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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI really like Gov. Whitmer, but ... We're looking at white privilege in real time
But I am concerned that some people are advocating that several highly qualified black women be passed over for VP in favor of white female whose primary advantage is that she holds an office that black women have never had the opportunity to hold because they have consistently been (and continue to be) shut out of being elected to statewide office.
In other words, Gov. Whitmer is being credited for performing very well in an office that black women have been blocked from holding and, thus have never been able to prove how competently they would perform in
the role.
This is a perfect example of how white privilege works and continues to be perpetuated, even when people don't intend to. Black women are essentially being penalized for not gaining certain kinds of executive experience when they've been denied access to the only venue in which they could acquire that kind of experience - while a white woman who has been granted entry into that small room is touted as more qualified than the black women to hold another office that has been denied to women of all races because she had the advantages they were prevented from obtaining.
This is not a knock against Gov. Whitmer - I think she's great. But the racial privilege is real.
SiliconValley_Dem
(1,656 posts)if he chooses someone like Governor Whitmer, it is because he believes she represents the best choice for him in his bid to unseat Trump from WH.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)SiliconValley_Dem
(1,656 posts)Kamala Harris or Susan Rice is due to white privilege
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)As I said, you missed the point.
SiliconValley_Dem
(1,656 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)I write very plainly and cogently. It shouldn't be difficult to understand - at least if you can get past the words "white privilege."
SiliconValley_Dem
(1,656 posts)Whitmer is not on the short list just because she is a popular governor. if it was reversed and Kamala Harris was a senator in Michigan and Whitmer was governor of California, I bet Kamala would be more of a lock because this also has to do with states in play--not just demographics
mercuryblues
(14,489 posts)black women are shut out of governorships.
Historically there have been only 44 women governors. 9 of whom are currently serving. None of them have been black.
There have been just 3 female minority governors, 2 Mexican American (Martinez& Grisham) and 1 Indian American (Haley.)
SiliconValley_Dem
(1,656 posts)not enough women have been/are governor. got it.
still a bizarre point as it relates to Biden's VP choice
FarPoint
(12,206 posts)I'm glad he will choose a woman ..race is not line in the sand for me ...
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Both caucasian and black females have been discriminated against for the highest offices.
It is up to Joe who he chooses, imho, & they will both have my full support regardless of skin color. 👍
jorgevlorgan
(8,227 posts)Governor
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)LisaL
(44,962 posts)Biden will pick whoever he thinks is best.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Last edited Sat Aug 8, 2020, 04:57 PM - Edit history (1)
Lots of white DUers tend to "miss the point" whenever the point involves an observation about white privilege.
GreenPartyVoter
(72,377 posts)mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)None have happened to win, but they certainly could have.
No offense but I think your argument is a bit of a stretch in this case.
If Joe/Whitmer were to win, we'd have the first woman to hold POTUS or VP. Every other time a woman has been on a ticket, that team has lost.
Let's not lose sight of that.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)is that not enough black women run for governor?
I'm not making an argument, but offering an observation and it's not a stretch.
But it is not unusual for people to push back whenever white privilege is discussed. It always makes some some uncomfortable and quick to deny it's existence - or if they're willing to admit it exists, they never think it is a factor in the case at hand.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)purely on account of being Black Women.
Not many have run, and none have won. True.
But they would have held the office if they got enough votes.
That's how democracy works.
No Catholic had ever been POTUS before JFK. Not because Catholics weren't allowed to be POTUS.
At some point recently IIRC we got our first openly gay governor in the US, too.
Gays were not blocked from running or holding the office, they just never won before that.
Edit: Saw your edit. I point out white privilege all the time here on DU, I absolutely believe there is such a thing and it's rampant
I just don't agree with your argument in this case, which appears to be that it's somehow unfair in a racial sense ... to give Whitmer a leg up over any potential black candidates ... just because she's been a governor. Like, because black women haven't been allowed to be governor. Sorry, I just think that's a stretch.
For my part, Susan Rice is my 2nd choice after Liz.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Ok. Whatever.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)Look, Starfish, I appreciate your passion and how you stand up for POC's.
And I usually agree with you. But not on this one. Sorry. I don't it's 'white privilege' to give this woman credit for the experience she has earned when it comes to deciding the best choice for VP.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)She earned the credit.
