Would the "Karen" stuff make Trump, Putin, and Republicans happy or unhappy?

[gulliver]

7 votes, 2 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Extremely happy (enough that they would meddle to encourage it)
	7 (100%)
	Happy
	0 (0%)
	Unhappy
	0 (0%)
	Extremely unhappy (Trump, Putin, and Republicans don't want this under any circumstances)
	0 (0%)
	2 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[LakeArenal]

1. WTF....

[Hav]

6. My guess

a poor and weird attempt to make others not use the Karen meme by tying it to Trump, Repubs...and Putin.

[delisen]

18. Don jr is on record as enjoying it.

Trump's attitude toward women is well known. I think he would applaud Karlos Dillard who has been making money on his false Karen videos .
One of his victims was an Asian American restaurant worker.

Additionally Trump is skilled at divide and conquer so I suspect he would enjoy this misuse of the name Karen controversy among democrats.

[LakeArenal]

20. I hate the use of Karen. I don't see it here.

Seems more like click bait to get us arguing about Karen again.

[malchickiwick]

2. Huh??

[WhiskeyGrinder]

3. LMAO what on earth

[SouthernCal_Dem]

4. What in the....

[WhiskeyGrinder]

5. But like...define "Karen stuff"

[gulliver]

7. Any discussion on any platform in which the "Karen" concept occurs.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

19. Discussing the concept of entitled white women using racism to oppress BIPOC and viewing the role

of white women as tools, weapons and benefactors in white supremacy through a critical lens?

[gulliver]

25. Sure. That's one example.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

36. Pretty sure Republicans would happy if we didn't discuss it, because we might find solutions if we

did, and they'd be happy if we did discuss it, because the white moderate will be right there to wring their hands and slow us down on the way to solutions. So I try not to give a shit about what would make Republicans happy, if I'm thinking about the right thing to do.

[nsd]

17. C'mon. Don't bullshit like this. You know exactly what people are complaining about.

Misogyny.

In a word, that's it.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

21. It's not clear to me how using a name as shorthand to identify white women upholding white

supremacy is misogynistic.

[nsd]

22. Why not just describe white supremacy?

Why not just describe what's wrong?

How is using a loaded term -- ripe for misinterpretation -- better?

Just think about how much time pro-Karen people and anti-Karen people on this site have spent arguing about what the term means. When you have to spend that much energy explaining what a "shorthand" term means, it clearly isn't doing its job.

So, again, what is the point?

[StarfishSaver]

27. Black people don't have employ language that makes white people more comfortable

when describing the behavior of racist white people, nor should we be required to provide a treatise on racism and white supremacy every time we want to refer to behavior that occurs over and over, day after day.

Anyone who doesn't like the one word shorthand we've chosen to use was free not to use it themselves. But they should not expect us to adjust our terminology in response to their whitesplaining.

[nsd]

32. A shorthand term does have to make sense and be immediately understandable.

Otherwise, it's pointless.

Also, when did "Black people" decide on this term? It seems to be used just as frequently by "woke" white people.

[StarfishSaver]

58. The term is very understandable to many people

The fact that you either don't get it or don't like it is on you. But it is not up to YOU to grammar and tone police anyone based on whether you understand or like the language

[WhiskeyGrinder]

34. You're overthinking this.

As a humorous epithet used by an oppressed population to describe the oppressive behavior of an oppressor, it quickly conveys both a concept and the read of the situation to others who have similar experiences. If others outside that group see the term as unhelpful or confusing, that happens.

[nsd]

41. Is it humorous or is it hurtful?

I think it's crossed the line to hurtful. And that alone is a reason to knock it off.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

47. It's humorous. I do not think it's crossed the line to hurtful.

ETA: I mean, hurtful to whom?

[nsd]

56. Hurtful to women.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

74. Only if you think calling out entitled, racist behavior by white women hurts all women.

[nsd]

75. You think the use of the word "Karen" lately has been limited to racist behavior?

Really?

I think it's been used by a people who get a frisson of enjoyment at abusing women but want to feel woke while doing so.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

77. Abuse...how?

[nsd]

79. Karen as used lately on the internet basically means ...

... b*tch.

Nothing more, nothing less.

All the political/racial trappings aside, it's just the same old, same old.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

82. It can certainly be used as an insult and to dismiss someone's concerns. It has nowhere near the

oppressive power of "bitch." And if it's what it takes to get people talking about the particular role white women play in upholding white supremacy, I'm here for it.

