Colleges Rescinding Admissions Offers as Racist Social Media Posts Emerge

[BigmanPigman]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/02/us/racism-social-media-college-admissions.html

"Amid a national accounting over racism after George Floyd’s death, at least a dozen schools have revoked admissions offers to incoming students".

"Amid a national accounting over entrenched and systemic racism after Mr. Floyd’s death in police custody on Memorial Day, at least a dozen schools have rescinded admissions offers to incoming students over instances of racism that circulated widely online, often after outraged students and university alumni demanded swift action."
"While private schools are not bound by the First Amendment and its protection of speech, public universities, as government institutions, must contend with the potential legal consequences of penalizing students for racist or sexist language, said Clay Calvert, the director of the Marion B. Brechner First Amendment Project at the University of Florida."

"But the First Amendment does not guarantee the right to be admitted to a state university with an admissions process that considers “the whole person,” beyond just grades and test scores, Mr. Calvert said."

[dalton99a]

1. Good.

[tulipsandroses]

2. Consequences.

I watched a vile video made by two white kids recently - they both got expelled. Instead of being contrite. The young "lady" took to social media to rant about how she wasn't racist and black people were now ruining her life after complaining to her school and the school expelling her. Still had not learned. No responsibility for her own actions.Nope, Not even realizing that she was digging a deeper hole for herself by making the second video Living in privileged bubble.

[BigmanPigman]

8. She needs to be educated

on many issues before she should even be considered by any college. As Forrest Gump said, "Stupid is as stupid does".

[Nevilledog]

3. I'm torn on this.

We're talking about young adults. Young adults do really stupid things, but keeping someone from college has the potential to alter their entire lives, and not for the better.

It reminds me of all the times I argued with prosecutors about negotiating a non-felony plea for my young clients. Give them a chance to straighten up, put them on probation, require programming if necessary. And if they are successful at completing these tasks, withdraw the felony. (AZ law has offenses that can be undesignated convictions). These kids could end up with misdemeanors or dismissals, but they had to earn it.

I'd rather see colleges come up with a way that these kids, making dumbass choices, can learn from their mistakes and earn readmission.

Let it be a teachable moment instead of a complete loss of opportunity.

[LovingA2andMI]

4. Okay....

Karen....

[Nevilledog]

6. I had 27 years of watching young people's lives be destroyed for stupidity.

If you're okay with turning your back on our youth, that's on you.

I'd prefer to give them a chance for redemption. They either grow from the experience or they don't. The ones that don't, the path they go down was one they chose.

Nothing I said in my post was deserving of being called "Karen".

[tulipsandroses]

17. A lot of times- when I've seen these issues come up - they tend to be with more "elite" schools

Not always. But based on cases that I have seen- They tend to be with elite, or private institutions. I don't think that these young folks are going to be denied an education. Just denied their first choice of school. I'm pretty sure they can get an education somewhere else. You won't be able to go Harvard, Princeton,Brown, Xavier, etc. However you can go to Georgia State University or perhaps spend 2 years at a community college maturing and then transferring to your first choice after you have demonstrated that you have changed.

[Nevilledog]

20. And if that's true they won't do the work to get readmitted.

[madeup64]

32. Your post certainly wasn't a Karen post

I'll admit I was on the "too bad for them" side but you make a great point with your post. I was lucky enough to benefit from pleading to a class 6 undesignated designation for being a dumbass at 18. This was Maricopa Cty.
Growing up in rural AZ most of my elementary years unsurprisingly meant being raised with racism as being a normal part of being white. I'm so glad I didn't have social media because I would have said so many immature, racist and ignorant things in my youth.
Your post is one of the reasons I'm glad I'm a liberal/progressive. Pointing out how this isn't very in keeping with liberal belief in second chances for those who make bad choices.
Thanks for your time working with (I assume) the public defenders office.

[Nevilledog]

49. I support 2nd chances

Glad you got the opportunity to "grow up".

Spent first three years at Maricopa County Public Defender's Office.

Rest of my career in private practice with some indigent defense work.

[Hortensis]

62. Agree with your sentiment. It's in society's interest that

genuinely bad eggs don't make good. But mere rebelliousness, stupidity and bizarre misjudgment are almost a definition of adolescence, especially when communicating with friends. The folk at these colleges know all this and hopefully are all trying to do what's right and appropriate in each case.

But they and we know almost all of these will go to college, that second chance, just not these colleges. After all, there are plenty that exist just for those who have difficulty getting in elsewhere.

