]

5. And Growing At:

MSU, U of M, WMU, CMU and nearly every dorm settling college campus around the state,

[Klaralven]

13. Football players wouldn't necessarily live in dorms or go to classes...

[LovingA2andMI]

23. Why Not?

.......

[ProfessorGAC]

3. "Light Years Different"?

Really? How did it get "light years different" in 5 weeks?
Went from 55,000 cases per day to 35,000? That's "light years"? It's only a 36% drop!
Daily deaths (7 day MA) went from 1,060 to 780. Less than a 30% drop.
That conference source clearly doesn't understand what a light year is.

[genxlib]

15. Rapid testing can be a game changer

If you have the ability to test fast, cheap and accurate, then you have the ability to control and isolate. Imagine a scenario where everyone is tested in the locker room and assured to be clear before stepping on the field

That is a good deal safer than testing a team the day before while they were traveling to the game.

[ProfessorGAC]

26. The Logistics Of That

The rapid test is around 10 minutes.
I spent a good portion of my career working in a lab, so I know how these things work.
Even if sample prep can be done and stacked up waiting for the final result (just a guess, but spectrometric reading), one tech could probably prep 4 samples in 10 minutes.
60 guys on each team, so 30 10 minute periods. That's 5 hours.
Now, the completed reactions are scanned. One a minute. Add 2 hours.
That's 7 hours to see who is able to play that day, meaning the coaches will need 2 or 3 hours to adjust rosters and plans.
Unless they have multiple staff & hardware in a fully functional lab, I don't see how the rapid test can work with any logistical efficiency.
Are they really spending the money for a half dozen techs and multiple analytical instruments?

[genxlib]

29. The newer tests don't require lab equipment from what I can tell

It sounds closer to a nasal version of a pregnancy test than a lab test

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/08/milestone-fda-oks-simple-accurate-coronavirus-test-could-cost-just-5

Unlike conventional coronavirus diagnostics, Abbott’s test requires no specialized laboratory equipment. Abbott says the new assay will cost $5, and the company intends to produce tens of millions of the tests in September and 50 million in October. By providing near–real-time answers on whether someone is infected, the novel test promises to let infected individuals quickly learn that they should isolate themselves and prevent further spread of the virus.

Dubbed BinaxNOW, Abbott’s test uses a credit card–size device with a decades-old lateral flow technology to detect SARS-CoV-2 antigens. After a health care professional conducts a nasal swab of a patient, they insert the swab into the device along with a few drops of solution, which help the material flow across a strip containing antibodies that bind to the virus and create a color change to signal the presence of SARS-CoV-2 proteins.

I also found this article to be very interesting about the potential revolution in testing

https://www.vox.com/2020/8/27/21374002/rapid-covid-19-test-3m-abbott

[ProfessorGAC]

37. Still Talking Minutes Per Test

Have to wait for fixation for any color change test on a substrate. (Organic Physical Chemistry is one of my principal areas of expertise.)
So OK, now we're down to 5 hours, absent several techs doing the work. Also, remember I only included the 120 players. No coaches, managers or training staff.
My fear is that they shortcut the total time by testing a portion of players & staff.
Then, it's a game changer in the wrong direction.

[genxlib]

38. I am roughly familiar with your background

And I have the utmost respect and appreciation for your contribution around here. As an Engineer myself, I appreciate all efforts to keep it real when it comes to science and you are one of my favorites in that regard.

But I am not really sure I understand your reluctance on this matter.

Yes, it will take time for the test to react for a result but that is not the same thing as the time it takes to collect the sample and start the reaction. What they describe is a simple outer nasal cavity swab and shaking the swab in a solution. That sounds like something a tech could do in 30 seconds. So a single tech could do a lot of tests.

If multiple techs are needed, there is little doubt that the Big Ten would be willing to invest in that minimal cost if it meant the difference of playing or not playing. There are millions of dollars at stake in every single game so an extra few thousand dollars for testing would be an easy sell. Even if we take your time frame as the standard, they hire four more people and get that down to an hour. That is plenty quick enough considering the time a team spends in a locker room prior to a game.

And that assumes that they don't already have the necessary expertise to administer such an easy test. Every major college team already has Doctors and trainers on staff. The current approval for the test requires medical personnel but that seems likely to change. The test from Abbott is clearly developed to be easy enough to be self administered and targeted at the home use market. Even today, I was in a CVS and they are doing self-administered tests in the drive through. They hand you the kit, tell you to swab yourself, tell you to place it in the liquid vile and hand it back. Even that assumes nasal swabs. Some instant testing uses saliva sample in a spit tube.

I don't think the specimen collection is the issue. It has always been the delay between collection and result that prevents the instant testing.

