Legal experts have figured out a way for Roger Stone to go back to prison

[soothsayer]

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/07/legal-experts-have-figured-out-a-way-for-roger-stone-to-go-back-to-prison/

Snip

Roger Stone, a veteran GOP operative and long-time ally of President Donald Trump, was facing a federal prison sentence when, on Friday, the news broke that Trump had commuted his sentence. Stone, who was convicted on charges including obstruction of Congress and witness tampering, will not be spending three years and four months in federal prison.

But Trump cannot issue presidential pardons at the state level, and legal experts Gerald Lefcourt and Robert C. Gottlieb argue that Stone should be prosecuted in New York State....

“Bringing a new case against Stone is possible thanks to Gov. Andrew Cuomo and the New York legislature for Assembly Bill 6653,” Lefcourt and Gottlieb explain. “Signed into law last October, AB6653 enables New York district attorneys to prosecute what effectively amounts to certain friends and family of any president who pardoned them for federal convictions. Among the people who can be prosecuted are associates with information relevant to a civil or criminal investigation of the president. That would be Roger Stone.”

Lefcourt and Gottlieb note that when Stone was prosecuted, he was accused of threatening a witness: Randy Credico — and Credico lives in New York.

[Ninga]

1. Please, please, please, please!

[Bleacher Creature]

6. I'll see your four pleases and raise you four more!

[Ninga]

9. I'm desperate. For any crumb. So much has fallen into the black hole of loss. Just one thing. Please

[Scarsdale]

17. This little toady is a self-proclaimed

"dirty trickster". What kind of career is THAT? Where does his money come from, I wonder? Vile little s-o-b-needs to be behind bars. He would look "good" in orange, or even wide black and white stripes.He has escaped prosecution for far too many years.

[musclecar6]

2. Excellent

If it works. It would be nice to see Trump not be successful being the ultimate political/legal weasel that he is.

[SheltieLover]

3. K&R!

[Nevilledog]

4. And no hurdle with Double jeopardy due to Gamble decision.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

5. I'm sure this is just going to go away. Hopefully he suffers a slow painful death. Do I

feel bad saying that? Yes, part of me. But this fucking asshole, with his life long scumbagery, has contributed to incalculable death and destruction. He might find his utter lack of humanity hilarious. But I don't. Fuck 'im and the press who coddled him for years.

[gopiscrap]

8. well said

[Arkansas Granny]

7. Go back to prison? I wasn't aware that he had been in prison. Did I miss something?

[Shrike47]

13. You're right. He was in jail for a while, but not prison. His conviction was commuted before prison.

[Chainfire]

10. Really!

Shove Stone straight up Donald Trump's derriere.

[Dios Mio]

11. I think we should resort to voodoo at this point.

[fleur-de-lisa]

12. So we can expect Stone to do some really evil shit to make sure Dump steals the election.

[patphil]

14. Correct me if I'm wrong, but...

Stone was convicted of lying.
He was not convicted of his actions that lead up to his lies.
Therefore, he could still be convicted of the things he did, as opposed to the things he said.

Is that true?

[Fiendish Thingy]

19. He was convicted of one count of witness tampering as well

Not sure that could be charged at state level

[DeSmet]

15. Would double jeopardy

Come into play here?

[soothsayer]

18. If witness tampering is different than witness intimidation

Then maybe it’s ok?

[NutmegYankee]

20. No. Separate sovereigns doctrine.

Under this doctrine, the prohibition on double jeopardy does not prevent dual prosecution when the prosecutions are each by separate sovereigns. Thus, a criminal defendant can be prosecuted by a state court and then by a federal court (or the other way around). A criminal defendant may be tried by two separate state courts.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/separate_sovereigns_doctrine

[soothsayer]

23. Even better

[jmowreader]

46. Not at all

Under the separate sovereigns doctrine, if you do something that's illegal at both federal and state levels, you can be charged with both.

Double jeopardy...that's where you get found innocent in one Idaho court so the prosecutor takes you to another Idaho court and refiles charges on the same offense because he doesn't want the fact that you didn't do what you were charged with to fuck up his chances for reelection.

[CaptainTruth]

16. There was also a question about exactly what Trump commuted.

Stone's sentence included jail time, a fine, & probation.

If Trump only commuted the jail time, the fine & probation would still be in effect & Stone could be sent to jail for violating his probation, which is a different crime than the 7 (I think) he was convicted of.

I believe that's why the judge wanted to see the text of the commutation.