The privilege is that it gives her an advantage over black women who have never been able to get similar experience, through no fault of their own. That's not her fault. That's a systemic racism problem.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)Then we have no important disagreements
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)I have a problem with the fact that some people are now insisting that being a governor makes one better qualified for a VP slot than, say, being a state AG or a Senator or police chief or National Security Adviser or Member of Congress - and, because black women have never had the chance to acquire similar qualifications are at a disadvantage among some people.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)Because it's kinda different from what it appeared your original point was.
But if I may, who are these 'some people'?
And are you implying they are promulgating this ... let's call it 'arbitrary' ... preference for the sort of experience that only Whitmer has ... BECAUSE deep down they really just want the white woman to get the nod?
Or am I misunderstanding this point?
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)the role.
...
Black women are essentially being penalized for not gaining certain kinds of executive experience when they've been denied access to the only venue in which they could acquire that kind of experience - while a white woman who has been granted entry into that small room is touted as more qualified than the black women to hold another office that has been denied to women of all races because she had the advantages they were prevented from obtaining.
This is not a knock against Gov. Whitmer - I think she's great.
And yes, you are misreading my point - and misunderstanding the entire issue of white privilege and systemic racism.
White privilege and systemic racism can operate without any I'll will of the people it benefits. That's how it works. People giving Whitmer extra points for being governor are not necessarily doing so because of any animus toward black women. They may very well believe honestly that being a governor makes one eminently qualified to be VP.
My point and goal is to encourage people to consider how white privilege and systemic racism work when we're looking at qualifications in this way - and to understand that when we're deciding what pool which pools of experience are most desirable, we need to take in to account how those pools are filled and who can and cannot get into them, through no fault of their own.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)were simply 'choosing' to elevate the value of 'executive' experience ... over other sorts.
I guess I sort of take it as a given ... that when 'interviewing' for a higher-level executive position, previous successful executive experience at a lower level ... provides an advantage. The idea that people were just arbitrarily choosing to view things in that fashion didn't click for me when I read your OP the first time. Now that you spell it out, and have added more clarification, I see where that's what you were getting at.
I agree it's reasonable to argue that as being a manifestation of white privilege ... if one is so inclined.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)All of the women being considered have extensive executive level experience. Kamala Harris was the Attorney General of our largest state, overseeing a $700 million, 4,500-employee enterprise. Val Demings was chief of a major city police department. Susan Rice was the UN Ambassador responsible not just for diplomacy, but a large State Department operation, in addition to being a National Security Adviser with all of the executive management that entails.
And not only do these women have substantial executive experience, they also have national and foreign policy experience that the Michigan Governor does not have. But for some reason her position as governor is seen by many as superior to their experience. That's nothing new. Gubernatorial experience has long been viewed as giving someone a leg up in the presidential stakes - I simply pointed out that treating governorships as something special and superior perpetuates discrimination against people who have been consistently excluded from gathering that specific type of experience.
If a company makes having been a manager in a particular division a prerequisite for being promoted to an executive position in the company, yet has a history of never having hired a black woman as a manager in that division, that's a problem, even if on paper, the hiring process is colorblind.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)"purely" ok right. Not every single voter is voting against them because they are black women. You got us.
Of course MORE THAN ENOUGH ARE voting against them because they are black women.
But it's not "purely" so it's all good. And really it's their fault for just "not getting enough votes."
FFS.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)"she holds an office that black women have never had the opportunity to hold because they have consistently been (and continue to be) shut out of being elected to statewide office"
Which, and I may be wrong here, but I believe that originally said 'shut out of statewide office'. If not, that was how I read it at the time.
Either way, in my estimation, there's a difference between being 'shut out' ... and just never having won.
Everyone is allowed to run for office. You win or you don't win. More importantly in this context, you have the experience of that job, or you do not.
I mean, what is Biden supposed to do here, really? When he makes his spreadsheet, is he supposed to put a checkmark in the 'Governor' column for all the POC's on the list, because otherwise he's perpetuating white privilege?
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)But recognize that "qualifications" are merely predictors for how someone might perform a job they've never held before. And understand that elevating one set of predictors over others when certain candidates never had an opportunity to perform those predictors may perpetuate institutional racism.
