General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"Redskins" NFL name change is going to happen. Two leading contenders are.....
CBS Sports says Warriors is the lead contender. Fox News has former player and radio guy Doc Walker supporting it.
The Warriors. It's so easy, Walker said. All you have to do is put the arrow back on the helmet. You don't have to change anything else. Warriors on the warpath, fight for old D.C. It's that simple.
BUT
ESPNs Adam Schefter says The Redtails is most likely and is supported by current starting QB Dwayne Haskins.
The Redtails was the nickname for the Tuskegee Airmen. Three of the first five accepted into the program were from DC.
CBS
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/washington-redskins-name-change-warriors-leading-contender-for-new-name-ahead-of-2020-per-report/
Fox
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ex-redskins-player-simple-solution-name-change
ESPN
Cant find the link now.
Kaleva
(36,256 posts)You're going to have a bunch of Karens asking to speak to the team's manager...
Quemado
(1,262 posts)gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Budi
(15,325 posts)GreenPartyVoter
(72,377 posts)HotTeaBag
(1,206 posts)The Redtails would be cool and interesting but doesn't Dwayne need to complete a pass in the NFL before anyone takes him seriously?
I still think the Washington Lobbyists would be the most fitting considering they are some of the only people who can afford tickets worth going to the game for.
OrlandoDem2
(2,065 posts)ProfessorGAC
(64,854 posts)There are Kings in hockey & basketball.
There are Giants in football & baseball. Geez, those 2 actually played in the same city for 40 years or so.
Warriors works, because of the alliteration.
I like it, too.
soothsayer
(38,601 posts)NewDayOranges
(692 posts)of a white male wearing a suit and a fedora and carrying a briefcase on the sides of their helmets... 😂
PCIntern
(25,483 posts)HotTeaBag
(1,206 posts)...and don't say the Flyers.
PCIntern
(25,483 posts)The SPHAS
SouthPhiladelphia Hebrew Association managed by Eddie Gottlieb.
HotTeaBag
(1,206 posts)Wow. Never knew that.
I would have expected the South Philly Italian Association managed by Joey 'The Finger' Salvatoreo though.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)Mosby
(16,259 posts)The mlb team is the Nationals.
Ohiogal
(31,914 posts)Its unique.
BannonsLiver
(16,306 posts)If its picked there will be those who will call it cultural and historical appropriation and theyll be right back in the same mess.
Id go with something very simple and benign no one can misconstrue in any way.
lame54
(35,262 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)RobinA
(9,886 posts)redtail hawks will get together and complain that the team stole their name?
maxsolomon
(33,246 posts)What came to mind immediately:
Sneederbunk
(14,278 posts)maxsolomon
(33,246 posts)Teams don't actually need mascots.
jmowreader
(50,528 posts)maxsolomon
(33,246 posts)AFC, then.
As opposed to ARFC (Australian Rules).
underpants
(182,624 posts)More like Red Asses if you ask me
Goodheart
(5,308 posts)Are we sure that Native Americans want to be memorialized as warriors? I sure wouldn't want to be.
Solomon
(12,310 posts)OrlandoDem2
(2,065 posts)JonLP24
(29,322 posts)(Snip)
Individual school districts have responded to complaints by local Native American individuals and tribes, or have made changes due to an increased awareness of the issue among educators and students. New Native mascots have not been proposed in recent decades, or are withdrawn before becoming official due to public opposition. For example, in 2016 when one of the teams in the National College Prospects Hockey League (NCPHL) was announced as the Lake Erie Warriors with a caricature Mohawk logo[109] it was immediate changed to the Lake Erie Eagles.[110]
(Snip)
After receiving statements in opposition to the "Indians" name from the Penobscot Nation and the ACLU of Maine, the school board voted in March 2019 to eliminate the mascot at Skowhegan Area High School.[137] With the removal of Native American imagery associated with the "Warriors" name at other high schools, Maine becomes the first state to eliminate indigenous mascots in all secondary schools.[138] A bill to ban Native American mascots in all public schools passed the Maine House of Representatives and Senate[139] and was signed into law by Governor Janet Mills in May, 2019.[140]
(Snip)
Few professional teams using Native names and imagery remain, several changing when they moved to other cities, while others went out of business. The Atlanta Hawks were originally the Tri-Cities Blackhawks (using an "Indian" logo),[155] and the Clippers were originally the Buffalo Braves. The Golden State Warriors eliminated Native American imagery in 1971.[156]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_mascot_controversy
I left out schools with relationships to Tribes. A high school in my city goes by the Warriors and their helmets look like Florida State.
I do think Red Tails is a better name but Warriors is fine if the mascot is generic.
jayfish
(10,037 posts)warpath noun
war·path | ˈwȯr-ˌpath , -ˌpäth
Definition of warpath
1: the route taken by a party of American Indians going on a warlike expedition or to a war
Not good.
OrlandoDem2
(2,065 posts)Besides, its not like Indians never fought.
All of this is moot if Warriors isnt chosen.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Most white people don't take this seriously that is true. That is why there are or were so many Native American mascots.
