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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo I Lost A Friend To The Cult Of Trump Today
It probably shouldn't bother me, but it does. When I met this guy, he was a very thoughtful, independent thinker with many good ideas and was definitely not prone to slavish adherence to ideology. We had many very deep conversations about philosophy and religion and the law and all kinds of stuff. He claimed he was a Libertarian, and was always in favor of freedom in every way and at all times. He hated Fox News, George W. Bush, and many of the things Republicans stood for. He voted for Obama twice. But sometime in 2016, he decided that he loved Trump. He said, "I don't know why I like him. I think maybe it's the troll in me that just thinks it's funny when he trolls people."
Over the next few weeks and months, he became more and more in the thrall of all things Trump, and he no longer was the person I had known only months before. Out of the clear blue sky, he became obsessed with buying a gun. The the anti-Obama rhetoric started ratcheting up. He said something to the effect that he was a "Nationalist" and believed in "America First," which was a surprise to me because until then, he was very anti-war and anti-interventionist. At one point, he became violently angry at a Coke commercial because there was a Muslim girl in it (remember the Coke commercial they ran back then showing people saying "Merry Christmas" in all different languages). He literally shouted at the screen, "OF COURSE they have to put a MUSLIM in it They ALWAYS have to include a Muslim!!!" I was like, "Way to miss the entire point of the commercial." Later that very same day, an ad for Hillary ran on the TV showing quotes of things Trump had actually said, and one of them was some reference to a woman being a "big, fat pig." He turned to me and said, "He said those things about Rosie O'Donnell. He wasn't talking about a PERSON. He was talking about Rosie O'Donnell." At that point, I was like, "Who ARE you?"
At the beginning of 2017, he moved back to Michigan to be near his family again. And it was all downhill after that. He moved back to Ohio in April of this year, and he was very different. He told me he never had and never WILL wear a mask because the Coronavirus is nothing but a big hoax. I let all this stuff go in the interest of keeping the peace. He then told me he wouldn't be watching football games with me this year because he was tired of the NFL telling him he was racist because he didn't like kneeling, or that they had "sold out to Black Lives Matter." In that conversation, he repeatedly used the word "cuck," and I think we all know what that means. He's been spending time on right-wing, borderline Nazi (or even full-blown Nazi) websites.
And then tonight, the final blow came down. We were making plans to start working out together again, and he asked me what my gym's mask policy was. That sent him on an anti-mask tirade, to which I said that if selfish assholes would just wear masks, this virus would go away. He was incredulous that I would call him a selfish asshole, to which I replied that if he didn't care enough to do literally the least intrusive thing possible to ensure I don't bring home a deadly virus to my kids and diabetic mother, then yes, you ARE a selfish asshole. He then launched into a tirade about how this is all a big hoax, mortality rates are plummeting, 99% of the people who get it have no symptoms at all, and the only people dying from it are old people. I said, "I guess All Lives don't Matter anymore, then." He didn't like that.
He then launched into the protests, and how only the "panty wad libs" are causing trouble and creating violence in the streets. I told him the FBI proved that literally all the violence was cause by right-wing extremist groups. He then guffawed heartily that I was stupid enough to trust the FBI. He called them "scumbag globalists" or something close to that. I said, "I've never heard the FBI called Jews before, but whatever. He acted like he had no idea where I would get that. I told him that I know the secret code words the alt-right use, and I know that "globalists" means "Jews." He then acted all indignant that I would have the temerity to call him an antisemite, said some very unsavory things to me, and then told me he was blocking my number.
So that friendship is over. It bothers me a little because we were really good friends for a long time, but he became so immersed in the Cult of Trump that he lost every scintilla of his own personality and swore fealty to Herr Trump. He used to talk about how he loved freedom, and now he hates people kneeling during the National Anthem. I bet he's even anti-abortion now, despite the fact that his girlfriend HAD an abortion while he was still living here. Here's the real tragedy of it. I would have taken a bullet for him. He chose Trump over me. Do you think Trump would take a bullet for him?
dawg day
(7,947 posts)>I would have taken a bullet for him. He chose Trump over me. Do you think Trump would take a bullet for him?
