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Fri Jul 3, 2020, 12:42 PM

How Trump Could Lose The Election And Still Remain President

Penned by a former Senator and a Newsweek editor, this is a disturbing look at a nightmare scenario.


https://www.newsweek.com/how-trump-could-lose-election-still-remain-president-opinion-1513975

The second pathway to subverting the election is even more ominous—but we must be cognizant of it because Trump is already laying the groundwork for how he can lose the popular vote, and even lose in the key swing states necessary for an Electoral College victory, but still remain president.

This spring, HBO aired The Plot Against America, based on the Philip Roth novel of how an authoritarian president could grab control of the United States government using emergency powers that no one could foresee. Recent press reports have revealed the compilation by the Brennan Center at New York University of an extensive list of presidential emergency powers that might be inappropriately invoked in a national security crisis. Attorney General William Barr, known for his extremist view of the expanse of presidential power, is widely believed to be developing a Justice Department opinion arguing that the president can exercise emergency powers in certain national security situations, while stating that the courts, being extremely reluctant to intervene in the sphere of a national security emergency, would allow the president to proceed unchecked.

Something like the following scenario is not just possible but increasingly probable because it is clear Trump will do anything to avoid the moniker he hates more than any other: "loser."

-SNIP-

We cannot let ourselves believe that this is a far-fetched scenario. We have just seen Trump threaten to invoke emergency powers under the Insurrection Act of 1807 to call up the U.S. military against domestic protesters. The remarkable apology by Joint Chiefs Chairman General Mark Milley, stating that it was wrong to create a perception that the military would get directly involved in a domestic political protest and intervene against American civilians, underscores the corrupt use of executive powers Trump is willing to employ. As Fareed Zakaria recently said in summing up the lessons of former national security adviser John Bolton's new book: "Donald Trump will pay any price, make any deal, bend any rule, to assure his own survival and success."


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Response to LudwigPastorius (Original post)

Fri Jul 3, 2020, 12:54 PM

1. Nope, I won't go there.

As much as I think he will try anything, his term ends if he is not reelected.
And the Secret Service or Marshalls or DC police will escort him out of office.

And as someone else reminded me recently:

The office of the President resides with the person, not the location.

When Biden is sworn in, regardless if we are in the middle of pure chaos, He will be President. Even if he is doing it from a bathroom stall in Grand Central station with the building collapsing around him.

Hope it doesn’t come to that of course.

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Response to Karma13612 (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 3, 2020, 01:00 PM

3. The article lays out a path that, while using strong-arm tactics from the Justice Department,...


conforms with Constitutional proscriptions.

If neither candidate gets a sufficient number of Electors, the decision on who would be President goes to the House of Representatives.

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Response to LudwigPastorius (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 3, 2020, 04:02 PM

16. No it doesn't

If electors aren't certified, then they don't count towards determining the majority. One candidate will get a majority, unless it were to end up tied.

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Response to LudwigPastorius (Original post)

Fri Jul 3, 2020, 12:56 PM

2. The key points in this thread:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213693684

A note to the naysayers and pollyannas:
This COULD happen. May happen. Must be prevented by any means necessary.

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Response to superpatriotman (Reply #2)

Fri Jul 3, 2020, 01:05 PM

6. What it really means is that

we MUST turn out in enormous numbers to ensure that even if a few red states refuse to certify their electors, we still win.

And our side (the people in charge) better have a plan to deal with massive disruption immediately after the election.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #6)

Fri Jul 3, 2020, 01:33 PM

11. Absolutely. Hope we get to vote.

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Response to LudwigPastorius (Original post)

Fri Jul 3, 2020, 01:04 PM

4. It is a good idea to...

It is a good idea to cover all bases and consider the possibilities. I don't like sudden, disaster capitalism-like surprises that bring shock and dismay.

I certainly agree with the idea that Predator Grump will do anything and pull out all stops if he can and also that he has always aspired to be the first American dictator. Think of all the power you could have by sidestepping or ignoring the Constitution. Really. There is a lot of power to be had.

Whether he can or not is debatable and should be debated. It's not like he doesn't throw one thing in our face after another as a part of the persona of his reality TV character designed to condition the population for his desired dictatorship.

My idea of what he sees in the mirror, so to speak:

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Response to LudwigPastorius (Original post)

Fri Jul 3, 2020, 01:04 PM

5. Yeah, no this is not going to happen.

I won't say Trump would not try this, clearly he is deranged enough. But he has no way to do it and it would be treason.

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Response to yellowcanine (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 3, 2020, 01:21 PM

8. Agree.... fear mongering ...please stop

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #8)

Fri Jul 3, 2020, 04:04 PM

17. agreed, this is as likely as finding gold in my cat's litterbox

technically possible, but it just isn't happening

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Response to LudwigPastorius (Original post)

Fri Jul 3, 2020, 01:08 PM

7. People could die if this scenario were to play out. nt

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Response to LudwigPastorius (Original post)

Fri Jul 3, 2020, 01:26 PM

9. could someone explan this step to me?

"All four swing states have Republican control of both their upper and lower houses of their state legislatures. Those state legislatures refuse to allow any Electoral College slate to be certified until the "national security" investigation is complete."

i am confused as to how this happens... my understanding is that by Dec 14, the secretary of state for each state must certify the vote total, which essentially declares someone the winner of that state, and the electors appointed by that party later on cast their ballot for president. This is how SCOTUS justified electing Bush in 2000 and the thing that is going to come back and bite drumpf in the ass this year.

So how does the state legislature get involved? How can they stop the appointment of electors once the vote is certified? does the legislature have to cast a vote to "accept" the vote total certified by the SoS???

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Response to Takket (Reply #9)

Fri Jul 3, 2020, 01:51 PM

12. I think the authors of the article are saying that the Supreme Court could


rule in favor of the presumed emergency powers invoking investigations and delaying certification in contested states, while compelling the go-ahead of the electors casting their votes everywhere else. This would be argued in the interest of "national security", which would allow them to wash their hands of the result.

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Response to LudwigPastorius (Original post)

Fri Jul 3, 2020, 01:26 PM

10. Isn't Biden going to win with 400+ EV?

That is what I read on a different thread...

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #10)

Fri Jul 3, 2020, 04:14 PM

19. to get to 400 he needs TX , the only way to hit 400 without TX would take sweeping everything

on the map AND flipping IN or SC whilst losing TX

and look at what some of the states are flipped on this map (crazy ones like Missouri, Arkansas, etc)



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Response to LudwigPastorius (Original post)

Fri Jul 3, 2020, 01:56 PM

13. STOP IT.

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Response to marie999 (Reply #13)

Fri Jul 3, 2020, 03:45 PM

14. It is an op ed article from Newsweek, coauthored by a former Democratic Senator.


It's not like it's a piece of trash from Newsmax or InfoWars.

If you don't like it, alert on it.

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Response to LudwigPastorius (Reply #14)

Fri Jul 3, 2020, 03:56 PM

15. No. We all have a right to show articles.

I just don't want people to get paranoid. There are things trump and putin can do to hurt us in the election and we must be careful, but I honestly do not believe the Republicans in Congress or The Supreme Court will follow him. They know that they could destroy the Republican Party. I think the Republicans are smart enough to know that a Democratic President and Congress will give them enough fodder for the 2024 election. I am sure that The Lincoln Project will start running anti-Democrat ads at least a year before the 2024 election.

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Response to LudwigPastorius (Reply #14)

Fri Jul 3, 2020, 04:12 PM

18. It is still trash, based on a faulty premise

Only certified electors count towards the total for determining the majority.

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