OrlandoDem2
(2,065 posts)The logo is a slur.
Not using warrior because of 2 words in a song is ridiculous and will cause people who actually agree with the change to lose sympathy for the movement. Myself included.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)I stand with the NCAI
NCAI's Long Standing Opposition to Harmful "Indian" Sports Mascots
About "Indian" Sports Mascots & Harm
Born in an era when racism and bigotry were accepted by the dominant culture, "Indian" sports brands have grown to become multi-million dollar franchises.
The intolerance and harm promoted by these Indian sports mascots, logos, or symbols, have very real consequences for Native people.
Specifically, rather than honoring Native peoples, these caricatures and stereotypes are harmful, perpetuate negative stereotypes of Americas first peoples, and contribute to a disregard for the personhood of Native peoples.
As documented in a comprehensive review of decades of social science research, derogatory "Indian" sports mascots have serious psychological, social and cultural consequences for Native Americans, especially Native youth. Of todays American Indian and Alaska Native population, those under the age of 18 make up 32 percent, and Native youth under the age of 24 represent nearly half, or 42 percent, of the entire Native population.
http://www.ncai.org/proudtobe
The problem is if they switch to Warriors and use the arrow it is pretty much another Native American mascot.
How about instead of Red Tails or Warriors we go with Fighting Whites since white people are also known to fight?
Fighting Whites
The Fighting Whites (alternatively identified as Fightin' Whites, Fighting Whities, or Fightin' Whities) were an intramural basketball team formed at the University of Northern Colorado in 2002 and named in response to the Native American mascot controversy.[1]
The intramural college team briefly attracted a storm of national attention because of its satirical protest about stereotypes of Native Americans being used as sports mascots, particularly the "Fightin' Reds" of Eaton High School in Eaton, Colorado, not far from the university in Greeley. The Reds' mascot has been described as "a caricature Indian with a misshapen nose, [wearing] a loincloth and eagle feather".[2]
The intramural team, which included players of Native American, white, Latino, African American, and middle eastern ancestry,[3][4] adopted the name "Fighting Whites", with an accompanying logo of a stereotypical "white man" in a suit,[5] styled after advertising art of the 1950s, as their team mascot. The character has been described as a man from the Ozzie Nelson era[6] or a "Father Knows Best white American male".[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_Whites
I followed this issue for years from living in Arizona.
OrlandoDem2
(2,065 posts)No one cares, however, about the words in a song that no one knows. Myself included. They are not symbols, logos, or a mascot.
jayfish
(10,037 posts)The first thing that came to mind to Doc Walker, the person quoted in the OP, was "Warriors on the warpath". Sorry, Warriors is a bad choice.
TheFarseer
(9,317 posts)They had to change warriors to golden eagles.
OrlandoDem2
(2,065 posts)And I believe Marquette chose to change. It didnt have to change.
Of course there are the Golden State Warriors NBA team as well.
The name warrior is not offensive at all.
soothsayer
(38,601 posts)Solomon
(12,310 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)The headdress shit has got to go.
Budi
(15,325 posts)👍
PufPuf23
(8,755 posts)My graduation was 50 years ago as of 2021. I live locally in my old age.
There has been discussion in the past but the overwhelming opinion was to remain Warriors.
This may be subject to change but have not noticed any discussion for years.
Note I am not Native American.
Redskins is particularly odious as is any tomahawk chop type cheer.
My preference is that a new name be found and associated logos developed that exalt Native Americans.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Goodheart
(5,308 posts)My implication is that a new "warriors" mascot would be related back to their present one.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)denbot
(9,898 posts)I was thinking they should rename the team after the Patawomecks, a local (to D.C.) Tribe, and whom the Potomac River is named after.
Goodheart
(5,308 posts)"Potomacs" would be cool.
OrlandoDem2
(2,065 posts)TuxedoKat
(3,818 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)as soon as I saw the suggestion.
jcgoldie
(11,613 posts)Its a great native bird of prey and they could keep the colors and feathers on the helmet.
soothsayer
(38,601 posts)Goodheart
(5,308 posts)tapper
(141 posts)Heres a link:https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/tuskegee-airmen to an article about .the Tuskegee airmen. The Redtails came about because their planes were painted red on the tails. I suppose the mascot would be a stylized WWII fighter plane. It did occur to me that the mascot could be a Redtail hawk (very common in my part of the Midwest): but that would obscure the reason for using the Redtails moniker, and would be too comfortable a mascot for racists.
(Eh... first post trying to use a link... hope it works...)
soothsayer
(38,601 posts)Victor_c3
(3,557 posts)It paints too much of a picture that war and fighting in wars is an affair filled with glory and leaves its participants feeling honorable and proud.
As a damaged combat vet, my war experiences were nothing like that. Im filled with guilt and shame and I absolutely abhorred the violence of the fighting.
Red Tails gets my vote.
mac56
(17,564 posts)Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)After Reagan's old nickname.
lastlib
(23,159 posts)Doc_Technical
(3,521 posts)denem
(11,045 posts)Goodheart
(5,308 posts)but Red Hornets would be good, too.