It's like a college admissions process that gives students extra points because they attended an elite prep school that poor, minority students couldn't get in to. Unless that exclusion is taken into account and equivalent weight given to other attributes and qualifications the low income, minority students bring, the process is grossly unfair. It doesn't mean the white prep school students aren't qualified for and deserving of admission. But for the process to be fair - and very important, to ensure the school doesn't miss out on potentially exceptional students who might slip through the cracks because they couldn't make it into the white prep school bonus pool - the admissions committee must take all of this into account and not make prep school attendance the tie-breaker that puts students over the top.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)I totally get what you're saying, and I agree on that account.
But what you're saying now isn't readily elucidated from the argument in the OP.
At least, not by me ... being a white dude
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)I also think that the mere mention of "white privilege" provokes a negative, kneejerk reaction among some white people that makes it difficult for them to see past it.
Thekaspervote
(32,605 posts)I would have thought more here would understand its not an argument, but as you said an observation
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)they can't see any other words in proximity to them.
tblue37
(64,979 posts)CincyDem
(6,281 posts)Would you rather have Harris replace Pence or Ginsberg?
Never thought about that one but wouldnt that be fun.
pandr32
(11,446 posts)pandr32
(11,446 posts)I have to believe that Biden, who remains close with Obama, has a plan for all our contenders. Their talents will be put to the best use.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)I think Harris was probably his top choice, Bass was the compromise alternative, and Rice will get the pick. She's not well known and that could be a good thing.
Demsrule86
(68,347 posts)did nothing wrong but we don't need that shit. She brings no advantage to winning the ticket...sure she is so talented but I believe Rice is not the best choice for the ticket.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)It's been sucked hard and long and there wasn't much there to begin with
p.s. Rice doesn't have a legislative record, which is a plus when you get down to it, or any campaign trail goofs, which is where Harris went wrong. I am probably completely wrong though so rest assured!
Demsrule86
(68,347 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,704 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Demings, maybe a long shot, Harris, well I hope not, as the RW clips and commercials would be embarrassing as hell, but I am fairly certain it will not be Whitmer. There was a mayor of Los Angeles, James Hahn, who was strongly supported by LA African Americans mainly because of his father, a long-time supervisor. Well, Jimmy fired the AA police chief appointed by his predecessor Richard Riordan and appointed a white guy from New York. The AA community was furious and Mr Hahn was not reelected. Moral of the story: keep your promises even if you didn't actually express them.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,704 posts)If the Rs start carping about Benghazi with the country going to seed they will look like the unserious clowns they are..
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)For one thing it was 8 years ago, and for another it was always a Clinton thing. They can resurrect it but I don't think that dog will hunt.
Bettie
(15,995 posts)who will be on every network 24/7 talking about how he loves his mom, but she'd be a terrible VP and his "proof" will be that he will vote for Trump over his own mother.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Bettie
(15,995 posts)all Trumpkins. They lie as easily as they breathe.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Yes I see the problem in that the RW will be extremely interested in getting his views, particularly if they are embarrassing to his mother, but unless he's got some kind of mental or emotional disorder, I don't see that as being more than a mild embarrassment.
Bettie
(15,995 posts)because he's a Trump cultist and I've seen how awful the ones in my family are. They have no care for anything but propping up their orange idol.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/10/15/susan-rices-son-is-a-trump-loving-republican-he-says-a-stanford-classmate-assaulted-him-at-pro-kavanaugh-event/
Under his leadership, the campus GOP has become an experiment in Trumpian provocation, relishing liberal outrage and acting as a victim of the intolerant left. Rice-Camerons first major event as president was titled Make Stanford Great Again. The Facebook page for the event described its message bluntly: Trump is great. Build the wall. Deport criminal illegals. Guns save lives. There are only two genders. Abortion is murder. Defund sanctuary city San Francisco. Taxation is theft. Affirmative action is racist. White privilege is a lie.
This right here makes me think he'll be at Trump events speaking out against his mother and Biden.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)And he didn't necessarily write the Facebook ad. He'll be graduating soon if he hasn't already and leaving Stanford which is a pressure cooker. And even if he becomes a Fox News personality I don't see it diminishing his mother's credentials. Now if he becomes a crook like Trump and gets into criminal trouble that would be another story but he doesn't seem the type from the article.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)I'm sure the Biden team has vetted this and if he does pick her, that means they are 99.9999 percent sure his family loyalty is solid as a rock.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Still if 99.99% loyalty was the standard Harris wouldn't have made it to the long list let alone the short list.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Not to mention a complete non sequitur since we were talking about this young man's loyalty to his mother, not anyone's loyalty to Biden.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)or a few, aren't chosen. That needn't keep anyone from feeling rightfully proud and inspired that we are electing our first woman vice president.