This is the scariest thing for me. They will choose Trump over their loved ones, their friends, their children. I don't understand it. Do they think Trump will sit with them in the hospital, pick them up at 4 am at the airport, give them a bed when they've been kicked out of their house?
renate
(13,776 posts)I think they know he doesnt give a fart about them, and that is just fine with them. To them, it is an honor to worship at his feet.
They have given Donald Trump their souls.
Cha
(297,981 posts)to lose a good friend.. no matter how it happens.
And, to lose one to brainwashing is so sad.
marybourg
(12,648 posts)It could never happen here,
Delarage
(2,186 posts)Sounds like his inner racist/anti-semitic elements were exposed. A lot of people were good at hiding that until 45 came along and freed them all.
My sister became a Trumper--unbelievably--but seems to be more Ayn Randian as far as I can tell before our conversations become arguments. Those folks worship him because he's "rich" supposedly, which makes him naturally superior to all other beings. That and a healthy dose of RW radio and Faux News did her in
Ilsa
(61,710 posts)eventually under other circumstances. I had a friendship break up eight years ago, but it wasn't about Mittens vs Obama. It was about her changing values, her harsh tone in telling me how to parent, etc.
irisblue
(33,052 posts)Have you seen this movie?
Sounds like there is alot of overlap in this and your cult friend.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)This person (a natural parasite) is feeding on your emotional reactions. No contact and maximum distance are what I recommend. Let this person go. Protect yourself. The eventual separation will only be worse the longer you prolong the relationship.
-Laelth
NRaleighLiberal
(60,034 posts)As far as I know, I've jettisoned all right wing friends and family. And I am OK with that, their view is so loathsome to me.
tulipsandroses
(5,131 posts)Yes it does hurt. After all, its still losing someone that has been a part of your life. This too shall pass.
My friend would send me crazy conspiracy videos and stuff he found on youtube and facebook and we would have frequent arguments. He's black by the way, so it wasn't really about Trump- although in the beginning he did not object to trump - since he had anti govt streak and saw trump as anti govt. I think the internet can be so dangerous for some folks. They get sucked into these websites and some of these personalities. On these nazi sites he visits, your friend was probably groomed very well. I look at these sites, the same way I see gang recruitment, very easy for someone who is already disaffected, low self esteem, angry about their lot in life to fall prey to this kind of thinking.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,974 posts)as ISIS.
SiliconValley_Dem
(1,656 posts)LuckyCharms
(17,472 posts)perhaps you have not been here long enough to know that is usually not a wise course of action to take.
Of course, I could have taken your response wrong. Maybe that's it.
FM123
(10,054 posts)Not a cool story. A very sad story, to lose a friend in that way.
MontanaMama
(23,366 posts)What? Clarify or delete. Very disrespectful comment.
obamanut2012
(26,181 posts)implying the OP is a liar
lostnfound
(16,196 posts)Like they hit a trip wire and are just exploding..
yonder
(9,685 posts)It's tough to lose a friend but don't look back. Not now anyway because it is just too dangerous for you and your family. Try to keep a door open though. Whatever got to him just might release him once he sees his folly in a month or so.
hurple
(1,307 posts)My parents chose Trump over me.
About a month or so prior to Thanksgiving 2019, I posted a tirade about the kids in cages thing, pointing out that I now have 4 grandkids, all between 1 and 3, and thinking of them, alone, locked in cages, was heartbreaking. I ended by saying that if you support trump and you support that policy that you are an inhuman monster who should be lined up against a wall and handed a blindfold.
My mom went off asking how I could say something like that about her and my father, then promptly cancelled coming to visit for Xmas.
And I've not seen or heard from either of them since.
MLAA
(17,368 posts)💖💖💖💖
This really hit me. Im so sorry you had this happen. Something about how you so concisely boiled down what is such an obviously huge and painful experience just speaks volumes about how slippery the slope of democracy has become. {{Hugs}} from an internet stranger.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Trump is this generation version of Jim Jones. The United States right now is his Jonestown. Jonestown ended horribly. We need to be prepared:
Rolling Stone: Jonestown: 13 Things You Should Know About Cult Massacre
Demonaut
(8,937 posts)Rhiannon12866
(206,676 posts)Though I have to admit that I don't understand those who feel this way since the news about the coronavirus is everywhere, as well as the shocking death rates - and not just in this country, but throughout the world.
live love laugh
(13,199 posts)MustLoveBeagles
(11,675 posts)I'm sorry that you were hurt by this.
struggle4progress
(118,379 posts)quickesst
(6,283 posts)Losing him as a friend sounds more like you dodged a bullet.