[Autumn]

8. Who cares what makes them happy or unhappy? They are miseable creatures, barly human.

[nsd]

9. Why is it so important for some people to call women names?

A number of people here have tried to set this up as a binary choice: (1) fight racism OR (2) call women we don't like "Karens". (And the definition of what "we don't like" is pretty slippery. Sometimes it's actual racist behavior, sometimes it's just women being assertive.)

But that is BS. You can call out racism in precise and powerful terms, without resorting to name-calling. Indeed, being controlled and precise is much more meaningful than using epithets.

So, I am mystified and alarmed by all the people on DU who seem so devoted to using the epithet "Karen". Why? What is the point? Why use a stereotype when you can instead state your case precisely?

Why use the term at all? Why?

[Hav]

10. Why use it? For the same reason any other simple term or meme is used

Because it describes in one word what would otherwise need multiple sentences to convey the same message.

[gulliver]

12. "Republicanism following woman" if it's a woman...otherwise "Republicanism following man"

To me, that's actually more like the truth.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

37. Yeah, that really rolls off the tongue.

[gulliver]

42. Is that a cut?

[StarfishSaver]

62. The arrogance and entitlement of these "suggestions" is mind-boggling

White people giving instructions to oppressed people and our allies on how to more appropriately communicate about our oppression is pretty rich.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

73. And every suggestion hides the real problem even further. Republicanism-following person?

Christ. But just as long as some white woman's feelings remain unhurt!

[nsd]

14. No, it doesn't.

People use it for everything. A woman does something racist. She's a Karen. A woman is loud and obnoxious in a supermarket. She's a Karen. A woman cuts me off in traffic. She's a Karen. A woman did anything else that annoyed me. She's a Karen.

I don't know where this term came from, but the way it's used now is meaningless. It's basically just a way to denigrate a woman without having to explain exactly what she did wrong. At best, lazy, At worst, misogynistic.

There are so many better ways to express yourself. Using the term "Karen" just reveals a shallowness and laziness (on the part of the speaker).

[NurseJackie]

30. Maybe this will help...

[nsd]

43. ? Nope, it doesn't.

Some of the reported "Karen" incidents have been atrocious -- hateful behavior by hateful people -- but but other incidents are just BS: humans being obnoxious or misunderstanding each other. A catchall term is imprecise and annoying and lazy.

I don't doubt the good motives of many of the people who use the term "Karen", but I think they're disregarding the feelings of other human beings. And they shouldn't do that.

[NurseJackie]

51. Here... watch this (Fast-Forward to the 1-min mark)

A catchall term is imprecise and annoying and lazy.

If this doesn't make sense, then nothing will. Listen to what she says.

?t=60

Partial Transcript: Okay, I'm gonna need for people who are calling this a slur, and "racial slur" to stop! Okay? When you are a "Karen," that means you've opted-in -- and if it don't apply, let it fly!

But the fact is, if someone is labeling you "Karen," that means you've done something to warrant that label. You're not just sitting there minding your own business. And generally it means that you've stepped into something--into somebody else's business--that you have no business stepping into.

And you've made a spectacle of yourself based on some degree of privilege that you believe that you have. If that applies to you, KAREN, then that applies to you! If it doesn't apply to you, then just let it fly! Why people want to...when people are like "oh, it's the new n-word"... ARE YOU SERIOUS, KAREN?! That is a Karen! Okay?

[betsuni]

53. +1

[irisblue]

104. Yep yep yep

[delisen]

29. It is easy &is based upon prejudice against women

And people using it are choosing to denigrate and scapegoat all women but particularly older women who are already scapegoated or made invisible in our society unless they are rich or famous.

[Hav]

38. No, that's a dishonest take

This is absolutely not about denigrating all women and age has nothing whatsoever to do with it. The Karen meme would be useless if it would fit all women. Right now, it has found a new use for denigrating entitled racists.

[delisen]

54. Not at all dishonest. You assert without evidence.

Please tell me your evidence for accusing me of dishonesty.

[NurseJackie]

52. LOL! Nobody is doing that!

[nsd]

59. Is this meant to be a useful contribution to this discussion?

Use your words.

[NurseJackie]

61. It's meant to ridicule absurd statements and accusations.

[nsd]

67. Try again. Do better.

[NurseJackie]

69. That's all it deserves.

[delisen]

35. This.

[Jirel]

11. Quit trolling.

This is the most ridiculous attempt to make people not use “Karen.”

Will be happily calling Karens a Karen. Could not care less what Dump, Putin, et al think.

[delisen]

33. And you don't care about women who stated it hurts them

and have asked posters here to stop and to be smart and caring enough to think of an unprejudiced term.

We get it.