No one should believe that Biden's choice does wrong to anyone. That would be wrong.
mcar
(42,206 posts)Whitmer is great - but so are quite a few black women and women of color. To pass up, say, the most senior ranking black woman in this nation's government in favor of a white governor doesn't make much sense.
blueinredohio
(6,797 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and could tell us. Would "the conscience of the congress" tell us Biden has a duty to subjugate all other considerations to race? That naming a non-black woman his running mate would be a very wrong and overtly racist act?
Not only do I feel there's something wrong with that, even if I can't quite pin it down (need Lewis's help here), I'm also distressed at the continued subjugation of women's rights to others in the civil rights movement. We all witnessed the enthusiasm of many here for primarying women, some of whom were just elected to congress in "the year of the woman," so they could be replaced with a man (of any color except white). Imo, the contempt for merely advancing the rights of women, the idea that only naming a woman would be a great moral failure and betrayal of all Americans, is more of the same at a higher level.
Electing our first woman VP of any color wrongs no one except the entire male population who were cut out of consideration. Oh, right... That discrimination does wrong them. But at least the ones we'd have wanted anyway won't need John Lewis to explain what they gain along with everyone else.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)your post is nonsensical.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)would have liked very much to see a black woman become vice president of the United States before he died.
Of course he would have believed asking America to elect a woman to the second highest office in the land would be making good trouble.
But would he believe his old friend Joe Biden actively betrayed black people if he chose a white workmate? Was he really only a black leader or a leader of us all in our march to equality?
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Why do you keep insisting on arguing against things I neither said nor implied?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)inserted into this discussion of Biden's choice, which for some reason is seen most often in discussions of white racist abuse and exploitation of black people. Something very bad that we're supposed to be battling. .
I'm going to end here because I can see that this thread could eat up my evening and for what? Speaking up for our rights and beliefs is making good trouble. Quarreling is not. I've made my points and think most understand them well enough, agreement not necessary to understanding.
We do agree that electing a black woman VP would advance the rights of all women and all men and also have special benefit for black men and women -- which in itself would also be to the good of all.
Have a nice evening.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)It's about having an advantage - or not having a disadvantage - based on being white.
Have a good evening, too.
PunkinPi
(4,870 posts)"It would be good to have a woman that looks like the rest of America: smart, gifted, a fighter, a warrior," Lewis said, noting a woman of any race would be a good choice, "I think the time has long passed to make the White House look like the whole of America."
Source (CBS News): John Lewis pushes Joe Biden to pick a woman of color to be his running mate
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)a black woman, though expressing support for any woman.
But where does he say that to choose any woman but black would be to do wrong?
It's not there. That enormous step -- from naturally wanting to use this opportunity for black advancement to seeing it as another potential way for black people to be discriminated against -- is the crux of this discussion. The "conscience of" anything would not make that stumble from the one to the other.
PunkinPi
(4,870 posts)Literally no one is saying that, OP included.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,746 posts)especially these days, that a woman of color as VP would give millions of voters a very good excuse to vote for Trump. Unfortunately.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)a very good reason to stand in line for hours and jump through numerous other hoops most white voters never have to even consider facing to vote for Biden and the first black female voice president.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,704 posts)brush
(53,467 posts)It's time to dance with the one who brung ya. Or in other words, reward black women/POC for getting you the nomination.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,704 posts)Given the fact the last Democratic presidential candidate to win a plurality or majority of the white vote was Lyndon Baines Johnson African Americans have given us the margin of victory in every successful presidential election.
Their unwavering loyalty must be rewarded. Period.
SpaceNeedle
(191 posts)Gov. Whitmer has executive experience running a government that none of the other potential candidates have.
Others have been AG or Mayor or Senator -- They are all qualified and bring different assets to the table.
You can say I like candidate X better than candidate Y but saying candidate Y is only qualified because of race is not a rational way to address it.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)What is it about the term "white privilege" that triggers some people to the point they can't see what is actually written while reading things that aren't either expressed or even implied?
SpaceNeedle
(191 posts)but by saying that even a consideration of Gov. Whitmer is because of white privilege one raises a controversial point. It also impugns Biden indirectly as though he is seriously considering white as a factor.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Saying that a white woman who has gained experience that black women cannot avail themselves of is neither a criticism of that white woman nor does it in any way impugn Biden.