I am excited about this because it isn't really about football at all. Testing that was rare and slow was the biggest problem we had back in the early months of this pandemic. It stands to reason that reversing that problem would be one of the major factors to move things in the right direction. Cheap, rapid and plentiful testing could return us to normal very quickly. You could have concerts, restaurants and bars if everyone was checked at the door. You could have schools if everyone was screened sufficiently. You could have businesses open if the workers were checked regularly. Most importantly, we could drive the R0 value down so far that the virus could peter out naturally.

While I am as cynical as the next guy about money in sports, this can work to our advantage. Universities are in a unique position of having very smart and innovative people while at the same time being very financially motivated to find a way to make things work. That combination of factors could lead to some exciting developments that can help all of us.

[ProfessorGAC]

41. I'm Not Reluctant About Anything

I expressed my concern that the logistics are much more difficult than the "light years" comment would suggest.
Your rapid test comment was apt, but that only modestly changes the logistical issues of the topic in the OP.
I'm with you on the importance of rapid testing and agree that's it's an important positive step.
But, I don't see it as a game changer for college football in the Big 10.
What the old test would have done was make the logistics impossible.
This new test clearly removes it from that category, but the logistics of managing the testing & reporting in a timeframe meaningful to the safe conducting of the game unlikely.
You said it's a game changer. In other areas of life, perhaps. But, I don't agree the game changes meaningfully because of the volume of testing needed.
I don't see "it's no longer impossible, just incredibly difficult" as a game changer.
To me, a game changer is the vaccine, or a nearly foolproof therapeutic that turns the virus from deadly to an inconvenience.
I just don't see how this test can be practically be applied to "save" the football season.
Illinois is home to 2 Big 10 schools. I'm not sure the authorities will buy into a resumption, and I doubt the regents will consent to ignoring government orders or recommendations.
Lastly, I still don't concur that rapid testing gets us "light years" from where we were 5 weeks ago.
You want college football? Good for you. I don't even watch it, so I've got no is n in the game.
But, NOTHING has improved enough in 5 weeks to justify the light years comment.

[genxlib]

43. Fair enough

For the record, I don't actually think the Big Ten will do it. I just think this is what is being discussed. I think the reality of it is that there are three or four schools that want to play and they are creating pressure with these articles by using the kind of language that we can agree is somewhat hyperbolic.

I don't think we are that far apart. My enthusiasm for testing is partly because this is first generation for what is possible. More advances will be needed before they are plentiful enough and cheap enough to really change everyday life. But those advances seem possible with what they are bringing out right now.

The logistics of the football problem seem workable to me based on the money at stake. When I see what they are doing on campus now for the student body at large, there are enormous logistical issues being tackled. At Illinois they are testing every student on campus twice a week with upwards of 10,000 tests per day. They are still lab based tests so they have a little bit slower response. But combining that level of logistics and investment with the benefits of 15 minute non-lab based results feels like a breakthrough to me.

For what it is worth, I have become less enthusiastic about a vaccine because even when one arrives, we don't have enough people willing to take it. At this rate, only about 50% of the public say they will take it. Even if it is 100% effective, that isn't enough to get to herd immunity.

Thanks for your time. Didn't mean for it to get at all contentious.

[ooky]

24. They just have an alternate definition.

They aren't concerned about facts. It's their attitude that is light years different. They see other conferences starting football so all of a sudden "someone else is doing it so we can ignore the facts now".

[Sedona]

6. If the return of football is good for Scump

then it should stay gone.

FWIW I couldn't care less about watching young men self inflict brain damage upon themselves.

[hlthe2b]

7. Selfish, exploitative, superficial people demanding that which a narcissist directs w little regard

for the health of athletes, coaches, staff.

F>>ck them all. How many have to become irreparably harmed to satisfy lust for "entertainment?"

[634-5789]

8. BOTTOM LINE: It's all about the Benjamins.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

10. This!

Money is GOD in this country.

[beachbumbob]

9. COVID exploding on college campuses and college towns so lets spread it faster and endanger

young people's lives and health? Sure why not, what could go wrong?

[smirkymonkey]

18. I really hope this doesn't happen.

My nephew just started his freshman year at Penn State a few weeks ago. His sister, who is still in high school has already contracted Covid and is home quarantined with my brother and his wife for the next two weeks. I really don't want to see another family member come down with this. Nor do I want to see other college students come down with it when it is completely avoidable.

Football really isn't worth risking the health and lives of others. I am so tired of the obsession with sports in this country.

[LisaL]

11. Even if they can test the athletes themselves, what about all the people

attending the games? Virus is already spreading far and wide among students. Are they going to be able to test every attendee that day? I doubt that.

[underpants]

14. I would think that and all the support staff is a consideration

As bad as smoking is (160 days free) it does tend to lead you to info. The work under the stadium is a lot of people. Serious amount of constant activity.

