Autopsy Results From Killings By White Vigilante Kyle Rittenhouse Show Massive Damage To Bodies

[tenderfoot]

This is what happens when a 17-year-old with an AR-15 is let loose on the streets after having been hyped up on right-wing rhetoric and Donald Trump worshipping. What could go wrong?

Charges against Rittenhouse were officially filed in Wisconsin on Thursday, and included two homicide counts and one attempted homicide count. Rittenhouse was also charged with two counts of recklessly endangering safety and possession of a dangerous weapon by a juvenile.

A criminal complaint filed Thursday identified the two people killed as Joseph Rosenbaum and Anthony Huber, and the injured victim as Gaige Grosskreutz.

Rosenbaum followed Rittenhouse and threw a plastic bag at him in the parking lot of the auto repair shop Car Source Auto Service, according to the complaint. Based on a video prosecutors reviewed, Rosenbaum approached Rittenhouse following a loud bang. After four more bangs, Rosenbaum fell to the ground. After allegedly shooting Rosenbaum, Rittenhouse made a phone call and said, “I just killed somebody,” the complaint said. An autopsy found that Rosenbaum was shot five times — in the right groin, back, left hand, left thigh and right side of his forehead, according to the complaint.

Rittenhouse was then chased by protestors and fell, according to the complaint. At that point, Huber tried to pull Rittenhouse’s gun away when he was allegedly shot and killed, according to the complaint. Rittenhouse then allegedly shot Grosskreutz, who had his hands in the air, in the right arm, according to the complaint.

Huber’s autopsy showed he had a gunshot wound to his chest that perforated his heart, aorta, pulmonary artery and right lung, the complaint said.

The long gun allegedly used in the shootings was a Smith & Wesson AR-15 style, .223 rifle, court records show.

[ProfessorGAC]

1. That Doesn't Seem Like Self Defense

Especially shooting the guy with his hands up.
And, the second victim: he was trying to take the gun away AFTER he already killed someone. That doesn't sound like an aggressive, attacking posture. THAT sounds like self-defense.

[Amishman]

15. The hands up would have more weight if he didn't drop them again and re-engage.

As I've said many times on here, the second group shot will come down to if the first shooting is considered self defense. All three shot at were confronting him; the first with a leaping kick, the second attempting to take the rifle away, the third attempting to bring his own gun on the little bastard.

This is not going to be simple, especially with the non-intuitive way WI laws seem to be written regarding self defense.

[ProfessorGAC]

24. Point Of Disagreement

While I agree the first victim is the lynchpin, I still don't see how it can be legally interpreted that the attempt to take the gun away AFTER he shot someone dead, to be a self-defense.
He made himself the immediate danger to life, so the guy trying to take the gun away is the one doing the defending.
But, if it all started as a self-defense I understand the complications.
Arcane as the law may be, as a practical matter I don't concur there's any justifiable claim of self-defense.

[Amishman]

29. Because WI law favors and protects someone who retreats

If (and this is a huge if) the first shooting is considered self defense, by giving pursuit - WI law views those attempting to disarm the little shit to be the aggressors.

WI law is heavily slanted towards the individual trying to retreat - even explicitly allowing them to claim self defense in some circumstances even after committing a crime (WI statute 939.48 [2].)

For probably the 10th I'll say this, it is going to be a very ugly legal process and trial. I cannot begin to guess the outcome. Right and wrong does not always mean not guilty and guilty under law.

[ProfessorGAC]

33. You Can Say It An Eleventh Time

I'm still not going to agree.
You're not the only one with an opinion that matters.

[JonLP24]

35. I agree

The prosecutor seems to understand Wisconsin law as well.

I have a feeling a lot of right wingers are going to be looking bad if he is either convicted or pleads guilty.

[Kid Berwyn]

2. What an ER doc said.

What I saw treating Parkland shooting victims should change the debate on guns

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/fl-op-parkland-shooting-ar-15-radiologist-perspective-20180223-story.html

[Hassin Bin Sober]

6. Yep. First thing I thought of when I saw that guy's bicep vaporize

[scipan]

7. Good article. Thanks for posting it. Nt

[paleotn]

10. Cousin of the 5.56 NATO round.

.223 is a very slightly scaled down version. Coupled with a 20 round magazine and a lightweight, semi-auto firearm, its place is on a battlefield, not in the civilian world.

The next time some jackass retorts...well, a .30-06 round will make your head explode...most civilian models are bolt action and cumbersum, designed for big game. The venerable M1 Garand only carries 8 rounds. The BAR is almost 4 feet long and weighs 16 freaking lbs! Not ideal for a school shootings. AR-15's fit that bill perfectly and thus should be banned. Period. End of memo.

[JanMichael]

23. Good way of explaining the issue. Sure there are more powerful rifles.

But few of them are lightweight, shortish, and and have big mags - AND can tear up a human. You are right a big ass high velocity round bolt action gun isn't a likely mass shooter gun. Same with a musket. The M1 is a military weapon and you need a squad of soldiers using them in a long ago wars to be effective.

Ban them.

[Dial H For Hero]

31. There are quite a few 7.62x51 "battle rifles" out there such as the AR-10.

Twice the energy of a 5.56x45, almost as light, almost as short, and 20 round magazines are standard for them. That being said, 5.56mm rifles are much more popular, especially with novice shooters.