[NurseJackie]

63. Oh boo-hoo! "When you are a Karen, that means you've opted-in -- and if it don't apply, let it fly!"

?t=60

Partial Transcript: Okay, I'm gonna need for people who are calling this a slur, and "racial slur" to stop! Okay? When you are a "Karen," that means you've opted-in -- and if it don't apply, let it fly!

But the fact is, if someone is labeling you "Karen," that means you've done something to warrant that label. You're not just sitting there minding your own business. And generally it means that you've stepped into something--into somebody else's business--that you have no business stepping into.

And you've made a spectacle of yourself based on some degree of privilege that you believe that you have. If that applies to you, KAREN, then that applies to you! If it doesn't apply to you, then just let it fly! Why people want to...when people are like "oh, it's the new n-word"... ARE YOU SERIOUS, KAREN?! That is a Karen! Okay?

[WestCoastYellowDog]

13. I hope a California employer gets sued if they terminate a woman calling 911 in good faith

It’s only a matter of time when this doxxing becomes witness tampering. (I’m only referring to good faith calls to the police).

[LanternWaste]

48. Any examples of precisely this?

Or simply alleged concern of an unrealized potential on your part?

[PTWB]

15. Gee, let's ask this question another way:

Would it make Republicans happy that we have a term to label those who exploit their white privilege, often in racist ways?

NO, it does not make them happy. I imagine the scariest thing one of these people can see is a video of their racist behavior and the hashtag #Karen beginning to trend on twitter.

[SiliconValley_Dem]

28. thumbs up to this post

[delisen]

50. Please find a non prejudiced term. nt

[Tipperary]

16. Happy.

It shows the hate on both sides, which disturbs me. Hate will get this asshat re-elected..

[FreepFryer]

23. Ok, Boomski. (nt)

[Wednesdays]

24. Putin approves the multitude of Karen threads on DU. nt

[irisblue]

106. So when did he call and tell you that?

Just in case

[SiliconValley_Dem]

26. what a strange poll

[StarfishSaver]

31. is this poll the Karenest whitesplaining so far today?

Why, yes. Yes, it is.

[lame54]

39. It's very Karenesque

[NurseJackie]

40. Oh, you!

is this poll the Karenest whitesplaining so far today? Why, yes. Yes, it is.

Absolutely!

[nsd]

45. No, it isn't.

Respond directly to what people are writing.

[NurseJackie]

60. Kindly fast-forward to the 55-second mark to actually LISTEN to what she's saying. Or read it. (I've

Kindly fast-forward to the 55-second mark to actually LISTEN to what she's saying. Or read it. (I've made it as easy as possible.)

?t=62

TRANSCRIPT of AMANDA SEALES (actress and comedian)

A "Karen" is a white woman whose oblivion of their privelege causes them to act in a way that is oppressive, and often-times... insane.

(video clip)

Some might the that a "Karen" is just a loud white woman asking for the manager. You know, disrupting your customer service experience. But I'm here to tell ya, Karen goes a lot deeper.

(video clip)

Karen is a white woman who is a descendant of those who came before her who could scream and get a black man killed, who could point and get a black woman murdered.

(video clips)

For me these videos are very triggering. I think that there's a certain level of like "oh-ha-ha-ha they're annoying" when you're just watching it. But when you're in that situation it is not an annoyance, it is a disruption of your being.

You know that as a person of color--specifically a black person--you are the one who's going to be in the situation of having to prove your innocence.

[nsd]

66. My point is that many of the people who have seized on the term "Karen" have not adhered ...

,,, to your definition. Your definition belongs to you but is not respected by other people.

"Karen" has become a catchall term of abuse directed against women, especially white women.

I'm not a white woman, but I am a human being of goodwill and I find this laziness, this indifference to hurtfulness, appalling and astonishing on a Democratic site.

[NurseJackie]

68. No it hasn't. Nobody is doing that.

My point is that many of the people who have seized on the term "Karen" have not adhered ...
,,, to your definition.

Which ones? I see no evidence of that. And even if I take you at your word, it's not the responsibility of EVERYONE to stop using a perfectly fine description like "Karen" simply because a small number of people get it wrong.

The easily-offended and overly-sensitive and overwrought types are just gonna have to learn to deal, aren't they?

Your definition belongs to you but is not respected by other people.

Well, actually, it's not "my" definition. It's THE definition.

"Karen" has become a catchall term of abuse directed against women, especially white women.

No it hasn't. Karen is here to stay. Get used to it. It includes all the "Barbecue Beckys" and "Permit Pattys"

I'm not a white woman, but I am a human being of goodwill and I find this laziness, this indifference to hurtfulness, appalling and astonishing on a Democratic site.