[ananda]

41. Agree.

I think you make a good point about youth.

And you never said there should be no consequences.

[nsd]

11. Ughhh ...

Very thoughtful and useful addition to this conversation. So glad you decided to chime in.

[LovingA2andMI]

39. You're Welcome....

n/t

[Dorian Gray]

46. I think that's dismissive of a reality

I was a white girl brought up in a mostly white suburb. I had relatively liberal ideas re: race when I was young, but no exposure and had unhealthy biases. Without college and a chance to meet many people with different backgrounds, I would have remained just as insular. After college, I moved through three major metropolitan areas around the world. My life experience has led me to further grow. At 49, I'm still growing and learning.

We need to open minds and offer growth opportunities.

Having said that, if someone wrote something offensive on social media, I get why univities would rescind an offer. You don't want to endanger lives. But most kids (of all backgrounds) have very myopic views based upon their life experience, and growing and expanding and learning should be encouraged if that person isn't a danger to others. (I do have that qualification, though. If that person can harm others with their words/actions, all bets are off.)

[Skittles]

5. I tend to agree

unless it is ongoing, active racism, this kind of policy does not allow for anyone to change

*AND I AIN'T NO KAREN*

[Nevilledog]

7. Right?

[Skittles]

9. it's just that

I know young people can be rehabilitated - yes they can. And I have seen where all too often, racism in young folk is part of a pattern of the racist, abusive environment they grew up in.

[Nevilledog]

10. Exactly..... Give them the opportunity.

What they do with it is on them.

[nocoincidences]

12. How many teachable moments

do AA kids get? Nah, they get shot with toy guns in their hands.

How many chances do you think privileged white snowflakes should get, to take a place at a university that they really don't seem to deserve?

Quit giving these useless little POS extra opportunities.

That's white privilege. Give them the opportunity to learn from their mistakes. That would be a teachable moment.

[Nevilledog]

15. Okay. You support punitive action.

You certainly have the absolute right to your opinion. Mine happens to differ.

[LovingA2andMI]

40. This...

TRUTH!!!

[ananda]

42. Or just give Black kids the same opportunities.

Nt

[JI7]

43. White people don't want to give black kids same opportunities

[SKKY]

13. Concur. I'm equally torn as well. I think we're are on a very, very slippery...

...slope. Unless it is a threat, defamation, slander, or libel, we still do have the right of free speech, however offensive that speech may be.

[rpannier]

29. I agree with this, "...we still do have the right of free speech..."

However, I would argue that free speech does not entitle someone to attend a university of their choosing
Universities should be allowed to do decide who they feel is right for their school
Why should they be the grounds for hoping the person will reform?
They can do that at home, or a community college, show they've matured and reapply

[SKKY]

47. So, here is the other side of this argument...

...a University will not admit students who are Atheist, Pro-Choice, or even for just being a Democrat. I just think this is a slippery slope we don't really want to start down. I don't think we want to even get close to it.

[Hortensis]

63. Universities have always examined the character of students.

This is very appropriate given that they have always graduated people TO go on to take positions of authority and influence.

A good rule for all of us is "first do no harm." And that absolutely goes for institutions of higher living choosing those it will loose upon society. Imo, they need to do a much better job of evaluating character, not worse. Let the dogs go to state colleges or private campuses designed for dogs. Yale produced that corrupt scum Brett Kavanaugh. Duke educated Stephen Miller, who fellow high school and college students thought was a dangerous extremist. Almost every one of those corrupt dogs in the RW leadership graduated from prestigious schools that are now embarrassed to be caught having produced them.

As for freedom of speech, this in no way gags these would-be students. They are still free as any of us to speak their minds.

[Phoenix61]

16. This doesn't keep them from college.

It keeps them from highly competitive colleges. I seriously doubt a one-off instance of severe stupidity would keep them from a Community College. (No slur on Community Colleges intended. I love the ones I’ve attended.) There should be a consequence for their actions and losing a spot at their first choice college seems fair.

[tulipsandroses]

18. Exactly, that's what I just posted before reading your post

They can stay home ( everybody is staying home now anyway with online classes) and go to their local state university.
There has to be consequences. People have to know this type of behavior is completely unacceptable. And you don't just get to say sorry when you are caught.

[Nevilledog]

22. I never suggested that an apology was sufficient.

Requirements for readmission are limited only to our creativity. Give them delayed admission upon completion of university chosen, and verified, community service. We have panels consisting of people impacted by drunk drivers.... Create one that deals with the impact of racism. And so on.