It just a fact.
LisaL
(44,962 posts)Here you are bashing someone who hasn't even been selected, for mere possibility she could be selected. And the reason is her race.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Pointing out that black women are penalized by white privilege is not an attack on the white women who benefit from it.
brush
(53,467 posts)People get so defensive with the phrase white privilege.
janterry
(4,429 posts)IF he does, he'll explain WHY he did.
It's time to wait and see
Takket
(21,421 posts)and frankly as a Michigander, i am completely and totally impressed with Whitmer's leadership ability and how she has delivered one of the success stories of this crisis by shutting out drumpf and the media that relentlessly covered every moron with an ak-47 that came to Lansing. She stuck to the science at tremendous risk not just to her career but her life, and Michigan went from one of the worst hot spots to one of the safest areas of the country under her leadership.
I feel like our state still needs her and i will be disappointed if she leaves to accept a VP nomination......
but REGARDLESS of my feelings about wanting her to stay here, I believe the VP pick should either be Harris or Rice or Abrahms. I really feel like that glass ceiling for women of color needs to be broken and they are all every bit as qualified and in the case of Harris and Rice, more qualified in my mind than Whitmer. In the current political environment the Dem ticket needs to reflect the struggle of people of color in addition to the qualifications for the job. Harris came down hard on Biden in the debates over bussing and nothing could show better that he's a changed man that understands and appreciates the world today than having a woman of color at his side.
CTyankee
(63,768 posts)woman of color to run by his side this year. I have been eagerly anticipating this groundbreaking event. Every woman up for consideration has experience and much more to offer: their life experience as a WOC and how it has shaped their lives. Each one has an inspiring story. Each one has had the obstacle of racism and sexism, a real double whammy, going against them all their lives.
We live together in a multi-racial, multi-cultural world. Our leadership needs to reflect that reality.
I hope Joe thinks hard about what he knows in his heart.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,704 posts)Buckeyeblue
(5,491 posts)CTyankee
(63,768 posts)Buckeyeblue
(5,491 posts)However, a woman has only appeared on a presidential ballot for the two major parties three times. I think Biden needs to pick the person he thinks can help him govern the best.
Biden can pick a cabinet that is well diverse--that in many ways can do more to create pro-BLM policies than any vice-president can do.
CTyankee
(63,768 posts)extraordinary woman by his side who will fight for him as President and for the people of this country with a spirit and pride that would uplift us all.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)besides the obvious ones. But beyond those, it's very subjective and everyone we think he's considering is highly qualified in their own way.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Kaleva
(36,145 posts)Whitmer has shown she can handle a crisis well as top administrator in a major state.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)Somehow that assumption took on meaning that was probably far above Biden's actual thought process. Maybe Amy Klobuchar jumpstarted it. I don't remember.
My opinion is that 2024 needs to be extreme priority in this selection, given Biden's age. I am not a believer in 80 as the new 70 and stuff like that. Adjustments fail. They are always taken too far.
Again, those midwestern states are shifting away. It is silly to deny that. In prior years a 5 point lead nationally would have equated to 9 or 10+ in those states. Now some polls pretend those numbers but they aren't real world. Once the vote count actually begins we are going to be startled and nervous as one pivotal state after another is reporting close to deadlock. Just be prepared for that now. Otherwise we're going to have the nonsense threads just like 2016 election eve asserting Hillary's edge was actually 3 or 4 points beyond the polling.
I prefer Rice. I could understand why Biden wouldn't want to take that type of gamble, even if I think the fear is overblown.
If Biden understands those blue collar states and other swing states are more fragile than they appear, then choosing Whitmer makes a heck of a lot of strategic sense. Keep in mind the black vote is only 7% of the electorate in Wisconsin. It is a paltry 2% of the electorate in Arizona. Whites may be down to 70% of the electorate nationally but 81% in Pennsylvania. Only Michigan among those states matches or exceeds the national percentage of blacks. Whitmer locks up that state and may help elsewhere more than we realize. Florida is so complicated due to the Cuban demographic. I'm here and can't always figure it out. My 75 year old neighbor is a sweet lady but not always trusting of all blacks. I hear her make those comments all the time in regard to handymen I suggest. I have no idea how the Cubans would react to Harris or Rice or even Demings. I knew they would be in a frenzy with Bass or anyone linked to Castro.
