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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCan Judge Jackson refuse to accept Roger Stone's commutation?
Seeing this idea starting to bubble... Trump is co-conspirator #1. Jackson knows his (still secret) identity plus she knows it's not legally permissible for Trump to commute or pardon co-conspirators.
We've long assumed Trump would get away with this illegal action because Barr won't interfere but what if Judge Jackson weighs in?
Link to tweet
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Nevilledog
(51,268 posts)Nevilledog
(51,268 posts)Link to tweet
?s=20
Arazi
(6,829 posts)I just hadn't read Pelosi's comments
Alex4Martinez
(2,199 posts)But I feel confident that there's a list of crimes that can still be prosecuted on his sorry ass.
Nevilledog
(51,268 posts)Alex4Martinez
(2,199 posts)FoxNewsSucks
(10,435 posts)to be immediately signed by the president.
Right.
NCjack
(10,279 posts)Arazi
(6,829 posts)DeminPennswoods
(15,294 posts)that the president is not above the law.
Nevilledog
(51,268 posts)Arazi
(6,829 posts)Of Trumps good faith rationale (we know he doesn't have one), presumably this would wend its way thru the courts where we now know how firmly this SCOTUS regards DTs position vis a vis the law.
Presumably it would be Judge Jackson, in the same role as Judge Sullivan in Flynn's case, who would have standing.
Nevilledog
(51,268 posts)Trumps Most Brazen Reprieve Yet
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/07/trump-commutes-roger-stone-sentence/606877/
A commuted sentence replaces the original, court-ordered sentence. A controversial example is ex-President Bushs 2007 decision to commute Scooter Libbys 30-month prison sentence.
Compared to Pardons
Like the pardoning power, the power to commute sentences is in the executives discretion; neither the legislative nor judicial branch can interfere with or override that power.
Although commutation is considered part of the pardoning power, there are significant differences between commutations and pardons.
Forgiveness vs. reduction. Pardons forgive the defendant for the crime, while commutation only reduces the sentence.
Acceptance. Prisoners must accept pardons, but some states allow commuted sentences without the prisoners consent.
Civil rights. Unlike pardons, commutations dont restore the civil rights lost with the criminal conviction.
Basis. Prisoners usually earn commutation through good behavior, while pardons can be issued for a wide variety of reasons, some of which may be purely political.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/commutation-sentence.html
Add I suspected, the Judge has no avenue to undo a commutation. Flynn's case involves a motion to dismiss which requires the Judge to affirmatively accept it.
Looks like Stone is free to still challenge the conviction. And the only remedy available is to impeach trump.
George II
(67,782 posts)....at the time probably has standing.
Nevilledog
(51,268 posts)From my reading, Judge Jackson has zero power.
I do think there's lots else out there on Stone.
Nevilledog
(51,268 posts)The commutation does leave the conviction on Stone's record. He will no doubt be appealing the conviction even though his sentence has been commuted.
mn9driver
(4,429 posts)Is in the case of impeachment. Trump isnt being impeached for Stones crimes and Stone holds no office to be impeached, so it seems unlikely that even a corrupt commutation can be blocked. JMO, of course.
But, since it is not an actual pardon, there is no reason why further charges cannot be brought against Stone; as long as they are different from the ones he was convicted and sentenced for. Somehow I doubt that Barr will do that.
DetroitLegalBeagle
(1,927 posts)The power is found in the Constitution and its only restriction is that it can't be used for impeachment cases. The only way this changes is through an Amendment or via a SCOTUS decision that interprets it differently.
Progressive dog
(6,928 posts)Judges obey and understand the law, they don't fight corruption with lawless behavior.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Call him to a GJ Grant him immunity and compel him to testify
1) he refuses and goes to jail under contempt. (S McDougal spent about 1 year in jail under Starr)
2) He lies and is prosecuted on new charges of perjury and obstruction
Nevilledog
(51,268 posts)grantcart
(53,061 posts)Was that with 2 grand juries?
I know that it expires at the end of the Grand Jury term, wasn't sure if they brought her in a second time
Nevilledog
(51,268 posts)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_McDougal
Prison
From September 9, 1996 to March 6, 1998, McDougal spent the maximum possible 18 months' imprisonment for civil contempt, including eight months in solitary confinement, and she was subjected to "diesel therapy," described by McDougal as "the practice of hauling defendants around the country and placing them in different jails along the way."[12][13]
McDougal was shuffled from Arkansas to "Los Angeles to the Oklahoma City transfer center, and then on to the Pulaski County Jail in Little Rock, Arkansas".[14]
Following her release on March 7, 1998 for civil contempt of court, McDougal began serving the two-year sentence for her 1996 conviction.[15]
Soon afterward, the Independent Counsel indicted McDougal on criminal charges of contempt of court and obstruction of justice. After serving four months on the Whitewater fraud conviction, she was released for medical reasons.[16]
After McDougal's release, her embezzlement trial in California began. In 1998, McDougal was acquitted on all 12 counts.[17]
A suit in 1999 against Nancy Mehta for malicious prosecution was settled out of court.[18]
McDougal's trial for criminal charges of contempt of court and obstruction of justice began in March 1999. The jury deadlocked 75 in her favor on the charge of contempt of court and found her not guilty on the charge of obstruction of justice.[19] In 2001, in the final hours of his presidency, President Clinton granted McDougal a full presidential pardon.[20]
onenote
(42,821 posts)is unreviewable by the judicial branch. Congress could seek to impeach claiming an abuse of power, but that isn't going anywhere.
bucolic_frolic
(43,445 posts)This is uncharted territory, but who has standing to challenge it? All citizens for the rule of law class action?
Interesting Americans are thinking this through and not taking it lying down.
paleotn
(18,003 posts)NYC Liberal
(20,138 posts)in cases of federal crimes.
Now, that doesnt mean that the president can, for example, accept a bribe in exchange for a pardon. That would be illegal and prosecutable but the pardon would still be valid.
kst
(69 posts)"They don't need to move on this legislation, it's already in the Constitution that you can't pardon a co-conspirator!"
There is no such wording in the Constitution.
"... and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."
(That last clause just means that a President cannot overturn a Senate conviction by granting a pardon.)
former9thward
(32,121 posts)And legislation can't stop commutations or pardons. Somebody played hooky in law school.