A simple apology would never be enough.

[tulipsandroses]

25. My comment about apologizing wasn't in reference to anything that you said. Quite often,

when caught, they apologize. Its meaningless. Case in point, the young lady I referenced. When the school got wind of the video she posted and started an investigation, she made posts that she was sorry. When the school concluded their investigation and expelled her, she made the 2nd video saying black people were ruining her life. We see that with adults too. Sorry only because they were caught.

That video made the local news. Her classmates were shocked and hurt that she held those views. Panels on race is not a bad idea.

[Nevilledog]

28. And I would never support her readmission.

[Nevilledog]

21. And what's the harm in giving them the opportunity to change?

The assholes won't try for readmission, that's fine. The ones who truly are remorseful and willing to prove it, should be given a path to readmission. As a society we lose nothing when someone corrects their behavior.

My opinions are largely formed on seeing young people turn their lives around.

[Phoenix61]

23. I'm a social worker and have spent decades helping

people make better choices. They have the opportunity to change. They can attend a community college for 2 years, get their AA then reapply. If they have the grades and have figured out how not to be a blatant racist, asshole on social media they should be fine.

[Skittles]

24. I'm assuming this is people of all colors

it is disconcerting how much stereotyping goes on in DU

[Phoenix61]

27. Yep! A true cross-section of America. nt

[LanternWaste]

67. Who specifically is denying them opportunity for change?

No one? Then your questions is at best, at non sequitur and straw man.

And one college denying admission does not imply they will be denied from all colleges.



My opinion is not formed on reading one logical fallacy after another.

[Nevilledog]

69. Enjoy your opinion.

[rpannier]

30. I understand you're torn. I am not really torn on this

People get to choose the university they wish to attnd based on their preferences
Universities should be awarded the sane.
If they think your past behavior makes you a poor fit for their campus, they should have some leeway in making that decision
I understand why you (or others) may disagree with me
I do think this conversation is a better fit at a bar, or other location where we're facing each other because it's a very nuanced conversation

[Mariana]

33. I don't agree.

I don't think the minority students should have to accept the presence of known racists in their classes and their dorms.

[usajumpedtheshark]

36. Attending college has historically been seen as a privelege rather than a right

This is one reason the cost of attending a college is primarily the responsibility of the student. However, while you may not be able to attend the college of your choice, there is usually another one that will accept you.
I used to be a college professor and almost every year I would have students that would have been better off working for a year or two before starting college. These student were overly focused on the social experience needed to mature before they could effectively engage in the entire college experience. I always enjoyed having students who had served their country prior to starting college. They were highly motivated to get the most out of the experience.

[CatLady78]

44. You are right

People change..Even Don Black's son left.


Young people might just be repeating rubbish they hear at home. College is a great opportunity for getting exposed to alternative view points and getting deprogrammed wrt racist, sexist and other rubbish.

And I at least think class is a factor. If your parents were wealthy, educated and you hold these views, college probably won't change you. You will merely come away with the ammunition you need for a career on Fox News claiming that colleges are communist bastions ruled by feminists or some such rubbish. But if you are poorer and this is your first exposure to diverse groups and academia, you have a decent chance of changing.

[Lancero]

45. Sad fact is that schools can only accept so many students per year.

You argue that it's a loss of opportunity, and you're right... But at the same time, that loss of opportunity means that someone else can be admitted in their place, thus granting them opportunity.

Would you rather they be denied that opportunity in favor of people who have chosen to be a bigot?

[lunatica]

50. What else would you call this if not a 'teachable moment"?

Do you really think a gentle slap on the wrists would teach someone not to be racist?

[Nevilledog]

52. Never suggested a slap on the wrist if you read the rest of my posts on this thread.

I will never be able to ignore my experiences defending young people in the criminal justice system. What does society lose by allowing someone the opportunity to learn from their mistakes? If a kid puts in the work (some ideas I discussed above) then their views about racism could change. Isn't that what we're striving for? A change in the way people think?

If the kid doesn't want to put in the work, that's their choice. Then we have to hope they someday, something happens, to change their racist behavior.

I tend to dislike all or nothing, concrete thinking, solutions.

I think it's appropriate for colleges to tailor who should get the opportunity for a second chance. I don't support allowing kids involved in physical or threatening behavior trying for readmission.

Face it, the kids that don't want to change will never do the work, so they're really a non-entity.