[genxlib]

39. Playing the games and having fans in attendance are two entirely different decisions

In many cases, the colleges that are playing are not having fans or the crowds are greatly reduced.

University of Miami is playing before 12k fans and that is probably 20% of their normal capacity. Even that is only because they play in the Miami Dolphins stadium. The dolphins invested a ton of money to meet certain standards that would allow that many.

The ACC schools are somewhere between 0-20% https://accsports.com/acc-news/which-acc-football-teams-plan-to-have-fan-attendance-in-2020/. Many are zero fans through September with later decisions to be made on the rest of the season

I happen to think that there is actually a bigger concern in the non-stadium attendance. When they play, the sports bars and viewing parties will get packed elsewhere. So the concern is valid.

[Chainfire]

12. But Mama, everybody else is doing it!

[genxlib]

16. I saw this coming

This was my take last week.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214009783

Pretty much the same as yours but with the added spice of abuse of power by Trump. I think he has already gained simply by being in favor of it.

[underpants]

27. Good call. I read yesterday that the ACC is concerned

about getting a whole season in. They need 8 of 15 teams to keep enough players on roster and get in Enough games.

Va Tech is an immediate concern. The game vs. UVA next week is already moved back.
If the state of North Carolina were to make some move that could wipe 4 teams.

Oddly Notre Dame jumped in late and COULD end up with a conference without a title.

[genxlib]

31. My daughter is at Ohio State

and her dorm literally over looks the stadium.

So I have been watching the Big Ten closer than normal

I am a Hurricane alum so i have always watched the ACC. UM got in their first game without any hitches. But it only takes one boneheaded move to mess thanks up.

It is going to be a strange year no doubt.

[luv2fly]

17. The idiot UW Madison Chancellor gets to vote too

Not that she botched the opening of campus or anything, along with ex Gov and former HHS tea partier wannabe Tommy Thompson. Gee this is going to go well.

[phylny]

19. Gambling with the lives of young athletes. Here in my area, there's a college athlete who had

Covid-19. She was (obviously) fit and healthy. No previous heart issues. She was just diagnosed with myocarditis.

This virus is no joke.

[Autumn]

20. Tests everyday for football players and people who need a test can't get one.

Fuck this.

[former9thward]

22. This is not March.

Where are there people "who need a test" and can't get one?

[Autumn]

28. Not March? No shit. It's Sept. I don't know where you are but where I'm at you have to

Dr.s note to get one. I was exposed and because I didn't have all the symptoms I couldn't get a test so I had to cancel a procedure I had waited 3 months to get.

[dsc]

32. actually that is very bad

We had our own testing problems here but even in May/June we could get tests if we are getting procedures (without regard to having symptoms). For where ever you are to still not be able to test those getting procedures is monumentally bad.

[Autumn]

34. My procedure was elective. They had drive in places where you could go get them

but that ended and even those were over an hour to two hours drive away.

[dsc]

36. Here the elective procedure people were required to get the tests and were getting them

I know of a couple who had electives done in May and June. I don't know the details but here that put you in the front section of the line apparently.

[dsc]

33. getting one that has results immediately is still hard in many places

About a month ago I had to call around to many different providers before I found one. Getting one where I would wait a week or so, easy, but one where I could find out same day (or in this case on site) not so easy.

[LiberalFighter]

21. If they need to rapid test daily then there is a problem.

[TheFarseer]

40. 3 times a week

Is what I read.

[RockCreek]

25. If each entire team and staff

Went into a bubble for the entire season
And there were no live audiences
I would be OK with this.
And I hate football.

[jalan48]

30. More Covid and Brain Injuries. Ain't America great!

[dsc]

35. As a teacher, here is what incenses me about this

Trump has repeatedly tried to force schools to open fully with no testing, no distancing, no nothing. Plus the feds have announced they won't pay for PPE or cleaning after I think next Tuesday. Yet the Big 10 cancels football and he is Johnny on the spot with rapid testing for them. Thanks to his bungling of this disaster teachers everywhere are at best working entirely on line and trying to teach students using platforms with which they are still unfamiliar, getting no guidance from DC in terms of what platforms are or are not good, and are required to have the virtual students come in and take exams at the end of all of this. Worst case we are teaching hybrid without any PPE, having to teach two preps per period or give up our planning, have to record all lessons, and in short, work our selves to burn out or we have classes full of non socially distancing students with no PPE. And of course no guidance or help from DC for this. Yet Big 10 football, which produces billions of dollars, and he is Johnny on the spot. Grrr.

[Demsrule86]

42. Well we shouldn't. Those kids don't even get paid...and they could end up with permanent

heart damage or dead.