SlogginThroughIt
(1,977 posts)Sorry but I stopped reading when you said he identified as a libertarian.
Midnight Writer
(21,845 posts)PatSeg
(47,733 posts)It makes you wonder if you ever really know someone, even family.
sanatanadharma
(3,750 posts)From baby to crone, the body changes, desires change, feelings change, memories change, certainly we change our minds.
But what stays constant and knows (witnesses) these changes?
I can' t see my self and also can't see myself being no more than the story of the body or personality; both change.
Family, friends, fun and fear all change and end. Mourning is both appropriate and inappropriate.
In loss there is sadness. In refusal to lose there is fear.
Where do we cross the calle* from compassion for other to compassion for self?
*street
PatSeg
(47,733 posts)we all change, often in unexpected ways, but there are many today who are changed like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, as if they have become totally different people. Kind of reminiscent of The Body Snatchers. I suppose there may be something in their wiring that might make them more susceptible to brain washing and group think, something that might not have been evident years ago. Still it is disturbing, especially if it someone you have known most, if not all of your life.
calimary
(81,577 posts)Sorry to hear there are others who've gone over to the DEEPLY Dark side. I wouldn't expect that of an old hippie.
And, hey, ChoppinBroccoli, I'm so sorry about your former friend. All my sympathies.
Virtual
Sucha NastyWoman
(2,759 posts)And certainly not MAGAt or Libertarian.
Those guys were never really Hippies, they just wanted the sex and drugs back then. Philosophically they were never really on board.
dchill
(38,606 posts)PatSeg
(47,733 posts)how profoundly some people have changed in the past four years. Like your friend, many of them were reasonable, in some cases even liberal before Trump. It is like some kind of mass insanity.
Poiuyt
(18,133 posts)We go waaay back, and I've always known that he was a conservative. But this covid thing has sent him over the edge. We've always just avoided talking about politics or religion, but he's been intolerable lately. I don't know if I want to be friends with someone whose values are so different from mine.
Response to ChoppinBroccoli (Original post)
morillon This message was self-deleted by its author.
Dan
(3,586 posts)A lot of people are going to have a hard time looking in the mirror when more and more information about Trump is finally exposed.
The total number of Americans that will have died and been exposed to COVID-19 - and his failure to act because of his concern about being re-elected.
Putin's interference in our 2016 election and Trump's (and family) knowledge and involvement in undermining our democracy;
His financial records;
The reasons for his ties to Putin;
The corruption and how it has benefitted him and his family;
The Rape allegations that finally get to court and the truth is revealed;
What were his ties to Epstein and the question about allegation about the minor girl that was raped by Trump and Epstein;
His willingness to sell out America and his willingness to do that because of his need for Putin's approval;
When the truth is finally exposed and there is no denying what he has done in our name - then, what will they say and how will they justify their denial of truth.
When that day comes - and when you look into their eyes and see the shame, you probably won't feel a sense of vindication but sadness. Sadness of what has been loss and can never be recovered.
ChoppinBroccoli
(3,786 posts)But the sad part is, I don't think that will happen. After he gets his ass beat in November, they won't just go back to normal. Then they'll be "scorned" and become bitter. If anything, I think they'll become WORSE.
And given their mind-boggling ability to dismiss facts (i.e. everyone is lying except for Daddy Trump), I really don't think that when the real truth about Trump eventually comes out, they'll be embarrassed at all. They'll just deny that all THAT is true too.
I wish I could tell him to take a step back and really examine the things he thinks and if they square with common sense, but as I said, he's too far gone. He makes up his reality to fit his Trump fanboyism. Just in our short text conversation tonight, I saw so many blatantly and PROVABLY false statements that he genuinely BELIEVED that I couldn't possibly list them all. I mean, it really was EVERYONE is lying except Trump.