And about "teachable moments"..... What lessons does a racist kid learn by being denied admission because of racist beliefs? It's not the lesson WE hope they would learn.

[gollygee]

51. A good teachable moment that actions have consequences

and if they don't face consequences, then what do they learn?

[Nevilledog]

54. Obviously people are not reading or comprehending my posts.

No where do I suggest there are not consequences. What I do suggest is a big consequence, but an opportunity to change.

[gollygee]

57. I'm tired of entitled kids getting second chances

I think this is a good consequence. They'll be able to go to some school or another. They just might not get their first choice.

[Nevilledog]

59. There ya go!

Now I know your opinion.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

60. Not getting into a first-choice college is a big consequence, and also an opportunity to change.

[Nevilledog]

61. Okay.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

53. Pretty sure absolutely no one is "kept from college" because of racist social media posts.

[Nevilledog]

55. *sigh*

[WhiskeyGrinder]

56. And?

[Nevilledog]

58. I posted my opinion extensively.

I'm not going to keep repeating it.

It's my opinion and I've given my reasons for it.

That your opinion differs is fine by me.

[LanternWaste]

71. You may have posted your opinion extensively, but you've failed to support it.

If your opinion is that 2+2=22 that's fine.... but support that opinion with evidence, with data, with numbers.

Simply repeating it over and over again is not going to make it any more meaningful or any more valid. Just makes into yet another bumper sticker in a long line of bumper stickers.

"Keep on truckin'!"

[Nevilledog]

72. Your wisdom is most appreciated.

[Voltaire2]

65. there are nazis on the march

There is a nazi in the white house.

It is time to choose sides.

[Nevilledog]

66. This discussion is not about choosing sides.

[Voltaire2]

68. yeah it is.

We've tolerated these nazis and now we are infested with fascists.

[Nevilledog]

70. Alrighty.

[Amy-Strange]

73. I agree with you...

-

One strike and you're out is another stupid zero tolerance rule I hate.

People should be given second chances, if for no other reason than we're better than that.
===========

[dsc]

14. Interesting though UNC Wilmington just paid out over 500 k to get a professor

who posted racist, homophobic and otherwise hateful stuff to Twitter to retire early. This was after trying to deny him tenure over that issue before. I do wonder why 18 year old freshmen get the boot but 50 plus year old profs get a golden parachute.

[Phoenix61]

19. Can't say I blame them.

“In 2007, Adams sued the university, claiming he had been denied a promotion because of his religious and political beliefs. The legal fight lasted seven years, but with support from the conservative Christian nonprofit Alliance Defending Freedom, Adams eventually triumphed. In 2014, the university agreed not to appeal the most recent verdict in Adams’ favor, to promote him to full professor and pay him $50,000 in back-pay and $615,000 in related legal costs and fees.”

[usajumpedtheshark]

38. A couple of reasons

As a state university they would be required to follow due process
The may have a collective bargaining agreement that adds aditional hoops
Traditionally, faculty contracts focus on what they do in the classroom or on campus
A student who has been accepted for enrollment does not have a contract with the university.
Many students apply, get accepted and then never attend. So the student is not considered a student until they enroll in and attend classes.

[JonLP24]

26. I can't believe people are torn on this

The fact that we have had racist social media posts for years is why we have the problems we do today.

[rpannier]

31. I think being torn on this comes from not being certain of what the criterion is

If it's one post, then I would have problems with it because high schoolers do stupid things
I would be curious how far back they go in vetting
Some posts are more offensive than others
Some posts are often targeted toward someone (which makes it worse since they're threatening)
This is an issue that I think Universities would have a difficult time quantifying into a number.

I think it's the uncertainty and possibility for abuse.
If De Sean Jackson were still in high school would you deny him entrance on the basis of his post this past week?

I would because I think it's anti-Semitic and it's hard to argue otherwise. But he has defenders who claim he is being misconstrued
Personally, I'm okay with universities doing this. I argue that people can choose the universities that are the best fit for them and universities choose people that are the best fit for their school

[Mariana]

34. Some express a lot of concern for the futures of the racists

and little if any concern for the minority students, who are put at higher risk of being harmed or harassed if these schools admit known racists.

[JustAnotherGen]

37. Oh well

They will figure it out.

Words matter and free speech is not without consequence.

[countingbluecars]

48. If they are stupid enough

to post racist stuff online perhaps they are not college material.

[onetexan]

64. Keep it up public universities!! The racists can go to private schools like Liberty U & Trump U