Republicans in 2012 and cults...people who adamantly believe falsehoods- how to persuade them?

[mahina]

Remember all those knuckleheads who were sure the world was going to end, or a spaceship was coming to take them all, etc?

How different are today's right wingers? If you know any, you know how hard it is to persuade them of facts that aren't consistant
with their world view. Just like the cultists, if the day came and the world didn't end, they found another way to rationalize.

Heads up DU, not everybody sees what we see. For instance, when the Romney tape went viral, I know a few folks (generally not political) who got IMs on their screen in big letters about Obama's redistribution of wealth video, and no info about the Romney tape.

We are a little bit in our own echo chamber too, and should be aware of that as we consider how to persuade those patiently waiting for
the spaceship in their bunkbeds.

[Zen Democrat]

1. I don't pollute my thoughts with the lies of the right.

If you think the truth is in an echo chamber, then you don't know the truth.

[mahina]

6. Nice to meet you.

[librechik]

2. recent studies show even confrontation with the facts won't change anyone's mind

In fact, if contradicted, they will struggle harder than ever to insist the original position was correct, despite the facts.

So. nothing you can do will persuade others they are wrong.

I know this won't stop most people from trying, tho. You just can't change their minds about wanting to change minds.

It's human nature.

[mahina]

7. I read them too!

I study that stuff, or did.

But reality can leak in like light through a crack in the wall. It definitely doesn't work to tell them they are stupid, and we tend to do that a lot. Not you of course.

[Silent3]

12. I'm guessing those studies measure short-term reactions...

...over a few days or even hours (like I said, just guessing). While I know more time and more contradictory data often won't help, I'd at least hope that some people's minds can be changed over time by the cumulative effect of enough contradictory facts. It probably takes a crisis of some sort, with an emotional impact, to break through our defenses on some issues, other changes (I've experience this myself) slowly evolve over time.

[hedgehog]

3. The Obama administration re-wrote the regulations on school lunches to

require more vegetables, more fruit, less sodium and saturated fat, more whole grains. Overall calories are limited according to age group to train kids not to over-eat. I have a friend who is a cardiologist who is making fun of this, just because it came out of the Obama administration!

[Warpy]

4. Short answer: you can't

The only thing that gets through to them is the extreme pain of cognitive dissonance between the world as it is and the world as some authority they respect tells them it is. This is why people get angry and defensive when we try to interject a few facts into their lie filled bubbles. It hurts and it doesn't work, making them cling even more tightly to the nonsense.

I just want them to keep the crazy to themselves. I'm pretty good at getting them to do so.

[mahina]

9. I find asking questions opens the door to a conversation.

They usually reject assertions of fact out of hand, but if we can agree on a principle, questions get through.

The conversation is over as soon as they become ego-involved, so the social scientists say. ( I know, science, phhhth

The first response to this post is Exhibit A.

[Warpy]

15. Oh, I do that if I think they're reachable and teachable, at all

If it's a ranting blowhard, I mostly laugh and walk away, twirling my index finger next to my temple.

But yes, as soon as the cognitive dissonance starts getting painful, they shut down. At that point, the best thing to do is walk away and let them chew on it for a while.

[HopeHoops]

5. You can't open a mind that's closed with super glue.

[liberalmuse]

8. In my experience

you just keep hammering the truth. It could take months, years, or it's possible it might never happen. My sister and talked to our mom for years about what the Bush administration was doing, but she didn't believe us. One day, the light came on - when she found out that the Bush administration was torturing people. Prior to that, she loved W, and had voted for him twice, but when she heard that news report, everything came back to her about what we'd been telling her, and she ended up not only voting for Obama, she actually worked at the Democratic campaign office and made calls for him, even though she was dying of cancer. She loved him towards the end and used her last precious breaths to defend him, even to her own pastor and fellow fundies.

[mahina]

10. That is awesome.

Thank you for sharing her with us. Aloha.

[RockaFowler]

11. Whenever you tell the truth or give them facts they always say that it's liberal

Maybe if they would stop watching Faux Snooze and listening to Rush Bimbo they may be able to see through all of the clutter. I really think they don't want to, though. They like living in a bubble (see Bill Maher's bit on Real Time). They like the fact that they can't be bothered to even think. They like that others do the thinking for them. That is why the Republican Party is going bye-bye. Sheep only follow for so long. Then they get tired and move on to the next shiny object.

[marions ghost]

13. What to do

with the wingnuts who are completely blind & will get hostile if you try to debate anything? I guess you mean those who have bought all the lies. Part of that is because they are so desperate to belong, to be on the winning side. They have a lot of face to lose. They are addicted to the constant barrage of rhetoric which makes things simple, black and white. They believe they are right & will fight to the death about it.

Never be drawn into arguing. Never. Never be abused, badgered or baited. If pressured, give them ONE SHORT sound bite to think about. One. OK maybe 1-2, but make it fast. And make it on topic. Don't stray. Just a fact or two, with as little emotion as possible. Understand that MORE WORDS are NOT going to bring results. Stick to sound bites. Patience. If they are going to turn around they will eventually. No amount of force can do it. But don't bank on it, even if it's a close friend or family member. Pay more attention to supporting those you do have a chance of connecting with. Know the difference. If they ever do come around to your view, never expect an acknowledgement. Just flow with it. Some are waking up, some never will.

[treestar]

14. I'm beginning to think it might be worth trying

Simply sound even more certain than they do. Authoritarian followers may pause if we sound certain and authoritative.

[marions ghost]

17. Exactly

re. trying to be "certain and authoritative" --which is hard for flexible, liberal types--but the truth is you have to talk to inflexible people in their own language. You have to show that you're as strong in your beliefs as they believe they are in theirs. It is a lot about personality.

[porphyrian]

16. Today's republican party includes many of those people.

You know, the ones who believed the "Left Behind" books were really going to happen. The Akin people. They're like a tribe with a dangerous mythology that they are too stupid or unwilling to control. Those folks. Reagan's people got in bed with them to win in 1980 and their inbred, retarded children are demanding positions of power now. Instead of telling them no, it seems many of the sane people in their party are just bailing before it piles full speed into a wall.

Oh, sorry about saying "retarded" twice, everyone who I've offended with it.

[M_M]

18. You don't Persuade them

You just make fucking well sure that you outvote them!