Dan
(3,586 posts)Do you think that a lot of this is because some White people fear a multiracial society where power might be shared?
It appears to me that a lot of White people, their identity as a White person is very important - and the privileges that go with that identity. I could be wrong, tho.
I find it hard to believe that people are afraid of someone else's sexual identity - doesn't make sense, because it is not contagious.
I find it hard to believe that people are afraid that some person might choose to have an abortion - because I suspect that if you tried to tell them what they could or could not do with their body, they would find that unacceptable.
I was surprised (and should not have been) to discover that my religious friend (Trump supporter) believes that only her religion is true and doesn't accept other religions as being valid.
...I am glad that I am old, because I really don't want to re-live the anger, hate, violence and killings that marked the late 1950's thru 1970's. But as I look back, we didn't so much try to make things better for all, but rather closed our eyes, lied to each other and kicked the can (of problems) to our children/grandchildren to deal with...
wnylib
(21,756 posts)that he was a Libertarian, I wasn't too surprised that he fell for Trump. Most Libertarians I've known have a self-centered, somewhat anti-social and rebellion-for-its-own-sake streak in them. Fairly easy for them to get drawn into the Trump cult.
yonder
(9,685 posts)Let's get that on a bumper sticker.
Hulk
(6,699 posts)I drove up to Portland Oregon from Central Mexico, and I decided to stop at Wichita Kansas and visit an old friend that I've known for decades. We raised our families together. We went to church together. We coached basketball together in CYO. Hell, we even had our divorces about the same time.
I haven't seen my old friend for probably 15 years or more. I knew he was a marine veteran, and I knew he was also a W supporter. I wasn't about to bring up politics on my visit.
After visiting him for several hours, all of a sudden out of nowhere he became angry and brought up black lives matter. It was like he was throwing it in my face, and I don't think I even said anything to bring it on. But after a 15 to 20-minute rant he started calling me a goddamn liberal, and all I did was try to persuade him to drop politics so we could get back to talking about old times... but he had no interest in doing so. An hour later I said goodbye, and even then he was angry and hostile and aggressive with his support for this pig and his administration, and he wanted to lay the blame on me for all the propaganda he had heard about BLM and the Progressive Movement.
I felt sad that I lost a friend, but I honestly feel that he is mentally ill and is suffering from an abundance of propaganda and misinformation and hatred. It's sad. I'm going to go on as though it never happened and I have my old friend of 30 years or more. I've never seen anything like that before. Anger, hatred, and the frustration of someone truly afraid that someone was attacking the America he loved. Tragic.
yonder
(9,685 posts)Silent3
(15,429 posts)...Trump is the one to inspire this insanity in others.
I look at Trump, and immediately seem a loathsome ignorant narcissist with a proven track record of sleazy behavior and glaringly obvious aspirations to tyranny.
What can there possibly be in that that appeals to people like your former friend, and sadly so many others, that makes them shed all decency and sanity to live in the ugly little world he spins for them?
SunSeeker
(51,794 posts)Trump validates his bigotry.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)and once they're in there's no getting out. Thanks for breaking it down.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,500 posts)Divide and conquer America and buy up the pieces at fire sale prices, then rent it back to us.
Those people are destroying the emotional and communal structures of friends, families, communities and nations around the world with the goal of making every man and woman an island with no physical or emotional ties. Under those conditions, we become very easy to control.
There's an old-fashioned saying that "gentlemen never discuss sex, religion or politics" and it rings true today if we want to maintain healthy social relationships.
I hope you recover from this loss of your bond of friendship by finding both a new friend and other outlets for emotional support (music, art, nature, etc.).
Did he reveal what right-wing media sources were responsible for his brainwashing?
Thank you for sharing your story.
KY...........
SunSeeker
(51,794 posts)He started out as a Libertarian then got swept up in online racist, sexist hate, guns and various "globalist" conspiracy theories. I can't even talk to him any more. He lives a sad, lonely miserable life, interacting only with people who agree with him. And of course he is a Trump supporter.
TeamPooka
(24,290 posts)KT2000
(20,603 posts)I sent him some info about where some of the crazy RW memes were coming from and that was it for him. No more contact.
eShirl
(18,507 posts)Kablooie
(18,645 posts)A few days ago a guy who has a phd in physics had colleague who has the same. His friend completely fell into the Trump maelstrom.