Oh dear. People choose to be hurt. Hashtag sad.

[nsd]

71. Use words. GIFs are silly. Use words.

[NurseJackie]

80. Don't tell me what to do. I don't take orders.

Use words. GIFs are silly. Use words.

Don't tell me what to do. I don't take orders.

My reply and my words were there for anyone who cares to read them. I was very detailed and specific. Point by point... yet the only thing that got your attention was the animated gif at the end? That was the only thing that compelled comment? How revealing.

My recommendation for anyone who doesn't get it is to simply read it again. My advice for anyone who lets their privilege get in the way of understanding is for them to: slow down, take a breath, watch, read, listen and learn.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

84. There were a lot of words in that post.

[NurseJackie]

105. Yes. Thank you. Clearly, however, those weren't the "words" someone wanted to read...

Yes. Thank you. Clearly, however, those weren't the "words" someone wanted to read... or take the time to read. Instead it's just easier to deflect by focusing on an animated gif and trying to make THAT the focus of objection.

[gollygee]

87. Ha!

I've been intentionally ignoring this poll until now.

[Sunsky]

44. Really

The "Karen stuff" is about black and other minorities being harassed by white females. Screw what Putin or Trump feels. I don't give a damn. If anything Dump would encourage Karens, they are very fine people in his eyes.

[Sympthsical]

46. Would you like to speak to the Internet's manager?

I don’t think the anti-Karens understand the optics of this. Privileged, entitled people thinking the slight sad an internet term gives them somehow needs to be discussed at great length during a racial crisis.

This is starting to read like the Onion.

[nsd]

49. The optics?

What are you? DU's public relations specialist?

We're talking about a current issue in American politics. People, Americans, Democrats are expressing their opinions. It's fine. Don't worry about it.

[Sympthsical]

57. I'm not worried about it

I was irked at first. Even a little pissed at the gross display of privilege. Now I'm just bemused. The complaining about Karen has taken on a very Karen flavor.

I mean, it's kind of hilarious when you think about it.

Proceed. If people can't figure out how problematic this behavior is by now, after half a billion threads, no amount of explaining further is going to crack through.

[gulliver]

64. It's just that Putin is such a rat face that it does no one any good to help him defeat good causes.

At least we can agree the Karen stuff makes Putin happy I thought. And making Putin, Trump, and their Republican supporters happy is a bad thing. We can argue whether it is counterbalanced by some "good" that others might assert is achieved. We can argue whether that good can be achieved more effectively through better, more effective conduct on the part of people who are supposedly arguing for those in need.

But Putin, Trump, white nationalists, racists, and their apologists and helpers are all scum, right? Can we at least agree on that?

[Sympthsical]

103. If it were a serious issue, I'd be bothered. This isn't

It's a very niche issue. So some people on their internet have their hackles raised over a word. A word that has existed for many years. I get the whole "new to me" aspect of it, and with the BLM protests, the behavior by some white women is getting a lot of viral attention.

I don't think Putin thinks anything of it. Most people don't.

I think we're in full agreement about that lot being scum. And scum is about the lightest word one can say about them.

[Sunsky]

55. I agree

Well said.
It's fascinating to see the privileged get so disturbed over an internet meme while people's lives are being endangered. Miss me with the faux outrage

[gulliver]

70. Well, ignoring other factors though, do you think Trump, Putin, Republicans, and their stooges...

...being happy means good things for the people you are expressing concern about? Bad people being happy about something usually means good people should feel unhappy. So that's a connection I was assuming people would make.

If we agree that Trump, Putin, Republicans who support them, white nationalists, and any stooges on their side are bad people, then that implies making them happy hurts good people, I would assume. Are Trump, Putin, Republicans who support them, white nationalists, and their assisting stooges bad people?

[Sunsky]

94. The problem is, the people I'm expressing concern over

Are me and my family. I'm no a third party viewer/ spectator in this. With or without Trump or Putin my people are being harassed and killed because of genetics. Before Trump, I had to have "the talk" with my kids about being treated differently and how to survive in this racist society. Before the Karen meme came about Trayvon was killed, Michael Brown was murdered and the list goes on and on... So again I say miss me the faux outrage. I have zero tolerance for it.
The Karen meme will fade away with time, the same cannot be said for the Karen-like behavior. I will not even waste time arguing this. For me, this debate is an example of clueless the privileged can be. This is small fry in the grand scheme of things.

[gulliver]

96. I'm very sorry you and yours are suffering. But can we at least, please, agree that...

...Donald Trump, "rat face" Putin, white nationalists, Republican stooges and other stooges who help them are rotten and bitter enemies of the people you are arguing for? Can we at least agree on that? Why can't we agree on that?

