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Mon Jul 27, 2020, 02:14 PM

I was wrong, traitor CANT postpone election ...

What can happen and Thom Hartmann warned of this months ago, is the 12th amendment can come into play...

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/does-the-constitution-allow-for-a-delayed-presidential-election


The Constitutionís text requires that a group of electors, commonly called the Electoral College, chooses the next president. If a majority of electors fails to agree on a winner, Congress picks the winner in continent elections held within Congress under the terms of the 12th Amendment.


If enough states (red states) say they are unable to certify their election results due to either civil unrest or the virus, the 12th can kick in...Guess what happens then, each state gets ONE vote.

26 states are cons (traitors)
24 are dems (patriots)

The math is simple, the point of my thread STAY HOME until Nov 3, do NOT protest, do NOT give the traitors, the fascists a reason to make this happen...PLEASE!


(David Frum is why I suggested he could postpone it in the first place, he wrote an article about two dates between now and election where he could somehow do that, but I cant find the article now, maybe I imagined it, who knows at this point.)

The last time I yelled as loud as I could for people to do something was asking people to stop bashing Hillary, and here we are. That didnt work, maybe some will listen to this and pass it on..

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Arrow 33 replies Author Time Post
Reply I was wrong, traitor CANT postpone election ... (Original post)
Eliot Rosewater Jul 27 OP
VMA131Marine Jul 27 #1
Eliot Rosewater Jul 27 #2
uponit7771 Jul 27 #12
Demsrule86 Jul 28 #29
PRETZEL Jul 27 #3
Thekaspervote Jul 27 #4
honest.abe Jul 27 #5
Eliot Rosewater Jul 27 #9
Salviati Jul 27 #6
VMA131Marine Jul 27 #7
Thekaspervote Jul 27 #8
lagomorph777 Jul 27 #15
Demsrule86 Jul 28 #30
triron Jul 27 #10
Eliot Rosewater Jul 27 #13
Dan Jul 27 #11
SpaceNeedle Jul 27 #14
obamanut2012 Jul 27 #16
Eliot Rosewater Jul 27 #17
SpaceNeedle Jul 27 #18
Eliot Rosewater Jul 27 #19
SpaceNeedle Jul 27 #20
Eliot Rosewater Jul 27 #21
SpaceNeedle Jul 27 #22
Demsrule86 Jul 28 #31
Eliot Rosewater Jul 28 #32
Kaleva Jul 27 #23
not_the_one Jul 27 #24
Eliot Rosewater Jul 27 #25
triron Jul 28 #27
Magilla Jul 28 #26
onenote Jul 28 #28
Magilla Jul 28 #33

Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 02:20 PM

1. One caveat ...

Itís the new congress that votes not the current one. Is there any chance the Democrats win a majority of the state delegations in November? Then again, if the states cannot certify the votes for president, how can they certify the congressional elections?
One way to throw things into chaos would be to make it so the only legitimate legislators are the 66 or 67 Senators who are not up for re-election.

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Response to VMA131Marine (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 02:22 PM

2. Good point, dont know. What I do know is traitor (my nickname for the asshole) and barr

and mcconnell have no interest in justice, democracy or voting or America.

They WILL do anything and now they will include force in their arsenal.

But the 12th is something Hartmann brought up a while ago, after learning more about it, well lets just say it gives one reason to worry.

And what WE CAN do is STAY home (as in dont protest at this point in time) and give the traitors one less legitimate reason to claim they cant certify their elections.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 04:09 PM

12. +1

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Response to VMA131Marine (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 28, 2020, 12:41 PM

29. Yes we are on track to win big in the house...the GOP has given up on the house and

is not sending them any money.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 02:31 PM

3. I honestly don't know the answer

but I'm not sure a state's Secretary of State can choose to not certify the results of an election without either an automatic recount based on margin of victory or one candidate challenging the results.

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Response to PRETZEL (Reply #3)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 02:35 PM

4. This is my understanding of it

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 02:42 PM

5. The Republican Governor of Maryland will not go along with this scheme to protect TRump.

Our Gov Larry Hogan, has vocally opposed Trump on many issues and there is no way, in my opinion, he will vote to delay this election to benefit Trump. I suspect there are a couple more R Govs like Hogan across the country.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #5)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 03:39 PM

9. Great news, hope it is so.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 02:44 PM

6. If the states can't certify their election results and don't appoint electors, then my reading...

... is that they lose their votes.

The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote


If red states want to monkey around, it just reduces the total number Biden would need to win.

As I read it, the only way the House of Representatives could get involved in a two way race is if there were a tie.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 02:44 PM

7. There is another possibility nobody is talking about

We know Trump was trying to get dirt on Biden from Ukraine. I wouldnít put it past Trump and Barr to just make stuff up and have Biden arrested just before the election or even after it if/when Trump loses.
I mean, if you know that you are in jeopardy of prosecution the moment you are out of office you are going to do anything and everything necessary to not leave. It wonít matter that the charges will be completely bogus.

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Response to VMA131Marine (Reply #7)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 04:40 PM

15. Like anybody gives a shit about some made-up story about complex financial dealings of a relative?

When the vote is about whether we allow Trump's Virus to kill us all or not?

Please, this kind of trivial crap would not make the slightest dent this year.

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Response to VMA131Marine (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 28, 2020, 12:43 PM

30. That won't happen.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 03:54 PM

10. Here is an Op-ed from Bloomberg that says it can't be ruled out.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-04-13/can-trump-postpone-2020-election-here-s-what-constitution-says

"Of course, we cannot rule out the possibility that Trumpís lawyers will gin up a constitutional argument that will support whatever he wants to do, or that he will ignore legal restrictions on his authority. If so, we would be in a genuine constitutional crisis Ė and be witness to authoritarianism in its defining form. "

So would it be surprising to anyone here that Trump will ignore legal restrictions?