How and why do intelligent people get sucked up in this insane, unreasonable, stupid world?
Stupid people, I kind of get it. They are told some bullshit and don't know any better so they believe it.
But how do people of high intelligence fall for this snake oil crap?
I've heard all kinds of explanations and reasons but nothing I've heard really explains it.
Why do people go so blind?
I'm mystified and bothered by this great unknown.
ProfessorGAC
(65,370 posts)...it's likely you saw things that weren't there, because you wanted to hope for the best.
The fact that he was a libertarian already suggests he was a selfish, two dimensional thinking person.
Recent events just made it harder to cover up the philosophical differences and harder for him to hide his true tendencies.
This could have turned toxic, and you'll likely be better off.
Kaleva
(36,394 posts)Your description jogs a memory but I am most likely wrong as that was 16 years ago.
ChoppinBroccoli
(3,786 posts)We started off as just two guys who liked to go to BW3's to watch Cowboys games. We ended up becoming good friends, started working out together in 2012 or so (which meant we were hanging out literally every day). We even took 3 trips down to Dallas together to watch games (in 2013, 2014, and 2015). We got along very well and there was very little we disagreed about.
I think what started things downhill was he read some book that he loved that essentially advocated that the world is too crowded and we need to "cull the herd." He became obsessed that overpopulation and "illegal immigration" was going to kill us all. I think that's also why he fell in love with Trump. And then he just became angry and hard to deal with.
Apparently, all he did in Michigan was surround himself with like-minded Trump nuts, and now I barely recognize the friend I knew years ago.
bullwinkle428
(20,631 posts)of thirst in a desert.
Norbert
(6,043 posts)He seemed to switch over to the dark side in the matter of a few weeks.
He hasn't talked to me in almost 8 years now.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)or should be.
We know your friend didn't get a personality transplant. Personality change due to brain damage is apparently possible. But most likely he always was wired strongly conservative by nature and maturing and "nurture" have enhanced those traits. I remember back in the 1970s-90s when I could view political conservatism as only one facet of many in a person and like, and even admire, them for others; today's version now seems to infect most parts of life.
And the libertarianism could be a clue, rather than something lost. Political conservatives, especially today's version, don't have an intellectually valid ideology to justify their attitudes. So as conservative reactionaries became more and more extreme as a group, and blatant about it, some adopted the libertarian label, poor as it is for the role, as an ideological dressing. Especially those sophisticated enough to understand the need to be able to claim intellectual underpinnings.
Altruism-free libertarianism, after all, provides a rationale for being really, really "mean" to others. Its prime moral principle is individual freedom, even and notably making a virtue out allowing others to suffer and die rather than infringe on it. Since most conservatives are altruistic by nature, though, libertarianism can actually provide a bridge to trumpian proto-fascism, which sees virtue in the opposite: subjugating the individual to the good of him and the party/state/economy. Both advocate the majority just letting people die who could be saved, only the role of government different.
Atticus
(15,124 posts)rejoice that this Trumpist POS will no longer contact you.
IMHO, you should have quoted Dick Cheney to him about a year ago: "GO FUCK YOURSELF!"
electric_blue68
(15,012 posts)... themselves to be something that the OP didn't think they were. That they were aligned in certain important values.
To have that turned upside down can be very upsetting! Breaking with family and friends you care about is painful, even if a person like OP knows it's now best for them to do that.
electric_blue68
(15,012 posts)(and sort of echoed by a poster here)
... Libertarians are Republicans that want drugs and sex.
ChoppinBroccoli
(3,786 posts)After meeting several self-proclaimed "Libertarians" back in the '90s, I determined that Libertarians were nothing more than Republicans who liked to smoke weed.
In my experience, almost everyone who so much as LEANS Republican has serious hang-ups about sex, though, so I'd have to hear Thom explain the sex part.
electric_blue68
(15,012 posts)Last edited Fri Jul 17, 2020, 05:23 PM - Edit history (1)
this scourge of rascism, sexism, ubergreed, xenophobia etc.
It's better off not to be in contact, but oh, it hurts!