Whitmer is now up to 16 cents on Predictit, with Harris at 43 cents and Rice 31 cents.
https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/5883/Who-will-win-the-2020-Democratic-vice-presidential-nomination
LisaL
(44,962 posts)Kaleva
(36,145 posts)I'm fine with anyone Biden chooses but I do agree with others that Whitmer has some advantages.
Whoever is picked will be the presumptive nominee for 2024 and I'm pretty sure Biden and his advisors are thinking about that.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,704 posts)-Amy Khlobuchar dropped out because she thought the times demand a person of color as Joe's running mate.
-Biden is getting excoriated on black social media for some of his statements on race. Whatever we think of it it's real to them, really real. They feel put upon having to defend them.
-An African American running mate inoculates him from much of it.
-2016 was the first election in several cycles where the white portion of the electorate actually increased.
-Ceteris paribus Hillary would have won WI, PA. and MI if she would have matched Obama's black turnout in 2012. She wouldn't have needed one extra vote from any other group.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)In light of the George Floyd protests & that she represents Minnesota.
LisaL
(44,962 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,704 posts)Given the fact the last Democratic presidential candidate to win a plurality or majority of the white vote was Lyndon Baines Johnson African Americans have given us the margin of victory in every successful presidential election.
Their unwavering loyalty must be rewarded. Period.
LisaL
(44,962 posts)everybody has their own favorites. So, sorry, he can't make everyone happy.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,704 posts)PTWB
(4,131 posts)But there is still unequivocally a right choice and a wrong choice.
Hint: diversity matters.
CTyankee
(63,768 posts)leaders about this choice. What is Clyburn telling him? Not to mention all the other brothers and sisters across the country telling him the same thing?
I hope we are right and they are pressing this point with him. We are proud Democrats! We can do this! Biden must not waver or be distracted from this urgent choice!
I am hopeful...
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,704 posts)The former is a sitting senator and former AG of the largest state in the Union and the latter is a Rhodes Scholar and former NSA Adviser.
And Val Demings has a great life story.
CTyankee
(63,768 posts)Please, Joe, don't throw away this opportunity to make this election truly ground breaking! Listen to your heart and your head!
Demsrule86
(68,347 posts)who will help the ticket? We really need the Senate.
Music Man
(1,181 posts)I'd imagine they're being tight with leaks. Campaigns do smokescreens all the time. I'd be surprised if they'd be so brazen as to fly her out to Delaware.
I may be wrong!
wishstar
(5,267 posts)Per ABC news "A source familiar with the vetting process confirms that the former vice president met with Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer last Sunday, marking the first known meeting between Biden and a vice presidential candidate.
Flight records show a private plane departed Lansings Capital Region Airport last Sunday evening and arrived in Delaware Coastal Airport -- about 30 minutes from Bidens beach home in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware. A return flight landed back in Lansing late that same evening."
Music Man
(1,181 posts)What I meant was that I'd be surprised if they'd be so brazen as to fly her out to Delaware (from Michigan, no less) if she is really the VP choice.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)If Joe doesnt select a Black woman it will be deeply troubling. The most marginalized in our society are crying out for change.
It makes me sick to read people dismissing the leading Black VP contenders because they dont have enough experience when it is precisely institutional racism and white privilege that has kept them from getting that experience in the first place.
As great as Joe will be, he is still an old, white man. We need to balance this ticket by selecting a relatively youthful, charismatic and brilliant Black woman.
Joe has made some racially insensitive (to put it gently) gaffes. Selecting an accomplished Black woman as his running mate would alleviate the pressure that these have caused.
Honestly I cant think of a single reason Joe shouldnt select one of the Black contenders. Theyre all exceptionally qualified.
CTyankee
(63,768 posts)Together, they were smashing! Imagine now what Joe could do, working side by side with a black woman? That is so exciting!
rzemanfl
(29,540 posts)Bettie
(15,995 posts)but she's also someone who is conventionally pretty, and has a demeanor which makes her palatable to the older white men we've heard are a large part of his search committee. They don't process her as "ambitious", even if she is.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)And true.
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)that I'm sure many of the older people and let's be honest White males are pushing in Biden's camp.
Hillary should have picked an AA or Hispanic male last time, and Biden should pick an AA women this time. (Although I also would have been fine with a Latina but that doesn't appear to be on his short list).