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Response to triron (Reply #10)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 04:35 PM

13. So traitors propose to postpone, taken to SC, probably 5-4 in favor of the constitution because

Roberts doesnt want his legacy to be that tarnished, but how long does it take them to hear the case?

etc

Am I putting too much trust into Roberts?

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 04:08 PM

11. Then one has to wonder

How will the GOP govern the nation - do they have enough federal agents to maintain control in the blue states?

What role or actions will the US Military take? Trump (post election) will continue to push and push the nation, I canít speak for anyone but myself, - but this man has stressed the shit out of me.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 04:38 PM

14. This is wrong

 

It is not a majority of ALL electors but of those electors who show up. So if the red states refuse to certify the election, Biden will win by an even larger landslide.

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Response to SpaceNeedle (Reply #14)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 04:44 PM

16. exactly

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Response to SpaceNeedle (Reply #14)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 04:47 PM

17. Not if the 12th is invoked.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #17)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 04:53 PM

18. Here is the text of part of the 12th

 

The Electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;-The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;-The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President,


If the red states won't "appoint" the delegates, they are not counted. It is simple actually. "Majority of the whole number of delegates appointed"

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Response to SpaceNeedle (Reply #18)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 05:11 PM

19. wait

But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice.


One vote per state...

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #19)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 08:33 PM

20. That is IF the electors are unable to choose with a majority.

 

That part is conditional. So if none of the states certify an election or if there is a tie, then that clause kicks in.

Hypothetically, if just one elector is appointed and that elector votes for Biden, Biden becomes president.

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Response to SpaceNeedle (Reply #20)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 08:35 PM

21. None? Where does it say that?

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #21)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 08:44 PM

22. Here ...

 

and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President.


The second part deals with more than 2 people running for POTUS and all having some electors on their side. So the only way there will not be a majority is if there is a tie because only two candidates are going to win the different states.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #17)

Tue Jul 28, 2020, 12:44 PM

31. We are going to win more seats in the house...so I don't see it.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #31)

Tue Jul 28, 2020, 01:00 PM

32. ...

One of the admirable characteristics of a liberal is hope, they always have hope, we always have hope.

I seem to have lost that based on my observation and predicting that whatever the worst possible thing that could be done would be done and that has been what has happened but I will try and have hope.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 09:02 PM

23. The 12th states the candidate must win a majority of APPOINTED electors

"The Electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;-The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;-The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President,"

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxii

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 09:22 PM

24. well, I hate to be the debbie downer here (no offense to any Deborahs, Debbies, Debs, Rahs (?)...

After all you academics, members of the intelligentsia, nay sayers and sooth sayers decide what will, or will not, be allowed, make sure you notify the republicans.

Because we ALL KNOW that they don't give a shit about the rules, norms, or the constitution, which they use to wipe their ass. They don't care about this country, or democracy. That is SOOOO last century (pre Reagan).

They will do whatever they damn well please, making shit up to justify it, explain it, dismiss it. THAT IS WHAT THEY DO.

We will patiently explain to them why they can't do what they are doing, and they will say SO FUCKING WHAT. WE WILL DO WHATEVER WE DAMN WELL PLEASE.

So, all this "they can't do this" and "they can't do that"..... sit back and JUST WATCH THEM do it.

I will keep telling people, even though you are a peaceful and gentle person, MAKE SURE YOU ARE ARMED. If the turd DOES decide to push that last boundary to keep from going to jail, there IS going to be war. Call it civil, cultural, whatever. Letting them have our country is not an option.

I believe Biden has a commanding lead, and I can't see a way for them to pull it off. But I was gobsmacked when the turd was elected, and have been being gobsmacked weekly, sometimes daily, at what he, and his republican enablers, have managed to pull off, even though legally what they were doing was impossible. But they have done it.

So admonishing those of us who just can't bring ourselves to trust the "rule of law" holding, isn't helpful. We have to be prepared for the worst.

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Response to not_the_one (Reply #24)

Mon Jul 27, 2020, 10:29 PM

25. Thank you

I just wish I was younger and in better health because there is going to be a confrontation a problem count on it for sure.

We have to remember the republican party no longer is a political party they are a group of violent fascist criminals

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Response to not_the_one (Reply #24)

Tue Jul 28, 2020, 11:20 AM

27. Well this is what my earlier post alluded (at least partially) to.

Thank you for being courageous enough to state an unpopular (or so it seems) proposition.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Tue Jul 28, 2020, 11:12 AM

26. Can't be done

Hartmann is lying about the one vote deal. In order for that to happen it takes an act of Congress.

So if it were to happen it would be legitimate because the democratic party controlled House would have to approve it.

I wish Hartmann would quit saying that, because it simply isn't true.

So Trump can't postpone the election states can't overthrow the election.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Original post)

Tue Jul 28, 2020, 11:49 AM

28. You're also wrong about the 12th amendment being invoked if red states don't certify

the appointment of electors.

Under the 12th amendment, the person who gets a majority of the "appointed' electors is president. If the states don't certify, those electors aren't "appointed" and they aren't considered in determining what constitutes a majority.

The election reverts to a one vote per state fallback only if one candidate doesn't get a majority of the appointed electors -- something that can only happen if there is more than one candidate receiving electoral votes.

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Response to onenote (Reply #28)

Tue Jul 28, 2020, 01:50 PM

33. All nonsense

I believe the entire idea is nothing more than a radio host ginning up controversy to build an audience.

Unless there is some sort of unforeseen problem in the Biden campaign or health issue Biden is going to easily win the election.

On inauguration day he will become president and trump will be gone. Now grant it he will go kicking and screaming about how he was robbed and cheated but, he will go nonetheless

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