[Sunsky]

101. Oh

Read my post, I gave my response. Putin, Trump, and people who consider themselves white nationalists aren't the only enemies. Sometimes the enemy acts like your friend. Sometimes the enemy is the person who should be there to protect you. Video evidence is making it clear that the "enemy" is all over. There are many Karens just waiting for the opportunity to show themselves. So no, you won't bound me to answer as you wish. I've made my views very clear, that this is much ado about nothing and worthy of the time given.

[StarfishSaver]

65. IKR?

Unreal. But all too real at the same time.

[betsuni]

72. Sure, Jan.

[nsd]

78. I'm not 100% sure you meant this use of "Jan" ironically, but if so, BRAVO!

Brilliant!

[betsuni]

81. Indeed I did!

I would've posted the gif but I'm too lazy to figure out how to do it so used the old-fashioned way, words.

[nsd]

83. I'll admit it took me a moment to get the reference ...

... but when I did, my reaction was: Brilliant!

Congratulations, you win the thread as far as I am concerned.

[NurseJackie]

85. Check it out: Here's an animated gif to accompany... you'll love it!

[nsd]

86. The difference is that this GIF is on point, whereas the ones you posted above were pure snark.

[NurseJackie]

88. The level of discomfort and resentment now on display reveals that my snark was "on-point" too!

The level of discomfort and resentment now on display reveals that my snark was "on-point" too!


Oh, honey! Clearly, a nerve has been struck.

[nsd]

92. You realize that character is also named Karen?

[NurseJackie]

95. What made you believe otherwise?

[betsuni]

90. Oh, thank you NJ!

A gif is worth a thousand words!

[NurseJackie]

93. Don't look now, but that's just far too many words for some, apparently.

A gif is worth a thousand words!

Don't look now, but that's just far too many words for some, apparently.



PS: You're welcome.

[gulliver]

97. Ok, that's not bad.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

76. Anything that stirs racist hatred is fine by Trumputin.

Hellraising is great, no matter who's the instigator.

[StarfishSaver]

98. Calling racist white women "Karen" stirs racist hatred?

Sorry, dear, but that car left the garage a long time ago ...

[NurseJackie]

100. Haven't you heard? They're victims too!

But... but... but... Haven't you heard? They're victims too!

When Karens are called-out on their behavior, they retreat and magically transform into poor misunderstood victims.

?t=60

Okay, I'm gonna need for people who are calling this a slur, and "racial slur" to stop! Okay? When you are a "Karen," that means you've opted-in -- and if it don't apply, let it fly!

But the fact is, if someone is labeling you "Karen," that means you've done something to warrant that label. You're not just sitting there minding your own business. And generally it means that you've stepped into something--into somebody else's business--that you have no business stepping into.

And you've made a spectacle of yourself based on some degree of privilege that you believe that you have. If that applies to you, KAREN, then that applies to you! If it doesn't apply to you, then just let it fly! Why people want to...when people are like "oh, it's the new n-word"... ARE YOU SERIOUS, KAREN?! That is a Karen! Okay?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

102. Yeah, I think it riles Hannity, Limbaugh, etc

Putin/Trump doesn't care who's riled up, just that somebody's riled up.

"Karen" videos are posted to provoke outrage, and they do. Some is "righteous" outrage, some not so much.

[StarfishSaver]

107. They're already riled up. Karen memes aren't responsible for it

And their elimination will have absolutely no effect on their "outrage."

[gollygee]

89. We need more poll options

1. Why do we care what Trump and Putin think?
2. Who cares?
3. Why is such a ridiculous poll at DU?

[tinrobot]

91. If it divides us, they like it.

[StarfishSaver]

99. How does the term "Karen" divide us?

Are you less likely to fight for equality and social justice because some random person you don't know called some racist white women you don't know a name you don't like?

If so, you weren't with us anyway, so there was nothing to divide.

[tinrobot]

111. A quick glance at this thread indicates that it is dividing people here.

[StarfishSaver]

112. The term isn't dividing anyone

Some people disagree about it, but disagreement is not division.

[Voltaire2]

108. I voted for hamberders.

[fishwax]

109. I think the complaining about the word "Karen" would make them happy

[KY_EnviroGuy]

110. Republicans encourage anything that enhances divisiveness in America....

and they or the Russians are often the originating source of such trends.......

Encouraging divisiveness is a dirt cheap way for them to retain power.

We will never see Republicans encouraging community, brotherhood, humility or love of fellow-man.