BannonsLiver
(16,161 posts)Im not as excited about Rice as some here are. The other problem with Whitmer is that she is a governor. I dont think picking a governor works in the middle of a pandemic. I dont think Michigan is a good place to test that theory either. So beyond the issue with her skin color potentially being problematic I dont think it works for other reasons as well. I also dont think hes going to pick her so its probably moot.
helpisontheway
(5,004 posts)it makes me ill that people are saying that the vp candidate must be AA. I dont like the fact that if he chooses a white woman people will say it is because he takes the black vote for granted. Or that he did not choose a different candidate because of race. I want Biden to choose the person that can help him win. I want Biden to choose a person that he can successfully govern with. I dont want him to be pushed into accepting a VP candidate like John Kerry was pushed to choose Edwards. Biden plus any of those ladies is better than Trump/Pence. 🤢
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)countingbluecars
(4,766 posts)Picking one of the highly qualified black women is essential to his election.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)You are right. She's a great governor but she's been granted access over her career that black women have had a harder time accessing, and what she's accomplished thanks to that access is what is making people say she'd be a great VP choice. She would be, but others would also be, and we quite honestly need her to stay in Michigan.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)I think I made myself very clear. Unfortunately, too many people saw the words "white privilege" and instinctively began circling the wagons - which includes completely ignoring plain English and imaging I said things I didn't say
gollygee
(22,336 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)There is a pinch of that sprinkled around, isn't there?
boston bean
(36,186 posts)If it turns out to be Whitmer I will be happy too.
You know white women face very real sexism and misogyny. Yes yes, it is different than racism and it is worse to have racism piled on top of misogyny. but I am not gonna hold it against Biden or her because she isnt black.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)for some observation.
1. Black women have been historically and systematically excluded from being governor.
2. Therefore, if being a governor is treated as a more valuable qualification for being a VP pick - or even a tie-breaker - that means that black women are at a disadvantage because of systemic racism - which translates into the white woman whose qualifications as governor puts her over the top having benefitted from white privilege.
That's not a criticism of or accusation against the white woman or of the person choosing her. It's just a fact.
boston bean
(36,186 posts)I get all the very real angles. But I really think sometimes we divide our power.
A black man became president before any woman. I think it speaks volumes.
JI7
(89,172 posts)Black women will be the biggest supporters of the Biden ticket no matter who he picks as vp and that's exactly why he should pick a black woman.
It's about representing those who most support the party consistently.
boston bean
(36,186 posts)All this divvying up drives me bonkers sometimes. The points are important. Realities are important, but we are just pitting ourselves against each other it seems sometimes.
It is true there has not been a female black governor. And that is shameful. But it would be a historic event to have any color woman VP.
Like I say. I want Kamala. I hope it is Kamala because she would be The best and a great pick.
JI7
(89,172 posts)no matter who Biden picks.
But the racial divisions exist in this country and that's a reality.
I thought it was pretty fucked up that we had one of the most qualified candidates in 2016 . She was a white women who fought for women and minorities her entire life and most white women voted for someone trashy like Trump instead. And the reason for this was their hatred for minorities.
boston bean
(36,186 posts)But it would still be a great victory for all women if any color woman became vp.
JI7
(89,172 posts)tishaLA
(14,176 posts)in scare quotes. It's almost a reflex at this point
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Celerity
(42,627 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)ecstatic
(32,566 posts)Last edited Sat Aug 8, 2020, 07:26 PM - Edit history (1)
As you said, due to racism, black women have been excluded from certain positions of power. And it sucks that we might watch it happen again. But here's the thing:
I'm not looking for temporary satisfaction. I need trump OUT. My life is on the line! My family and friends' lives are at stake! If America is still too racist and sexist to elect Biden with a black woman VP, then let Biden pick Whitmer or whoever the hell they are confident will win.
That's all that matters to me right now.
Demsrule86
(68,347 posts)RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)Yes, as a white male I am utterly frightened. This guy is openly trying to steal the election.
The comfort some people seem to have in implying If the vp selection isnt who I want I might not bother voting is something else.
Crunchy Frog
(26,548 posts)My ONLY priority with this ticket is getting Trump OUT!
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)We are really doing this?
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Feel free not to participate if it's a topic you're not interested in.
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)Biden is going to pick the person that he feels gives him the best chance to remove him and to govern the country.