My nightmare mass shooting scenario is one in which someone who knows their way around guns uses a shotgun such as the Kel-Tec KSG-25, which can be loaded with with 25 rounds of 12 Ga. Using buckshot, they could put 400 .30 caliber projectiles down range without reloading.

[weissmam]

26. speaking as a military small arms expert

I agree 100%

[Chili]

27. thank you for posting that

I have very little knowledge of guns other than what I see in a movie or series. I saw that image of Grosskreutz's arm - it was horrifying. Now I know why.

[Thomas Hurt]

3. That most telling to me....after he murders someone,

he just seems to make a call to report mission accomplished. I am curious who he was calling, christofascist nutjob militia or mommy?

[stopdiggin]

5. pretty strange. just how OFF is this kid? (nt)

[GusBob]

19. The phone call is very very strange aint it

Its a fucked up world

[smirkymonkey]

22. Yeah, that is really screwed up.

It's like he went in there with a goal.

[Dial H For Hero]

4. Tragic, but not surprising. Even a relatively weak centerfire rifle cartridge such as the 5.56x45mm

has three times the muzzle energy of a 9mm handgun.

[KT2000]

8. Yes - but

trying to stop a shooter and being shot and killed in the process is self-defense. Trayvon Martin.

[yardwork]

14. I don't understand your post.

Zimmerman didn't try to stop someone with a gun. He was the one with the gun. Martin was unarmed and Zimmerman attacked him.

Bu that logic, armed people would have been justified in attacking this killer.

[KT2000]

18. Rittenhouse lawyer said

his client shot in self defense. The unarmed man who tried to stop Rittenhouse was shot and killed by Rittenhouse. Unarmed Trayvon Martin was trying to defend himself from Zimmerman so when Zimmerman shot and killed him, the jury found he was what, standing his ground, acting in self defense?

I am saying the gun people are protected in our courts.

[yardwork]

28. I see what you mean now. It's infuriating.

[Codeine]

37. This.

The self-defense argument is ripe bullshit, but I’m quite confident a jury can be convinced it’s valid. Maddening.

[IronLionZion]

9. The worst part is how deplorables are glorifying the killer as a hero

and demonizing the people he killed as criminals. They're encouraging more to do the same. The world has gone completely insane.

[paleotn]

12. Yes, it has.

Now one of there's is dead in Portland. Like no one could have seen this coming. I think Donnie loves this shit. He feeds on death and destruction.

[Kaiserguy]

13. They do so

because the deplorables want the right to murder anyone who isn't like them with impunity. They see that Trump is the best chance they have to fulfill that sick and hatful dream. Trump also has a dream to rule and have to answer to no one no matter what he does. Todays GOP seem more than happy to let both happen.

[smirkymonkey]

25. +1000

I honestly do believe they want to kill minorities and liberals. I don't think they want this to stop, and neither does Trump. If they had their way, they would just as soon wipe us all off the map.

[dixiechiken1]

11. Self defense *might* not fly...

My understanding is that Wisconsin allows for the use of deadly force in self defense. However, the caveat is that you can't be committing a crime while that use of force happens.

If that's the case, and if - IF - Rittenhouse had illegal possession of the weapon he used, then everything that happened while he had the weapon disallows the claim self defense.

Maybe someone with legal knowledge can weigh in on this...?

[AllaN01Bear]

16. id like to know how a 17 yo got a automatic weapon om the first place

crime 1. crime 2 carrying it accross state lines . mommy driving him crime? 3.

[Paladin]

20. I'm betting Crime 1. was the easiest of the 3 crimes.

Obtaining firearms has been an easy, no-brain exercise in the U.S. for a long time. Now: getting Momma to drive you across state lines to kill somebody? That takes a little effort....

[TexasBushwhacker]

30. It's my understanding he got the gun from a friend in Wisconsin

If so, he did not transport it across state lines. The question to me is, if he cannot legally possess such a weapon, because he is underage, can he legally use that weapon in self-defense? I would think the answer would be NO.

[AllaN01Bear]

32. then his friend needs to be charged as an accessory to a crime .

[TexasBushwhacker]

34. I agree. They should charge Facebook while they're at it

They received dozens of warnings.

https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-warned-about-kenosha-guard-group-before-shooting-2020-8

[GusFring]

17. That caliber at that range will do that.

[RainCaster]

21. It's not self defense when you are committing a crime

Yep, that's WI law.
That murderer was carrying a weapon he was not legal to have. That means the defense strategy is bogus.

[Kaleva]

36. There is some debate about that.

"Law in question is this

948.60? Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18.
(1)? In this section, “dangerous weapon" means any firearm, loaded or unloaded; any electric weapon, as defined in s. 941.295 (1c)

Sounds straight forward? Yup. If this is all there was it would be open and shut an inarguable weapons violation and undermine the rest of his case.

The problem is it isn't that simple, there is a caveat to the law:

This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593. This section applies only to an adult who transfers a firearm to a person under 18 years of age if the person under 18 years of age is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593 or to an adult who is in violation of s. 941.28.


This three referenced laws do not apply here, so section 948.60 probably won't apply to the killer

941.28 is 'Possession of short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle.'
29.304? Restrictions on hunting and use of firearms by persons under 16 years of age.
29.593? Requirement for certificate of accomplishment to obtain hunting approval."

https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=13986378

[RegexReader]

38. if Trump had a son.....