[neohippie]

21. unfortunately

in raising the question, that gave Barr and the DOJ the opportunity after being tipped off about the judges plan to pursue a course of action, that the executive order which was probably never drafted to be written in a way that commuted, not only the jail sentence but his fines and probation too

[Volaris]

25. Yeah, but it would sure as hell be par for the course at this point,

For the whole team to be so utterly incompetent that they cant even ratfuck this the right way...

[BComplex]

32. That was my first reaction to all that. Even with a heads-up, they've screwed up everything they've

touched so far...just looking for them to screw this up, too.

[maxsolomon]

22. Just face it. Stone won't go to prison.

Even if he can't overturn his conviction in the courts prior to Trump leaving office, he'll simply be pardoned.

Justice has been denied, thanks to our dumb Constitution. The same one that put this Con Man in office, the same one that stacked the Federal Courts by giving rural states outsized power in the Senate.

Trump and his enablers will never pay for their frauds & lies to your (or my) satisfaction.

[neohippie]

29. Not necessarily

Trump doesn't have the power to pardon for charges brought up by the states, but his DOJ can just keep interfering with the federal prosecutors, until he no longer controls the DOJ.

[maxsolomon]

30. Sure, it's possible that NY will nail Stone to the wall.

I'm not sure what for though.

[neohippie]

50. Witness intimidation

The witness that Stone was intimidating lives in New York State, I believe that is in the article posted by OP

[Pluvious]

24. And now he could only flee to a few countries... n/t

[SayItLoud]

26. Didn't ManaFART skate past NY prosecution? NT

[StarfishSaver]

52. The state probably declined to go after him because the federal government did

That's not unusual - they would have just had to wait in line.

[kimbutgar]

27. Go get him now!

[marble falls]

28. Roger is not home free yet.

[Aristus]

31. I love the fact that the 'states rights' assholes have pinned their hopes to the Federal government

for staying out of prison.

And it's states' rights that is going to send them up the river...

[erronis]

35. Yup. Speaking out of both sides of their alimentary canal. Depends

on what you want and how to get it.

Nothing right or wrong, legal or illegal. Just hot air and opinions.

And the frothy right is really good at playing those tunes.

[Bondor]

33. can Biden rescind the commutation? what about a pardon?

I read somewhere that a future president can rescind the commutation. Is that true? Sure it would upset the Republicans, but we cannot let that stop us.

[AlexSFCA]

34. impossible. Constitution only allows for commutation and rescinding

[erronis]

36. I don't think so. But a future president and new DOJ can bring new criminal charges that wouldn't be

under this commutation.

Even a pardon can't remove charges against future crimes. And knowing trump and stone and the cohort, they won't be able to stop committing more crimes. It's just their nature.

[lunatica]

37. Stick the knife in and just keep twisting

No one deserves it more than Trump and company.

[ThoughtCriminal]

38. I would think he could be called to testify again

Which could create a difficult legal situation for him. He cannot commit perjury again and count on another pardon after Trump is gone. Nor could claim the 5th since he cannot be prosecuted for crimes that he was received a pardon.

His only real option would be to >gasp< tell the truth.

[TomSlick]

39. I'm skeptical.

What would be the State charge? I understand the separate sovereign proposition but the appearance of double jeopardy could trouble a judge. An argument can also be made that it is an unconstitutional end-run against the Presidential clemency power.

I'll be surprised to see a charge filed.

[soothsayer]

40. Witness intimidation, they said

[TomSlick]

41. Intimidating witnesses in a federal prosecution or before Congress?

Still sounds like a federal case.

Understand that my parents named me Thomas in a moment of prophetic insight. I'm a consistent skeptic.

[soothsayer]

44. Well they said this

Lefcourt and Gottlieb note that when Stone was prosecuted, he was accused of threatening a witness: Randy Credico — and Credico lives in New York.

[TomSlick]

45. Perhaps he could be charged with the simple threat - not witness intimidation.

[warmfeet]

42. A nation of laws,

or a nation of men. We shall see.

[uponit7771]

43. +1

[REK72]

47. Can NY use their new law as announced?

The article says that legal action "... enables New York district attorneys to prosecute what effectively amounts to certain friends and family of any president who pardoned them for federal convictions... ".
Does the law permit prosecution for sentence commutation instead of pardoning?

[wnylib]

48. It will be challenged and SCOTUS

could rule in Stone's favor.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

49. The trial judge wants the written evidence of the commutation.

This is a good idea. I think she has to have the written document by Thursday morning, after which time she will have a hearing. You can't litigate by tweeting, but Donnie doesn't know that. I'm sure that these minions of Trump have some "novel legal theories" to put it politely. Impolitely, it's "twilight zone" or "batshit crazy" theories.

[StarfishSaver]

51. They're right, but this isn't a big new idea

It's no secret that he can be prosecuted under state law.