How the hell does white priv come into play?
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)But if you're truly interested in the topic and an answer to your question, please read the posts in this thread.
brooklynite
(93,834 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)But my was very clear and doesn't need translating anyway.
Nice try, though ...
brooklynite
(93,834 posts)...just as I and over are welcome to disagree.
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)What does white priv have to do with this?
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Unless you don't understand what white privilege is.
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)I will always be learning what my white priv affords me. Because I cannot understand fully what it feels like to be someone that is disadvantaged as a result of it I will always be learning. But I do not understand how or why we are tying the vp pick to that. We need a qualified individual to help run the executive branch of the government and we need someone in a strategic position to help achieve that. Whats more we dont even know what is going to happen yet.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)I'm pointing out an example of how white privilege works.
It's amazing how even the mention of white privilege causes so many white people to overreact, assume things that weren't said or implied, and generally go off the rails.
White privilege is real. It doesn't mean the people who benefit from it are bad people or even that they don't deserve anything they get. In this instance, it is manifested in how black women must compete with white people as if the playing field were even when, in reality, they are operating at a disadvantage not of their own making or of the making of the white people who benefit from the privilege.
Discussing this in no way suggests that a less qualified person should be selected for the VP slot. It does suggest that white people should think more carefully about what "qualifications" mean, how people do and don't attain them, and how they are used to determine someone's fitness for a position, be it political or otherwise.
There's nothing wrong with people looking more closely at their assumptions. There's no reason for them to assume that being asked to loom deeper than the surface on these things is an insult, an attack or a demand to lower standards.
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)In your very first sentence you tie it to the VP pick. You said you are concerned that people are advocating that several qualified black women are being passed over for a white woman.
You are being intentionally disingenuous here and not being truthful with what you are saying you have said. You are moving the goal posts. Further black females have been elected to statewide positions before and while I dont know if that is true for governor the truth is that nit enough have been elected to represent in our government. But still, making the accusation that people who are enthusiastic of Whitmer because of white privilege and that they are passing over black women is pretty darn insulting to them and to the accomplishments of Whitmer herself as she is a very qualified individual who possesses some strong political reasons for the consideration.
Personally my favorite candidate is Harris who unfortunately doesnt provide the benefit if potentially delivering a state that we lost last election in MI. One that had previously been a reliably blue state.
Sorry Starfish but this OP of yours was off the mark fir me and it just seems that you are throwing mud at Joe and the democratic party and members here at DU that really doesn't need to be thrown. There is enough white privilege
to be dealt with. I do agree that getting more women POC elected to all levels of our government would serve us better. I just dont agree that the people you broad stroked in your post deserved it.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Assuming that pointing out white privilege is "pretty darn insulting" and "throws mud at Joe, the Democratic Party, and members here at DU," accusing me of lying and of being "intentionally disingenuous," and defending people I supposedly "broad strokes" is the epitome of an overreaction.
If you haven't already, I recommend you read "White Fragility:
Why It's So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism" by Robin DiAngelo. That might help you better understand my point - my original one and my obervations about the reactions to it.
brooklynite
(93,834 posts)Gov Whitmer was elected during the Trump Administration..
Gov. Whitmer has stood up to Trump on the issue of COVID...
Good enough for me...
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Demsrule86
(68,347 posts)other one who might help with a battle ground state.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)if she's on the ticket?
If so, isn't it just as likely that there are numerous voters in Michigan and several other swing states who might not vote for Biden but will if a black woman is on the ticket?
As I said, all of these women bring something to the table.
Demsrule86
(68,347 posts)SMC22307
(8,088 posts)Stacey Abrams aside, why have black women been blocked from holding the governor's office?
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)SMC22307
(8,088 posts)at the local, state and national levels. Plus black female CEOs and high-ranking members of the military. What, specifically, is it about the governor's office?
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Why do YOU think there have been no black female governors?
SMC22307
(8,088 posts)stir away.
Yorkist
(59 posts).....that must be because theyre denied access and prevented from being such. At least according to you.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)It's not a difficult question.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)It is a shame it took until 2020 for that to happen.
SMC22307
(8,088 posts)JI7
(89,172 posts)Biden has had in person conversations and even worked with many of the women on his list but this is not true when it comes to Gretchen Whitmer since she was mostly in Michigan. So it could just be they wanted to get an in person meeting and conversation .