Response to underpants (Original post)
denem This message was self-deleted by its author.
Goodheart
(5,308 posts)LOL.
Just kidding.
coti
(4,612 posts)Rolls right off the tongue, doesn't it?
Goodheart
(5,308 posts)qwlauren35
(6,145 posts)is for Red Tails.
So says the loyal DC born Washington fan.
vercetti2021
(10,156 posts)That's original and unique
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)I thought all the names would suck. Warriors didn't change anything. Then I saw Redtails and was amazed.
Of course, you can hear fans and announcers after a loss saying tails between legs. Big deal. Go with the winner
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)The Tuskegee Airmen and the beautiful bird of prey. Which can be found in every state.
As much as I hate Auburn University football they are the tigers but also have the whole war eagle yell thing going on.
underpants
(182,624 posts)They have three mascots
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)They are the dirtiest program in the SEC, in my opinion. But I do like the various mascots.
You must be an Auburn grad or SEC fan to know about the plainsmen.
Fla Dem
(23,590 posts)But Redtails works for me and it honors heroes.
jmowreader
(50,528 posts)Two problems:
1. Since they're talking about the logo just being an arrow, it's still appropriation of Native American symbology.
2. You just know this is how they'd introduce the team on national television:
underpants
(182,624 posts)Its like, Okay, we sort of changed it. Ya happy now?!?!?
cabot
(724 posts)It would be a fun way to introduce a team, though.
scarytomcat
(1,706 posts)The Hogs
Music Man
(1,184 posts)I even liked one of the mock uniforms I saw.
The reason that I dislike Washington Warriors is that it's so generic. There are so many other teams called the Warriors, and the best team names are the ones that have some connection (geographic or culturally) to the town. Warriors can mean anything.
Also, to be the Washington Warriors they'd have to really do their homework and communicate with Native American groups on appropriate ways to use that moniker, and even then I sense they'd still screw it up and get backlash, rendering this whole opportunity a waste.
roamer65
(36,744 posts)One of the Ann Arbor high schools is River Rats.
The name would fit DC quite well.
jmowreader
(50,528 posts)And this would be really cool in that the logo could be an oval on the side of the helmet with a reproduction of a US President's official oil painting in it...and by wearing a different president at every game (yes, including the disaster we have now) they could sell a ton more merch.
Elwood P Dowd
(11,443 posts)They can keep their same team colors and simply change the logo on the helmet. Might have to change the helmet color to white in order to show off the red tail wing logo better. Would probably sell more team merchandise
with that story about the World War II Tuskegee Redtails.
I attended a couple of Redskin games back in the early 1970s when I lived in the DC area. Their owner gave away tickets to us poor military guys, so I still have a little respect for the franchise even though the present owner, Dan Snyder, is a total asshole.
underpants
(182,624 posts)Went to Snyder and try to convince to sell to them.
Kind of tried to pressure him into selling or changing the name.
As expected Snyder said No.
I got the impression that Snyder doesnt want to be told to do this - not that he just doesnt want to do it.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Let's let white people deal with having a sports team name they find derogatory for a while.
Buns_of_Fire
(17,157 posts)Wisconsin might complain a little, but Honey Badger don't care.
The Washington Calamari. We don't have enough professional teams named after food.
The Washington Rosebuds. Nice and friendly, except for the thorns.
The Washington Poke Sallet. We still don't have enough professional teams named after sort-of food. (Gator got your granny. Chomp. Chomp, chomp.)
There y'go. I'm waiving my traditional fee on this.
underpants
(182,624 posts)Buns_of_Fire
(17,157 posts)warrior1
(12,325 posts)MurrayDelph
(5,292 posts)The Washington Statehood
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,781 posts)"Renegades" probably makes more sense, but it is the current name of the XFL franchise in Dallas.
"Redtails" was favored by longtime DC news anchor, the late Jim Vance. It would please the DC council, and most likely lead to a sweetheart deal for a stadium. Despite the asset value, Dan Snyder and the vast majority of the fans despise Jack Kent Cooke Stadium/FedEx Field. Snyder wants a retractable dome stadium in DC to rival Jerry's World and the new M/SP stadium for the Vikings so that he can host the Super Bowl. Army/Navy, final 4, and similar events. It means the President gets to come to his stadium and sit in his box. Snyder is in his mid-50s, so that means another 3 - 4 Presidents - maybe more.
underpants
(182,624 posts)Good points on the stadium but with all thats just happened I cant see another Jerry World going up. DC or anywhere.
Iterate
(3,020 posts)It's the only correct answer. Just imagine the half-time shows.
And don't argue with me. I've had a cognitive test.
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)Yeah, yeah, I know, Tuskegee Airmen, and all that. Red-tailed hawks, and what have you. But from a practical standpoint, it would literally be the butt of every joke on and off the sixth-grade playground. You might as well just call them the Washington Hemorrhoids.
theaocp
(4,233 posts)Hands down. Still called the Skins. Ultimate callback to football. How hard is this?